Quoted from idtattoo:
Email Kevin and he will get back to you. Be patient though as he does get a lot of emails.
where do I email? I can't seem to find an email address...
Also, how much do I have to put down to get on a list?
This topic is closed.
Ha. Right, I got it. Hahaha. Yes, you guys like your Lions. All I'm saying here dude, and dude, this is all I'm saying, you're making a game called Predator, based on the movie called Predator, and this guy, right next door, is known as "the Predator", and he does a Predator happy dance on national TV at least once a week (since the f-ing Packers are ALWAYS televised regardless of market), he's one of the cherry picked media sensations, he's loaded with cash and hangs out almost exclusively with other man children who are also loaded with cash. I could think of worse ways to try and ignite a pinball Renaissance (like, oh, I don't know welding your hopes to a license for a musical that... wait, nevermind) than Rachel Nichols doing a human interest piece / walkthrough of Matthews' house, and having him point out his SkitB pinball machine in "his" likeness.
Know what I mean? Fan boys see that and POW, instant pinball interest. Hell, this thing's going to cost about the same as a season ticket these days anyway!
But, OK, OK, I'll let it drop.
is this the guy you are talking about
Post edited by absocountry2 : Profanity edited
sending a second email since I did not get a reply (want to make sure I did not go to the spam folder)
Kevin, Just wanted to say I personally love what you guys are doing and I hope you never let the peanut gallery impact your overall product too much. Some input can be good but too much can be bad IMHO.
looking forward to seeing and playing at EXPO VERY much!
Congrats on all the success you guys have had thus far. It must be a great feeling to have almost all of them on preorder. It is likely a nice feeling.
I love seeing some true fans make a machine! To me it is a whole new realm to pinball design and manufacture!
Quoted from Drano:
As much as Aliens would be cool, we've already established on other threads that there would be monster appetite for a Lebowski pin, assuming the license could be had.
So much rich material and pure comedy. I think humour is seriously lacking in pinball. MM is only mildly funny and its a huge hit. I would definitely be first in line for this title and it would sit proudly next to my tron. Can't have enough of the dude.
I think it would be great if SkitB carved out a niche for adult and slightly less mainstream themes/licenses.
I am in 100% if this happens! The demand is obvious! The adult nature of skitB fits perfect. Lebowski and pinball go together like ham and eggs!
I think they plan on putting them together themselves (plus a few helpers) in small batches of 5 to 10 at a time. I think this is a GREAT idea and the correct way to go for a game like this.
Maybe we can start a poll to see if SkitB should do a poll to decide the next game
I vote yes on the poll...
No problem and I think it is a GOOD idea, but be forewarned that some may expect more input/ updates once $ are involved. Some may also start looking for more hard deadlines which as we have seen in other situations may not be a good thing...
I hope nothing changes by way of input/ updates, as I like the process somewhat organic like it has been.
you should allow pick up in MI when games are ready!
A big party!!!! or many continual small parties when batches of games are complete...
I have been thinking lots about the deposit and have come up with the following ideas.
Just my opinion...
I think there are both pros/cons to making deposits non-refundable. The deposit IMHO should act as a litmus to help people decide if they are IN or OUT so you can appropriately fill the slots with commited folks and weed out those that are on the fence. That said, if it is non-refundable I think you should probably provide some more concrete info about timeframe to completion and firm up playfield art or something else that should not be too limited by your pocketbooks. Providing more info to get those currently on the pre-order list amped up will likely help them to decide their relative level of commitment. Then again, taking a non-refundable deposit will make the peanut gallery more vocal is my guess. Basically, I would rec not taking any $ until it is absolutely needed for you to move the project forward. The longer you wait to take $, the more you will feel commited to YOUR vision rather than being swayed by your 'investors' I hope that makes sense?
A refundable deposit basically means nothing as far as truely measuring commitment from people. Many will likely 'lend you' $250 just to see it out a little longer and decide later.
Either way, all will expect a contract so they have commitment of what they are getting when investing in your ideas finacially.
I also think the $250 is a perfect amount to request so long as it will get you there. I would guess many will not be happy if you request more deposit later unless that is outlined up front. In other words, asking for what you need to make this realisitcally happen up front is going to much better for overall good vibes then coming back 3 months from now and asking for a bigger deposit.
IMHO $500 up front is better than $250 now and a suprise $250 in 4 months.
I am interested in hearing more about a nearly indestructible playfield surface! Less money and lasts forever sounds amazing to me. As always, I trust Skit-B's decisions to make this game how you see fit without cutting costs and making the best damn game you can.
The old way is not always the best way, and I trust that you guys are going to completely vet out anything new or revolutionary before making it a permanent decision for the final game.
I like this one for the multiple cross reference...
From the movie, jackpot for pinball (duh), and jackpot referring to this actual game hopefully being much more than we all could ever dream of.
"Goddamn jackpot. This is more than we ever thought we'd get"
It is not clear from the update info,
"Brand new, properly formed ramps have been installed on this machine. While they are certainly not the final designs and the fact that they are not transparent is certainly not permanent, the shot placements and angles are."
>>> are black ramps in or out for the final game?
At expo, I thought I heard that the black ramps were just an experiment and would not be in the final production but it sounds like they are still being considered.
Ok, it sounded to me like that meant they were up for discussion.
If so, I vote NO.
Does anyone else have a tough time seeing what the DMD animations are? Maybe it is just the grid lines, but I can rarely tell what the animations are?
I think it was asked before, but I do not remember the answer >>> Can we upgrade to a ColorDMD for Predator? I would happily pay more for no gridlines.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:
Well a color dmd would have to be programmed to that specific game and I'm not so sure skit-b has the resources for that.
Pretty sure the ColorDMD can be used in most B/W 90s games as a single color (like Phobe did it as Green in Congo at Expo). I was not wanting actual color coded animations, but rather just the ability to have the colorDMD in Predator and set to a single color (I would liekly pick red).
Thanks for all the answers! All of my concerns/questions have been addressed and that in itself is amazing. I appreciate very much that you guys come around to answer questions and listen to our comments.
only 1 more very important question...
