Quoted from Whysnow:
is this the guy you are talking about
Yea, the Eagles got his brother who must have been adopted because he can't play at all.
This topic is closed.
Kevin, have you got in contact with Arnold? He may do an interview or something, he got some ties to pinball and has some time on his hands now.
does anyone think Arnold is unaware of this pin?
I know he may care less, and that this is unknown in the majority of the world outside of this forum, but would you not assume Arnold is somehow told about this type of activity not for any action but just because he is so prominent in the movie.
Could you post a group pic and a list of who does what?
I understand this is a 1-2 year process. Take your good time, the anticipation or buildup is a good thing.
Keep up the video updates, they are like watching 'Clerks'. I like you guys joking around as much as the actual gameplay video.
I have other pins to play and may have to sell one to make room so I don't mind a delay.
On a related note, I saw a Gary Stern interview where he explaining why a pinball machine cost $5K he said it costs roughly $750K to $1million to design a machine.
I know this was a nebulous catch all figure, I wonder how this jives with small manufacturers such as yourself. I realize it is not the same process but the end product is the same.
Any word on the t-shirts I sent a $25 donation like you said.
No email either #197
Just got my email #197 was sent to junk on hotmail. I placed it in my inbox so hopefully it will not happen again. Is there some way for me to mark this as not junk mail in the future?
I just went with the most quoted "If it bleeds, we can kill it"
Figure if I ever sell it down the road the new owner might not want my name on the pin or something like "You're one ugly mother fucker"
I was looking for some playfield art or toys even a doodle of what the toys would be, would be helpful since I have no idea now.
Way I see it, $250 is not an excessive amount of money. Likely three things can happen.
1) you get the game whenever and keep it because its so good
2) you decide to drop out before delivery and get the money back or not (lesson learned) its just $250
3) you get the game and don't like it and resell it for some money just like people do with any other pinball machine can make or lose money but will be able to own and play the game for a time.
My main concern is that this could be a turkey or a basket case of problems. But, as you still pay most of the money before it is built if I have major concerns I have to cross that bridge later in the future once the full production pin is being made. I have a lot of faith in this design team, it seems as if they really know what a real pinball machine should look and play like. I don't think they are going to build a horrible machine. It may be rough around the edges in some areas but I think it will play very good.
Is it just me, or did the first game video 'beta' way back seem more interesting and fun?
I don't know if it was the angle or the lighting effect or the black ramps, but the latest video made the game seem somewhat 'meh' to me.
Quoted from Drano:
My only struggle now is what to put on my plaque
I was going to do some movie quote or something, but after talking with Kevin about how this will be the first game ever sold by SkitB, we figured it might be nice to come up with something a little more special... no pressure
Anyway, I'm stumped. Anyone have any cool suggestions?
Quote from The Big Lebowski:
"If you will it, it is no dream"
just because someone paid a small token of a deposit, is no reason to start pissing all over this thread.
I am thankful of all we have seen so far and we will see something when it's time. If Kevin doesn't want to say that, I just assume it. If you want out I'm sure you can get your money back.
I would like to see something but no biggie. I can wait a couple days or a couple months. No need to rush anything guys. The anticipation is sometimes the best part. I mean when I was a kid waiting for Santa was so hard, but the waiting paid off when Christmas morning finally came.
My point is if Kevin wanted to post something he would, he knows how to post video and pics. What is nagging going to accomplish? I guess this small deposit thing has set some people off.
Quoted from Pinballdad:
RAI...what do you mean by, "...basket case of problems" I think the code wil be great! What are you referring to?
Like for example if something doesn't work or breaks such as some people have with XM LE aux board issue, or if it turns out to play poorly.
i am not saying it will be a basket case, Just that it could be. My prime example of this is the movie Godfather 3 which had the same great director and writer and great cast as the first two. But GF3 was not a good movie, it just didn't work, it was a basket case. Same with Indiana Jones 4. Or the Titanic (the ship not the movie), some things don't work and we don't know until we have the final product in the water so to speak.
Quoted from Mojojedi:
That is cool ! Would be neat to use it on the game
Oh, I never thought of that, real stealth technology probably exceedingly expensive at this time, however there could be some cool mirror reflection effect that can cause an empty space to appear in front of a real object or a reflection to appear like a real object, but I have no idea how that would work.
Kevin, since we paid real money can you look into stealth technology for the predator? I'd gladly pay some extra if you can work stealth technology into the game.
WoZ is quite beautiful and colorful, great for a pin, nothing wrong with WoZ artwork.
Kevin (and team)
I would like to say thanks for taking the time to post as much as you do. I am not the biggest fan of the movie Predator. At first, I was only slightly interested in Predator pin. However, the reason, I am so excited about Predator Pinball, is your posting and the videos and the team you have and the way you let it be know that you read what we have to say and are willing to let us in on the creation of the pin so to speak.
