(Topic ID: 26628)

New Predator Info Thread


By SkitBPinball

7 years ago



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#6051 6 years ago

I like it overall for the most part.
I actually like the playfield art.
The cabinet is good, same as the translite.
I love the sound and and DMD plasma.
Software seems solid too. Plastics are ok.

Here is what I agree with the others on which can hopefully be fixed.

Make the ramps CLEAR, they are still muddy in there current mode!
Light the playfield better. It's pretty dark.
Make sure the UV predator is clearly visible(I know you said this)!

Also please upload a video as soon as the better coat of UV paint is applied cause I really want to see the predator not just a couple dreadlocks.

The game is coming along and almost there! My excitement is starting to come back.

#34

#6052 6 years ago

Just to confirm. The games price is $5000, right?

#6053 6 years ago
Quoted from vster23:

Plastics are ok.
Here is what I agree with the others on which can hopefully be fixed.
Make the ramps CLEAR, they are still muddy in there current mode!
Light the playfield better. It's pretty dark.
Make sure the UV Predator is clearly visible(I know you said this)!

34

I agree that the above things are what still need love to get this thing polished. Luckily these things are all very fixable at this stage.

Most important to me at this stage...
RAMPS NEED TO BE CLEAR.

#6054 6 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Just to confirm. The games price is $5000, right?

4750... Is what it has always been as far as i know...

#6055 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

4750... Is what it has always been as far as i know...

Ya. $250 Deposit + $4500 at time of shipping (or pre-pay for bonuses)

#6056 6 years ago

Didn't they say somewhere in this thread it was $5000? OR am I dreaming?

#6057 6 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Didn't they say somewhere in this thread it was $5000? OR am I dreaming?

You might be dreaming that you just found a pinball that's not 8k LE NIB

#6058 6 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

You might be dreaming that you just found a pinballs that's not 8k LE NIB

Haha. Yeah, its like i'm looking for the 'catch' here. Don't know why I thought that?

#6059 6 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

Ya. $250 Deposit + $4500 at time of shipping (or pre-pay for bonuses)

Plus shipping cost and you're looking at 5K. At least that's how I look at it.

Kim
http://www.WrongCrowdProductions.com/

#6060 6 years ago

$250 to the UK for shipping would be a great price. Fingers crossed.

#6061 6 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Didn't they say somewhere in this thread it was $5000? OR am I dreaming?

Some pinball price guide valued it at $5k

#6062 6 years ago

thank for the video kevin.

i have to give it to you guys, after everything we said, opinions, the good and the bad, you guys are still here trying to make everybody happy and that is just amazing.

#6063 6 years ago

Just saw the new video. This game is gonna kick ass!

#6064 6 years ago

Looks like this is really coming together. It would be great to get a tour of the guts of this game, see what is inside and how everything is tied together.

#6065 6 years ago

I just assumed the ramps were still prototypes, and that that final ones would look like normal clear ones that games have always had. Hopefully that's true, and that whole part is a non issue.

I like the jungle plastics. Feels immersive. As I said before, armor looks great in person. Wish I could have seen it play at Expo, but the video was helpful, the sound and animation really look like they're clicking right. That's no small feat, that's super important stuff that's hard to get right.

If you don't like the teal pops just swap them, I'm sure it's standard hardware. 3 red pop tops, some red LEDs, and you can have your predator laser sight. Cost you $30 and you can move on.

I've been feeling super stressed just over getting my Shadow translites out to people a week late, I can only imagine Kevin wants this to be all ready and good to go, but you gotta take the time to do what's right. I'm not a buyer, just someone who thinks it's a great project, hope to see and play a final machine some day.

#6066 6 years ago

are these the final inserts? I swore earlier versions had colored inserts and I feel like these look plain or unfinished.

edit: on rewatching the video I see the inserts are nuetral colored while the LEDs are colored. Are these color changing LEDs like WOZ?

#6067 6 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

You might be dreaming that you just found a pinball that's not 8k LE NIB

I must say that was a very nice video update. Any regrets for dumping #69?

#6068 6 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If you don't like the teal pops just swap them, I'm sure it's standard hardware. 3 red pop tops, some red LEDs, and you can have your Predator laser sight. Cost you $30 and you can move

I remember a convo when we were shootin the shit about the pops looking like the Pred vision. It was hinted something about changing colors but I think that's off the table. I'd like to see if I could change the code somewhere down the road. I would use either color changing led or just two lights and a clear bumper. Green for normal play and red for hunt.

Like I said, would have to see if I could code it.

