(Topic ID: 272899)

New! Pincoder Adapter


By pincoder

9 months ago

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  • 131 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by jjoravec
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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#51 82 days ago
Quoted from Talonslair:

I received my burner today. I'm not sure when I'll get the chance to check the rom. Been busy lately starting a new job. I'm probably going to order a new chip and program it fresh,(if the old one is bad) and keep the Pincoder Adapter as is. It really is a good tool to have for troubleshooting. I've also had a sound issue where one of the words is garbled during speech. It is weird. When it is a damp day it's garbled. When it is a dry day it's fine. I'm thinking it may be a socket issue but at least now I'll be able to test the sound rom with my burner. I appreciate all of your help with this and am grateful for your contribution to the hobby creating this wonderful tool. Thanks for the link too.

I am glad you're finding the Adapter useful Let me know how everything turns out, including the sound issue - which reminds me: I've still got to write a test ROM for the sound card itself. So many things to do

#52 79 days ago

After fighting to get the sticker off, the chip isn't even an eprom. I can't find a listing in my GQ 4x4 for this prom. It is a MOS 5341-09554 4780. On the bottom it says Korea 4863(sorry for the crappy pics). Any advice? Thanks.

IMG_20210130_110150556 (resized).jpgIMG_20210130_110211287 (resized).jpg
#53 79 days ago

It's likely a masked rom and that # is the williams part #. Just burn a new eprom and replace, making sure your board is jumpered for the correct eprom.

#54 79 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

It's likely a masked rom and that # is the williams part #. Just burn a new eprom and replace, making sure your board is jumpered for the correct eprom.

Thanks. I'm not sure about jumper settings, but I'll look into it. Does anyone know if this is a reputable place for eproms: https://www.twistywristarcade.com/eproms/118-2532-eprom.html ?

#55 79 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

Thanks. I'm not sure about jumper settings, but I'll look into it. Does anyone know if this is a reputable place for eproms: https://www.twistywristarcade.com/eproms/118-2532-eprom.html ?

I've never dealt with them before, sorry. Couldn't hurt to try them out.

#56 79 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

Does anyone know if this is a reputable place for eproms: https://www.twistywristarcade.com/eproms/118-2532-eprom.html ?

Never bought eproms from them but have purchased other things from them over the years.

#57 78 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

Does anyone know if this is a reputable place for eproms: https://www.twistywristarcade.com/eproms/118-2532-eprom.html ?

It’s legit. I highly recommend them! I have bought multiple parts from him including Eproms.

#58 78 days ago

Thanks for the replies.

1 week later
#59 71 days ago

Small update: I was able to verify check the 2 game roms as they are eproms and they came out ok. I couldn't verify check the 2 flipper roms as they are masked roms and are not listed in the GQ-4x4 database. I was also able to verify check the sound rom and 3 out of 4 speech roms. One of the speech roms has a leg that is broken off,(I think it's still in the socket. The sticker on it says "5T-5002" and the file is "Speech 5.532". So I believe I need two 2532 eproms, one for the speech rom and one for the flipper rom and one 2716 eprom for the other flipper rom, and a few sockets just in case. Correct?

#60 71 days ago

Correct. You can test those masked roms as 2716 if they are in 2k sockets.

#61 71 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Correct. You can test those masked roms as 2716 if they are in 2k sockets.

Would it be this one?

4x4 (resized).PNG
#62 71 days ago

Since you are just reading the ROM you can use any of the 2716 settings. When you go to write a 2716 try the lowest programming voltage first. Then see if it reads in correctly. If not, try writing at the next higher voltage.

#63 69 days ago

Hi everyone, I got some new TDA2003 amplifier chips in today and thought it would be nice to include a free one with each adapter order from now until Feb 28th 2021. While supplies last of course. These are the amplifier chips used in Williams 3-7 games (and quite likely others, including other pinball manufacturers of the era).

You can find more about it here:

https://pincoder.ca/index.php/2021/02/09/free-tda2003-audio-amplifier-chip/

It never hurts to have a spare chip on hand!

If I'd had them sooner I would have included them with past orders - Sorry if you missed getting one. Orders that went out today already have the bonus amplifier chip included.

