(Topic ID: 26628)

New Predator Info Thread


By SkitBPinball

7 years ago



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#3401 6 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

Lighting will be LED but if you prefer it not to be they can put in regular bulbs upon request.

Cool. That's what I thought. I'm in for all LED'd out!

#3402 6 years ago
Quoted from T-800:

When I think of my favorite genres of pinball machines and my favorite games the stand up targets are almost irrelevant in most cases and are usually something I seldom aim for such as MM (the troll targets are the only ones I usually end up having to try for, even then they usually just get hit enough during a mulitball), IJ (Williams) the POA targets are again usually just from slop with the three drop targets front and center pretty similar to Predator, TZ - other than the clock, the greed targets again are usually just hit from slop and usually not a specific shot.

Yeah this was my original conclusion. I love Madness to death, and when my son pointed out that it had a fairly similar layout to Predator (orbit, two ramps, catapult kickout mirror, scoop at side of right ramp, dangerous center standups, etc...) I washed away my concerns. But, not immune to peer pressure, many other people bringing it up, and recently playing a lot of games that seem packed, has that thought sneakng up on my again.

I mean, Madness has the Merlin and Troll targets, but those are things the ball slops into when you miss. Does a game need those kind of stand up (fuck up ) targets? Troll bombs are cool and all, but?

#3403 6 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I'm in for all LED'd out!

Me too! LED me up, baby!

#3404 6 years ago

When is estimated to go into production? What will be the ballpark price? Played it at MPE, saw the artwork, I want one!

#3405 6 years ago

Estimated? Bah!...it's done when it's done. (let's not fall into the WOZ Trap)
You want one...put your name in and get in line. It's still possible...
#55

#3406 6 years ago

Production starting June (maybe), $4750, better get on the wait list

#3407 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Estimated? Bah!...it's done when it's done. (let's not fall into the WOZ Trap)

Agreed about not falling into the trap, but it is good to have some general idea of when we may be seeing this machine. A lot of us have space issues and may pass on a machine if we think Predator will be done this year but we may go ahead and pick up that machine if we think we are more than a year away on Predator.

I fall into the group above. I'd like to buy the RFM in Lafayette that is up for sale right now but have space issues so I am not picking it up. If Predator was more than a year away though I would go ahead and buy the RFM and then sell it 9 months from now to free up the space.

So knowing this game may go into production in June has helped me make the decision to pass on the RFM, because it isn't worth the hassle for two or three months of play time, but if it was a year away I would buy and play the RFM in the interim.

#3408 6 years ago

(I'm out of space and money, and keep looking anyway. I believe that I may have just increased the collection again today. Thanks pin-crazy parents!)

So with the video saying they have a faciltiy to make them now, does that mean that they'll be able to produce more faster? I think it was originally like 10/2 weeks, so just trying to guestimate time also.

#3409 6 years ago

I would be VERY happy if they are ready by Christmas.

#3410 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

I would be VERY happy if they are ready by Christmas.

Same for me. And I am (was) on the last 1/3 so I should have ample warning.
Need to save some $$!

In the meantime, Nemo should be there!

So guess... Nemo vs Predator launch party in 2013 or 2014?

#3411 6 years ago

I would agree that a set of stand-ups or drop targets on the left would be nice, but I'm pretty sure this project is way past adding anything major like that at this point, that would require tweaking the code, the playfield art, ordering the hardware, testing, etc.

I would also agree with Ted in that we should in NO WAY get caught up in specific dates and time frames for release, it'll happen when it happens.

#3412 6 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Agreed about not falling into the trap, but it is good to have some general idea of when we may be seeing this machine. A lot of us have space issues and may pass on a machine if we think Predator will be done this year but we may go ahead and pick up that machine if we think we are more than a year away on Predator.
I fall into the group above. I'd like to buy the RFM in Lafayette that is up for sale right now but have space issues so I am not picking it up. If Predator was more than a year away though I would go ahead and buy the RFM and then sell it 9 months from now to free up the space.
So knowing this game may go into production in June has helped me make the decision to pass on the RFM, because it isn't worth the hassle for two or three months of play time, but if it was a year away I would buy and play the RFM in the interim.