When is the payment thing getting set up so I can send you $$$?
Quoted from playboywillis:
I don't think a video mode would work with this style of visuals.
You would end up with all visuals as scenes of the movie, then the video mode would be animated. Just don't think it'd fit.
I disagree. Video modes are OK as animated dots rather than movie clips IMHO.
I would love a good video mode just to give a break from the crazy intensity that the game play appears to be. You could always have an option in the seetings to turn off video mode if you wanted
I think Predator is ripe for a good video mode of some sorts.
I also hope the SkitB team has a few hidden eggs programmed in. That is something I miss from older games. I would love to see something to punk your buddies when playing multiplayer>>> your ball drains and while the score is totaling up you quickly and secretly hit a stealth flipper button combination which triggers the egg. Your buddy steps up to plunge his next ball and is mocks him or calls him out for sucking when he drains (afterall with the player monitoring feature, the game will know who is up next and how to mock them appropriately)
Just dreaming for fun here obviously.
just use the pinbal life metal protectors under the legs as soon as you get you game.
Quoted from Russo121:
Just to confirm, the deposit is $250, right? The email i got from you Kevin didnt state an amount and i have only heard that amount being talked about here. Just wanted some solid confirmation of the total required before i pay.
When you follow the email they sent, click on the link to make paypal paymnet and it will redirect for you to pay via your paypal account, and then click to pay now > it will automatically pop up with $250 in the amount field. You can then select you method of payment (debit, credit, or direct from paypal balance).
Quoted from playboywillis:
Great. Now 100 "paid" comments are coming...
You mean 250 'paid' comments, followed by a bunch of 'anyone drop out' comments, followed by lots of 'nope sorry' comments, followed by a stark contrast of elation of buyers that can now really know this is officially happening and sorrow from those that are still in waiting limbo
btw >> "Paid"
Quoted from denmark71:
By what date is the initial deposit due?
I am not 100% positive on this and I sure the SkitB guys will chime in, but I thought Dec 14th was the cutoff for the $250 deposit. I assume they will then fill in all unpaid slots with those on the wait list at that time.
wpdvideo >> I understand all of your concerns but there have been more things shown in this thread and many questions answered by the SkitB guys. If you did not make it through the whole thread then you may want to retrack before you bail completely. I had some of your exact same concerns, but felt they were quelched after reading this entire thread.
I would just hate to see an original supporter bail at this stage when this is the cheapest NIB project out there and actually a true Limited Edition by some real pinheads! Keep in mind that there is a waiting list with many people happy to take any slots that open up. SkitB has also made it clear that if you want out at a later date then you can get your deposit back if someone else takes your slot >> which it appears there is a pretty good chance of that happening. Heck there are guys already offering cash to buy out slots even before the deposit stage deadline.
If you pass, then I assume you will make someone on the waitlist very happy. Hope my comments do not pissoff any of those waiting Just would hate to see someone jumps ship this early and then regrets it later.
Dec 14th is the deadline to pay your $250 deposit to hold your edition number and production number.
It sounds to be more of a way to make sure place holders are serious and commited for the long haul. It also sounds like there is a line of folks anxiously awaiting to see if they get to take over any vacated slots.
I am pretty sure that the "deposit payment" email I got specifically mentioned the Dec 14th deadline???
I am honestly not 100% but I can check email when I get home later today if anyone needs verification.
I just went back to reread email I received and even though no specific date was mentioned via email, it seems pretty clear to me that people should have sent in a deposit if they have not already...
A few excerpts from the Nov 28th email (I assume it is no big deal to share this and also assume everyone on the list received a similar email)>>>
"As we push closer to production and our waitlist grows larger by the day, we have reached the point in the project where deposits have become necessary to continue."
"requesting a small holding deposit in the amount of $250 USD"
" If you'd like to use a credit/debit card, please let us know in your response and we will let you know as soon as it becomes available, which should be within a short matter of days"
Follow up email a few days later >>>
"Good evening, everyone. We are happy to finally let you all know that we are now set up to accept electronic deposit transfers by PayPal, credit or debit cards. If this is the route you would like to go, please follow the link at the bottom of this message"
There was no specific date mentioned in the emails, but it read very clear to me that if I wanted to stay in, I should send payment...
I agree that a mass email to everyone on the list (With the specific cutoff date) is probably a good thing, but I still think it was abundantly clear that a deposit of $250 should be sent in via check or electronic payment...
Quoted from Drano:
Have the boys been sending out any payment confirmations?
Being in Canada, I sent mine via PayPal and sent a follow up email or two. Have not heard anything.
Just want to make sure it was received.
I never got a confirmation but my paypal account shows as paid.
Happy to see the new proto ramps! I do agree that more curvature in the sharper angles at the bottom will likely increase flow and decrease breakage chances.
I have been thinking of putting something less movie quote related and more just specific to me/pinball.
Below is my standard custom message for my pins.
"It's all about the Balls!"
The quote works for pinball and other things in life. Also figured it is PC for any kids and the adults will get the joke.
I am perfectly fine that they are not responding. I have paid my deposit and hope they are busy spending most of their time working on the game.
I understand us all wanting some more info and sneak peeks, but I am happy to wait at this point.
Sure, even a response of "next update will be in X weeks/months" would be nice, but I am not too concerned.
I understand that they have a huge amount of work in front of them and many things are likely not update worthy.
pinballdad >> if you want out, now is likely the best time, as it sounds like there is a long waiting list. Email SkitB and they will surely take care of you.
I honestly was not stirring the pot. I was just pointing out that if you think you may want out, then now is likely the best time since there appear to be people waiting.
To me, this should be a very fun ride and not something to stress over. Then again, I made my own decision (before paying) that I trust the SkitB guys to do everything they say they will, plus more.
You seem stressed out about this process already and it will likely be a long ride from here on out. Nothing personal, just an observation... If you did want out, now is an easy time to do so.
We need a predator owners only thread/forum so we can take all of the info internal and not have to be derailed by the trolls.
how the heck did nobody at the snowball open shoot video of the game when they had a chance to play it?
