Predator
Skit-B Pinball, 2013This topic is closed.
I've been reading this thread occasionally and saw the FB page with some pics of the art. Has anyone brought up that the Predator art on the side of the head is not from the first Predator movie? It's definitely one from one of the later films. Maybe it's been brought up, maybe it's been discussed, maybe I'm wrong, maybe people don't care (I would)...
Just listened to the Pinball Expo Seminar posted on Pinball News. Heard the artwork is a laminate. Is his basically and overlay? Any chance that there will be delamination issues?
Thanks,
Carey
interesting stat, but maybe SkitBPinball can clarify before people get concerned:
Is the playfield silkscreened, direct laser jet or overlay?
Is the cabinet going to be silkscreened, direct laser jet or vinyl decals?
Quoted from swinks:Is the playfield silkscreened, direct laser jet or overlay?
We're trying out an overlay kind of process for the playfield right now. It's a pretty fancy process which makes it nearly impossible for the playfield to groove or for the art to fade or wear off. The test playfield we have here--even though there is no art on it yet--plays butter smooth and shows absolutely zero signs of grooving or peeling.
Quoted from swinks:Is the cabinet going to be silkscreened, direct laser jet or vinyl decals?
The cabinet art is applied with vinyl decals. We talked with the proprietor of a local vinyl shop here and showed him our old prototype cabinet (the one from Allentown) and voiced all of our concerns. After some lengthy explanations as to why certain things happen (peeling, fading, etc.), we were comfortable enough to let him give our newest prototype a shot and we are not disappointed in the least. We've left sun-lamps on it for a few days straight in very tight spots (like an 8 inch square on the side) and there is absolutely zero signs of fade. We've also held a hairdryer against the corners (read:problem areas) with no peeling issues. For those of you who saw the game on the Chicago Expo floor, you could see the cabinet looked as professional as any other game in the hall.
Quoted from rai:I hope you guys are good at making pinball machines because (you suck at the internet)
This might be true. Then again, the internet might just suck at us. Either way, I believe the problem to be sorted out now, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
Quoted from SkitBPinball:We're trying out an overlay kind of process for the playfield right now. It's a pretty fancy process which makes it nearly impossible for the playfield to groove or for the art to fade or wear off. The test playfield we have here--even though there is no art on it yet--plays butter smooth and shows absolutely zero signs of grooving or peeling.
The cabinet art is applied with vinyl decals. We talked with the proprietor of a local vinyl shop here and showed him our old prototype cabinet (the one from Allentown) and voiced all of our concerns. After some lengthy explanations as to why certain things happen (peeling, fading, etc.), we were comfortable enough to let him give our newest prototype a shot and we are not disappointed in the least. We've left sun-lamps on it for a few days straight in very tight spots (like an 8 inch square on the side) and there is absolutely zero signs of fade. We've also held a hairdryer against the corners (read:problem areas) with no peeling issues. For those of you who saw the game on the Chicago Expo floor, you could see the cabinet looked as professional as any other game in the hall.
This might be true. Then again, the internet might just suck at us. Either way, I believe the problem to be sorted out now, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
good on you for clarifying - look forward to some art photos
and email just arrived minutes ago
Just a shot in the dark, I have searched but cannot find; anyone have #222 or know who has it?
That was my dads company number in Vietnam, he was a chopper sidegunner. They had a motto: "222 hits 'em 2 hard 2 fast and 2 often" I thought that would be a great tribute and inscription.
Looking to trade #201 or #202
Got my email. Details of individual pins in a few days, so sounds good.
Rick.
"I'm gonna have me some fun" #190
I asked earlier not sure if you caught it, do you know how many characters we can add to the name plate?
Well if I can add it my inscription is gonna be "Long tall Sally, she's built sweet, she's got everything that Uncle Jon needs"
Hands off peeps 
Quoted from underlord:Got my email. Details of individual pins in a few days, so sounds good.
Rick.
"I'm gonna have me some fun" #190
I put the movie in last night and considered that to be the best quote to put on my name plate.
