(Topic ID: 98272)

New policy for editing your posts

By robin

7 years ago


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  • 177 posts
  • 73 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by JSmith
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    29
    #1 7 years ago

    We have a new policy for editing of old posts and, more specifically, the time frame in which you are allowed to do so.

    The reason for this is that we are seeing a lot of people editing old posts, topicstarts, topic titles and emptying them. We are sometimes seeing topics where all content from a user has been stripped out, leaving an undecipherable mess that no longer has value to the site. This is not only bad for the site but it could potentially allow bad people to cover their tracks.

    So what are the new limits? Note that these are still subject to change:


    Site staff (like moderators) - Can edit *all* posts, forever
    Regular users - Can edit their own posts for 4 hours
    New users - Can edit their own posts for 1 hour
    Regular users can edit their opening posts for 24 hours.

    Edit:
    After plenty of discussion I have not yet reached a final decision. For now, the limits are like before until I get more time to think about this

    New Pinside users
    Opening post: editable for 2 days
    Normal post: editable for 8 hours

    Regular Pinside users (you become a regular based on karma / time you are a member)
    Opening post: forever editable
    Normal post: editable for a year

    #2 7 years ago

    Been hoping for this. Thanks robin!

    #3 7 years ago

    Awesome. Frankly the unlimited editing was useful only in a few edge cases....biggest one I can think of is people with large parts for sale threads that have been updated over months to account for new stuff and sold stuff.

    29
    #4 7 years ago

    It was nice to see SOLD in the topic when an item sold.

    11
    #5 7 years ago
    Quoted from kcZ:

    It was nice to see SOLD in the topic when an item sold.

    And also annoying when people edited out the price, IMO. Two sides to everything lol...

    #6 7 years ago

    Eww. Bad news for bad spellers.

    Edit : Just had to throw an edit in The Edit thread.

    45
    #7 7 years ago

    Would prefer 8-12 hrs to edit. Sometimes it takes me longer than 4 hrs to sober up.

    #8 7 years ago
    Quoted from Erik:

    Sometimes it takes me longer than 4 hrs to sober up

    Funny!

    #9 7 years ago

    And a third side. I liked the idea of going back into old tech posts to be able to update them with info ie parts availability, new technique, correct an inaccuracy, etc rather than bumping an old tech post and making a user connect the posts/dots so to speak. Perhaps different editing rules for different sub-forums? Just a thought...

    viperrwk

    #10 7 years ago

    I totally understand why you did this, we had to sadly implement the same kind of policy at Ars, too many people trying to go back and edit out history.

    It's too bad for some threads though. Like for my translite sale threads, they get pretty huge, no one wants to read 25 pages to figure out what's going on, so I was always good about editing the opening post to reflect the current status of order with a dated message.

    #11 7 years ago

    Make editing posts past 12 hours require moderator approval before it goes live.

    #12 7 years ago

    Will will be able to the edit the title of the original post? That way we can change the price of a machine for sale?

    #13 7 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    And also annoying when people edited out the price, IMO. Two sides to everything lol...

    Good point. The title should be appended and not edited.

    #14 7 years ago
    Quoted from NightTrain:

    Will will be able to the edit the title of the original post? That way we can change the price of a machine for sale?

    Marking a machine down and or sold is truly a time saving feature for both posters and readers. Also, not being able to edit the title (to mark down the price of a machine) may encourage sellers to create duplicate posts with new pricing.

    #15 7 years ago

    If we need to change anything, we can PM a mod to make a change, yes?

    #16 7 years ago

    I unintentionally had to edit my above post.

    #17 7 years ago

    There are some shady sellers going back and deleting posts, and it sucks. My opinion, maybe 4 hours for posts in the for sale section, and longer in other sections?

    Maybe no limit in the tech sections as my guess is this isn't a problem there?

    #18 7 years ago

    As long as we can still edit our avatars, I'm good.

    #19 7 years ago

    I try to update topics I create if there was a change in status. I've this for post much older than the 24hrs proposed. I know that post reflect a resolution with a check so maybe that could be carried over to the top thread for people searching out tech solutions.

    #20 7 years ago
    Quoted from Erik:

    Would prefer 8-12 hrs to edit. Sometimes it takes me longer than 4 hrs to sober up.

    That's funny. I was thinking the same thing.

    #21 7 years ago

    Thanks for all the input. I'm considering all the ideas given and will be making changes where needed. I think you all get why this is needed. I have a few ideas that might work in some cases:

    - moderator being able to mark a topic as being forever-editable by its author. This would work in big parts for sale threads.
    - the option to add to a post, when editing is no longer possible. This could be pretty handy.

    #22 7 years ago

    I would rather see a revision count on edited posts, and the ability to view older revisions.

    #23 7 years ago

    Maybe add only and only For Sale threads?