I think it's funny, not making fun of you, but I get an email from you and it's like 30 days after my email. I almost forgot what I was asking about. That adds to the charm. Many years from now when we talk about this, one of your quirks will be, "Kevin actually answers his email, maybe six months later but he answers his emails".
Keep up the great work.
Quoted from herbertbsharp:
That's how I know I'm getting a machine from the right makers!
Great attention to detail. This is also why I am looking forward to buying from Kevin.
I have an XM and on the current code, when you start a hero mode no matter who it is, it has Wolverene voice call out. Like you start Ice Man and instead of Ice Man call out it will have Wolverene call out something like "watch it bub" it's so bad it's horrible. I can not know how a major pinball manufacture would allow a code like this to pass in the first place. But to not do something about it immediately is a disgrace.
I was curious about the player controlled post. When is that active and how is it controlled? Also, you said something about a skill shot. Are you able to say what that is?
I think maybe the barrel should be thicker. I know it's not an exact reproduction art but it does stand out as looking odd in the artwork.
Kevin, I was wondering if you could categorize Predator pin will it be a long ball time game such as people say LotR or SM or will it be a type you could play quick hits like a short 5 minute game but still have made some progress like Tron?
A game like Tron you can have half the insets lit in a minute if you make some clutch shots.
One thing, while I'm fine with the retro or old school look or feel to the pin, it would fit with the theme of a retro theme from the 80s with old school weapons and helicopters and such but the predator had alien weapons and camoflage that are futuristic spaceman technology. So the theme would be great to have a futureistic element alongside 1980/90s type pinball frame.
Kevin, If it's not too much trouble, could you take a pic of the prototype with the clear ramps attached. I don't know if it's because of the lighting or the angle of the video and the black ramps in the latter video, but I can not get a feel for what the game will look like.
Something like this pic with ramps and side targets attached. Also how does the hole on the right side work, is it similar to the arcade hole on Tron? I just noticed a second hole further up on the right side on the inner loop is that on the playing game as well?
Funny thing about this movie and it seems Arnold movies in general. It seems to have sunk into the consciousness of America. I was in Disney world and overheard a young kid who was around 15 years old say in the classic Arnold accent "Get to the Choppa"
Predator was out before this kid was alive much like Casablanca or The Godfather was out before my time but there are classic quotes that will be known forever.
I'm not trying to say Predator is a classic movie like those other but thst some quotes have almost become classic to a greater extent than I would have guessed possible.
I'm curious how the ramp diverter is triggered. Is it active only during some modes? I watched the video a couple of times, Kevin said there was a trigger switch but I didn't understand why it diverted the ball sometimes and not others.
Could someone who has studied the gameplay, rules or even played the proto machine please give me an idea of what it relates to? In other words would you compare Predator to a game like AFM, T2, Tron , IM, SM, LotR? Any of the above none of the above?
What I'm trying to get at is at $5K price tag what other games are in consideration or would be similar?
To add on to my prior post for example I'd say Predator seems to bring new ideas to the game with unlockable rules as you progress, nice player log on for stat tracker, also small production run is high in favor of Predator.
Quoted from Whysnow:
Predator feels very different to me from videos, studying gameplay, and the little amount I played the early proto at Expo. It is hard to explain but, it just seems unique to me. I can't really pick out any other game at this stage that is 'feels' similar to.
If you are on the fence, I would say the biggest pro about any other game it that you can just go buy it now. Predator delivery is ???? who really knows when???
Biggest pro about Predator is that you get to ask questions and interact with the Skit-B team as thing progress. It is more about the journey than the final destination for me at this stage. I still love that so far I have basically ponyed up only $250 in order to help some guys in a basement (similar to me but with much more talent) follow a dream.
I understand helping a little guy and getting a behind the scene look is great. As you have played it I know just the prototype but did have a real pinball feel. I mean a real manufactured product as opposed to just a great feel good effort that would still cut it on its own playing merits like if there was no behind the scene story but just the pin itself does it feel like a real honest to goodness machine?
I'd like to relate to the movie Rocky where the little guy upstart fighter going against the world champ. It was a great story but in real life more likely the champ would murder a two bit fighter. But Rocky was more than meets the eye or could be judged by his fight record. Or lack or resume in the case of Skit-B.
Quoted from navajas:
Personally I'm confused by the placement of that body, but whatever, I'll wait to find out what's up before thinking too much about it.
I'm confused also, said there was going to be interactive toys. I don't really see how the toys are going to be interactive.
No one post anything until there is real info, that way we will know by the new post count.
Starting .... Now!
I agree the worms do not go with a bloody skill, it's not a skull dug up from the ground or else there would not be blood. One or the other not both. I think loose the worms.