I might change it but I might now lol.
Chris
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Well if I can add it my inscription is gonna be "Long tall Sally, she's built sweet, she's got everything that Uncle Jon needs"
Hands off peeps
That was my second choice, at least the Long tall Sally part. It is gonna be hard to come up with something unique to the movie...... That's for sure.
Chris
Ok, clarification gents. email wasn't for any payment yet, right? Didn't even ask for a response. It was more like a JJP update email. I thought Kevin and crew were looking for minor deposits?
Rick.
"I'm gonna have me some fun" #190
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:I asked earlier not sure if you caught it, do you know how many characters we can add to the name plate?
I'm not sure how many characters can go on the plate, but I really doubt the whole line from Long Tall Sally will fit in there.
Quoted from SkitBPinball:I'm not sure how many characters can go on the plate, but I really doubt the whole line from Long Tall Sally will fit in there.
Will the plaque be removable or permanently attached? I'm pretty sure what I want inscribed but not sure I want it there when my kids are around. If it is going to be permanent I might have to go another route.
Quick question on the concept of using an overlay for the production playfields: has the Predator team done any aging studies on using an adhesive backed overlay long term? Back in the 80's everyone thought they had found the new savior in playfield protection... We all know how that ended up - ten years later the Mylar bubbles and cracks effectively ruining the playfield. Considering the playfield is the most expensive and difficult component to replace, I sure hope the new process your considering will stand the test of time... Also, do you plan on clear coating after the overlay for more protection and that added shine and gloss that makes playfields so sweet?
That's a great question T-800, I have to admit I'm kinda disappointed to hear the playfield art maybe simply an overlay but providing its durable and looks great I could probably live with it, although so far I'm not stoked on the comic/cartoony art of the characters.
Well, it all depends on what is meant by "overlay".
If the art is printed/impregnated onto a durble substrate and laminated to the playfield, it could be super durable. Think Formica 
Also, there are many printers that offer direct-to-substrate printing. For lack of a better description, it would be like running a primed playfield through an inkjet printer and then sealing it with some sort of clearcoat. Just a more efficient and inexpensive means of achieving the same effect as silk screening.
I certainly wouldn't be too comfortable with a paper-backed print being laid down on the wood.
Quoted from Drano:Well, it all depends on what is meant by "overlay".
If the art is printed/impregnated onto a durble substrate and laminated to the playfield, it could be super durable. Think Formica
Also, there are many printers that offer direct-to-substrate printing. For lack of a better description, it would be like running a primed playfield through an inkjet printer and then sealing it with some sort of clearcoat. Just a more efficient and inexpensive means of achieving the same effect as silk screening.
I certainly wouldn't be too comfortable with a paper-backed print being laid down on the wood.
From what I understand this is similar to the way they are doing WOZ. On Charlies podcast they talked about printing direct to wood.
I'm glad some others mentioned it because I was concerned when I read about it being an overlay as well. I have used overlays and they are a nice alternative, but not what I would want to see in a production game. Ultimately I would think you are going to have some trouble with delamination.
Hopefully Skit-B comes in and explains a little more in detail about the playfield process as I could see this being a deal breaker for some. My personal opinion is to not use an overlay and I'm sure the problem they are gonna run into is the price of whatever machine they are gonna buy or rent to do this. I could live with cabinet decals fading or peeling but the playfield is the most important part and needs to be treated as such.
The Direct Ink process used by John Greatwitch looks pretty good. I examined the Star Gazer playfield up close at the Expo and I was impressed with the results.
FWIW, I've seen the bubbling overlay on a TX-Sector playfield. Keep in mind that overlay process was 25 years ago, I'm sure the technology has improved quite a bit since then.
So what everyone is saying is that I'm going to be clearcoating the PF, and possibly the cab, when I get it (after a proper 'break-in' of course). 
Quoted from Nibbles:So what everyone is saying is that I'm going to be clearcoating the PF, and possibly the cab, when I get it (after a proper 'break-in' of course).
