Quoted from lrosent345:Since PP made the center ramp for Who Dunnit, I've put the other 2 in my que probably after BSD.
Super news!! Many of us have been looking forward to it. Thank you very much!
(Topic ID: 235318)
Linked Games
Earthshaker
Williams, 1989-
Jokerz!
Williams, 1988
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No Fear: Dangerous Sports
Williams, 1995
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Party Zone
Bally, 1991
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Twilight Zone
Bally, 1993
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Quoted from lrosent345:Since PP made the center ramp for Who Dunnit, I've put the other 2 in my que probably after BSD.
Any chance you’d make the prototype train ramp that doesn’t drop into the pops but feed back to the right ramp?
F8CD71BA-4093-4D7C-85CB-4E23CD022E7F (resized).jpeg
Glendale, AZ
Quoted from lrosent345:Here is a list of tools where we have not been able to identify the game. Before I hunt through hundreds of tools to take pictures of them, I thought I would try this first. Can anyone cross the numbers? All help is appreciated.
Game Unknow
Game Unknow
Game Unknow 8872
Game Unknown
Game Unknown
Game Unknown
Game Unknown 03-001820
Game Unknown 03-003552
Game Unknown 03-8783
Game Unknown 8152
Game Unknown 8290
Game Unknown 8290
Game Unknown 8351 4x
Game Unknown 8378
Game Unknown 8392
Game Unknown 8405
Game Unknown 8724
Game Unknown 8770
Game Unknown 8959
Game Unknown 9139
Game Unknown 9316
---- Diner-----
03-8392 jukebox window for
03-8391 jukebox
Quoted from lrosent345:One down. Many to go. Thanks. Anyone else?
Sadly, Williams never fully documented raw part numbers...
I think some of the part numbers might be for sample/proto
games.
Quoted from vec-tor:---- Diner-----
03-8392 jukebox window for
03-8391 jukebox
Good catch Vec-tor.
Larry, these might also be Diner. Just ad #03-,
Game Unknown 8351 4x
Game Unknown 8378
Game Unknown 8392
Game Unknown 8405
Currently selling this I got at pin a go go, 6-7 years ago. I think you were at that one.
A lot of Diner parts have this sequencing of numbers.
Quoted from byurick:Just got my new Cyclone ramp set and they're awesome but having some issues getting the comet ramp to sit right. I figured out it's hitting the pop bumper cap and the only way I can get it to sit is to remove it. Am I installing it incorrectly or has anyone else had this issue? The clearance on mine seems really tight.
[quoted image]
I had the same problem. I bought a spare pop bumper cap and cut part of it off with a Dremel to make it fit. It’s not noticeable. I didn’t mind, I just figured the ramps were thicker than the originals.
Quoted from lrosent345:FYI. I'm going to do a run of the coffin cover for EATPM.
Looking forward to it! Mine is busted.
1 week later
Boisbriand, QC
1 week later
Quoted from lrosent345:One down. Many to go. Thanks. Anyone else?
Put me in for the Who Dunnit ramps please. I will be ordering the center on from PP.
Thanks,
Quoted from WeirPinball:update on corvette? Need that middle ramp asap!
[quoted image]
Nice playfield.
1 week later
Amazing how new ramps (and plastics) can take a mediocre playfield and make it look better than it is. Thanks to lrosent345 - these ramps were perfect and installed without any issues!
1F1D3AAC-1687-44E2-BB7D-DDAE0BD37018 (resized).jpeg3139B771-6E41-4ECE-8A55-F46BB83CF77D (resized).jpegC5595BCE-C315-4855-BB5D-2531A6EF12F3 (resized).jpeg 4 weeks later
There was a post in the Whitwater club mentioning the bigfoot ramp did not seat correctly, the flap was not flush with the playfield and the lamp sockets were popping out of the sockets. I thought I would post it here so other pinheads would know about the problem.