Quoted from frolic:
those toys are awesome, but they really conflict with the cartoony playfield.
Dunno, I know people are clamoring for hand-drawn but I wonder if a photoshop job using movie elements might have worked better in this particular case.
Nice realistic elements but don't exactly fit with the overly cartoonish art.
Quoted from kvan99:
if the pf was more like the art on the cab it would have meshed better with the dark theme..bit again.as it as been repeated let's wait for the whole package.
I agree, just seems like two different styles from the backglass, cabinet vibe does not go with the playfields at least just looking at the playfield by itself, it might be much better when inside the cabinet.
Something about the characters does not sit well with me, I call it cartoonish or whatever. I understand Arnold's body is ripped but no one has lines like is on his chest area which just seem un-natural. Having definition to a muscle is one thing, but this is like a chricature In fact, all the guys seem characture-ish.
Quoted from Whysnow:
I put at least 20 games on it over the weekend. I was not sold till I finally got this amount of time on it. Now I am really happy I got in and put down my deposit quite a while ago.
I was curious about this, game play wise.
Some people have said this game looks like BSD (but without any magent trick). I was curious, there seems to be Zero interactive toys. I know some might call the hanging bodies or the skull 'toys', but to me, they are what I would call non-interactive figures or art (such as the skull in T2). I don't see any toys that actually interacts with the ball, I mean like a drop target or drop bank target or a magnet or a spinning disc, a claw, a cannon or whatever.
I'm not trying to put the game down, maybe it is super cool. I'm just trying to ask, since I usually see modern game with some type of magnet (or whatnot spinning disk in Tron etc.) does this game feel like it's missing something by being more of just a straightforward shooting pin (more like a pin from the 80s such as a system 11 pin)?
edit, I have never played much of older type pins, I mean mostly from T2 onward. Just looking at the above mock-up, seems like pretty much just the 2 stand up targets and the 2 ramps and the loops and drop hole are all the up the field shots.
I really love the guys from Skit-B they have a lot of enthusiasm, you can tell. I just am curious if two stand-up targets, is that really enough? Just curious, for people who have played it do you think there is enough 'wow' to the game?
I don't want to sound critical in any way, just trying to get some more feel for the game if people have played it could they give some details?
It's is a good point, I own Tron and don't feel like it has too many shots, don't feel like they are crowded on top of each other. Here is what I can recall from Tron maybe someone can contrast that to Predator.
Tron main shots:
Side shot ramp third flipper
Third flipper Gem shot
Center drop bank of targets
spinning disc behind drop bank
Right orbit through the pops
Skill shot far right of Arcade (not flipper shot)
Secondary shots :
TRON target bank 4 shots
ZEUS targets 4 shots
Roll over outlines CLU 3 (not flipper shot)
Looks like 17 shots off the flippers counting all targets, not sure about Predator but could be less than 9 shots.
Would it be possible to give us an overview of the rules? Such as what the inserts keep track of, multiball modes, stacking options etc...?
Kevin, just curious what the inserts below the characters are for, are they going to have any notation or illustrations on them?
Kevin, really glad you are taking feedback. I don't want to sound as if I am putting down the artwork. It looks very good. But if I was to say anything, as others have said the shape of Arnold's sholders are both off a little, maybe his right side is too small and his left side is too big. I understand his perspective is that his left side is facing us so it's slightly closer and thus maybe bigger. But to me it's over sized on the left, like he's a hunchback(shoulder).
My other main area that I don't like is that his pecks (chest) is very over lined (like a washboard). I understand that this can be shown in body builders (low body fat so the muscle fibers are seen) but to me it's not really normal especially in a more natural stance (I mean he's not flexing his muscles or lifting weights.) I think his chest area should be more smooth.
Here is a more natural pic of a chest (a muscular chest).
I agree, that Dillon does not look like Carl Weathers (looks like John Amos) and agree his left cheek looks funny. I also noticed his eyes are crossed. I mean his right eye is looking at his nose and his left eye is looking straight ahead.
Quoted from mr-zed:
About Arnolds muscle and chest area, I also feel that it looks a bit cartoonish with all that lines! Somehow that area stands out!
Actually I think it would look better with Arnold wearing more armo clothes, like the other characters! like in this pic.
I agree with this!
Oh, I see how it is. Half-naked chicks are ok, but you want to put clothes on the muscled-up sweaty men... lol. I do agree that he has a lot of lines on the chest, whereas Arnold usually has 'boobs.' See Ted's flex gif.
(boob talk off)
I love the skull/spine combo. I think you guys are doing an awesome job. And I'm super excited about my pony.
Did you hear? Skit-B pin 2 is going to be Magic Mike..
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Reservoir Dogs : "are you gonna bark all day little dog, or are you gonna bite?"
"I don't tip"
"you shoot me in a dream, you better wake up and apologize."
