(Topic ID: 26628)

New Predator Info Thread


By SkitBPinball

7 years ago



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#1251 7 years ago

Does UV last forever?

#1252 7 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Does UV last forever?

Nothing lasts forever...

#1253 7 years ago

in the cold November rain

Post edited by herbertbsharp : oops, wrong lyrics... oh well ill leave 'em, you get the idea

#1254 7 years ago

is this real life?

#1255 7 years ago

Does UV last 40 years?

#1256 7 years ago
Quoted from SkitBPinball:

Just sent the emails out again. The address you're giving me seems to match the one I have on file here, but I copied/pasted the address straight out of your PM to be sure. Let me know if/when you get them. I would have just replied to your message, but it says your messaging is disabled.

No go kevin. Please try again. The last email I received was on Oct 15, 2012. It was to my dad@richand********.com address. I do not understand why it is not getting through. I have owned the domain for 13 years and have no other email issues with it. This is strange.

PBD

#1257 7 years ago

Get to da choppa!!

#1259 7 years ago

I had a chance to review the video a few more times after reading the comments. I have to say that watching the game I literally got chills at several points. It's like BSD meets AFM. Overall it is awe inspiring. Some things though...
-The pops and slings did seem a little unresponsive. The slings only fired once or twice. There was also no sound effect for slings or pops as far as I could tell.
-The skill shot beep could use a tweak. I like it ok, but... one thing that annoys me on my TFTC is when someone walks away with a ball in the shooter. You have this continuous hacking noise that just keeps going and going and it grates quickly.
-The DMD needs to be more tied into the modes. On most games the DMD has some kind of animation/special-scoring/info that is mode specific and stays up during the mode. It's also usually followed by a total score for the mode or something like that, so you know it's over and know what you got out of it.
-There are no flashers in the game. Are there any plans to include flashers?

Amazing stuff SkitB. 'Pretty sophisticated for a bunch of half ass'd mountain boys.'
Thanks for sharing so much with us and keeping us in the loop! I know where all my $ is going.

-Brian

#1260 7 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

-The pops and slings did seem a little unresponsive. The slings only fired once or twice. There was also no sound effect for slings or pops as far as I could tell.

Thanks for that. Was wondering if I was seeing things or just over sensitive since I'm working on my pops right now.

Quoted from Betelgeuse:

-The DMD needs to be more tied into the modes. On most games the DMD has some kind of animation/special-scoring/info that is mode specific and stays up during the mode. It's also usually followed by a total score for the mode or something like that, so you know it's over and know what you got out of it. -Brian

Yeah, that's a good point. That could be leading to people's mode confusion. The game is packed with modes and multis and to differentiate them with some persistent visual on the DMD would help not only inform the player but really sell how deep the game is.

EDIT: I like the look of the insert, uhm, 'stack'?, between the slings a lot. Anyone have any ideas how those are going to be demarcated? There's not much room there. I was thinking each of the yellow rectangles might be a character but there's not quite enough of them.

#1261 7 years ago

...and, oh yeah, more predator sounds!

#1262 7 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

I had a chance to review the video a few more times after reading the comments. I have to say that watching the game I literally got chills at several points. It's like BSD meets AFM. Overall it is awe inspiring. Some things though...
-The pops and slings did seem a little unresponsive. The slings only fired once or twice. There was also no sound effect for slings or pops as far as I could tell.
-The skill shot beep could use a tweak. I like it ok, but... one thing that annoys me on my TFTC is when someone walks away with a ball in the shooter. You have this continuous hacking noise that just keeps going and going and it grates quickly.
-The DMD needs to be more tied into the modes. On most games the DMD has some kind of animation/special-scoring/info that is mode specific and stays up during the mode. It's also usually followed by a total score for the mode or something like that, so you know it's over and know what you got out of it.
-There are no flashers in the game. Are there any plans to include flashers?
Amazing stuff SkitB. 'Pretty sophisticated for a bunch of half ass'd mountain boys.'
Thanks for sharing so much with us and keeping us in the loop! I know where all my $ is going.
-Brian

He just said everything I was going to say. Some kind of DMD feedback for what you need to shoot at would be helpful, and the pops/slings seemed to be asleep or just not getting hit. Other that that it's looking great, really looking forward to seeing some art appear on the proto, clear ramps too.