Quoted from frolic:
I think it's been proven many times over that even lousy movies can have great pins made. I wouldn't worry at all about being a fan of the movie. We're obviously going to have something really special and unique.
Congo is a great example I prefer to think of it as an unlicensed theme since it is better if you do not think about the movie.
I still like plungers and a plunger skill shot option but a button works also.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:
I got an email from the Nigerian Prince Skit-B-Bilacca so I sent him $250 through paypal. Its all good though cause he said he has a check for $356,000 and will send it to me upon the arrival of my deposit from paypal.....
Should I be worried?
What you are insinuating is not very cool. Thumbs down.
Yeah the interwebs are not real good at denoting sarcasm. Others have said similar ideas about 'other' companies which have taken cash but are yet to deliver games...
Winkies help show sarcasm.
second game needs to be futurama or lebowski.
anything else is a huge fail IMHO.
end of discussion!
loving the continueed development of predator!
Quoted from DrStarkweather:
This idea does have some advantages. I happen to own a 25' truck in Michigan for instance (family owned trucking company), I already was planning on picking mine up and spending the weekend with my family. I could go and pick up any Chicago area people's orders all at once and save everyone shipping.
The other side of this is that it does bork the production orders, amongst other logistic concerns.
Wanna pick mine up also?
If I were to make any request for the new video, I would like to see any of the new components, boards, power supply, etc... that have been decided on at this stage. I think lots of us like this tech side of stuff and find it interesting. It would be nice to see when you are ready to share.
I am guessing/hoping that predator owners will be the first to actually know the 2nd game when that time comes and we will then be able to reserve a slot at that time if we decide we want to???
For now I am more concerned with game #1 and assume that the Skit-B guys are also.
I am so pumped to be for this ride!
Quoted from PappyBoyington:
Wow, i'm trying to keep up but all I see is a bunch chatting. Where is the new information? Pictures? Is there a web site? WHAT IS GOING ON! LOL
Chatting? >>Well... this is a forum for pinball... did you expect something else besides chatting about Predator in this thread?
New info? >>New information is even on this page of the thread. Just look up a little bit and you will see a handful of new replies from Kevin/SkitB. That is the official word on everything Predator
website? I know this is really hard so let me help you out >>> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=skitB+pinball
What is going on? >>>Besides you trolling, I am not sure. Do you have a specific question about the game? Do you have something to contribute to the conversation? Ask you question in this thread as the SkitB guys seem to be doing a great job of responding to worthwhile questions when they have time. They have also said a new video will be coming to show some updates. If you have something specific you want to see then ask and maybe they will incorporate it into the video.
Thanks for the heads up Mike.
Sorry Pappy. Sometimes humor and those sorts of things are not clear when in text on the interwebs. I assumed trolling since there was new information posted by the SkitB guys at the top of the page from your post. please excuse my smartass reply.
The below linked website is the official spot for all things Predator. Any big updates can be found there. There have been some art images and 1 of the toys shared in this thread but not much else.
You can also just look at Posts from pinside member SkitBPinball as this is the guys in charge. There is no real easy way to search for specific posts in a thread unfortunately.
I agree with others that it would be nice to have an official Thread that only houses the SkitB pinball updates.
Thanks for the update guys! Some really nice progress since the last update. Thanks also for showing the tech stuff. The new DMD is looking much better and animations are getting much smoother. I am guessing things look even better in person as a camera tends to change it all.
I think at this point I will be most excited to see the next iteration for the ramps.
The biggest thing I am really thinking at this point is Predator will be INTENSE. I love that about this game. The feel of play is going to be extremely unique.
Quoted from blondetall:
Dear Skit B-
I appreciate all the answers to questions, the honest replies about issues, and listening to our feedback. And while responding to feedback is great, please don't let all our opinions, want lists, and gripes change you from making the pin that YOU want to make. No pinball machine is ever going to make 100% of the people happy, especially when you've got 250 people drooling over just getting it. Listen to viable concerns, and otherwise do what YOU envision for the machine. You've already gone above and beyond what Stern and JJP have done as far as pleasing their customers, and with you getting down to the 'much-closer-to-finished' version, I believe you need to do your thing your way. If the main dissonance the collective owner group currently has is what sound it makes for a jackpot, I think you are light-years ahead of other companies in customer satisfaction.
PS- » YouTube video
This deserves quoting just because it is so spot on with how I also feel. Also, love the video Blondie
SkitB >> Just a reminder that when it comes to production time for components I know many of us will be interested in buying extras fo things like plastics, rmaps, and playfields.
Just something to think about. I am sure many of us would eb happy to preorder these extras if that is the only wany to ensure we can get them.
I say NO Phooglass in Predator please! Regular glass is just fine.
Phoog does not fit the SkitB mentality and he spams the forum for his product (which is not that great IMHO and not even close to PDI/Iglass) all while bashing his competitors.
Sorry Tiger, but I very much disagree with your advice on this one!
Just source some good quality regular tempered glass from MI. End users can upgrade to the real deal PDI or Invisiglass if they see the need.
IMHO, code will be 100% done upon delivery of 1st 10 games. Tweaks will likely come after the first few batches have been delivered and many more hands were able to get MANY more hours on the game. Likely nothing major, but beta testing your own game is not going to catch everything. I am guessing coding updates will be very swift as that is the heart and soul of the project from the start. JMHO of course.
I too would like a very general idea of when the current timeline for delivery will be.
It would help imensely in planning for saving and future purchases/sales.
Quoted from SkitBPinball:
Texas Pinball Festival: 3-15-2013
Michigan Pinball Expo: 4-4-2013
Rocky Mountain Expo: 4-26-2013
Allentown Pinfest: 5-3-2013
Northwest Pinball Expo: 6-6-2013
Pacific Pinball Expo: 2013
Chicago Flip-Out: 10-16-2013
Southern Pinball Festival: 2013
WHERE is MGC in THAT list ?!?!?! ;( ;(
Best pinball party in 2013.... SkitB needs to be there!
Can't you give us just a teeny tiny hint of what it may be???
.... I think he just did???
Quoted from underlord:
Discuss, great. Whine, cry, demand, or offer to throw money at them for game #2? Uhm, count me out. 8-0
just having a little fun...