Overall, I'm still looking to see what this game will look like, rules, lights etc...
I believe that the early prototype video showd a lot of promise, but I'm still not seeing anything as complete as even Stern has shown with Metallica. (ie. a populated playfield with art).
There is no way I'm paying for this game in advance on the strength of the early art on an unpopulated PF.
Plus, I'd still like to know the rules. The rules are said to be revolutionary or at least one of the selling points, but I have no idea what they are or why they are different or better than other games.
I'd love to go to Allentown, unfortunately I can't. I have other things going on. Allentown or another pinball show would be ideal. Perfect world stuff.
If we can not come to the game, we need to rely on updates here, and preliminary rules could be told. Look at the Nemo thread, now with a summary of the rules, modes, goals of the game.
I am just pointing out that some people say they have no problem with pre-paying and that's fine. I am just saying for me, I'm not really feeling that can't miss vibe yet. Plan on seeing the real deal (or at least real life art and populated playfield pics) before I pay for it.
Quoted from playboywillis:
Took a year but fully saved. Going to need to see a vid and some people's opinions on the final build before I can go all in here, though.
And Rai, I think most of the modes and rules were complete in that November vid. Just missing a few of the intricasies like how hunt stacks with modes, and small things like that backhanded right flipper shot from the last vid.
What I mean is, I'm not sure there's that much more to "get."
I'm more of a reading guy, I mean watching a video is different that a written overview or rules. For example, lets say CFTBL was a game I own, the rules were something like this: goal is to spell KISS. Each letter K I S S is awarded (thus and such....). spell kiss to get two ball multiball to find 'the girl' which is found in thus and such a way.
I am not trying to beat a dead horse and Kevin does not have to respond, it was just a request not a demand or anything. I was just saying I'd like to see rules in a written form, as well as what type of strategy such as stacking is different or what might set these rules apart from any other game on the market.
if someone here understand the rules from watching the videos and would like to list them that would be appreciated.
we have seen MET finished art, cab, playfield, and toys on the playfield. On Predator we have not seen anything close to a finished art (on a playfield) with toys on a playfield. What will the art look like with flippers and slingshot plastic?
we have seen MET as a finished product, what people will see when they open the MET box is what has been shown in the Stern pics. I can't even recall if the Predator cab has changed one bit from day one when Arnold's head was cut out by the start button.
Quoted from molspin:
Sounds to me like you *might* be a little more concerned about what the masses are going to think vs. what you personally think?
not exactly. Just saying it's a lot of cabbage. So far it has not 'bit me' so that *I* think it's a slam dunk. Just me. I don't want to start anything. Just playing the devils advocate (it looks good, but I have to see more).
Just wanted to observe, not trying to bash the game, Kevin and everyone have done a super job....
My observation is that at least 50-100 will opt out of the actual game.
This does not mean Predator will be a bad game, or that it won't sell out. But they have 250 preorders and 50-100 on the wait list, i think most on the wait list will get a shot at buying the game.
(please note: Kevin I am not trying to dis the game, just speaking from what I think as a prospective buyer)
Playfield art : just 'ok' all I can say, it's not something anyone would look at and say 'wow that's super cool'. I was expecting something action packed or dark, and less cartoony or comic book. I mean this is just a lineup of characters from the movie. I more prefer if there was just Arnold and Predator facing off to the death but much more detail, like a Frazetta painting for example. I am not suggesting this PF art is wrong or that you should change it but just saying I'd like anything else but what has been shown. It's not a natural pose like you have on the backglass just like a bunch of guys posing for a staged picture.
Shot layout: you can say all you want that it's a simple layout and that all extra targets are extraneous or just filler. But, but, but.... I have to disagree.
Look at AFM where people say to has a similar simple layout, but it has at least a half a dozen more targets, it has a drop bank of targets and a shot mechanism behind the drop targets. Just think, Predator has 2 loops, 2 ramps, 2 hole targets and 2 standup targets (8 things to hit). There are no stand up targets anywhere else on the PF. Some might not care, but we are talking about what do we have to buy?
We could buy pro Metallica, IM, SM, Star Trek, Tron (etc) just for example. I know price of these games may be more but not all that much. Then you have games like AFM or LE version of Star Trek or Metallica which true are more money, I agree. But come on, it's not like Predator is really a cheap game. Shipping in probably like $5k some people could easily throw another $2-3k on top if they really wanted an AFM or Metallica or Star Trek LE or premium or Hobbit.
My point about extra target shots, some might say they are superficial or just not needed so why not cut them out?
To me, it looks like the designers were going for the simplest or most easy game to design, like a game from the 80s.