#1263 7 years ago

I agree with pretty much all the critiques of the vid so far
-more visual and audio cues for the start and end of modes/multiballs
-kick outs into pops need adjusting
-sensitvity of pops/slings

I think those are the biggest points, not very much but the first one is probably the biggest job. It's really looking good tho, loved the ending. Was that the start of the mini-wiz?

#1264 7 years ago

I have to admit the more I'm watching the more I like. A thought occurred to me about having a get to the choppa mode where you collect the remaining crew to escape. I'm not sure if you guys are open to add more features but it did seem like a good idea to me. You could have a timer counting down and have to collect or hit certain shots in the allotted time and if you fail the game goes dead and drains your ball or something along those lines. The timer could be the Predators timer on his wrist. Anyway just a thought.

#1265 7 years ago
Quoted from Pinballdad:

No go kevin. Please try again. The last email I received was on Oct 15, 2012. It was to my dad@richand********.com address. I do not understand why it is not getting through. I have owned the domain for 13 years and have no other email issues with it. This is strange.
PBD

It's all good now kevin. You must have sent out my emails on a large distribution list. It went to spam. I pulled them out and all is good. Thanks for resending them. I can't wait to get this game Thanks also for all your hard work and others too on your team!

#90

#1266 7 years ago

Does anyone else have a tough time seeing what the DMD animations are? Maybe it is just the grid lines, but I can rarely tell what the animations are?

I think it was asked before, but I do not remember the answer >>> Can we upgrade to a ColorDMD for Predator? I would happily pay more for no gridlines.

#1267 7 years ago

No that's what I've always thought with the dmd animations but just assume its the quality of video there filmed with or something,sure hope so anyways.BTW really liking those predator vision shots on the dm.

#1268 7 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Does anyone else have a tough time seeing what the DMD animations are? Maybe it is just the grid lines, but I can rarely tell what the animations are?
I think it was asked before, but I do not remember the answer >>> Can we upgrade to a ColorDMD for Predator? I would happily pay more for no gridlines.

Well a color dmd would have to be programmed to that specific game and I'm not so sure skit-b has the resources for that.

#1269 7 years ago

Great sense of humor and attitude guys.....keep up the great work!

#1270 7 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Well a color dmd would have to be programmed to that specific game and I'm not so sure skit-b has the resources for that.

Pretty sure the ColorDMD can be used in most B/W 90s games as a single color (like Phobe did it as Green in Congo at Expo). I was not wanting actual color coded animations, but rather just the ability to have the colorDMD in Predator and set to a single color (I would liekly pick red).

#1271 7 years ago

Needs to be RED! BLOOD RED.

#1272 7 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Pretty sure the ColorDMD can be used in most B/W 90s games as a single color (like Phobe did it as Green in Congo at Expo). I was not wanting actual color coded animations, but rather just the ability to have the colorDMD in Predator and set to a single color (I would liekly pick red).

Well I assumed you wanted color plural. But yeah I'm sure a single color dmd would work but I don't know about upgrading through skit-b. It would be a nice way to individualize your machine.

#1273 7 years ago

Plasma displays would help a lot, I asked about them before and Kevin didn't see a reason it couldn't be an aftermarket upgrade. As it stands the grid edges and different brightnesses of the patchwork are easier for the eyes to settle on than the actual moving images, hence the problem. Only way to fix it is epic contrast (Tron did that, I don't think it's ideal because it cripples all machines to improve some), or put in a plasma.

#1274 7 years ago

I also agree about having better differences between modes, whether it be with music change or DMD intro.