#64 66 days ago

I received my eproms. I was able to write the 2 flipper roms successfully(1 to the 2532 and 1 to the 2716), but was not able to write the speech to the other 2532. During the write cycle, it goes all the way to 100% and then fails right after during the verify process(screenshot below). I've tried to put the eprom in the eraser for roughly a half an hour. It shows it is blank but I still can't write to it. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Capture (resized).PNG
#65 66 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

Ok. Thanks for the reply and your help. I did order a burner(GQ-4x4) and eraser. It is supposed to arrive sometime tomorrow. I'll at least be able to check the roms with it. The rom in IC17 that I mentioned earlier looks suspect because it was repaired. I don't believe the sockets are scanbe, but I'll check again to be sure. I did make it through all of the other tests. It felt great to see the displays come to life. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I did not read all of your posts but keep in mind WMS really screwed up on the labeling of system 7 ROM chips around Black Knight era. The stickers almost never match what the board layout / ROM dump labeling. I forget which is mixed up, but at least two usually are. So if you have one not verifying right check the data against other ROM images.

#66 66 days ago

Also, some ROMs have to be written to several times before they will verify. I'm not sure why but it has worked for me at least a few times.

#67 66 days ago

Some chips have different response times and signal requirements in order to successfully write a byte to an address withing the EPROM. If your programmer has any settings for timings or retry values when writing to the chip, you could try adjusting the values such that the writes are tried more times before giving up, and/or holding the value on the bus longer before it moves on to another address.

As well, as Pinball_Postal mentioned, you may have to write multiple times before it succeeds for every address on the chip: You should only erase the chip under the UV light *once* - if you change the image you want to write. In other words, erase it only once, and keep writing the same image to the chip multiple times until it gets all the way through.

I do know the older chips are much more sensitive to timings.. I've been writing code for the Pincoder Controller to allow it to write to these old chips and some locations in the chips take many more attempts to write (like 50-100 over a few seconds) before the write to a single location will succeed. Are you noticing the write process appearing to stall and continue before it gets to the verify process?

#68 65 days ago
Quoted from Talonslair:

It shows it is blank but I still can't write to it. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Means the chip is bad.
Try dropping speed to "-2", and try "Double Write". If it still throws an error after that - chip is bad. Toss it, get another.

#69 65 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Some chips have different response times and signal requirements in order to successfully write a byte to an address withing the EPROM. If your programmer has any settings for timings or retry values when writing to the chip, you could try adjusting the values such that the writes are tried more times before giving up, and/or holding the value on the bus longer before it moves on to another address.
As well, as pinball_postal mentioned, you may have to write multiple times before it succeeds for every address on the chip: You should only erase the chip under the UV light *once* - if you change the image you want to write. In other words, erase it only once, and keep writing the same image to the chip multiple times until it gets all the way through.
I do know the older chips are much more sensitive to timings.. I've been writing code for the Pincoder Controller to allow it to write to these old chips and some locations in the chips take many more attempts to write (like 50-100 over a few seconds) before the write to a single location will succeed. Are you noticing the write process appearing to stall and continue before it gets to the verify process?

Thanks for the tips everyone. I'll keep trying to write.
As for the process stalling, I don't see any slow down during the write process. It goes up to 100% at a decent rate(says 12.17 seconds).

#70 65 days ago

If the GQ-4X seems to burn a chip really slow and/or all the bits not stay flipped typically means the Vpp is too low. Usually this means you are trying to burn a 25vpp chip at 21vpp but also could be you need an external power supply and not just USB power.

All the M2732 (M2716 too) out of china are marked with A suffix. A good portion of them are 25v chips and some even 12.5v. When you burn the 25v type at 21v expect GQ-4x to take way longer than usual and you may have to repeatedly burn it over and over to get all the bits to stay right. When I pick the right Vpp it burns quick and right the first time.

If you burn a 12.5vpp chip at 21, or 25vpp it gets killed.
If you are not sure Vpp of dodgy china remark start at 12.5 (2732B) and go up until it seems to work.