I count shots on Tron or PotC or AFM and they all have something like 8-9 major shots but they also have another 7,8,9 other things you could actually shoot at. PotC has two side loops the ball can go up or down those and which have targets on the exposed surface so just there you have 2 loops and 2 targets and that's 4 shots on just the bottom 20% of the PF where on Predator you have just one shot.
For example Metallica has fuel standup targets which you need to hit from time to time to keep your fuel level up. Easily Predator could have AMMO targets used to reload your guns, something in this idea, where you have a meter that shows you are getting low on ammo and need to hit the target. Or could have a grenade or mine target somewhere that blows up and scores some miscellaneous points.
IRon Man has a similar layout to Predator but in addition has a Whiplash magnet, Iron Monger toy and magnet and other magnet kick back toy(War Machine?). Plus 7 side targets you can hit. Tron pin has the same thing, I know Tron is a 3 flipper game but there is so many loops and ramps and targets all over Tron it really is something special how much is packed into a standard body game. It feels wide open and flows but has tons of stand up targets to hit.
Sorry, my post is so long, again I am not talking trash, or hurt anyones feelings. I love the Skit-B team and I am on the list, but if Star Trek turns out to be as loved as AcDc for example or as loved as SM or IM or if Stern reruns a batch of IM or if it looks like the Hobbit is going to be better than LOTR or whatever. It's possible that people could look at Predator as a game with 8 shots only, so-so PF art, and see that it's a choice between Predator or Star Trek or Iron Man or Tron straight up similar costs games.
The main things going for Predator are: limited numbers (this is good but not the main reason I'd buy a game), neat cool rules and labor of love attention to detail you don't get from Stern.
As much as I dislike Stern they have made some great 'home run' type games from time to time, Tron is my ruler to measure other games. I mean whenever I play any game I say to myself is this game as good as Tron? Would I pay $5k for Tron? Yes Would I pay $5k for Iron Man? maybe. Would I pay $5k for Predator? I don't know.
Now some people may dislike Tron, that's just *my* example, I love Tron not *everyone* does. This is subjective just my touchstone. (Tron, CFTBL, TZ these are what I am looking for in a game or better). Was Tron super-cheap with its peg legs? Yes. Was Tron super cheap with its dollar store arcade toy? Yes it was. But a few hundred dollars fixed that.
Again, sorry if I am not 1000% on board, I bet the production game will be different/better than the prototype game. I just like to throw a little dissension bomb into the room just for discussion. I could very well end up the biggest supporter of Predator. I am just throwing some things out there now that I think may cause some people on order to drop off when the real money is due.
This is my point. I wanted real ART with all cap letters. The PF art is ok really lower case ok. I wanted Giger art or tone, Todd McFarlane cover art. I don't want page 12 comic book art.
Frank Frazetta, Gieger etc. etc.. Art you could hang on your wall. This PF art is just page 12 comic art, not cover art IMO.
I'd not call what I said bashing the game. Does the prototype have just 8 shots? No ancillary shots at all?
Is the PF art what it will be?
Just asking, or giving my opinion to let people on the wait list know that there may be some people who will drop out. IMO
I love the team making the game. Just having a discussion, I know we are only supposed to talk about ponies or rainbows or puppies etc.. Or how awesome the game is. But I'm just trying to add a little bit of counterpoint if that's allowed.
I just saw PF art two months ago (shouldergate)
My point, this was supposed to be a project where the buyers had some input. Not just say this shoulder is too fat. I would have thought there would be some pre-input such as "here are some possible art styles what do you think?"
We were shown a PF art done deal.
Kevin likes to say BSD is a great game etc.. However I don't think BSD is known save for the Mist MB. I would have liked to see a real interactive toy (magnet, drop target bank etc..). There was never any poll or any brainstorming from the owners. Yes we were shown work in progress or behind the scenes but no real input was asked or taken.
I don't want to really turn this into about me. In a way I am talking it out. See if other people agree or not. I see I'm not completely alone in my feelings.
I am on the fence between this game or IM or (whatever) I have to buy one or the other. I think it's valid to question. Also, just if I go a different way does not mean Predator is bad. Just that there are more than just a few great games and I can't own every game I'd like.
Thanks Kevin for your reply.
I really was not trying to disrespect the game.
I am on the poorer scale of player, meaning I might just scratch the surface of rules or the nuances, a player like me may be more into eye candy or toys, magnet tricks etc.. However it is nice that the rules would be better for when I can work up to being a better player.
The way you break down the layout and rational of Predator make more sense to me now.
I am not sure I grasp the subtleties of the rules but it does make sense that a game is more than just about the number of shots.
I was just trying to shake up this sleepy thread. Not to bash Predator but more to see if I was alone in not being overwelmed yet.
I have not met Kevin but feel I know him from email and his posts here. I know he would not have his feeling hurt.