If I recall talking to kevin at the expo that the DMD they are gonna use is gonna have 16 colors instead of 4 which is the one in the video. No not color DMD but more like shades of the same color. So that should help with the animations.

I also recall Kevin saying that cointakers is gonna help them with a better light for the UV.

Definitely need more Predator(clicking) noises in the game, possibly random.

#34

#1275 7 years ago
Quoted from vster23:

Definitely need more Predator(clicking) noises in the game, possibly random.

+1

#1276 7 years ago

How close to "final" is this code considered? Is it possible to have better looking DMD clips at this point? Is it possible to have more variety in music at this point?

#1277 7 years ago

I don't know how those systems work, but, couldn't the code be identical and the DMD swap fix it? I mean the signal could be being sent to handle those 16 shades or whatever, and if the hardware can't hack it it'll just put up the best match with the four it has like a crap TV on a good signal.

#1278 7 years ago

I think it's still a 2 shade DMD instead of the full 16 shade they are planning on.

I'm sure they are going to stop by over the next few days to answer our 8 million questions, lol.

#1279 7 years ago
Quoted from system11:

Only way to fix it is epic contrast

I think this is fine. To me, seeing a simplified digitized image like in Tron is cool. I'd like to see it attempted on Predator just to see if it works.

#1280 7 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How close to "final" is this code considered? Is it possible to have better looking DMD clips at this point? Is it possible to have more variety in music at this point?

I would guess not very close to final since there's still comic sans script all over the screen and there don't appear to be many custom dots.... just digitized movie clips.

However, if they're realistically two to three months out from making the first games, I would think time is tight.

#1281 7 years ago

the black ramps are not..horrible..
what about dark transparent smokey ramps that would react to the UV?
that would be sick...move over tron LE!!!

#1282 7 years ago

I can't remember which game i saw clear green ramps on but i think that would look cool on Predator..

#1283 7 years ago

My favorite ramp is the BBB one with its nice blue lights...

#1284 7 years ago

Looks like it is coming together thanks for sharing the video with us! I enjoyed the sound you have in the game very much at this stage. The ramp positioning seem to be improved with the latest playfield design.

The few things I noticed was a lack of overall light and flashers. I do realize it's a darker theme but even with a theme like TAF the lack of overall light on a stock pin always seems to piss me off while playing it. Lighting is one of the easiest things to add especially if they are LEDs I wish more attention was given to that department. Especially now since game lighting is really being taken up a notch by modern pins. .

This is such a fun project to see come about thanks for sharing the process with us. The way you all have taken and even encouraging constructive criticism really sets you apart from other pinball makers. Thanks for your approach Skit-B it is much appreciated.

#1285 7 years ago

is this real life?

...or is it just fantasy?

-The pops and slings did seem a little unresponsive. The slings only fired once or twice. There was also no sound effect for slings or pops as far as I could tell.

Just need switch-adjusting, really. We'll be sure to tweak them for the next time we do anything public. There are sound effects for them, as well, they're just hard to hear over all the physical sounds going on in the room. I think we're going to set up a direct-feed audio/video setup for the game sounds and the DMD for the next video so we can balance it a little better.

-The skill shot beep could use a tweak. I like it ok, but... one thing that annoys me on my TFTC is when someone walks away with a ball in the shooter.

If you leave the game sit, it will eventually play a little sound effect and turn the volume of the game down to zero. Doesn't change the fact that I'm not in love with the beeping, either, so it will probably be manipulated a little bit or toned down.

-The DMD needs to be more tied into the modes. On most games the DMD has some kind of animation/special-scoring/info that is mode specific and stays up during the mode.

Slowly coming together. We haven't come up with anything that we like enough to use yet, but it's in the works.

It's also usually followed by a total score for the mode or something like that, so you know it's over and know what you got out of it.

I think the only mode that will end up showing the total for the mode itself will end up being Unload (the timed 4-ball madness multiball mode) unless there is an overwhelming demand for it in the other modes. The other modes are pretty straight-forward in their scoring, I think.