#71 65 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

If the GQ-4X seems to burn a chip really slow and/or all the bits not stay flipped typically means the Vpp is too low. Usually this means you are trying to burn a 25vpp chip at 21vpp but also could be you need an external power supply and not just USB power.
All the M2732 (M2716 too) out of china are marked with A suffix. A good portion of them are 25v chips and some even 12.5v. When you burn the 25v type at 21v expect GQ-4x to take way longer than usual and you may have to repeatedly burn it over and over to get all the bits to stay right. When I pick the right Vpp it burns quick and right the first time.
If you burn a 12.5vpp chip at 21, or 25vpp it gets killed.
If you are not sure Vpp of dodgy china remark start at 12.5 (2732B) and go up until it seems to work.

The chip I'm trying to burn is a TMS2532A-45JL. The other one(same exact chip), burned and verified with no issues. Same thing with the 2716 I burned, no issues. Both burned pretty fast too. So I tried to burn the same file that worked with the other 2532 and it still wouldn't burn. These were all done with a powered USB hub. I may have a power supply laying around here somewhere and have to look for it, but so far it's looking like the chip is bad

On one happy note: after I put in the 2 new flipper roms I burnt, my game now boots!

#72 65 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

The chip I'm trying to burn is a TMS2532A-45JL. The other one(same exact chip), burned and verified with no issues. Same thing with the 2716 I burned, no issues. Both burned pretty fast too. So I tried to burn the same file that worked with the other 2532 and it still wouldn't burn. These were all done with a powered USB hub. I may have a power supply laying around here somewhere and have to look for it, but so far it's looking like the chip is bad
On one happy note: after I put in the 2 new flipper roms I burnt, my game now boots!

probably just a bad EPROM if you can do other identical chips. Powered USB hub should be good enough as it is for the laptop I use to burn with. It has to boost 5v usb up to 25v for these old chips.

I have not had good luck reusing TMS2532. Even some that are working, I erase them, and then they refuse to take another burn. HN462532 has usually been more reliable to me for what its worth. I go with 2732 whenever possible, but not possible on system 7 mpu without cutting and jumping a few traces.

#73 65 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

probably just a bad EPROM if you can do other identical chips. Powered USB hub should be good enough as it is for the laptop I use to burn with. It has to boost 5v usb up to 25v for these old chips.
I have not had good luck reusing TMS2532. Even some that are working, I erase them, and then they refuse to take another burn. HN462532 has usually been more reliable to me for what its worth. I go with 2732 whenever possible, but not possible on system 7 mpu without cutting and jumping a few traces.

Thank you. Can you please point to a reliable source for the HN462532? Would appreciate it.

#74 64 days ago
Quoted from Talonslair:

Thank you. Can you please point to a reliable source for the HN462532? Would appreciate it.

Funkward Tech is usually a good source for obsolete eproms.

ebay.com link: HITACHI 462532 2532 HN462532G UV EPROM 32Kbit x 5PCS

#75 64 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Funkward Tech is usually a good source for obsolete eproms.
ebay.com link » Hitachi 462532 2532 Hn462532g Uv Eprom 32kbit X 5pcs

Thank you.

1 week later
#76 52 days ago

Created another quick test video using the pincoder adapter on a WMS 4 MPU (Flash). This is the LED, Blanking, CMOS19, RAM13, RAM16, and Displays tests

#77 52 days ago

I'd really love to see some videos using these to troubleshoot non-booting boards. I have a couple I would donate to the person who was willing to do them

#78 52 days ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I'd really love to see some videos using these to troubleshoot non-booting boards. I have a couple I would donate to the person who was willing to do them

Nice work Cheddar! Thank you! I've been struggling in my mind for a while on exactly how videos might be done to get the most usefullness out of them, and seeing your videos I think gives people a good idea of what they're looking for.

As far as the target audience goes, the user base is potentially quite wide, from a newcomer to an experienced tech. I think the focus should be geared slightly toward the newcomer.

From the adapter purchases and questions about the adapter thus far, I'm getting the idea that most have a machine or two collecting dust because they've been down for a long time, and they've no idea where to start to get them running again. So perhaps in addition to the bench-style videos you have done, we could create an introductory in-game video that starts from blowing the dust off and taking off the backglass to locating IC17, replacing it with the adapter, etc. This would allow them to be comfortable on what they do have.. a fully connected board, everything in its original place and condition.. Then they would not have to worry about how to re-create a bench power supply, and whether they have it connected properly etc.