The joke is distinctly Futurama in nature so it may have only been funny to me
I agree completely that I DO NOT want to hear what game number 2 is until all 250 Predators have been delivered. Keep the public focus and perception on Predator till it is 100%. Work behind the scenes on #2 and continue to feed us disinformation for fun.
Quoted from Marc:
Nope, aint gonna happen. Got an email from Kevin today saying they won't be there. Oh, I have so much I would love to write in this thread, I'm not really drinking the Skit-B koolaide anymore. I still feel Predator will be great but Skit-B REALLY needs to get there shit together as a company.
I think you REALLY need to get your shit together if anything.
Either spill the beans with what your issues are or go piss in somebody else's Cheerios. All this passive aggressive hinting towards some major issue is BS.
Either man up and specifically state what your issues all of a sudden are or admit you are just trying to troll. As of right now, most of are assuming the latter since your claims have NO DETAILS and NO Substance.
Your done? Great, so cash in your predator slot and let someone else have a chance. Maybe someone that actually knows how to provide some substance along with any critque.
I have NO issues with any opinion, but frankly right now your opinion sounds like "WHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA". If you actually have some constructive critisim then take the 2 minutes to write out a thoughtful post and share it. It is one of the things I actually like about this project... SkitB will actually read your post and likely address concerns. As of now, you have not even given them anything to address. make sense?
Predator feels very different to me from videos, studying gameplay, and the little amount I played the early proto at Expo. It is hard to explain but, it just seems unique to me. I can't really pick out any other game at this stage that is 'feels' similar to.
If you are on the fence, I would say the biggest pro about any other game it that you can just go buy it now. Predator delivery is ???? who really knows when???
Biggest pro about predator is that you get to ask questions and interact with the Skit-B team as thing progress. It is more about the journey than the final destination for me at this stage. I still love that so far I have basically ponyed up only $250 in order to help some guys in a basement (similar to me but with much more talent) follow a dream.
Yes, even the early proto I played at expo was a real deal pinball. It is not just some halfazzed attempt with a feel good story.
Similar to WOZ and the P3 games at Expo, they were protos and felt that way. However, I have no reason to think all of these protos will not be well polished when complete. Actually of the 3 protos at Expo, Predator was by far the most complete code at that time.
It sounds like the next updated should be somewhat substantial.. Can you confirm?
Also it sounds like the next update is just a few days/weeks away. Do you have a plan for when we can expect to see some new stuff? (just nice to know, as some people check this thread every time they see a new post, only to be annoyed with those of us that like to chatter on about ...) .
Fingers are crossed for you corvair, but I honestly would be suprised if 40 drop (assuming that is still the rough guess of how many are on the wait list).
That said, be prepared with cash as my best guess is that if more people do actually drop it will be when production for their actual machine starts and they need to come up with 50% of the total.
I hope to provide updates when I am at MPE. Let me know if you have specific requests and I will do my best to relay what I see on the ground
I do not have a very good video, but will do my best.
I am hoping the guys will let me look under the hood.
I will be there and not doing any voulenteering so I can actually hang and play more games than I did at MGC!
Yup, got a buddy from Chitown convinced to tag along with me so I am picking him up on the way there.
We could pick you up on the way also B. Let me know if you want to do that and I can get you our hotel info (one that is close by and was only $100 per night for 2 beds, fridge, micro, and breakfast included; can't rememebr name now but have reservation at home).
We will be coming through chicago around 12--2 on Thursday and returning after the PinBrawl is over on Saturday.
About 2 hours till i arrive at mpe. Camera is charged and ready, but forgot the cpu at home. I kniw... dumbass attack...
I have the wifes tablet so i can try to figure out how to take and post pics with it. I am going to be mighty pissed if i made the trip over and there is nothing new for me to see till sat at 5 since i will be departing before the skitB talk.
This is just printed on a sheet of posterboard. Just to show imagery. Not color grade accuracy or vibrance. Looks great in person. Clear ramps back on and plays great. Dmd images look very clean compared to when i last saw it. Anyone want to see anything else? Ill check back in later
Two things... Nobody knows the last-ability of ANY game till it has been out for a while. Also, get on the waiting list now if you think you have even a small chance of actually getting a predator. They have been sold out for a long time. It is my understanding that all deposits have been paid, and after playing it a bunch this weekend, the coding is amazing! I do not expect that many more people will drop if the physical parts hold up to the code quality... And i see no reason to not think the skitB team will deliver a very quality product. Shot layout and coding are set. DMD animations are tight. Callouts...CHECK. Things are falling in place.
Nope. Just like every other game... I don't own it till it is in my house.
The game is a prototype. I am unable to judge the full game until it is complete.
That said, I was (still am) IN because of the coding. I am assuming at this stage that SkitB will make ALL other features of the game at a similar level as the code. They are open to and readily make adjustments when the owners speak. I wish I was able to make more suggestions, but this is not my vision and I am really just along for the ride. For the most part I like what I see and am trying my best not to be overly critical just too have an impact. Other raise good/differing points already on every update and I am guessing the team has enough to filter anyway...
When playing it the shot layout was plenty satisfying to me. I am assuming there will be some more oblong targets to fill a few spots or on the sides? (like many games have). Currently the left side of the pf is still sparse (room for additions to left side of game and also in front of left most pop and left ramp post?) I did not miss any interactive toys at this time, but am also assuming that some of the other toys will be genuinely interactive when implemented and that will be nice. I do think the hanging bodies will actually be on some sort of trigger (ala martians in AFM) and what we saw at MPE was just a place holder so we could actually see the toy in person. I am also assuming there will be some sort of randomizer (magnets?) in the finished game, esp since the pops currently do very little to randomize the game (i.e. causing more drains).
I also think it plays in 'feel' like a fishtales. Fast and hard, but a WHOLE LOT OF FUN. I guess I would also say that FT plays like a slightly older game >> straight forward ruleset but tough to master/score big.
If I were to have any sort of criticism as this stage, the 2 stand up targets dead center will take a beating just based on position. They need to be reinforced and not cheap. The ones on the proto are bent all sorts of ways from the continual beating.