    #24 7 years ago

    Yeah, I have had threads with tech issues that last a couple of weeks, nice to go back when its done and write "FIXED!" in the title.

    #25 7 years ago

    Sledge hammer to fix a minor issue

    A person should always be able to edit their post
    Better (firmer) moderation would make idiots think before they post garbage

    #26 7 years ago

    I have an idea:

    After the edit time is up, change EDIT to APPEND. This way you can add to a post but you're not able to remove or modify the previous posted data (for historical purposes).

    This doesn't solve thread title issues (marking something as sold or fixed) but it can add that information to the post itself.

    .. Maybe thread icons could solve that? You could have an option to add a check-mark as a thread's icon to mark something as fixed?

    #27 7 years ago

    There's always the option of using the little link just to the right of the full topic header to mark the thread as "resolved". That link will hopefully remain active even if the threads are no longer able to be edited.

    #28 7 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    And also annoying when people edited out the price, IMO. Two sides to everything lol...

    Agreed. Maybe just can add stuff to title, but not take away?

    #29 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    We have a new policy for editing of old posts and, more specifically, the time frame in which you are allowed to do so.

    Ouch.

    Quoted from Aurich:

    It's too bad for some threads though. Like for my translite sale threads, they get pretty huge, no one wants to read 25 pages to figure out what's going on, so I was always good about editing the opening post to reflect the current status of order with a dated message.

    I agree.

    This doesn't work for me at all.
    Huge disappointment for anyone who runs long very-useful threads with any kind of lists or summaries. (this is an understatement)

    1. Every club thread I run has posts at the top that are a "summary" of the good information the users bring to the club. I edit them on a weekly basis.

    2. Every restore thread I run has 1-2 posts at the top with my task lists, shopping lists, and hours. I edit them on a daily basis.

    3. Aurich or anyone selling something amazing keeps his data current in the first thread.

    4. Teachers like vid1900 often put specialized information in the first few posts, knowing that the thread will be 30+ pages some day, and they will need to update that information over time.

    I'll stop at 4 use cases.

    In my mind the bad easily outweighs the good if this solution is implemented. I can think of one or two times in my two years on the site where I actually ran across a dead thread, and I didn't care at all. That tells me the information wasn't important. If it was a drama thread, I don't care at all, I'm not here for the drama. I'm here to share information and learn.

    If we limit the people on this site who contribute the most: vid1900, aurich, just to name a few to maintain summaries of good information at the top of their threads, then you are creating a bigger problem than the current one that was frustrating you.

    If this idea gets implemented (as its currently thought out), it vastly limits the value I can bring to Pinside. I specialize in long, live, ongoing threads that have strong summaries at the top... Clubs and Restore threads. Please find another solution, or reconsider which case is actually more painful to Pinside.

    Looking forward to a better solution...

    -mof

    #30 7 years ago

    Appending to a post would be a good compromise

    #31 7 years ago

    The advantage of being able to view old revisions would be that it'd be trivial to document the people doing the things that the timer is supposed to prevent (and won't completely).

    #32 7 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    This doesn't work for me at all.
    Huge disappointment. (this is an understatement)

    1. Every club thread I run has posts at the top that are a "summary" of the good information the users bring to the club. I edit them on a weekly basis.

    2. Every restore thread I run has 2 posts at the top with my task lists and hours. I edit them on a daily basis.

    -mof

    So, you didn't read through the entire thread, did you? If so, you would've seen this:

    Quoted from robin:

    I have a few ideas that might work in some cases:

    - moderator being able to mark a topic as being forever-editable by its author. This would work in big parts for sale threads.
    - the option to add to a post, when editing is no longer possible. This could be pretty handy.

    I think if Robin implements these changes to the new rules, that should alleviate your concerns, shouldn't it?

    #33 7 years ago

    Sorry to sound negative but this is going to wreck for sale threads with long lists of items, as this will make it impossible to edit the original post with the list. This will result in confusion, unnecessary posts saying, "x has sold," and people asking about stuff that is already gone because it's still on the for sale list. In my case, I could no longer edit anyway because it has been too long but can an exception be made in the marketplace sub-forum?

    Edit: Oops, I didn't see your input on FS threads Robin. Please disregard. Oh wait, or I can just blank out this post and make it devoid of all useful information.

    #34 7 years ago
    Quoted from Miguel351:

    So, you didn't read through the entire thread, did you? If so, you would've seen this:

    I think if Robin implements these changes to the new rules, that should alleviate your concerns, shouldn't it?

    Yes it does. Thanks for pointing that out.

    It's sure a big burden on the moderators. I'll need them to unlock about 20+ of my threads. I'm just one person.

    -mof

    #35 7 years ago

    Will I be the first to admit that "I'm guilty" of this type of behaviour. But again I'm bring myself back to Aurich's point.