We could then go up to 05-displays in the first video, as that is quick and will give them confidence that their machine is fairly healthy. I think the main thread/sequence of videos should be with a fully working machine, so that people know what to expect from each test. Once those videos are done, we could do individual repair videos on what to do if a particular test fails. Since this could be many reasons for some tests these videos would simply talk about what to look for and how to proceed, while showing probable failed parts etc.

What do you Cheddar, and everyone else following this thread think? If you're a newcomer, what kinds of questions are you hoping to find answers for in a video? What would the ideal video look like to you? Might as well make a video people end up feeling glad they watched

As far as troubleshooting a dead board (01b-bus, 01c-transceivers) that would be handy, and also require a little more depth, ie: may have to include a seque or two explaining tech details. I think doing a video like this, start to board finish, could very well turn into an entire "episode" that would probably require a lot of editing. Not saying it's a bad idea, I think it's a great idea, just that the final version would have to be shortened properly so that the viewer doesn't get sidelined by the resulting unneccesary details. And it would be fun to make too

I've a friend in town that does miraculous things with video and editing. I'll talk to him and see what the possibilities are.

Thanks again for your videos, I keep straying from them and it's good that you're on it

Again, all, please chime in so we can find out what kind of videos you're actually looking for

#79 52 days ago

Ps: Cheddar, Which and how many dead boards do you have?

#80 51 days ago

I spoke with Cheddar yesterday, and will try and contribute some videos, too. Glad to help where I can.

#81 51 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Nice work cheddar! Thank you! I've been struggling in my mind for a while on exactly how videos might be done to get the most usefullness out of them, and seeing your videos I think gives people a good idea of what they're looking for.
As far as the target audience goes, the user base is potentially quite wide, from a newcomer to an experienced tech. I think the focus should be geared slightly toward the newcomer.
From the adapter purchases and questions about the adapter thus far, I'm getting the idea that most have a machine or two collecting dust because they've been down for a long time, and they've no idea where to start to get them running again. So perhaps in addition to the bench-style videos you have done, we could create an introductory in-game video that starts from blowing the dust off and taking off the backglass to locating IC17, replacing it with the adapter, etc. This would allow them to be comfortable on what they do have.. a fully connected board, everything in its original place and condition.. Then they would not have to worry about how to re-create a bench power supply, and whether they have it connected properly etc.
We could then go up to 05-displays in the first video, as that is quick and will give them confidence that their machine is fairly healthy. I think the main thread/sequence of videos should be with a fully working machine, so that people know what to expect from each test. Once those videos are done, we could do individual repair videos on what to do if a particular test fails. Since this could be many reasons for some tests these videos would simply talk about what to look for and how to proceed, while showing probable failed parts etc.
What do you cheddar, and everyone else following this thread think? If you're a newcomer, what kinds of questions are you hoping to find answers for in a video? What would the ideal video look like to you? Might as well make a video people end up feeling glad they watched
As far as troubleshooting a dead board (01b-bus, 01c-transceivers) that would be handy, and also require a little more depth, ie: may have to include a seque or two explaining tech details. I think doing a video like this, start to board finish, could very well turn into an entire "episode" that would probably require a lot of editing. Not saying it's a bad idea, I think it's a great idea, just that the final version would have to be shortened properly so that the viewer doesn't get sidelined by the resulting unneccesary details. And it would be fun to make too
I've a friend in town that does miraculous things with video and editing. I'll talk to him and see what the possibilities are.
Thanks again for your videos, I keep straying from them and it's good that you're on it
Again, all, please chime in so we can find out what kind of videos you're actually looking for

After using the adapter to troubleshoot my boards, I believe a series of videos would be great. The videos from Cheddar were helpful as to what to look for for a successful test. But I think if you made some in depth step by step videos, that would really help out new, (and maybe old) troubleshooters. Videos about like what you mentioned and then some: how to orient and where to plug in the adapter, how to set the jumpers, what other connectors should be plugged/unplugged from your boards, what fuses should be removed/added during tests, what a successful/failed test looks like, what to do when a test fails...etc. For me, watching the videos and reading the text file included with the adapter got me pointed in the right direction. Once I was able to understand the 1st test and how it works, I was off and running with the rest of the tests. Your adapter was very useful and helped me get my machine back up and running.