#6069 6 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

$250 to the UK for shipping would be a great price.

Don't count on it

#6070 6 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL
STRAWBERRY JAM SKULL

At least somebody likes the strawberry jelly skull.

#6071 6 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

hope to see and play a final machine some day.

My doors always open.

#6072 6 years ago

Were are the flashers?

#6073 6 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Were are the flashers?

That is a good question.

#6074 6 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

My doors always open.

Hit you up on my "Aurich visits his translites world tour".

#6075 6 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Were are the flashers?

+1

#6076 6 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

I must say that was a very nice video update. Any regrets for dumping #69?

Kinda, but my other 18 pins can keep me company for now

#6077 6 years ago

After watching a few more times I have a couple more questions:

1) What is the ball return after the claw? In the video it looks like it sort of just casually spills back onto the table.

2) I think I have to side with the folks asking about lighting. The playfield actually looks a lot better/more cohesive with cabinet than I had feared post expo, but it definitely looks dark. Anything more happening there with spots?

3) Are there going to be plastics covering up the ultra mega bright whites on the guides by the flippers?

#6078 6 years ago

I think the game is coming together nicely - like the red armor!

Where is Anna?

#6079 6 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Were are the flashers?

Holy shit, how did I completely miss this. Good point. No flashers?

#6080 6 years ago
Quoted from navajas:

After watching a few more times I have a couple more questions:
1) What is the ball return after the claw? In the video it looks like it sort of just casually spills back onto the table.
2) I think I have to side with the folks asking about lighting. The playfield actually looks a lot better/more cohesive with cabinet than I had feared post expo, but it definitely looks dark. Anything more happening there with spots?
3) Are there going to be plastics covering up the ultra mega bright whites on the guides by the flippers?

For #3, I assumed it was just missing the plastics for the ball guides near the flippers, much like there are still black plastics for the slings. If that is indeed the final look for the ball guides, I will be shocked/disappointing.

#6081 6 years ago

Looking good,now wheres my game
Someone get on that choppa mod (Matt)

Dan #16

#6082 6 years ago
Quoted from Cobra:

Any idea how dark it needs to be in the room to see the UV reactive stuff? If you are playing this in a lit room or during the day, will you be able to see it still?

I would suggest ignoring the UV for now. As mentioned in the video it was a light, test coat. When they reveal the UV as it will appear in the production, then let's see how it will look.

#6083 6 years ago
Quoted from flashburn:

I'd like to suggest something that's probably too late, but how about ramp exit's like Mousin' Around? Where basically the ball doesn't slow down at all at the exit, it would make this fast paced game even faster. No clue why this isn't used more often.

OK, so I've been letting that idea ferment for a while....
I think it's a brilliant suggestion. Well done Flashburn, I hope they can use it.

Kim
http://www.WrongCrowdProductions.com/

#6084 6 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Were are the flashers?

flasher.jpg
#6085 6 years ago
Quoted from pingod:

Looking good,now wheres my game
Someone get on that choppa mod (Matt)
Dan #16

From a design point I'd have tried to figure out how to put a chopper by the VUK not the skull. Where we are now, an actual chopper would be cool, but sort of misleading. I would have thought as a player we'd be asked to "Get to the choppa!" for some game effect, and the mode start would be a natural for that. Or maybe some jackpot shot or something. As is, the player will undoubtedly be told to get to the choppa, scan the field and see no choppa to which to get. Haha.

Oh well, no biggie.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and, seriously, where's Anna?

#6086 6 years ago
Quoted from navajas:

Oh yeah, and, seriously, where's Anna?

In the comment above Flashing

#6087 6 years ago

Kevin,

Thanks for posting up the video update. I think the machine is really coming together. One feedback I would like to give is that the shape of the plastics don't seem to be organic enough to really represent a jungle look. If you look at Special Force, they did a pretty good job at curved plastics that stacked to give the appearance of a jungle. Even adding in more curves to the existing plastics would make it look better IMO.

Also like the new mode, not being able to trap/cradle definitely will make that multi-ball hectic and fits well with the theme.

#6088 6 years ago
Quoted from flashburn:

I see what you are saying, but I doubt it. The plastics themselves color looked washed out in the video, I doubt that was due to camera exposure, although perhaps the harshness of the lighting that wasn't covered by plastics was. Also the center of the playfield is completely unlit, no way it isn't dark.

The camera they're using is, to put it mildly, a budget model. The color saturation across the board is going to be poor.

Start watching at 35 seconds and watch as he slowly pans up. The colors look very faded and as he slowly continues upward they magically "warm up". That's a cheap camera.