-There are no flashers in the game. Are there any plans to include flashers?

Of course. The game is programmed for 8, if I recall correctly. Being perfectly honest, we haven't put much thought into those in a while due to other 'stuff' that has been more pressing.

I like the look of the insert, uhm, 'stack'?, between the slings a lot. Anyone have any ideas how those are going to be demarcated?

Check out the attached picture.

a get to the choppa mode where you collect the remaining crew to Escape.

We kinda went the other way on that one with Killing Spree. Instead of helping characters escape, you help them die. Pretty cool, huh?

Does anyone else have a tough time seeing what the DMD animations are? Maybe it is just the grid lines, but I can rarely tell what the animations are?

We hear this a lot, and it's tough to get people to go on faith, so I'm going to get a little bit technical for just a second. First of all, no, it's not a bad camera or poor lighting or something, it is the DMD that looks 'muddy.' The display we're using for this prototype is a PinLED model. PinLED's are a great replacement for older DMD games and they save a lot of heartache if you have a bad or "iffy" dmd supply board. The issue is that they are designed for those older games and they only have 4 "colors" (bright, normal, dim and off). The animations we have in here are made in 16 "colors." This means that you're essentially losing 75% of the "colors" to the next closest drive-state. It's very noticeable at all levels, to be sure, but it's most noticeable in the lower end of the "color" spectrum, where the lower colors are replaced with the "off" drive-state, essentially leaving "holes" in the animations. We're picking up our new display in about a week, and we will put up a short video (no post-production stuff, just a quick look) showing the difference in the DMD quality. While the animations, I believe, are still pretty decent in their current state, I will trust that literally four times better will be acceptable to most anyone

Well a color dmd would have to be programmed to that specific game and I'm not so sure skit-b has the resources for that.

Color DMD's aren't exactly DMD's, to be sure. They are LCD screens that have been meticulously programmed and tied in to the games they have been designed and made for. If we were going to go that far, we would have just went with a normal LCD screen and allowed for like 720p animations in 32-bit color. I can't speak for Aaron specifically, but as a player, I'm not totally sold on LCD in pinball yet, unless we're talking about something like the P^3's application. An LCD as a display is something that is going to take a long time for me to get used to.

Great sense of humor and attitude guys.....keep up the great work!

Thanks

Needs to be RED! BLOOD RED.

Most likely will be.

Plasma displays would help a lot, I asked about them before and Kevin didn't see a reason it couldn't be an aftermarket upgrade. As it stands the grid edges and different brightnesses of the patchwork are easier for the eyes to settle on than the actual moving images, hence the problem. Only way to fix it is epic contrast (Tron did that, I don't think it's ideal because it cripples all machines to improve some), or put in a plasma.

Plasma displays are power-hungry monsters and require a separate PCB to power them. That being said, all of the display animations and data are stored on the computing unit, so it would be feasibly possible to convert a Predator to use a plasma display by switching the DMD's out and adding a board that could power it without the need of ROM chips on the display board or on the DMD itself. I didn't know that Stern has tackled the gridline issue in such a way, that's very interesting. I'm not saying anything bad here, but I read "epic contrast" as "loss of definition."

I also agree about having better differences between modes, whether it be with music change or DMD intro.

The music does change, and every "mode" (being standard mode or multiball or whatnot) has a unique intro animation. It can get pretty hard to follow as more and more modes get stacked up, and the music is getting reworked into something of a priority queue. Also, there was a bug in the first video right after Killing Spree started that caused the music to reset back to the overall gameplay music (but we think we have a good idea where that came from)

If I recall talking to kevin at the expo that the DMD they are gonna use is gonna have 16 colors instead of 4 which is the one in the video.

I wish I would have seen this post before I typed out that long-winded response above, but since I already spent the time to type it out, it stays

I also recall Kevin saying that cointakers is gonna help them with a better light for the UV.

Yep.