I am guessing "not for commercial use" is in reference to the example virtuapin cab.
the answer is then >> that is merely an example cab and if you were to purchase a virtuapin form the predator cab maker, the vpin is not for commercial use.
So are the overall cab dimensions similar to 90s era B/W
I may have missed it, but will cab art be silk screened decals that are applied to the cab?
or some of the new direct print to wood things that are happening?
Any chance of having the entire inside of the cab finished/painted to the same quality of the rest? I really hate bare mdf/plywood as it grabs dirt.
Last question. Is this made out of plywood or MDF? I personally prefer plywood for the entire thing and dislike how many cabs are mdf bottoms. I never understood the reason unless it was just for cost savings from B/W (likely the case).
Just a thought... I like that you guys are sticking to things as original as I know many respect that business style.
However, I also understand the desire to raise more capital to help with production of scale (i.e. making 250 wireforms once cost less per piece than making 50 wireforms 5 times.) Have you thought about offering an incentive or option that many people would be all for and could also raise some more capital? Something like >> pay an additional $500 now for an add on topper for your game. This may make the topper guys happy since they get a topper and also get you some cash.
Or an even better idea?? >> Pay an additional $XXX now to have the shaker pre-installed in your game. This may work really well as you would not have to buy the shakers till VERY late in the process and you could likely source them for a discount and then make a little extra cash by selling that add-on to your customers that actually want a shaker.
I prefer things to stay the same as they are/have been from when I laid down my original deposit.
That said, other seem happy to put in a bigger deposit to help things along.
It sounds like the best thing to do is OFFER a payment plan. It sounds like some would enjoy that and it even sounds like others would maybe even pay a large chunk.
I say provide a few different options for the payment plan.
1. No thanks, I will stay with the 1/2 at start of production and 1/2 at pickup agreement.
2. Yes, I would like to pay an additional $250 deposit towards my total of $4750
2. Yes, I would like to pay an additional $500 deposit towards my total of $4750
3. Yes, I would like to pay an additional $2250 deposit towards my total of $4750
As long as it is an option to pay more deposit then there should not be a backlash.
I am guessing that this will get you some more $$$ to work with from the faithful that also have the spare cash now and at the same time it will hopefully keep folks from ramping up 'demands' for dates, changes, update schedule.
I do not care about my game # for the second pin. However, what I do care about is getting first right of refusal on the second pin for production slot.
In other words... if I like the next title and want to purchase, I would like to be offered my produciton slot prior to non-predator owners being able to jump in ahead of me.
I have been in for the ride for Predator and would like a similar slot for the next (assuming the next will also be in a limited enough number that slots will sell out).
Quoted from kvan99:
I have a couple of questions: are the ramps going to have El wire? Why is there a wide shoulder on them? Second question is not reallyu question but rather a comment, with the art on the PF I think wireform would have been better; not just for longevity but it covers less art on the pf..hopefully the ramps will be more transparent and narrower, otherwise it looks very good.
from my discussions at MPE, these ramps are still just proto. On finished one corners will be rounded/smoothed flow, material will be thicker than what many games have. Production ones will be completely clear like other games. The actual mold for the production ramps was close to being done at that time.
I agree that the pallet is just a bit too harsh/ bright and clashes with the cab in overall style/feel. I actually like the lines, just the color pallet seems to have too much contrast.
I am still in as the play and coding was what sold me from day 1 and I assume that we are still just seeing another proto (pretty sure that is the first printed pf). I feel confident that the team will make it all come together as 1 cohesive piece of art that is also a blast to play.
Looking at it and trying to form a more specific opinion...
I think mostly the colors are just slight too electric if that makes sense??? I also think that the top 2/3 is pretty tight. I would like to see the overall blue hue in the pf and esp the bottom 1/3 be closer to what is in the translight. I also am thinking that things seem a bit harsh because the inserts have no art printed on them yet. It actually appears like the pf was printed and then the inserts dropped in which seems odd (maybe because proto and time crunch before show?). Either way the lack of art and text on inserts makes thing look funny.
Billy >> something to talk you off of the ledge.
We have a amazing sub community in the predator crew and this will likely be one of the most tweaked and moded games in the future which in itself will be a blast. The ruleset is great and the shot layout feels good even on the proto games with proto parts. Everything else is merely cosmetic and we will all have a blast making improvements as the 250 lucky ones actually get them in our grubby mitts.
Also, if you bow out now there is a chance you will never be able to get one in the future.
I still love the idea that for a relatively cheap amount (compared to other games) I get to be along for this ride and support some guys like me (albeit with way more skill and knowledge) as they follow a dream.
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:
I think the art is really coming together. I do hope they end up with darker shade of white on the big skull (use same white as on smaller skulls just below the inserts) and go with the same blood style/look that is currently on the left outlane on the skull. That would look great IMO. A darker shade of blue would also be a welcome change to the lower playfield.
I agree with the skull blood suggestion. Blood does NOT bead up like it is currently on the skull. I think that is what makes the current itteration so much more 'comic comic' and less 'comic gore'
You could likely drop your spot now and get your deposit back without issue if you decide to bail. I was under the impression there is still a long waiting list so somebody else would probably very excited to get on board.
Arnie > looks great
Skull > looks better but still looks very flat, needs more 3d shading. I also would prefer less comic book jello blood.
THANKS for still listening to us whackos!
The peanut gallery that is not on board likes to chime in on a regular basis so they can feel better about themselves... IMHO the reality is VERY few people are dropping off at this point. Heck, many have paid more than the required deposit already.
Wait till the game is finished (hell, we have not even seen a 'finished' prototype yet) and then your judging may actually have some validity.
Rai >> you currently have not played a production game, you have currently not even seen the production pf or art package, and you obviously have not even played a proto game. I appologize but your bashing has little validity at this stage. About the only things you can justfiably critque would be the dots and the rules as those are for all purposes done at this point. In both cases, the dots and gameplay are some of the best for ANY new game out there/coming out in the near future. Judge on the finished features if you want, but just complaining to complain will do nothing for you. Sorry, but the art is what it is and it has been CLEAR that it would be heavy keyline and 'comic' in style from early on.