As for the GI, I also don't think you can come to any conclusions from the video. When a basic camera is set on 'auto' settings, and there's a bright light in the field of vision, it attempts to balance the overall pic by making everything else darker. The brighter the lights, the darker everything else. Try this by pointing your cell phone camera directly at a light and start recording. Now quickly move it to a picture on the wall. The picture will be dark and then slowly become visible. Now quickly point it back to the light - the detail of objects around the light will fade to black.

The bottom line is if you want to shoot low light you need a camera with a big lens and those start around the cost of a STERN pro model.

#6089 6 years ago

Yes...but you can also get fantastic results with a hi def camcorder for $499.

#6090 6 years ago

I watched the video again, I think I'm in the minority about the ramps but it's freaking me out. If they make the revised ramps even deeper, they are going to look really bulky, and those covers block a lot of real estate, especially if they're on the cloudy/milky side. I doubt they are going to change to wire ramps now, oh well.......

Edit: if they are making the ramps clear without the end covers I'll try to keep an open mind.

#6091 6 years ago

The software will probably be the most impressive part of this game, I've never seen a game where the player was forced NOT to hold the flipper up, along with the great modes, the sound effects and music, the login feature, stat tracking, and player achievements will make this game real fun.

I'm really liking the red trim and legs.

I was hoping for something that would track the players shot progress? But maybe this will just be displayed on the DMD in the info?

What's going to cover the hardware holding the hanging body? And the ball is going to come in contact with body? I was hoping a made ramp shot would make the body shake via a small coil ala AFM or something.

Definitely could see the Predator face in the UV but it was super dim, if this was a light application, Im hoping the next playfield has a heavy one and shows through like intended. Maybe the UV light strips will need to stronger or angled differently?

I think the plastics look good, feels like you're "in" the jungle, and not staring down at it.

15
#6092 6 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Is there an option in the menu to take out all the advertising on the plasma display or will that have to stay there?

It's just part of the attract mode. They're not so much advertisements, but acknowledgements of all the folks that helped make the game possible. It's also a good reminder that the game isn't as "homemade" as people think Of course, the game is open-source, so it would be easy to just remove them later.

Quoted from NYP:

Is there an option in the menu to take out all the advertising on the plasma display or will that have to stay there? And just a suggestion for the covers at the end of the ramps. Not crazy about how that cover looks.

The covers look terrible. The video says we're increasing the overall depth of the ramps to 1.25", so those certainly won't be there when the game is done.

Quoted from NYP:

I'm sure someone already mentioned using glo balls but I keep thinking how bad it worked on Viper.

If I remember correctly, Viper's UV was pretty isolated. One of my friends over at www.modmypin.com hit me up at expo and got me a set of glo balls to try out. I was going to throw them in for the video, but I didn't want people to think they were part of the final build. That will be done separately.

Quoted from NinJaBooT:

I know there has been some criticism as of late and maybe a few premature drop outs(i'm sure due to MMR release although they won't admit it)but I would rather play a crisp new game than a 20 year old remake.

Whatever their reasons are their own, for sure. Just to play blatant crowd control, over the last few weeks we have lost a total of 6 or 7 people. I'm certainly not happy with that number, but it serves to point out that people aren't "dropping like flies" or anything.

Quoted from Mr68:

I loved seeing that glossy clear coated playfield in the video. How many coats of clear are being used?

I have no idea, but I can tell you it's like 1/16" thick and takes over a week to cure properly. It's pretty meaty stuff.

Quoted from Mr68:

With every show I have seen improvements in this game and I have found Kevin to be a stand up guy. He probably thinks I stalking him and I’m in hunt mode.

Thanks, Kim We always look forward to seeing you at any show we attend!

Quoted from Cobra:

Any idea how dark it needs to be in the room to see the UV reactive stuff? If you are playing this in a lit room or during the day, will you be able to see it still?

Yeah, the effect is pretty global across the whole playfield. I wouldn't put it directly under a fluorescent light fixture, though, because the effect will be lessened overall.

Quoted from rai:

thanks for the video, is the refresh line something we will see or is that just because it's on video? That refresh line looks horrible.

Like Eric said, it's just a matter of two technologies not interacting properly. There's nothing like that at all in person.

Quoted from flashburn:

GI lighting is flat out terrible. The whites are so bright, it completely washes out all of the plastics colors. The center of the playfield is way too dark. Hopefully there will be some spotlights added (although they weren't mentioned).