I know that feeling............I sold my TOM about a year and a half too soon while I was waiting for my WOZ (I needed room). And I did not benefit from the leap in price that I could have, had I hung on to it longer.

#3413 6 years ago

Please keep us posted on how Nemo is...

#3414 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Please keep us posted on how Nemo is...

Another new pin with a fantastic art package.

#3415 6 years ago

Yes! I wonder how the play is?

#3416 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yes! I wonder how the play is?

Can't tell right now. I played a prototype last September in Madrid. Nemo was as gorgeous as it seems on pictures - perhaps even better -, but the rules were at a very early development stage (single player, no multiball, no lane change, most of the video modes not implemented at that time). Since then, Antonio has worked a lot on these rules. He released beautiful images (snapshots) of video modes.

Production has been delayed because of Playfield wood problems. Now solved. In contrast to Predator, I was among the firsts to join, so I hope to get mine relatively soon. Will post pictures and videos ASAP!

#3417 6 years ago

Different angle of the skull from Amanda K on FB.

pred.jpg

#3418 6 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

so I hope to get mine relatively soon.

Before Christmas?

#3419 6 years ago

Dear Santa...

I'd like a new multimeter, a big bag of LED lights, a pony, and Predator #207.

Love,
Blondetall

#3422 6 years ago

It would be better that way. Then I can start saving money again on Predator (don't want to hijack the thread!)

#3423 6 years ago

No hijack...we're just taking a Predator Break waiting for new news...

#3424 6 years ago

Are the Blue and Green lamps at the top of the playfield and Red lamps at the bottom all GI?
When do the UV lamps kick in, I guess during a certain mode the GI turns off and you have UV lamps on?

I'm wondering if its going to bright enough to see the playfield art?

#3425 6 years ago
Quoted from Tweedlefuzz:

Different angle of the skull from Amanda K on FB.

It would be sweet if the eyes light up red when the ball drops outta the mouth.. At least it looks like the VUK sends the ball up and then down the habbitrail right under the skull and spine.

#3426 6 years ago
Quoted from T-800:

It would be sweet if the eyes light up red when the ball drops outta the mouth

Looks like someone here has a terminator fetish: This is a dead dude, not a robot, man!

#3427 6 years ago
Quoted from navajas:

Looks like someone here has a terminator fetish: This is a dead dude, not a robot, man!

LOL. I was thinking the same thing.

#3428 6 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Are the Blue and Green lamps at the top of the playfield and Red lamps at the bottom all GI?
When do the UV lamps kick in, I guess during a certain mode the GI turns off and you have UV lamps on?
I'm wondering if its going to bright enough to see the playfield art?

Hunt mode and tracking mode. Check out their videos!

#3429 6 years ago

New video game(with 80s flavor) starring Michael Biehn is coming out and it starts with a Predator reference.

#3430 6 years ago

Kevin,

Would it be possible to give us an overview of the rules? Such as what the inserts keep track of, multiball modes, stacking options etc...?

#3431 6 years ago

Need a Bowen tutorial ASAP! Would love to watch that.

#3432 6 years ago

Ok, guys, we're back from Expo and I kinda took a day off to catch my breath. Was a fantastic show and I got a chance to meet a bunch of people and talk a lot of pinball. Big shout out to PinballDad for coming out to chat and TweedleFuzz, even though we didn't get a chance to talk much, for showing up at the exact right time to see Matt and I installing toys and throw some pictures up for everyone. I can't exactly respond to everything that's been posted here since I took off on Tuesday (when I left, this thread was on page 57!), but I'll do my best to touch on some concerns and observations.

Quoted from TigerLaw:

Small shot count games can be fun. Look at Doctor Who, as an example. The playfield layout to Predator looks a lot like BSD, which is a pretty awesome game. I'm not concerned about this game lacking shots.
Check out their video where they go through shots and show some you can hit with back hands from a half craddle, they are thinking about shots very carefully.