Rai> provide some actual suggestion of changable things if you want to add to the discussion.
Currently, everything you have said just sounds like (reads like) bashing.
Rai> Do you have any constructive comments/critiques about things that are yet to be determined/ could still be changed? In other words, I am pretty sure that your 2 major complaints are not going to be changed and you have known this for a long time. The shot layout has been known for over a year! The pf style of art has been in progress for almost a year I think!
Rai >> JMHO, but it sounds like it is time for you to jump ship and let someone else get on board that will enjoy the ride. I respect that everyone has different opinions (and should) and I enjoy that you compose those opinions in a well thought out stance for a good discussion. From what you write, it sure seems like you would be better served putting your $$$ and time into another game. My impression is that there are still lots of waitlisters that want on this train.
Why not get off now and let someone else aboard?
I don't think you will EVER see a Predator in the wild. I can't imagine many are going on location. I know CPPinball in STL is supposed to have one on loan for a short time, but not sure if many will even be available for public play. Similar to BBB and MG and BHZA, I think many folks will be lucky to ever even play predator anywhere besides a pinball show...
I will of course be sharing mine with all the local pinheads and likely taking it to MRP2014 (assuming I have it by then).
I will say that a positive about anyone jumping ship is that I will move up to an earlier slot in the production line. I wish I had gotten on board earleir so an happy in one respect for anyone that bails
playboy said much of what I was incapable of verbalizing correctly or with better tact...
look at the top of the forum Tom >> there is a box that links directly to the 'predator updates thread'. That is a mod locked thread that is updated by the dude with just pertinent update info and no comments allowed.
What are the odds of getting an updated production order list/email? I would like to know where I fall in the current run and a general estimate of how things are progressing/ when I need to have the remainder of my $$$ ready to go.
Have the SkitB guys thought about setting up a google group/doc that is limited to be 'read only' for the 250 emails of those that are 'in'? It is logistically pretty easy to do and would be a good way to share some of the potentially more sensitive info as things progress...
Just a thought.
Obviously, just anxious for the next update >> hopefully with more info on timing.
should be 1 more toy...
hanging body (bodies) near pops
VUK skull/spine is 1 toy
Claw on left ramp diverter
The claw is 100% interactive. It comes out and grabs the ball (assuming it is used on the left ramp diverter). Do something corect as a player and the claw interacts with you.
I also feel the hanging body is interactive. My understanding is that it will be on a coil (similar idea as AFM/RFM martians?). In other words, not just a passive swaying body, but a direct player interaction >> hit something and you make the body sway.
The skull is probably the least interactive, but still has direct ball interaction.
I think you guys are crazy. These are for the most part interactive toys.
If you define interactive toys differently then your expectations are very different from mine. Even bash toys are merely something covering a switch.
Balrog = just a toy covering a standup on a pivot arm
MM Castle = just a huge toy covering up a few optos and microswitches that register a ball hit to a drawbridge or going through the door or coming in the backside of the moat.
Hulk = just a standup hidden under the hulk with a rollover bar and a coil for the arms.
I am not sure how these differ at all in degree of interaction from:
A claw that swipes a ball when a series of switches are hit
A hanging body that jiggles on a coil when a sitch or set of switches is hit.
At least these interactive toys are custom made and not McDonalds bought.
to hell with the teaser!!! GIVE ME MORE!!!
Looks like the speaker panel is updated and UV is bangin!!! Need a straight on shot of it, PLEASE
Can't see much form the video quality, but the idea looks nice. I like the color effect.
Looking forward to some better quality vid this weekend hopefully!
great interview/video!!! Thanks for recording and posting to share!
If that video does not get you pumped for the game, I am not sure you have a pulse!
The thought process behind the software and ruleset is very unique. I think the best way to describe it when people ask me is it is like a video game ruleset combined with a pinball strategy/feel/ ruleset.
I want my GAME!!!
You bring the game to the show, because you get asked and you are trying to build a company. In conjunction, many people that are currently on board deserve to see something and this may be the only chance till they get their physical production game.
I agree that like other companies that have done a similar thing of bringing proto to shows (JJP), they will get slammed for weak flips, not enough pitch, etc... However, at the end of the day realistic people will understand that no game can be judged till complete and while it may not be much fun to play with weak flips and low pitch, you can still get an 'idea' of what the future/final product holds.
IMHO, at this stage, that should be enough to present a degree of reality to what is still just a fanciful dream to those that have not seen the proto.
Like any project where buyers are helping out and get to provide suggestions along the ride, a healthy imagination grounded with some well thought out critiques of a prototype is good for the final game.
I am continually amazed at how well the SkitB team conducts themselves!
Really looking forward to the next update and hopefully a 'final' proto to play at expo in Chitown!
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:
Great post and I agree with you. Its hard for someone like me to have to live vicariously through others to see how good this pin is since I cant be at these shows in person. I try and take every comment and form an opinion but it seems since the last show Predator was at, the negativity is on the rise. Ive never attended a pinball show or played a prototype pin so the apprehension is formed from the few that get to attend and return to pinside with their reviews. So its a balancing act, on one hand we've got the skit-b boys who are selling a product and also the always positive crowd and on the other hand we have the constant nay sayers and negative nit wits and a few of the fans that have an opposing view but can still see the forest for the trees. So it has me wondering who is correct at this time.
Im still on board but 5k is still quite a bit of money that I dont part with easily and I just want a kick ass pinball machine. I dont care how much the resale value will be or where it ends up on the top 100, it just needs to be a blast to play and have plenty of replay value(my biggest worry). This game could be very fun but you end up playing it a couple weeks and lose interest. So with the limited amount of shots it has me concerned. 6 shots is very limited and im having a hard time wrapping my head around that. I guess at this point all we can do is wait and see what's in store.
All very well said.
If anything, you have probably realized by now that I don't give 2 squats about resale value (and frankly am disgusted with those that are more concerned with it than the value of their own word) and I think this is going to be a killer pin with tons of replay value, challenge, and excitement. That should count for something...