I agree the GI lighting needs to be done a bit differently. Those double dome whites are just too much, and while it does look better in person, it needs to be toned down a bit. Flexi-heads will likely be used to throw the light around better and fill in the darker spots in the center of the field. Some might remember our earlier prototypes had those, but they were colored and we didn't want to make any assumptions about what people like better, as the LED debate continues to this day and shows no signs of slowing down.

Quoted from rai:

maybe the ramp return so there less or no slow down to the return. I couldn't tell from your video but the shark club video had the ball swirl a lot before they exit the ramp holes. That is a buzz kill for me.

rai, we apparently like our games to play very similarly. "Bounceback" at the end of a ramp drives me nuts, and too slow of a return from them really is a buzz kill. We have found a good way to completely eliminate both of these issues, and it is actually pretty simple to implement, so I will be able to make the change to this unit and show that in action pretty shortly here.

Quoted from dfsays:

made me want to put up for a pre-order. Can you still do that?

I'm afraid you'll have to do battle with the waitlist Get with me personally if you'd like to be added. Also, your profile says you're from Flint, MI, so being one of the few "north of metro area" pinheads, we just have to know each other. Interested to find out who you are IRL, as we only live about an hour apart.

Quoted from vster23:

Here is what I agree with the others on which can hopefully be fixed.
Make the ramps CLEAR, they are still muddy in there current mode!
Light the playfield better. It's pretty dark.
Make sure the UV Predator is clearly visible(I know you said this)!
Also please upload a video as soon as the better coat of UV paint is applied cause I really want to see the Predator not just a couple dreadlocks.

While it is sometimes difficult to deal with open criticism, the bright side is definitely posts like these. By that, I mean when literally ALL of someone's concerns are already being dealt with.
The ramps we have on now were made from a professional tool to our CAD spec, but were made from a wooden tool. When we upgrade to aluminum, they will be glass-clear. Wooden tool was about $2k, while aluminum is about $7k, and that's what prototyping is all about. It's a darn good thing we did, too, because the ramps are being changed now and that would have hurt to have just left $5k on the table.
Playfield lighting is being updated with flexi's to better hit the middle of the playfield.
High-intensity UV playfield is being printed and is on its way shortly. Can't wait to show it off!

Quoted from Whysnow:

Most important to me at this stage...
RAMPS NEED TO BE CLEAR.

Please see above

Quoted from Russo121:

Haha. Yeah, its like i'm looking for the 'catch' here. Don't know why I thought that?

The 'catch' is that you have to survive quite possibly the longest thread on Pinside.

Quoted from beatmaster:

i have to give it to you guys, after everything we said, opinions, the good and the bad, you guys are still here trying to make everybody happy and that is just amazing.

You guys certainly hold me to a pretty demanding standard, that's for sure!

Quoted from Buschjs:

It would be great to get a tour of the guts of this game, see what is inside and how everything is tied together.

That actually sounds like a fun little video to do. Now that everything is running standalone and on its own hardware, I think it would be a good time for it.

Quoted from DrStarkweather:

are these the final inserts? I swore earlier versions had colored inserts and I feel like these look plain or unfinished.
edit: on rewatching the video I see the inserts are nuetral colored while the LEDs are colored. Are these color changing LEDs like WOZ?

A lot of people like the clearer inserts, but I have to admit that I on somewhat on-the-fence about them. Let's put it to an informal vote! Also, no color-changing LEDs on this game. Am I seriously the only person who gets confused as hell by color-changing LEDs and what they mean for the game in play?

Quoted from playboywillis:

Green for normal play and red for hunt.
Like I said, would have to see if I could code it.

Again, the game is open source, so you can do whatever you want with it after-the-fact. That being said, it would be a pretty easy mod to do. You would just have to add red LEDs next to the green ones in the pops and tie them into the wiring for the UV lights.

Quoted from dannunz:

Were are the flashers?

Going in today. Really wanted to have these ready for the video, but I didn't want anyone to have to wait any longer to see the game than they had to.

Quoted from fattrain:

Kinda, but my other 18 pins can keep me company for now

After seeing this post, I had to check out your collection. Lots of good Data East love going on over there, I love it

Quoted from navajas:

What is the ball return after the claw? In the video it looks like it sort of just casually spills back onto the table.

After the claw the ball gets fired out back into the pops. I've been working on software tweaks to get the timing perfect, but due to the new switches / switch placement, about 1 in 1000 times the ball will land at the tip of the lane and roll back out onto the field. It's just a really wild mockery of science that it would happen twice in the same game while video is being recorded. Murphy's Law in action, ladies and gentlemen!