I have sold games like CFTBL, STTNG, TOTAN, T2 etc.. not because I didn't like them but because I can only have x many games. I have not owned LOTR or AFM or MM etc.. but that does not mean they are bad.
Predator has to stand up to those games and others that are being released now or soon.
I was just pointing out, Predator will be out in the next six months or so and speculation Star Trek will be also. I think both could be desired by the same group of buyers. But if I prefer or buy another game that does not necessarly mean that Predator is bad.
Actually, I hope they take a good long time, I like to read a lot of posts about people getting worked up, like Woz and such. It's fun to read about.
Me personally I could wait a long time, the movie is what like 25 years old, two governors and the director of IM3.
Pinball machines have long shelf life, I mean T2 is old but I'd still love to play it, AcDc was big when I was little and I'm not a young man.
So, take your good long time, don't stress about doing this on a short timeframe, think big picture. We don't want another Strern rush job, not that Stern is bad, but all of us could have been on Metalica or Avengers etc.. But I don't mind waiting as long as it takes to make a quality game.
I can not believe anyone would drop out over any delay and over a $250 deposit...
There has to be some concern about the product itself, meaning saw it or played it and didn't like what they saw.
I mean, if people thought it was going to be as good or better than say Tron or Metallica or like a more advanced Bsd or scaled down AFM pin or what not why would anyone drop out knowing they can see the finished product and decide to buy or not, where as dropping out may be final in that if it somehow is say as good/better than Tron you may not get a good deal on it or any deal at at reasonable price.
But if people think it will be a turkey they won't care can drop out and never own it or expect XM LE type deals after they are released.
I believe there will be more people drop off for various reasons, change of interest, other pins getting released, change of disposable income or space etc...
I'd like a new progress video, it's been quite some time since the last one.
I have been underwhelmed since the PF art has been revealed, but that skull looks f-en cool.
Quoted from frolic:
Skull is awesome. I wish the playfield art was consistent with the pieces. The game feels like it has a split personality.
Yes, PF looks silly, compared to the realistic skull, I would hope they reconsider the PF and maybe do away with the whole cast and focus on I don't know what? Maybe the Predator with H Geiger inspired realistic art.
Quoted from mr-zed:
Probably the meanest looking thing ever to be put in a pinball....
I like it!
I am still not sure about Predator will reserve judgment until I see the final machine.
But just an observation how come Stern thinks it's ok to put a cheap toy like the Enterprise ship and only on the premium or LE, take it out of the pro? What does that cost them around $5 per toy? I mean not even that looks like a happy meal toy that ship.
Then we have this skull and spine from Predator. It shows that Stern is really pinching pennies every way possible and that Skit-B is putting it all in the machine. This tells me a lot.
I was referring to the enterprise toy that is not on the pro version of ST.
The little ship by the shooter lane had to be removed by Stern to save what $5 or so?
It's a bit ridiculous on a $4500 pin that Stern removes what amounts to a Xmas tree ornament.
I might actually think ST may be the better pin, but some things like removing a decorative toy like the Enterprise make me not like Stern for their obvious cheapness.
Quoted from flashburn:
I agree completely. All together there is just no cohesiveness. It looks like everything was designed separately and then just "mashed" together.
The playfield art is just too cartoony compared to the rest of the art package. Not to mention that horrible bleached white skull with jelly on it. I'll still withhold final judgement, but I'm not too thrilled so far. Hopefully it plays great and the final package looks a bit more refined.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:
This doesn't sound good. I had such high hopes for this game. I may have to jump ship. No backlight is a bummer also.
Anyone think this is getting to be a tough sell now after ST pro same price, or MMR basically will be taking $8,000,000 off the table?
Still probably a sell out, but I am having deep reservations based on the looks basically the artwork, IMO should have been more Predator or such dark H.Geiger inspired instead of a lineup of charactures / cartoons.
No actual interactive toys or magnets, no ancillary things to shoot at.
My view, this was not anything the prospective owners were involved in. There was no asking us or a poll saying which type of art do we prefer or do we prefer a stripped down shot map or a target rich pin? Basically to was done as is with no asking any questions of what we prospective owners like or dislike.
thanks for the video, is the refresh line something we will see or is that just because it's on video? That refresh line looks horrible.
I can't see shit of the UV paint.
Quoted from flashburn:
Negatives:- GI lighting is flat out terrible. The whites are so bright, it completely washes out all of the plastics colors. The center of the playfield is way too dark. Hopefully there will be some spotlights added (although they weren't mentioned). Obviously you want to play this game in the dark for the UV effect, but when the UV isn't on, the playfield shouldn't be so damn dark.- It worries me that this is being called a release candidate, because a lot of it still looks pieced together. I'll withhold judgement on this until the final build is done though.- Seems like the jam covered skull is here to stay, that's disappointing.