I am excited but still critical of this pin in a healthy way. I believe, but I will not be handing out more of my hard earned $$$ till I see the final product and am sure reality meets my logical expectations.
Quoted from navajas:
I am that guy! Whatchya know about nerds yo?!
However you're both wrong/right. She says two versions, "El Diablo cazador de hombres", the demon hunter of men, and, "El cazador trofeo de los hombres", the hunter of trophies made of men.
She's not a native speaker, eh what?, so it makes sense. Combine them and it's easy to get, "The Demon who Makes Trophies of Men".
thanks for clarification!
I like "El Diablo cazador de hombres" That shall be it!
Quoted from roc-noc:
I am sure I will get thumbs down for breaking the trend, but I made full payment a month ago. I respect these guys, like what they are doing, and figured that they could use some early cash to help get things right before production starts.
Been there, done that, and know what it is like at crunch time before product goes gold.
That is a huge thumbs up! If I had the cash, I would do the same thing.
I would REALLY like an update on timing estimate along with an updated production # email. Just something general for timing would be great (i.e. hope first games to g o out the door by Q42013 or Q?201?).
I am one of the guys that has limited space and limited funds. I would like to know when I can expect Predator to start moving out the door so I can better plan.
If things should start being delivered still in 2013, then I will just hold onto my current collection for a while longer and decide in a few months which of my 'keeper' games I will have to sell.
If things are planned for mid 2014, then I may opt to trade/sell a game sooner and have a year to try out something else in my collection for 8-10 months before reevaluating what gets sold prior to predator arrival.
I am assuming that we will not see a production order list ever. Many folks may consider the fact that they are even in for a Predator to be a private thing so it is not as simple as Kevin just posting his list and we can all see where we now fall. In conjunction, the entire list is something Skit-B should keep private as it is potentially fodder for the haters to glom on to and could be twisted into many different negative things.
The only right way to do it would be to send out 250 individual emails with your updated slot. Even then, without an idea of when production will start and how quickly/slowly games are made it really does no good since all I think many of us really want is a general idea of when our specirfic game could be made and we are going to need to pony up the cash.
I have NO insider info but I am going to assume the following:
1. SkitB is working VERY hard to put together a near complete "final" prototype in time for Chicago Expo.
2. The website will be back up and revamped with some new info sometime around/prior to expo
3. The first production games will get built sometime around Q4-2013/Q1-2014.
4. They will shoot to produce 10 games a week (I think this was said before by Kevin), but will likely be ~5 per week at start (my guess) and after a few production runs they will be able to get that number closer to 10 per week. This means production will take 6-12 months for all games to roll out.
5. Approximately 40 slots have dropped and backfilled in the past 9 months and there is still a sizable wait list currently. If you were further back on the production order then you may have moved up 40 slots at most. If you were further up then obviously you have moved up fewer slots. I was close to 220, so I will assume that I am near 190-200 mark now.
6. Given the math, IF production starts at the end of this year and my assumption of 5-10 per week is correct then I have a chance of seeing my game around June 2014 at earliest.
Untill I here differently on first production game that it the best I can assume for now given the things Skit-B has said in the past and things we can logically deduce from this thread.
Quoted from Pinballdad:
Funny how Whysnow and Blond (moderator) expressed the exact same request for Build order update (Blonde with a ditto") as I have. Yet...a few members chose to attack me in a singular fashion for the same comment. Shame. I can link it or you (reader) can back read as I have just done. Lol...the exact same request from whysnow and a ditto from a Pinside moderator directly afterwards...I was a couple days before with the same request that started this whole thread BS mess.
Unreal but I guess some folks live for this stuff and pick out a target as they desire at the time...such a shame.
Wait a sec... Please try not to pull me into your shitstorm and veiled threats.
Quoted from Pinballdad:
Lol, if I were the type of man to push this further...I just might be in a position where I could, "one up you"... if that is really your intent on your posts (to challenge)?
I might surprise you
Not cool to make these sort of insinuations on ANY member!
If you can't realize you may have been asking for some of the same things that I and BlondeTall have asked for, but you have done so in an ENTIRELY different way.
Back on topic, I just got an email back from Kevin regarding SkitB stuff (not-Predator related) and they are alive and doing fine.
Quoted from badbilly27:
OMG what a train wreck of a thread. Can a mod close this one down and start a new one that just covers updates. While the gifs are entertaining I'll never get back 2 hours it took to read this.
there is a whole other 'locked' thread that has just the updates.
The Dude unlocks and updates it with pertinent info and then relocks.
It is at the top ^^^ http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-updates
If anyone is a SkitB fan and debating on coming to MRP2013...
This just in!!!
Skit-B has offered up a prize for Madrollinpinball 2013 of immortalizing a winner into Game #2 in some small portion of the artwork. Stipulation that the winner must be 18+ years old (due to the adult nature of game #2) and is signing off to use their likeness to skit-B upon winning.
These guys rock!!!!
I am SO looking forward to expo to hopefully see a nearly complete iteration of the game!!!
I will only be there on Thursday and Friday so I really hope Skit-B will be there at that time!
meh. When it is here it is here.
I only come here for the pony pics and hot chicks.
I was just chatting with Kevin about MRP stuff and how excited the winner was for the prize they donated (likeness commemorated in game #2).
I was able to get out of him that the next iteration of Predator (the final iteration?) will in fact be at expo and it sounds like they are just busy busting their hump on game related things to have stuff ready in 1 month.
This is a BIG reason I am even going to expo this year!
no speculation needed. It has been made abundantly clear that Expo will reveal a bunch (I personally think we are going to see the final iteration of the game; final art, plastics finally installed, hopefully with full power on everything and playing like it would in our very own homes).
Basically, I think expo will be the opportunity for all folks on the reserve list to make a final decision.
I plan to shoot some video and take plenty of pictures on Friday. I am far from a pro and do not have the best gear, but I will do my best. That is all I can promise.
I am specifically bringing my CPU just so I can shoot some stuff and upload ASAP for those that can not go.
My fingers are still crossed that SkitB guys will post a nice vid prior to expo.
I will not be there till late on thursday, but plan to upload at bedtime (assuming internet connection is good at hotel).