Quoted from navajas:

I think I have to side with the folks asking about lighting. The playfield actually looks a lot better/more cohesive with cabinet than I had feared post expo, but it definitely looks dark. Anything more happening there with spots?

Not with spots, but with the flexi's we talked about.

Quoted from navajas:

Are there going to be plastics covering up the ultra mega bright whites on the guides by the flippers?

Losing the mega bright whites altogether.

#6093 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yes...but you can also get fantastic results with a hi def camcorder for $499.

That all depends on the adult actress involved.

#6094 6 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

The camera they're using is, to put it mildly, a budget model. The color saturation across the board is going to be poor.
Start watching at 35 seconds and watch as he slowly pans up. The colors look very faded and as he slowly The bottom line is if you want to shoot low light you need a camera with a big lens and those start around the cost of a STERN pro model.

You seem to know what you're talking about. Please get with me personally if you have the time to point me in the right direction on new cameras to check out. The one we have here isn't so much a "budget model" from a casual consumer's standpoint, but just because the box says 1080p recording doesn't mean it's good. Honestly, the camera is like 3 years old now and the Lumia 1020 cell phone could probably keep up with it at this point.

Quoted from spfxted:

Yes...but you can also get fantastic results with a hi def camcorder for $499.

Maybe you should get ahold of me instead

Quoted from NYP:

and those covers block a lot of real estate, especially if they're on the cloudy/milky side.

Don't worry, they won't be cloudy/milky at all.

Quoted from MagicMako:

I was hoping for something that would track the players shot progress? But maybe this will just be displayed on the DMD in the info?

The game keeps track of a mind-boggling amount of information about each individual player. You can check how many times you've hit any and every shot on the playfield, along with how many Jackpots, Supers, modes, etc you've gotten, as well.

Quoted from MagicMako:

I think the plastics look good, feels like you're "in" the jungle, and not staring down at it.

He gets it!

#6095 6 years ago
Quoted from SkitBPinball:

A lot of people like the clearer inserts, but I have to admit that I on somewhat on-the-fence about them. Let's put it to an informal vote! Also, no color-changing LEDs on this game. Am I seriously the only person who gets confused as hell by color-changing LEDs and what they mean for the game in play?

I have to say I like the clearer/neutral inserts from a personal configuration stand point. This allows me to put in whatever color LED I want.

#6096 6 years ago
Quoted from SkitBPinball:

A lot of people like the clearer inserts, but I have to admit that I on somewhat on-the-fence about them. Let's put it to an informal vote! Also, no color-changing LEDs on this game. Am I seriously the only person who gets confused as hell by color-changing LEDs and what they mean for the game in play?

Lot's of great feedback Kevin in your posts above. I vote for colored inserts without a doubt.

My only criticism of the game so far has been with the hanging body - doesn't look finished to me. The rest seems to be coming along great - can't wait to see the improvements your mentioned, including the UV update.

Scott
#12

#6097 6 years ago

Is the only "Maskless Predator" going to be the UV on the playfield??

#6098 6 years ago
Quoted from SkitBPinball:

Also, no color-changing LEDs on this game. Am I seriously the only person who gets confused as hell by color-changing LEDs and what they mean for the game in play?

I think they have their place, but not on an insert that indicates a shot you need to take. For example, I just picked up a ToM and the M-A-G-I-C letters on the playfield had them already installed. They don't indicate a particular shot so it adds a nice effect.

#6099 6 years ago

Kevin, sounds like you are re charged and ready to take on the world! I love what I am hearing / seeing and that you are still taking suggestions this late in the game. I am sure some just want the game to ship but you have to get this right the first time and thanks to JJP most people are use to delays.

On a side note: finish eating your tacos next time ok?

Chris

#6100 6 years ago

I find it funny reading a thread like this, it just goes to show the different things people make a priority. When all is said and done the most important thing to me is how a game plays, the feel of the shots, the variety of the shots and the depth and challenge of the rules. Toys are nice, dots are nice, sound is nice but, there are plenty of games with great toys, dots, art and sounds, that I might enjoy for a minute and half, but would not want in my collection. Obviously I would prefer a great playing, challenging and deep game that also had good dots, sound, art and toys, but, seems so many people focus on the latter. Certainly I like a theme that I can relate to as well, but again, first and foremost is how does it play.

There are plenty of games from the 80s and 90s, that don't have fancy toys and the like, that are great playing games. If this game ends up being like that, then the Skit-B guys should feel great about it. At this point I have no idea whether or not this is a great playing game, time will tell, and I look forward to getting an opportunity at some point to really play one.

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