I'd like to suggest something that's probably too late, but how about ramp exit's like Mousin' Around? Where basically the ball doesn't slow down at all at the exit, it would make this fast paced game even faster. No clue why this isn't used more often.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with what I see, but not enough to go all in yet.
Agree on everything you said.
I know this is a homemade pin, damn great job at that!
But it seems disjointed, I mean the code and the DMD, sound effects are really, really good, lots of great stuff there, good to have high quality speakers and back glass lighting which are unknown at this price point from Stern. So I don't want to sound all negative.
But there is something missing, it could be a simple thing like improved GI light and better UV effect (which you say it will have better UV effects).
I can not tell from the video, but this game needs to be made so that it will play in a low light room. You have to consider if when it's not in a blackout mode, can we see anything without ambient light? The entire middle of the PF is unlighted from what I can see.
I think it's a solid game especially for a homemade game (I mean the software, dots sound music.. seem to be professional, and probably better than most Stern games) but just seems to be Yin and Yang meaning a very polished and professional software and code package (sound and dots are A1+) but the playfield, lack of targets or modern features like a magnet make it seem straight from the early 90s (T2 era). I suppose that's the concept, like if this game was released when the movie was out it would look like this, I mean the art layout and low(no) toys. But to me it's a nice game, but not something that is transcendent. It seems as if you took a Taxi shell and re did the rules to make It a modern game. I know that it's getting near final, but possible some tweaks to the GI lighting and maybe the ramp return so there less or no slow down to the return. I couldn't tell from your video but the shark club video had the ball swirl a lot before they exit the ramp holes. That is a buzz kill for me.
Thanks for all the work you guys have put in. You guys are fantastic.
I don't want to sound like I'm a nag but just want to point out a thing or two that could be looked at or improved before it goes gold.
It does seem as if the inserts writing is hard to make out. Not sure if that's due to the video quality or the font used or what. But I'd like to hear what you say about that and if you have a picture of the inserts.
I love the claw mechanism.
Where can we find the old videos?
Kevin could you please repost the older videos?
Also, I am curious how many multiball modes are there, can up you list them and number of balls?
Kevin thanks for giving us such a detailed overview, sounds great, what does 'HUD' mean?
Also, how does the post blocker work, and what reason would we use it? I mean it blocks a loop what reason would we desire that? Is the post down or up by default? I can never quite understand this? Two extra flipper buttons used for the post? Is the post used for skill or super skill shot?
By the way, I think you could still post the old videos, even tho older design, there was a lot of info I wanted to review. And the dramatization sequences and the banter are really really funny.
Please reconsider post older videos with a disclaimer saying not the final version.
I feel like I'm reading an eye chart, what is the 4th insert?
Do you feel like the type is clear enough? I know it's a crappy picture but in a darkened room will it be more clear?
The second insert says RUNAWAY or RUN AWAY??
Kevin, have you considered the pros and cons of having the bodies activated via a popper mechanism or swing arm mech? As opposed to contacting with the ball path?
Not sure if this is a hypothetical or imaginary concern, but as you noted, some weird things occur in pinball that might occur once in a blue moon and are not a problem, but then on the other hand if something could potentially happen it can happen more than you think.
What I was thinking was having interference effect or reject a ramp shot or having the swinging body get hung up on the ramp causing us to have to open the machine to clear it.
Additionally a swing arm mech could add more visual pop to the bodies, as they are not in view all the time, but swing out during certain modes.
As a side note, the claw mech is really neat, I mean it's hidden but then it snaps out. I know the bodies are more bulky but if they could be obscured under foliage plastic and swing out during the game it would be a neat trick.
One thing I have always lamented was the lack of toys, by this I don't mean decoration like the skull or UV paint, but moving objects like Mick on a stick or swinging bell from AcDc as an example.
I can not understand why anyone would pay in full. That makes no sense whatsoever, I could maybe understand if there was a nice $750 discount, or even free shipping, but short of that..no way.
Quoted from MagicMako:
Sorry if this was addressed already, but i dont believe it was.
Will each login profile be able to have its own software settings? or will software settings be independent of user profiles? This came up today while my wife and I were playing pinball today, it would be cool if we could play a 2 player game where we each had the settings adjusted to match our skill level so to speak, like maybe player 1 would have no ball save, but player 2 would, is something like this going to be possible?
Great ideas.. Like to find out if this is possible as well.
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:
I'd rather it have a coil that would kick and swing the body when the ramp is hit. I think you would get a better effect that way but unfortunately I don't think that is in Skit-B's plans.
Yes, actually swing the bodies not pop up and down like some people have suggested.
Ohhhh the suspense, it's morning where I am, can't wait.
I'd like to hear about the swinging body? What if it was on a swing arm so that it was not in view all time? Not sure how this would work, but was thinking it would have more impact if it's not in sight all times. Like in those scary movies where you move a branch and a body shoohes into view.