Sorry i didnt take time to post when i got here. No predator. I am very disappointed. Better be here on friday before i have to leave!!!
Just got some time to upload some pics. Game was not on when I was there (VERY disappointed!, but that is how shit goes with WIP) and issues were apparently due to some new hardware (plasma display???) causing the need to edit some config prompts for the code.
I asked lots of questions and got lots of answers but too tired to type more now.
-hanging body paint will match skull/vertebrate
-IMHO vertebrate looks like crap since it is now shifted to the side instead of over the VUK wireform. It appears that VUK is taller and hence spinal cord needed to be twisted to side in order to fit under glass. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED which would probably mean Matt needs to make a new spinal cord for in the game (side note> the topper add-on/extra I assume? big spinal cord looks really cool!)
-Plastics are much better in person than in pics. They are a bit cartoony but work for the most part.
-Cab and cab art looks AMAZING in person! WOW. Red trim> WOW. New plasma display (I got to see some animations while Kevin was going through code updates >> WOW
-Ramps look muck better but since I did not get to play it I can't really evaluate them.
OK, a little refreshed after a nights sleep at home so I can provide some more thoughts.
This is just my OPINION. I will try to be clear with things I was told vs my own thoughts.
I am still really bummed that the game was not on and available for play last night (I had to leave at 10 so maybe they got it going by midnight). A large part of the reason I traveled to expo on Thursday and got a room was because I wanted to play predator.
I was told that they had a personal thing come up (IMHO >none of our business, but nice to know they had a reason) and it is just bad timing >> that is why they were still tweaking some code things at game time. A handful of other proc coders were helping out and brainstorming to help out which is a really cool micro-community that is within the larger pinball world (all though a little cut throat since they are also competitive).
I cut them slack for not having the game on, but THEY NEED TO WORK ON COMMUNICATION! A simple post to this thread say "hey guys just a heads up that we had a family issue and the game will not show up till Friday evening and we are frantically working out some bugs so it may not be playable" would have gone a long way for me personally.
I was told that what I see is what I will get for 90% of what is shown in current state. There are a few small differences for final pf art like black outlines in some spots and insert font? plus a few other small things. They have completed 'proof of concept' for the UV layer thing and it does work. The game they had at expo does not have the full UV effect in place but they said it does work really well on current pf versions not in games.
The cabinet is simply amazing. There is not much to say about it but it looks great and the red armor really looks great also. My only small thing is looking at the front of the game I can see the word "Predator" 3 times. Once on front panel, once on pf backboard, and once on translite. No big deal but I see a mod in my future for a new pf backboard decal (fire in the forest background?). Everything about the cab POPS and I actually think it ties in the pf artwork really well as the color pallet is perfect and complements the pallet in the game.
The new plasma DMD is great! No more stupid squares of dots. Animations look really nice and this is a HUGE positive for me. I was unable to catch and photos of animations as they were quickly flashing on screen while Kevin was test code tweaks.
The plastics look nice but as I said a bit cartoony. Without the game lit up and playing it was hard to get a real appreciation for them but I thing they added the needed depth of field and 'feel' of a forest. Colors on the plastics are very bright and vibrant. Black slings are just place holders for now. Final ones will have Arnold and predator I think.
Ramps are MUCH improved. The ramps are now tighter and higher pitched which should give more flow of the ball on return. The walls of the ramps are shorter and I like this. The ramps are made out of a thinker material and hence are slightly cloudy but not sure if these represent final design and final finish.
Matt's toys all look simply AMAZING. If the vertebrate can be redesigned to go over the VUK like originally intended then that would be best. If not then I will rip it out of my game as it looks silly twisted off to the side. The claw diverter looks very nice installed. I am under the impression that the hanging body bracket stuff is not final (you can see that wires and crap are just strung up in that area). Matt confirmed that the hanging body color will match skull when complete.
Code does not need to be talked about. It has not changed I assume and it has also been great from pretty much day 1.
Current summary. For $4750 this is an amazing game and I feel fortunate to be in on the list. I think anyone jumping ship at this point is just silly. I feel fully confident that the team has the ability to bring this product to a polished completion and produce the games. I have no idea on timing but my gut tells me that early orders may see a game late this year or early next year and that things will hit a few bumps after the first 20 go out (since those people will be final beta testers per say) and production will pick up after that stage.
If anyone has any specific questions of my opinion on things I saw just ask me. I spent about 2 hours evaluating and hanging out watching Kevin work on stuff. I know it sounds lame but I find it interesting to just see behind the wall of what he was working on and was already burnt out on playing pinball since I had been playing from 8am-7pm already.
Quoted from MagicMako:
There was talk of adding something at the back of the game that would show how many times you've hit each shot, essentially your progress towards the 'Killing Spree' mode (I believe its called), any word on anything like that?
I did not see anything like that since i was unable to play but I think the code shows that in status update when holding the flipper??? I think it has been like that for a while?
Would LOVE some gameplay video and review of how it 'feels' now that it is up and running.
Please >> extensive video of both the pf and the dots when someone is playing for a while!
I just got report from expo that Predator is still not working.
Don't kill the messenger, just reporting what was told to me by someone on site. I am not happy to hear this.
Here is what I was told by an unbiased friend>>>
"Nothing about it is good news at this point. The ramps rejected almost every shot, and then if you did make a ramp it would fly off the side. None of the vuks worked, he kept pulling the balls out of them with a magnet on a stick. The centers targets were getting destroyed in a hurry by direct hits. Embarrassingly bad."
Kevin >> Looking forward to the big reveal from home base and lots of pictures to dispell the UV coat stuff. I feel for you guys and am sorry for your loss this past week.
Bakuspam >> I hope Kevin is able to put you in your place because I am rooting for them.
On the topic of all your ustreaming >>I know many people liked your video taping because it kept them up to date on expo, but stuff like this is pretty shady and I doubt the viewing public knows how you were going about it. I saw numerous times where you were videotaping and talking to people while holding your phone up videotaping and recording them without their knowledge. I suggest announcing to people FIRST and asking if you can 'interview them' before just doing it.