OK, here goes. This is going to be in deep detail because I think it is important to understand why I do things. First of all there is nothing wrong with the shape of the ramp. It fits fine in all three of the games we tested. The ramp was made from the original Williams mold. It has to be the same shape. Now I'm not saying TheOnlyest is wrong. There maybe something special with his game. For almost all of you, the shape will be fine. I put the new ramp in my 2 games and after a little more tork on the ramp flap screws, the flap was 1/64th of an inch off the playfield. It did not interefere with the flow of the ball. Now I expect that other games will be different from mine and here's what I expect is happening. Both of my games have been in Phoenix there whole lives. The humidity is very low. In more humid locations I would not be surprised if the edge of the plywood has expanded. The plywood is going to expand more on the edge. If this is true, every game will have a different lift of the plywood. I don't want to remove a fixed amount of plastic from the ramp cause no matter how much I remove, it won't work in all games. GOOP might work as suggested above but I do not recommend it. I have no idea what the solvents in GOOP will do to the clearcoat. I wouldn't recommend removing the plastic on the ramp either. If you goof, you will ruin the ramp. If you are skilled at using a router it would be OK. It seems to me the correct way to handle this is to take some sand paper and sand the edge down or use a router until the ramp seats properly.
The lamp cover problem of coming off is confusing. I doubt it is the socket. They are made by the same company using the same tools that were used to supply all of the sockets for Williams. It is more likely the wear on the lamp cover. If you have this problem, I would suggest a tiny amount of hot glue because it can easily be removed if necessary. I tested ten new lens covers and they clicked into place just fine.
Quoted from lrosent345:The ramps are almost done but the hardware and decals have not even been started.
Any time line for Who Dunnit ramps?
Quoted from lrosent345:There was a post in the Whitwater club mentioning the bigfoot ramp did not seat correctly, the flap was not flush with the playfield and the lamp sockets were popping out of the sockets. I thought I would post it here so other pinheads would know about the problem.
OK, here goes. This is going to be in deep detail because I think it is important to understand why I do things. First of all there is nothing wrong with the shape of the ramp. It fits fine in all three of the games we tested. The ramp was made from the original Williams mold. It has to be the same shape. Now I'm not saying TheOnlyest is wrong. There maybe something special with his game. For almost all of you, the shape will be fine. I put the new ramp in my 2 games and after a little more tork on the ramp flap screws, the flap was 1/64th of an inch off the playfield. It did not interefere with the flow of the ball. Now I expect that other games will be different from mine and here's what I expect is happening. Both of my games have been in Phoenix there whole lives. The humidity is very low. In more humid locations I would not be surprised if the edge of the plywood has expanded. The plywood is going to expand more on the edge. If this is true, every game will have a different lift of the plywood. I don't want to remove a fixed amount of plastic from the ramp cause no matter how much I remove, it won't work in all games. GOOP might work as suggested above but I do not recommend it. I have no idea what the solvents in GOOP will do to the clearcoat. I wouldn't recommend removing the plastic on the ramp either. If you goof, you will ruin the ramp. If you are skilled at using a router it would be OK. It seems to me the correct way to handle this is to take some sand paper and sand the edge down or use a router until the ramp seats properly.
The lamp cover problem of coming off is confusing. I doubt it is the socket. They are made by the same company using the same tools that were used to supply all of the sockets for Williams. It is more likely the wear on the lamp cover. If you have this problem, I would suggest a tiny amount of hot glue because it can easily be removed if necessary. I tested ten new lens covers and they clicked into place just fine.
Don’t sweat him Larry. He’s one of the many turds in this cesspool here. Your stuff is great. And have used your ramps personally on my Whitewater.
I've decided to do BSD after Corvette, then /Who Dunnit,
Quoted from lrosent345:First of all there is nothing wrong with the shape of the ramp. It fits fine in all three of the games we tested. The ramp was made from the original Williams mold. It has to be the same shape.