    #36 7 years ago

    I agree that this is a bit of an unexpected change so I will think about a solution and, for now, will re-enable unlimited editing for all regular users.

    Quoted from Linolium:

    I have an idea:
    After the edit time is up, change EDIT to APPEND. This way you can add to a post but you're not able to remove or modify the previous posted data (for historical purposes).

    Yes, that was my though exactly. I think that would be a great solution.

    Quoted from Linolium:

    This doesn't solve thread title issues (marking something as sold or fixed) but it can add that information to the post itself...

    Unfortunately a lot of topics are renamed to things like "." and I'm trying to avoid that. How does other forum software solve this?

    Quoted from RDM:

    There's always the option of using the little link just to the right of the full topic header to mark the thread as "resolved". That link will hopefully remain active even if the threads are no longer able to be edited.

    I think the resolved icon would make a perfect indicator that a game has been sold. Adding the resolved icon is separate from editing capabilities and will keep working, even if a topic is closed.

    Quoted from mof:

    This doesn't work for me at all.
    Huge disappointment for anyone who runs long very-useful threads. (this is an understatement)
    1. Every club thread I run has posts at the top that are a "summary" of the good information the users bring to the club. I edit them on a weekly basis.
    2. Every restore thread I run has 2 posts at the top with my task lists and hours. I edit them on a daily basis.
    -mof

    I hear you and will cook up a solution for this. For now, the unlimited editing option is re-enabled as I work on some tweaks.

    Keep the ideas coming!

    #37 7 years ago

    Actually wait, my DMD Extender thread needs to be editable indefinitely due to changing parts supplier links. Robin it would be nice if a per-user request method was implemented (and soon).

    Edit: D'OPE! Robin, you're playing games with me today.

    #38 7 years ago

    Most of the times I've seen this has been with sale threads. Maybe just implement it in the for sale section?

    #39 7 years ago

    Maybe the thread starter could have the ability to edit only the first post in a thread and the title?

    This would allow them to summarize the items for sale, and re-title threads that are non-informative (like when a thread title is only "Problem" or "Dracula".....

    #40 7 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    Most of the times I've seen this has been with sale threads. Maybe just implement it in the for sale section?

    Quoted from vid1900:

    Maybe the thread starter could have the ability to edit only the first post in a thread and the title?
    This would allow them to summarize the items for sale, and re-title threads that are non-informative (like when a thread title is only "Problem" or "Dracula".....

    Haha, see my problem? Jalperts idea makes sense but then again, as Vid points out, most edits are needed in (parts) for sale threads.

    I also like the idea of allowing edits but keeping a post edit history but that will bring along other problems, for example when someone wants to edit out an address or phone number and it's still there in the edit history.

    I'm seeing a lot of good ideas and maybe a combination of them will work.

    #41 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    The reason for this is that we are seeing a lot of people editing old posts, topicstarts, topic titles and emptying them. We are sometimes seeing topics where all content from a user has been stripped out, leaving an undecipherable mess that no longer has value to the site. This is not only bad for the site but it could potentially allow bad people to cover their tracks.

    I suppose if we are to brainstorm on this, we should start by clearly defining the problem for those of us doing the brainstorming, and consider the problem's cost to the site/community. I certainly have much to learn about this if I can be of help with ideas.

    Looking for any tendencies to narrow the scope of the problem, and a few other questions come to mind:

    * When you say you see "a lot of people" -- I have to be honest and say I've seen this once or twice in almost two years on the site. I'm wondering what I'm doing that I'm missing most of them? If I am wrong about the "amount" I've seen, perhaps that underlines how un-important of an issue it is to me. (Of course I would care more if I owned the site and wanted to see more order and better behavior, I'm just giving feedback.)
    * Can you point out a few threads that demonstrate this problem? How frequent is this problem? How bad is this problem?
    * Do they tend to happen in a particular "area" ('for sale' was suggested)
    * Do they tend to NOT be committed by people over a particular "karma" level?
    * What is the cost to pinside/community so we can weigh that when we consider various solutions?
    * Is the problem seasonal, is it increasing, is it steady?
    * What do other forums do to limit the problem?
    * Does this ever occur with regulars on the site, or just people that delete accounts (hit and runs)

    (A wise man once taught me, "Each and every solution creates a new problem, the goal is to create smaller problems with each solution." I think in today's lingo, it would be more like, "No single solution satisfies all use cases, try to satisfy the most important use case with each new solution."

    -mof

    #42 7 years ago

    Title and first post append only. That way you can add all the information that you would like to the first post and change the title to fixed, sold, etc...

    #43 7 years ago

    B great for a fs thread to add a sold box to activate and sold enters the title

    #44 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    B great for a fs thread to add a sold box to activate and sold enters the title

    Do you think the new "resolved" checkbox solves this?
    -mof

    -1
    #45 7 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Do you think the new "resolved" checkbox solves this?
    -mof

    I wasn't aware that this was even a new feature to be honest. I think it's been around for at least the past year or so. Since I've started posting here at any rate.