#82 51 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Nice work cheddar! Thank you! I've been struggling in my mind for a while on exactly how videos might be done to get the most usefullness out of them, and seeing your videos I think gives people a good idea of what they're looking for.
As far as the target audience goes, the user base is potentially quite wide, from a newcomer to an experienced tech. I think the focus should be geared slightly toward the newcomer.
From the adapter purchases and questions about the adapter thus far, I'm getting the idea that most have a machine or two collecting dust because they've been down for a long time, and they've no idea where to start to get them running again. So perhaps in addition to the bench-style videos you have done, we could create an introductory in-game video that starts from blowing the dust off and taking off the backglass to locating IC17, replacing it with the adapter, etc. This would allow them to be comfortable on what they do have.. a fully connected board, everything in its original place and condition.. Then they would not have to worry about how to re-create a bench power supply, and whether they have it connected properly etc.
We could then go up to 05-displays in the first video, as that is quick and will give them confidence that their machine is fairly healthy. I think the main thread/sequence of videos should be with a fully working machine, so that people know what to expect from each test. Once those videos are done, we could do individual repair videos on what to do if a particular test fails. Since this could be many reasons for some tests these videos would simply talk about what to look for and how to proceed, while showing probable failed parts etc.
What do you cheddar, and everyone else following this thread think? If you're a newcomer, what kinds of questions are you hoping to find answers for in a video? What would the ideal video look like to you? Might as well make a video people end up feeling glad they watched
As far as troubleshooting a dead board (01b-bus, 01c-transceivers) that would be handy, and also require a little more depth, ie: may have to include a seque or two explaining tech details. I think doing a video like this, start to board finish, could very well turn into an entire "episode" that would probably require a lot of editing. Not saying it's a bad idea, I think it's a great idea, just that the final version would have to be shortened properly so that the viewer doesn't get sidelined by the resulting unneccesary details. And it would be fun to make too
I've a friend in town that does miraculous things with video and editing. I'll talk to him and see what the possibilities are.
Thanks again for your videos, I keep straying from them and it's good that you're on it
Again, all, please chime in so we can find out what kind of videos you're actually looking for

I'm in and willing to help. I could make a quick how to set up for testing video.

Quoted from pincoder:

Ps: cheddar, Which and how many dead boards do you have?

Just a couple but once a board is booting it can almost always be saved. If it doesn't boot it's just a brick to me and I'd like to add that knowledge

#83 51 days ago

Your contributions are much appreciated!! Thank you!

I think laying it all out like that is great..

Just thought of a few points worth mentioning in the video:

As far as non-booting in particular:
1 - The driver board does not have to be attached to run tests 01a through 05-displays.

2 - Disconnecting the driver board may help the boot succeed, If so the problem is on the driver board.

3 - Not all chips are suspect on a non-booting board - only the chips that are actually tied directly to the address and/or data bus. so assuming the CPU chip is okay, then RAM, 5101/CMOS, PIA's, transcievers, and even the other stock ROMs could be the culprit. Determining which one is the really fun part

4 - You can remove all ROM and RAM chips, including the 5101 if needed to run the 01a-leds test. Also applies to 01b-bus and 01c-transceivers.

5 - Having adequate +5V and +12V is imperative on the MPU and the driver board if connected. Reset circuit must also be functioning properly (aka reset pin on CPU chip starts out LOW and goes HIGH after half a second or so).

6 - Batteries do not need to be installed.

7 - Illustrate where the tip of the logic probe should be connected, If the board in question does not have LEDs installed. Of course, also show where to connect the black and red alligator clips of the probe to the MPU board. On a system 6, TP9 is red, TP10 is black.

8 - Testing a non-booting game for all system boards 3-6a are generally the same. System 7 just has the segment display for results (with the funky characters for PASS/FAIL).

9 - Jumper settings on the MPU board need to be verified. In addition, If their MPU board has been upgraded (say from a 6 to a 7, etc) the selected group of Adapter tests should be chosen based on the board revision it is "emulating". So if a system 7 board is installed (and jumpered correctly) in a system 6 game, the Pincoder sys346 group of tests should be used for troubleshooting.