Possibly, just make sure you use the right type of clearcoat material... I've read a lot of custom pinball threads and many of them had issues with ruining the overlay because they were spraying a clearcoat with incompatible chemistries.
Quoted from Nibbles:So what everyone is saying is that I'm going to be clearcoating the PF, and possibly the cab, when I get it (after a proper 'break-in' of course).
Well from what Kevin said earlier in the thread is that cab artwork looks to be really solid and they have tried to make it fade but that hasn't happened yet.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Well from what Kevin said earlier in the thread is that cab artwork looks to be really solid and they have tried to make it fade but that hasn't happened yet.
I think it would be very unlikely to see any kind of fade from a few day test under a heat lamp.
Got the email twice. I feel kinda special
A question to the Skit-B team - I'm holding a pinball and retro arcade event here in the UK at the end of June 2013(I invited you to the FB page NERG) Do you think we'll have the delivery over the pond by then? It's gonna be the star of the show
Anyone else who is interested: - https://www.facebook.com/#!/NorthEastRetroGamingLimited
Nothing really there yet, just the event announcement
Quoted from rommy:These guys are pinheads after all y'all. No way they are going to use a "decal" for playfield art.
man I hope not!! direct ink maybe but playing on a sticker is not making a game by players for players.
Quoted from Marc:using an overlay for the playfield was a BIG let down.
Quoted from J85M:I'm kinda disappointed to hear the playfield art maybe simply an overlay
Quoted from gambit3113:Overlay PF art is the first chink in the armor for me, too.
Quoted from Drano:I certainly wouldn't be too comfortable with a paper-backed print being laid down on the wood.
Quoted from Betelgeuse:I was concerned when I read about it being an overlay as well.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:I could see this being a deal breaker for some.
Quoted from Marc:playing on a sticker is not making a game by players for players.
Quoted from rommy:No way they are going to use a "decal" for playfield art.
Wow! I guess this is a big drawback to sharing information as it develops My post about the playfield art application just says what we are trying out right now. To ease all of your minds, there are a couple of things to be said here:
The process we're trying out is not a sticker on wood by any means. Formica is a close idea to what it is, but it's not exact. We are actually still in the dark on the nitty-gritty of it because it's military technology and civilians aren't privy to the information.
It has been out in the real world for some time now, and has proven to be nearly indestructible. Delamination was the number one concern we talked about, and the contractor was extremely confident that it would not be an issue.
Lastly, we've talked with Classic Playfield Reproductions and they have shown interest in doing the playfields for us, and we all know they do fantastic work and they do it through the conventional means that have been tried and true for years. This is one of the options we were looking at that WILL increase the price of the machine, so we were looking into something a little different that could compare to the quality that is needed. If it doesn't make the cut, then CPR is the only other option we're willing to follow. As potential owners of the final product, voice your opinions now. If you're genuinely uncomfortable with what we're considering, let's just leave the idea on the table of potentially increased cost for the comfort of knowing exactly what we'll be getting by going through CPR.
I am interested in hearing more about a nearly indestructible playfield surface! Less money and lasts forever sounds amazing to me. As always, I trust Skit-B's decisions to make this game how you see fit without cutting costs and making the best damn game you can.
The old way is not always the best way, and I trust that you guys are going to completely vet out anything new or revolutionary before making it a permanent decision for the final game.
Quoted from SkitBPinball:Wow! I guess this is a big drawback to sharing information as it develops...
You shouldn't look at our opinions as a drawback. You should look at it as a constructive criticism or valid concern. I want this to be a successful venture, but the idea of the word "overlay" brings to mind very bad thoughts. Maybe I jumped the gun to call it a sticker but in my mind an overlay is a sticker (especially in the world of pinball). If it is a formica derivative the I would call it a laminate.
In the end this entire project is blind faith by us, your customers. I've committed to a purchase and barring anything egregious I will follow through with my purchase. Remember you can't make all of us happy and somebody will always not like something but I, with blind faith, hope for a great product.
-Marc
#32
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