Yes, we are. Of all of my concerns about how people are going to receive this game, shot count is not one of them, whatsoever. If you look at a few of the shots, you'll see they've got a bit of a "different" angle, specifically the VUK and the left ramp. These shots are angled this way to make backhanding them part of the intended shot path. This way, you always have safe flow from either flipper to either flipper. Left flipper can either go up right ramp to land on the right flipper, or you can backhand the left ramp to get another shot from the left flipper at-speed. From the right, you can either left ramp to get it to the other side or you can backhand the VUK for, you guessed it, another shot from the right flipper at-speed.

On a side note, let's not talk about BSD right now. I just sold mine at Expo this weekend and I'm already sincerely regretting it...

Quoted from T-800:

I had a chance to play the crap outta Predator last fall at the Michigan Expo. If I had to compare it to a modern machine, I'd say it's actually a lot like a "mirrored" Terminator 2 pin just with a heck of a lot deeper ruleset.

This was something of a happy accident. The majority of the design inspiration came from a few different games, but they weren't Terminator or BSD, actually. For the true "inspiration-games" that influenced Predator design the most, you'll have to look back to some System11 stuff. The fact that no one has nailed it yet at least suggests that I've done my job fairly well Once we had it assembled and flipping, a friend of mine pointed out that it kinda feels like a T2, and I just said "Cool, that's kind of appropriate" and we left it at that. T2 is one of the best designs out there to date, and it's just neat that it's another Arnold pin.

Quoted from T-800:

Predator has the two right in the middle that you need to be careful hitting or you run the risk of some serious SDTM action

That's right. The two stand-ups on Predator are used for lighting locks, so they are super important, but you have to be really ready for some ball-saving if you're going to contest with them. It's a risk vs reward thing. Predator has been designed to reward good shots with controlled returns, but if you're looking for a solid score, you're going to have to battle with those center targets at some point or another.

Quoted from navajas:

I mean, Madness has the Merlin and Troll targets, but those are things the ball slops into when you miss. Does a game need those kind of stand up (fuck up ) targets? Troll bombs are cool and all, but?

Exactly my thoughts. Every shot on Predator is worth something and builds towards something else. During development of the shot map, targets were considered all over the place, but in the end, we were struggling to find a use for them, so they were just scrapped.

Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

From what they have said I doubt any magnets will be going in the game. That is one of my concerns as well that left side seems pretty bare and the only randomizers appear to be the two targets. I guess how the two ejects kick the ball into the pops may provide some unexpected gameplay but I'm also wondering if that is enough.

We knew the game needed SOME "randomizers" (I like that term, btw), so we controlled them as best as we could. The targets in the center are the biggest, yet most imperative to gameplay, as they light the locks, and then there are the pops, of course. The pops on this game have been as isolated as possible while still maintaining their position at center stage. It was EXTREMELY hard for me to have the pops there at all, considering the game starts by launching the ball into them, and both locks throw the ball right back into them. The answer to this was the position of their potential exits, which limits the different ways the ball can come out. You might be put into a ball save situation because of the pops on Predator, but they are placed in such a way that throwing the ball STDM or right out the sides is extremely rare. Somewhat related, this is why I said "no toy bashing" either. Pardon my language straight away, but I f*ckin HATE being punished for making a shot in a pinball game. Targets are one thing, as they've been a risk since the inception of pinball itself, but too many new games are coming out now that are very dependent on their randomizers. Tron is pretty good about it, but the disc at the top middle is a monstrous oversight, if you ask me, and it is hugely important to the play of the game. Then they make you hit it like 90 times to get the mode started. The target bank is a risk to begin with, but the centrifuge behind it is a gigantic STDM liability and is too important to ignore. Transformers is probably the worst example, as Megatron, Optimus and Bumblebee are (arguably) the three most important shots on the whole machine, and they are ALL a huge drain risk. Megatron fires directly at your right sling, which needs no further explanation, Bumblebee is a dead-stop captive ball that never has a safe return to anything, and once Optimus is able to be bashed, you get all kinds of wild, unpredictable ball action. Couple this with the amount of times these shots need to be hit, and you end up with a game that is unplayable, in my eyes, at a tournament level. /soapbox

Quoted from rai:

Would it be possible to give us an overview of the rules? Such as what the inserts keep track of, multiball modes, stacking options etc...?