    #46 7 years ago
    Quoted from RDM:

    I wasn't aware that this was even a new feature to be honest. I think it's been around for at least the past year or so. Since I've started posting here at any rate.

    "Resolved" was added early july, if I'm not mistaken.

    Quoted from mof:

    I suppose if we are to brainstorm on this, we should start by clearly defining the problem for those of us doing the brainstorming, and consider the problem's cost to the site/community. I certainly have much to learn about this if I can be of help with ideas.
    Looking for any tendencies to narrow the scope of the problem, and a few other questions come to mind:
    * When you say you see "a lot of people" -- I have to be honest and say I've seen this once or twice in almost two years on the site. I'm wondering what I'm doing that I'm missing most of them? If I am wrong about the "amount" I've seen, perhaps that underlines how un-important of an issue it is to me. (Of course I would care more if I owned the site and wanted to see more order and better behavior, I'm just giving feedback.)
    * Can you point out a few threads that demonstrate this problem? How frequent is this problem? How bad is this problem?
    * Do they tend to happen in a particular "area" ('for sale' was suggested)
    * Do they tend to NOT be committed by people over a particular "karma" level?
    * What is the cost to pinside/community so we can weigh that when we consider various solutions?
    * Is the problem seasonal, is it increasing, is it steady?
    * What do other forums do to limit the problem?
    * Does this ever occur with regulars on the site, or just people that delete accounts (hit and runs)
    (A wise man once taught me, "Each and every solution creates a new problem, the goal is to create smaller problems with each solution." I think in today's lingo, it would be more like, "No single solution satisfies all use cases, try to satisfy the most important use case with each new solution."
    -mof

    First of all, let me say that I was not expecting a lot of protest about this. Clearly I was wrong! And that's fine, it makes for a good discussion and hopefully a good solution too. I actually like to work like this, it's often much better than having the discussion *before* building a feature (which often leads to a deadlock of differing opinions).

    As for the editing of posts. It's not immediately a DEFCON 1 situation. But still I feel it's a bad idea to allow people to edit their posts up until a year from posting date (as was the current edit time limit).

    First of all there's the annoying practice of people emptying all their posts in a thread. This leaves a thread that is basically useless to the community.

    I hate prices getting edited out of for sale posts, it's annoying.

    But what I'm more worried about is people being able to change their posts and hide stuff from the community. What they really did or what they really said. Especially when others have reacted to that post (and not quoting the post they were reacting to). This has happened a lot in the past and is something I'm trying to put to an end.

    So to summarise, allowing posts edits for unlimited time is a bad idea. It seems that many forum software developers agree as this is a standard in most other software, apart from Pinside.

    I do recognise the need to be able to edit *some* posts, as illustrated by some examples in this thread. I'm looking for a solution for this, either based on a duration, user karma, amount of reactions after a post, a special designation. I fear the latter would result in a lot of work for me or the mods so it has to be more clever than that

    #47 7 years ago

    Some people say something and want to take it back and erase it days later. Maybe this will make people think twice about what the write (probably not).
    Also I notice sellers erase the asking price out of their for sale posts, so later on people won't call them idiots for selling to low or greedy bastards for selling to high. Seller's can't win, but sale posts that have been sold are a good reference for people looking at selling or purchasing their next game. I feel that if you do a sale post for free (or make a donation), then pay no commission if your item sells, the least you can do is help other buyers and sellers have your sale transaction as a reference for the future. This is fair.

    #48 7 years ago

    I like someone else's idea up top. Let people edit the posts all they want, but also be able to click a button and their edits pop up in a different color. After a few days though. Give people a couple days to come to their senses.

    Quoted from robin:

    So to summarise, allowing posts edits for unlimited time is a bad idea. It seems that many forum software developers agree as this is a standard in most other software, apart from Pinside.

    #49 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    I agree that this is a bit of an unexpected change so I will think about a solution and, for now, will re-enable unlimited editing for all regular users.

    Yes, that was my though exactly. I think that would be a great solution.

    Unfortunately a lot of topics are renamed to things like "." and I'm trying to avoid that. How does other forum software solve this?

    I think the resolved icon would make a perfect indicator that a game has been sold. Adding the resolved icon is separate from editing capabilities and will keep working, even if a topic is closed.

    I hear you and will cook up a solution for this. For now, the unlimited editing option is re-enabled as I work on some tweaks.
    Keep the ideas coming!

    Best forum software on the internet, due to thoughtful and skilled development like this.

    #50 7 years ago

    How about only allowing striking (where the line runs through the old text) as a means of edit?

    You could still add more to a post (like new prices), but all of your old text is still archived forever.

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