Quoted from dmacy:He’s one of the many turds in this cesspool here.
Excuse me!? Don't call someone a turd when you don't know what you are talking about.
As I posted in the Whitewater owners thread, the ramps are not "the same".
This post describes the main issue that I am having, including pictures comparing the old ramp and the new.
As you can see, the ramp is not "the same" (and it's not due to moisture on my playfield or differences in the way my machine was built). Now, I'm not complaining about Larry's work (or the quality of the ramps), I'm just trying to figure out how to make it fit.
If they really are supposed to be the same, then maybe I got a badly formed one.
The comment wasn’t about you but the person who was mentioned.
The new ramps are thicker so they’re going to have less flex. Any new ramp is going to take some finesse.
Again, I posted this in the Whitewater club but wanted you all to see it too.
Hi everyone. I have done quite a bit of investigating the problems. I had a second white Water and put it next to the one I was working on. They are no where near the same. I found in searching that there were at least 3 different companies that made playfields. I can tell you that one of mine was made in 1992 and the other was made in 1993 by a different company. There are suttle differences in them. My bigfoot ramp fits perfectly in one of my games but not the other. It needs to be lowered at the flap entrance. It looks as though the ramps fit most but not all games.. I also know the prototypes are not the same as the production models. I reccomend using washers for the whirlpool ball stuck problem and sanding of the recess for the entrance to the suicide canyon ramp. The canyon ramp fitting is not the easiest but it does ensure the best chance for not ruining the ramp. It appears impossible for me to make ramps that willl drop in on any game. If you ruin the ramp. I might get you a better price on a replacement but I will not send you another free ramp. You always have the option of returning the ramps for a full refund. Again, if you can think of a better way to resolve this, I'm always open for suggestions.
I hope some fussing like this doesn't stop you doing what you do. With out any ramps a game is not a game. Yes it be great to be a perfect every time but as you stated different builder and runs there is going to be some differences. I just think some don't realize how lucky they have any option.
I installed one of the SF bigfoot ramps and ended up removing the flap and sanding the end of the ramp down to get it to sit flush. Wasn't a big deal. I always figure there's going to be some fitting necessary on new ramps especially because they're usually thicker than the originals.
Another thing to keep in mind is how archaic the assembly and playfield hole drilling process at the factory was and still is to this day. Factory workers lay a template on a playfield and then drill all the holes on location using drill bushings as locators. Being in the tool and die field myself, I am here to tell you...those bushings will wear over time after thousands of cycles which will allow the drill locations to drift a bit. Some holes were not even drilled using templates...they were just drilled on the dimple location, which is even worse for repeatability! Also, I am not convinced that the template always lays perfectly flat, or stays perfectly in position as they drill all the holes. Secondly, if there are multiple lines making the same game, that means multiple templates had to be made...and most were made by hand. So now you have another source of possible variance. Having to "massage" the location of a mounting point at the factory was not out of the realm of possibility. Why companies like Stern are not CNC machining screw holes in playfields in 2022 is a head scratcher for me.
Another thing to keep in mind...some ramps had to be flexed a bit to be installed at the factory. After being in a machine for 20 or 30 years, they have taken a "set" to them and conformed to their installed position. A new ramp made on original tooling will still need to be flexed into its mounting position again, just like they did in the past at the factory. Why do I know this? Because some ramps I have taken out of machines to remake now have negative geometry that would be impossible to vacuum form in their current shape. Over time, they conformed to the installed position, and the vertical faces have sloped a bit in the other direction.
Also, it was not at all uncommon to have ramp change made throughout a run as production issues were found. I have 3 different versions of the Gottlieb Spring Break ramp in my possession, and I have heard Comet had several running changes made as well. Same thing with ramp covers...most were added after the fact due to air ball issues. Early production games often did not have them.