I'm working on adding a players' guide to the game onto the website, that will be up before the game ships. Until then, if there's any questions you have, I'd love to go over them here to clear anything up.

#3433 6 years ago

Welcome back!!
Is there going to be any art that shows the Predator without the helmet??

#3434 6 years ago

Thanks again for the update.

I did see a topper from some photos that were posted....Is that the plan at this point or yet to be decided?

#3435 6 years ago

I'm looking forward to Allentown. Maybe we will see the latest prototype they have been working on.

#3436 6 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

Maybe we will see the latest prototype they have been working on.

#3437 6 years ago

Kevin, just curious what the inserts below the characters are for, are they going to have any notation or illustrations on them?

#3438 6 years ago

Is there going to be any art that shows the Predator without the helmet??

We're working on doing something cool with that. No promises, but it is looking promising

I did see a topper from some photos that were posted....Is that the plan at this point or yet to be decided?

GrueLurks posted about this a few pages ago. It is a pretty intense topper, for sure. Won't come with the game stock, but the creator said he would make one for whoever wanted one. No idea on price. I can get more info, if you'd like. I know I will be ordering one for mine, though. BackAlleyMatt is also working on something that's not quite a topper, but incredibly cool, as well.

I'm looking forward to Allentown. Maybe we will see the latest prototype they have been working on.

Man, I hope so. It will definitely be a feat to pull off, but right now it's looking about 50/50 either way. Can't wait to get back to Allentown to hang out with all of you guys again!

Kevin, just curious what the inserts below the characters are for, are they going to have any notation or illustrations on them?

Yes, most inserts will have notations on them for what they indicate. Some are either too dynamic or self-explanatory, but the ones on the HUD will definitely have some notes. I've made a crude pic here to denote what they are.

hud.jpg

19
#3439 6 years ago

Here's a full size scan view of the preliminary artwork. Not to the extreme res that we need, of course, but it is large enough for those of you who weren't at expo to get a nice look at. You can see a lot of it is sort of "patch-worked" on there, which obviously won't be on the final product.

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6101/1303049canonprint.jpg

Adjustments are happening very quickly. I woke up to this on my phone this morning:

V_5180.jpg

#3440 6 years ago

hell yha!

#3441 6 years ago

Wow nice playfield image! You can really see the detail better in this one. Thanks, looks terrific!

#3442 6 years ago

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6101/1303049canonprint.jpg
Adjustments are happening very quickly. I woke up to this on my phone this morning:

If you overlay the new skull on the old red one, its a marked improvement! Well done!
I hope this was the intent for the new artwork ... here is what it could look like.

New_Skull_and_Predator.jpg

#3443 6 years ago

Yeah, that looks MUCH better.

#3444 6 years ago

Hell yeah, you guys continue to impress!

#3445 6 years ago

The red skull wasnt bad but the new skull totally rocks! Love the extra detail.

#3447 6 years ago

Ohhh yeah!!!!

#3448 6 years ago

HUGE Skull improvement !

#3449 6 years ago

Great reply Kevin! I know that the fact that most if not all shot of the shots can be backhanded, and are meant to be backhanded, sold me on the layout a long time ago. When I think of games with side targets, they are never an actual target to me unless it's the only thing standing between me and a wizard mode. Most of the time, you'll hit them by accident anyway, basically making them useless. Monster Bash's Dracula and T3's RPG come to mind.

Great point on being punished for making a shot which is a way I've never really looked at it. Again, MB comes to mind. The one I used to play shot the ball SDTM from the hole practically every time.

Skull looks awesome, wristguard looks awesome (I might have to customize mine with some pictures or maybe predator speak (yautjanese?)).

Keep up the awesome work guys! I'm hoping I might be able to make it up and check it out this summer.

#3450 6 years ago

Is there going to be any art that shows the Predator without the helmet??

We're working on doing something cool with that. No promises, but it is looking promising

Hell yeah!!...and the Skull is PERFECT!!!

thumbs_up.gif

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