It should also be noted that if the driver board is connected at the 40 pin, and for some reason the rest of the driverboard connections are to be removed, (aka on the bench) 2J8 (Logic power bus input) should remain connected. One must also be sure (at this point) that the 40 pin be in working condition. I usually use a magnifying glass and a flashlight to inspect the condition of each pin and its connection while the driver board is connected - at least to start with.

As far as fuses go.. some games of course immediately lock on one or more solenoids when the williams roms are booted. this SHOULD NOT be the case when running 01a-leds through 09-lamps as those tests disable the solenoids and flippers by setting the PIAs to a particular configuration. So it should be safe to leave all fuses in. However, if they still lock on while running those tests then there is an issue with driverboard circuitry that is AFTER the PIA, or perhaps improper connections under the playfield. In this case the corresponding fuses can be removed to allow troubleshooting to continue.

I'm sure you have other points you want to add, and that's the beauty of having other people involved

Thank you again for putting this together!

ps: I think it would be best to have all of the videos in one youtube account/channel, so that we dont have end up with a million links to give out. Cheddar if you want to maintain that channel, that's cool with me, but if you'd rather not I can create one and we can move things there

#84 50 days ago

As requested here is a video of a bench setup and running the first test on a williams system 7 board.

#85 49 days ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

As requested here is a video of a bench setup and running the first test on a williams system 7 board.

That's great! Thanks Cheddar!

#86 49 days ago

Very good stuff...im digging the videos

1 week later
#87 42 days ago

I received my pincoder today. It was packaged well. The board seems to be assembled well. With everything disconnected except the displays, I was quickly able to run through tests 1-6 by watching the video Cheddar made for YouTube. My board failed test #2 for blanking. Both leds appear to light but the test point doesn’t go high (I’m checking that at pin 37 on the interconect, is that correct?). PIA1 pin 4, pins 10, 9, and 8 on IC7, and pin 12 on IC23 are all not pulsing either. According to the notes for this test, I should replace PIA1, IC7, and Q5. Am I reading that right?

The 40 pin connector is newer but was installed by the previous owner. The board has been converted to three ROMs and was working and then all of a sudden it wasn't as far as I've been told. Occasionally, it will go into a really weak attract mode and will start a game but even when it does, only some of the feature lights light. Then I think it tilts and ends the game shortly after starting. Most of the time it just shows the game number and ROM version on the #1 display.

EDIT: I pulled the batteries and tried test #2 again. This time it passed but the game still won’t boot. I also notice that the newer (not scanbe) socket at IC17 that was holding the pincoder adapter is now not wanting to take the eprom as tightly as it was before. I’m going to replace this socket and have a look at some other things and report back tomorrow.
23FAC8AC-9236-4DAA-8591-56694DD3B7B2 (resized).jpeg

#88 41 days ago

Glad you got your adapter and thanks for buying one

Having a good ic17 socket is imperative. After you change the socket, use one of the sockets included with the adapter between the board's socket and the adapter itself. This will prevent the board's socket pins from getting stretched.

Then rerun the blanking test and check for changes at the locations you have described.

Also, what game is this for?

#89 41 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Glad you got your adapter and thanks for buying one
Having a good ic17 socket is imperative. After you change the socket, use one of the sockets included with the adapter between the board's socket and the adapter itself. This will prevent the board's socket pins from getting stretched.
Then rerun the blanking test and check for changes at the locations you have described.
Also, what game is this for?

It's for a Flash. I tried the sockets but they don't stay put. As soon as I let them go, they fall out as if the legs aren't long enough to actually seat into the existing socket.

#90 41 days ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

It's for a Flash. I tried the sockets but they don't stay put. As soon as I let them go, they fall out as if the legs aren't long enough to actually seat into the existing socket.

That's rather odd. You could replace the IC17 socket with one that I shipped with the adapter..

#91 41 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

That's rather odd. You could replace the IC17 socket with one that I shipped with the adapter..