Definitely need more Predator(clicking) noises in the game, possibly random.

Interesting idea... I wonder if it would be distracting? We'll try it out and see what happens.

I don't know how those systems work, but, couldn't the code be identical and the DMD swap fix it? I mean the signal could be being sent to handle those 16 shades or whatever, and if the hardware can't hack it it'll just put up the best match with the four it has like a crap TV on a good signal.

This is pretty much exactly what's going on.

I'm sure they are going to stop by over the next few days to answer our 8 million questions, lol.

Working on it

if they're realistically two to three months out from making the first games, I would think time is tight.

You would be right.

the black ramps are not..horrible..

Yes they are.

I can't remember which game i saw clear green ramps on but i think that would look cool on Predator..

Maybe, but I don't think we're going to play with ramp color on this one. Clear is nice and clean and doesn't get in the way of much, if anything.

Longest post ever? Maybe. Hope I answered everything you guys were hoping for.

DSC06648.JPG

#1286 7 years ago

Can we see more artwork please, Mr. Tease?

#1287 7 years ago

Love the video. I was laughing out loud in the airport!

That pic looks too cool! I was wondering what you had planned for that area... Cant wait for more updates.

Thank you again for engaging the community in they way you are. Gives me great faith in not only the project but you guys as a solid company. Cheers!

#105

(Posted from Geelong, Australia... makes me miss MI )

#1288 7 years ago

Thanks for all the answers! All of my concerns/questions have been addressed and that in itself is amazing. I appreciate very much that you guys come around to answer questions and listen to our comments.

only 1 more very important question...

When is the payment thing getting set up so I can send you $$$?

#1289 7 years ago

Thanks for the responses. Thought we were going to have to donate a new keyboard.

One question on a different area. You had talked about putting a proto in a bar in MI recently. I'm going to be in Michigan around Christmas. Any chance that'll be around so I can get my hands on this beauty? I'd be willing to trek a few extra hours for some sweet hunt kills.

#1290 7 years ago

Still curious if there is a video mode? I think there is a lot of potential for this one. Have you guys worked out a method of payment yet for the deposit?

#1291 7 years ago

See, I knew he would swing by and alleviate anyones worries.

Can you give us some percentages of how complete you feel everything is?
1. Playfield
2. Lighting
3. Rules
4. Modes
5. Music
6. Sound Effects
7. Animations

Anything else I left out?

#1292 7 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Still curious if there is a video mode? I think there is a lot of potential for this one. Have you guys worked out a method of payment yet for the deposit?

I don't think a video mode would work with this style of visuals.

You would end up with all visuals as scenes of the movie, then the video mode would be animated. Just don't think it'd fit.

#1293 7 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

I don't think a video mode would work with this style of visuals.
You would end up with all visuals as scenes of the movie, then the video mode would be animated. Just don't think it'd fit.

I disagree. Video modes are OK as animated dots rather than movie clips IMHO.

I would love a good video mode just to give a break from the crazy intensity that the game play appears to be. You could always have an option in the seetings to turn off video mode if you wanted

I think Predator is ripe for a good video mode of some sorts.

I also hope the SkitB team has a few hidden eggs programmed in. That is something I miss from older games. I would love to see something to punk your buddies when playing multiplayer>>> your ball drains and while the score is totaling up you quickly and secretly hit a stealth flipper button combination which triggers the egg. Your buddy steps up to plunge his next ball and is mocks him or calls him out for sucking when he drains (afterall with the player monitoring feature, the game will know who is up next and how to mock them appropriately)

Just dreaming for fun here obviously.

#1294 7 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

I don't think a video mode would work with this style of visuals.
You would end up with all visuals as scenes of the movie, then the video mode would be animated. Just don't think it'd fit.

You may be right although it doesn't seem to unrealistic to me. I can't think of game that has dot matrix that doesn't have a video mode(I havn't played any new Sterns). I always look forward to achieving video mode. Not a big deal for me if it doesn't have it as long as it fun and challenging to play.