Also, Kevin if we could get those older videos back it would be helpful, I wanted to show a friend some of the older videos and they are gone.
could we get some time table? I mean if say the production will start in 30 to 90 days and how long will it take to reach 100 or 200 games into production?
I am asking, in case we have to make plans such as buying another game or making room in a particular time frame.
Quoted from SkitBPinball:
Rai, you always seem to ask the big questions, so I hope this is a complete enough answer for you I also hope this will help the rest of you insiders understand the scheduling a little better.
Yes, good to know, I have to work on the space time aspect of this +/- MMR.
Could you fill me in on one other thing. Not having seen or played your beautiful game, I had one concern. I notice that close shoots seem to be more deadly for drains and the two standup targets are close to the flippers and near center. Is this an area to avoid or a danger shot?
Glad to hear about the bodies not being in contact with the ball that was another concern.
Hope all is well, for the new year etc..
Kevin, you said I come up with the 'big' questions. I don't know if that's code for saying I'm a big pain in the ass or what? j/k
I was thinking about this and that. But here is what I want to ask, and hope it doesn't come out wrong. If you were asked to respond to the notion that your pin looks 'home made' or 'home brew' or looks like it was made by two guys in their basement etc... In other words not said in a nice way as if to say: it's got a cool theme, but it's 'home brew...' (note I'm not saying that but just thinking what other people have said who have played it).
First, let me say I have not seen the game myself, just video and pictures. Since we were talking about JJP, lets call WoZ the exact opposite of 'home brew' more like if JJP is the Tesla (car manufacturer) of Pinball, all new components, new guts, new this new that. Raising the bar, rewriting the book whatever you want to call it.
Now on the other end of the spectrum is Skit-B and Predator with a tiny fraction of a budget compared to Woz, yet you are trying to get to the same destination. That is (to steal a phrase from Stern) 'Real Pinball'.
I have seen with computer games, you don't need a million dollars to make a great PC game. Not sure if you are into PC games but there are indie games such as 'Minecraft' or 'Super Meat Boy' which have been made on a shoe string budget and don't have the visual graphics of top development games. But these low budget games can be better than the million dollar games in many cases.
So, long way to my question right? But the question is, if you put Predator next to say T2 (say we had a supply of NIB T2 games out there) how would Predator fare next to that other Arnold movie pin? I picked T2 as an example for to me, Predator while being a 21st century game is kind of retro with the 27 year old movie, kind of retro PF artwork etc..
Or we put Predator right next to Stern Star Trek pro (just picked another 'ballpark' game due to price and relevance in the same era of production). How would we stack up Predator to ST (or MET or some other Stern game if you have played them?).
As far as Predator being less 'polished' visually than Woz or Star Trek, I am sure we agree to that. But is Predator just a quaint home brew for hard core Predator geeks? Or is it on par to games like T2 or ST or Met (for example).
As to open source, might be fun to have a comic version of the rules, call it blooper or gag reel rules.
Not to say it should be a pin, but if you like dark humor watch "Dr Strangelove" .
Quoted from idtattoo:
Facebook Photo says first game on completed unit. I suspect we will have an update soon
image.jpg 33 KB
I like the lighting what I can see of it, and that it's being played in a dark room, which is how I like to play. Hopefully the lights will be superior.
Can't wait for the video.
Quoted from kaneda:
these guys have been nothing but transparent with the build, but now that we are at the finish line, it's all radio silence...what gives? Show the game! Share a video. You have 250 people spending $5,000...you could show them what they are getting before they commit. This whole buy on blind faith thing is really annoying and is killing this hobby.
Relax, I want a video as much as the next guy. But Kevin owes us nothing. He collected a small deposit to hold our place in the project, that's it. It will happen, we will see the pics and videos when they are ready. Bitching about it doesn't make it better.
I hope Kevin and everyone involved is satisfied and the project is a success and the company thrives etc.. But this is building a pinball that while not by a professional manufacturer is striving to be on par with Stern (etc..).
There is more to this job than we can understand, they are not just building a one off machine for their own enjoyment, they are trying to make it a smooth, polished product. The last thing I want to do is to pressure them or ask for a rush job. I'd gladly wait another year if that's what it take's.
Quoted from kaneda:
I agree. Just would love a video of the machine they are saying is final. That's all. Not too much to ask.
I agree, that this radio silence is odd, even a word from Kevin would be nice to hear. Just hi we are still alive, here's a better picture would be nice.
I just think, this project is more difficult that expected. Making a prototype is one thing, making a gold proof machine is another thing all together.
It's not like a piece of software that can be patched with future updates, I am sure Kevin is trying to cross every T and dot every i.
Likely there is a reason for the silence, most likely they are working very hard 'crunch time' as they say.
This topic is closed.
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