I replaced the socket for IC17. It’s still doing the same thing. When running the blanking test, TP4 starts low at power on, then immediately goes high, and stays high. Pin 4 on PIA1 pulses. Pins 8, 9, and 10 on IC7 pulse. Pin 12 on IC23 starts high at power on but then shows nothing at all, neither high nor low.

#92 41 days ago

I'm a little unclear.. according to your first post: "PIA1 pin 4, pins 10, 9, and 8 on IC7, and pin 12 on IC23 are all not pulsing".
Your last post indicates "It’s still doing the same thing" yet also: "Pins 8, 9, and 10 on IC7 pulse".

If the latter post is true then the blanking test is succeeding. To be sure, you can run the 01a-leds test again and take measurements on the same points. The leds test does not pulse PIA1 pin 4, and hence down the rest of the trail to IC7 pin 6. In this case, the blanking signal should be LOW.

To summarize:
- TP4 should be LOW when running 01a-leds.
- TP4 should be HIGH (and stay HIGH once it goes HIGH) when running 02-blanking.

If both of those are true then your blanking circuit is fine. If not, then replace Q5 and possibly IC23.

Also, 1J1 pin 37 (40 pin connector) is the same as TP4, and it's important that you see the blanking signal carry through there to the driver board.

As per your previous message "The board has been converted to three ROMs and was working and then all of a sudden it wasn't as far as I've been told. Occasionally, it will go into a really weak attract mode and will start a game but even when it does, only some of the feature lights light. Then I think it tilts and ends the game shortly after starting"..

- What do you mean by "weak attract mode?". You may have a power supply problem. Ensure you have at least 4.9 volts on 1J2 pins 4,5,6 and at least 12 volts on 1J2 pin 9. This is the required power to the MPU board. Power for displays and lamps are from another circuit and I wouldn't worry about them just yet - wait until you get to the displays and lamps test for now.

#93 41 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

I'm a little unclear.. according to your first post: "PIA1 pin 4, pins 10, 9, and 8 on IC7, and pin 12 on IC23 are all not pulsing".
Your last post indicates "It’s still doing the same thing" yet also: "Pins 8, 9, and 10 on IC7 pulse".
If the latter post is true then the blanking test is succeeding. To be sure, you can run the 01a-leds test again and take measurements on the same points. The leds test does not pulse PIA1 pin 4, and hence down the rest of the trail to IC7 pin 6. In this case, the blanking signal should be LOW.
To summarize:
- TP4 should be LOW when running 01a-leds.
- TP4 should be HIGH (and stay HIGH once it goes HIGH) when running 02-blanking.
If both of those are true then your blanking circuit is fine. If not, then replace Q5 and possibly IC23.
Also, 1J1 pin 37 (40 pin connector) is the same as TP4, and it's important that you see the blanking signal carry through there to the driver board.
As per your previous message "The board has been converted to three ROMs and was working and then all of a sudden it wasn't as far as I've been told. Occasionally, it will go into a really weak attract mode and will start a game but even when it does, only some of the feature lights light. Then I think it tilts and ends the game shortly after starting"..
- What do you mean by "weak attract mode?". You may have a power supply problem. Ensure you have at least 4.9 volts on 1J2 pins 4,5,6 and at least 12 volts on 1J2 pin 9. This is the required power to the MPU board. Power for displays and lamps are from another circuit and I wouldn't worry about them just yet - wait until you get to the displays and lamps test for now.

I edited the first post at the end. I originally ran test #2 with your individual ROMs before the adapter arrived. At that time, I also checked the PIA and ICs. The first part of that post was what I was seeing at first but then, when I used the adapter, something changed and pin 37 (which I thought was TP4 by the way, apparently I got bad info) started to respond appropriately to the first part of test #2. I didn’t think to check the PIA or any other the ICs again until I had already posted. When I thought about it, I pulled the batteries, checked those pins again, and saw different results. Test #1 passes every time but I haven't checked the PIA or IC pins during test #1.