#1295 7 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

I can't think of game that has dot matrix that doesn't have a video mode(I havn't played any new Sterns)

I big chunk of the Sterns.

#1296 7 years ago
Quoted from Cobra:

I can't remember which game i saw clear green ramps on but i think that would look cool on Predator..

Probably CP

#1297 7 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I disagree. Video modes are OK as animated dots rather than movie clips IMHO.

This is my point. Movie clips would look cheap in a video mode, kind of like sprites.

But switching out of the movie scene visuals to do a dot matrix video mode would look equally cheap.

#1298 7 years ago
Quoted from Tweedlefuzz:

Posted from Geelong, Australia... makes me miss MI

The forecast today for Geelong, Australia is 90 degrees and partly cloudy. You'll be fine.

Quoted from Whysnow:

When is the payment thing getting set up so I can send you $$$?

I know, this is taking WAY longer than I expected, and it's driving me nuts. You'll know something as soon as we know it.

Quoted from playboywillis:

I'm going to be in Michigan around Christmas. Any chance that'll be around so I can get my hands on this beauty?

Depends on what days you're going to be around. I'm curious to know exactly where you're going to be in Michigan that would be a couple hours away from the Detroit area.

Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Still curious if there is a video mode?

Pretty unlikely, at this point. We just never came up with anything good enough, honestly, and we agree that it kinda doesn't fit the theme so well.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I also hope the SkitB team has a few hidden eggs programmed in.

There are a few already, and I'm sure there will be a lot more going in. I'm sure more than one will involve name entry, as that is easy to do and it's quick and easy to show off to others.

Quoted from Whysnow:

your ball drains and while the score is totaling up you quickly and secretly hit a stealth flipper button combination which triggers the egg. Your buddy steps up to plunge his next ball and is mocks him or calls him out

This is an AWESOME idea! I'll look into what will work for such a thing and try to stick it in there.

#1299 7 years ago

Can you give us some percentages of how complete you feel everything is?

This deserved its own individual response, sorry for the double post.

1. Playfield

I would say high 80%, low 90%. Entrance for the right eject is going to open up a bit, exits from both ejects are moving up to more reliably hit into the pops like they're supposed to, top diverter is getting tweaked to get the feel we were looking for, maybe a few other things.

2. Lighting

It doesn't look like it, but the lighting is about 90% complete, also. Just need to light up the center of the playfield a little better, install the flashers and get the new UV assembly on there.

3. Rules

Damn near 100%. This has been our major focus for quite a while, and I hope it shows.

4. Modes

85%. Need to add background animations and maybe little instruction-type text to the openings.

5. Music

At least 95%. Only music work that is left to do is debug a couple weird issues and arrange the "hierarchy" so that modes of lower "importance" won't take over the soundtrack when they're stacked into whatever is going on.

6. Sound Effects

This is another one in the high 90's. Gotta work in a few more Predator-type sounds into the overall gameplay and a few more easter eggs in the meantime.

7. Animations

This is the lowest one, but I'll say something like 65, maybe 70 percent. Anything with the old fonts and simple styles are getting redone, obviously, and all the mode intros are getting redone, as well, to include some text on the screen to let you know what mode you're in, along with some very brief instructions where necessary.

Can we see more artwork please, Mr. Tease?

Fine, but just a little one

DSC06646.JPG

#1300 7 years ago
Quoted from SkitBPinball:

Depends on what days you're going to be around. I'm curious to know exactly where you're going to be in Michigan that would be a couple hours away from the Detroit area.

I'm flying into the D the Friday night before Christmas (Dec 21(day the world ends)) and would be there for a while on Saturday, but will be in Kalamazoo for the rest which is 2 1/2 hours away. Didn't know if that place would be close and my ride could swing me by there.

Edit: I'm not trying to come to your place of business and start that trend. I just remember you guys saying something about putting a prototype on route at one of your local bars and wanted to see if that would be going.

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