Big ramps equal bigger headaches, and I am glad Larry has taken some of these difficult projects on...Whitewater, Party Zone and NBAFB give me heart palpitations just thinking about trying to produce them! Anyone installing a new ramp needs to go into it with the expectation of possibly having to do some massaging to make things fit together
Quoted from JodyG:Another thing to keep in mind...some ramps had to be flexed a bit to be installed at the factory.
Yes, this is the problem I had with the Bigfoot ramp. It needed to be flexed into position. Unfortunately, the new thicker ramp could not flex in the way it needed to be - while the older thinner ramp could.
The thickness is great for strength and longevity, but bad for flexibility. I had to heat-shape the ramp with a heat gun to bend it into the shape it needed. Fortunately, it came out great, but I fear that with a bit less luck I could have easily ruined the ramp.
When using the heat gun, it goes from "doesn't look like it's doing anything" to "Oh shit, it's melting!" very quickly.
I could fit most of the ramps by just shaving some plastic off of the bottom, but for me the Bigfoot ramp was more involved.
Every ramp I have ever installed needed adjustments for fit. I bet even original ramps from the factory had to be adjusted and tweaked to fit and perform correctly. It's unfortunate that ramp makers are receiving the brunt of complaints when every part of the machine is installed by hand, by people, leading to slight variances from machine to machine. If you have ever done a playfield swap then you know what I mean.
I don't mind people complaining. It almost always gives me info I can use to help others in the future.
Quoted from Scoot:Every ramp I have ever installed needed adjustments for fit. I bet even original ramps from the factory had to be adjusted and tweaked to fit and perform correctly. It's unfortunate that ramp makers are receiving the brunt of complaints when every part of the machine is installed by hand, by people, leading to slight variances from machine to machine. If you have ever done a playfield swap then you know what I mean.
Yes, and I really sort of expected this. I knew from previous discussions on the Whitewater owners thread that it was likely that I would need to shave off some ramp bottoms/corners. However, I didn't expect to need to reshape the Bigfoot ramp.
Maybe my machine has the playfield version that is most "off" (it's marked Feb 1993), maybe my particular machine is just "out of spec", or maybe I just got an unforgiving ramp itself.
In any case, I'm very happy with how it all turned out. The ramps are now fitted quite nicely, look great, and I am certain that they will hold up far better than the originals.
So, I want to thank Larry for not only providing a quality product, but also for his willingness to look into the issue I was having. Furthermore, I just wanted to make sure that other people were aware of the potential issues.
1 month later
Now available on starship-fantasy.com
Elvira and the Party Monsters coffin cover and
NBA fastbreak right ramp
Quoted from lrosent345:Now available on starship-fantasy.com
Elvira and the Party Monsters coffin cover and
NBA fastbreak right ramp
Any progress on corvette?
Quoted from lrosent345:Now available on starship-fantasy.com
Elvira and the Party Monsters coffin cover and
NBA fastbreak right ramp
Will you have these at Allentown?
Quoted from lrosent345:Not currently planning to be at Allentown this year.
Planning on York?
2 months later
You'll have to eyeball it. I really have no idea. I've only done it once and that was a long time ago.
2 weeks later
The Corvette ramps are actually done. Decals and metal are the problem and I have no idea when they will be done. I will run some more clear Space Shuttle ramps when I run the ABS ramps. It won't be anytime soon though.
Quoted from lrosent345:The Corvette ramps are actually done. Decals and metal are the problem and I have no idea when they will be done. I will run some more clear Space Shuttle ramps when I run the ABS ramps. It won't be anytime soon though.
Thanks I'll keep a lookout for an announcement.
I'd gladly pay extra not to do 50 press in rivets.
Quoted from newovad:What length rivet for the Reed Switch brackets on NBA? I'm sure I can eyeball it but would prefer to get it right on the first try. Thanks.
Did you figure this out? I just purchased the left and center ramp.
I do have a rivet kit, but i'd rather get it right on one try.
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