In regards to the weak attract mode, I mean one or two of the feature lights work and a couple lamps in the backbox will flash in attract mode, when I can get that far. I really have to work for it to get it to even do that. The lamp test on the adapter lights almost all of the feature lights. Most of the time, the machine barely does anything when first turned on. The GI circuit comes on and the two LEDs on the mpu flash once. Nothing else works. If I turn it off and back on one time, it will then also produce the startup sound and will continue to make that sound at power up until I let it sit for a few minutes, then I have to cycle the power one time again. Sometimes the displays work fully, sometimes they show a few digits, sometimes they show the ROM number, sometimes they flash at first but then go blank. The display test passes every time. If I keep cycling the power, eventually one or two feature lights will come on for attract mode but it’s a rare occurrence. When it will go into that weak attract mode, pressing the diagnostic button on the mpu gets the top LED to light and stay on, otherwise pressing that diagnostic button gets no response. If I mess with the start button as I’m cycling the power, I can eventually get a game started but it always makes the tilt sound and dies in the middle of the first ball.

There is always about 4.95v and 11.95v at the connector on the MPU every time I turn it on. The power supply seems to be pretty solid.

Sorry for the confusion.

#94 40 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

To be sure, you can run the 01a-leds test again and take measurements on the same points. The leds test does not pulse PIA1 pin 4, and hence down the rest of the trail to IC7 pin 6. In this case, the blanking signal should be LOW.
To summarize:
- TP4 should be LOW when running 01a-leds.

pincoder I tried this and it appears my adapter gave up the ghost. With the adapter set to test 1 and the LEDs alternating accordingly, the moment I touched PIA1 pin 4 with the logic probe, a game sound came from the machine, the top LED locked off, and the bottom LED locked on. I shut the machine off and turned it back on, the machine emits a different game sound, and now the top LED locks on. Setting the adapter to any other setting yields the same results. I have the positive clip of the logic probe on the bottom lead of C23 and the negative clip on the top lead. Everything on the adapter was working until I touched pin 4 on IC18 while running test 1a-leds.

Ive even tried running clear_cmos. It ran as designed but tests 1-6 don’t function at all anymore.

Putting the game ROM back in the boards puts the game back to the same state it was in before I got the adapter. Not sure what happened.

Any advice?

#95 40 days ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

I tried this and it appears my adapter gave up the ghost. With the adapter set to test 1 and the LEDs alternating accordingly, the moment I touched PIA1 pin 4 with the logic probe, a game sound came from the machine, the top LED locked off, and the bottom LED locked on. I shut the machine off and turned it back on, the machine emits a different game sound, and now the top LED locks on. Setting the adapter to any other setting yields the same results. I have the positive clip of the logic probe on the bottom lead of C23 and the negative clip on the top lead. Everything on the adapter was working until I touched pin 4 on IC18 while running test 1a-leds.
Ive even tried running clear_cmos. It ran as designed but tests 1-6 don’t function at all anymore.
Putting the game ROM back in the boards puts the game back to the same state it was in before I got the adapter. Not sure what happened.
Any advice?

Looking at the schematic for system 4 MPUs it looks like the positive lead on C23 is the top lead and ground is the bottom lead.

Fix this, remove the driver board and the other roms and try it again

#96 40 days ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Looking at the schematic for system 4 MPUs it looks like the positive lead on C23 is the top lead and ground is the bottom lead.
Fix this, remove the driver board and the other roms and try it again

Cheddar you gave me this file. Bottom lead shows to be positive and top lead negative. This is the way I’ve been running all of the other tests successfully. Up until now.

B5549349-9494-4C52-9D95-ACFB005A18F8 (resized).png

#97 40 days ago

can you post a pic of C23?

#98 40 days ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Fix this, remove the driver board and the other roms and try it again

I removed the other ROMs and cleared the cmos and the adapter seems to be working again.

#99 40 days ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

can you post a pic of C23?

Cheddar Here you go. Bottom lead is tied to 5V and top lead is tied to ground.

7B770EC1-FB75-4A18-988D-3BB29782B9BF (resized).jpeg

#100 40 days ago

This has me concerned (From the Flash Schematics). It appears there may be 2 different layouts for this board (although this one has test points on it so it's not a system 4).pasted_image (resized).png

Quoted from johnboy1313:

Here you go. Bottom lead is tied to 5V and top lead is tied to ground.
[quoted image]

Can you remove the probes so we can see the markings on the board?

Sorry this happened. I'll put a note on the graphic to verify the markings on the board

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