(Topic ID: 272899)

New! Pincoder Adapter


By pincoder

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 77 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by Cheddar
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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There are 77 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 29 days ago
Quoted from Talonslair:

I received my burner today. I'm not sure when I'll get the chance to check the rom. Been busy lately starting a new job. I'm probably going to order a new chip and program it fresh,(if the old one is bad) and keep the Pincoder Adapter as is. It really is a good tool to have for troubleshooting. I've also had a sound issue where one of the words is garbled during speech. It is weird. When it is a damp day it's garbled. When it is a dry day it's fine. I'm thinking it may be a socket issue but at least now I'll be able to test the sound rom with my burner. I appreciate all of your help with this and am grateful for your contribution to the hobby creating this wonderful tool. Thanks for the link too.

I am glad you're finding the Adapter useful Let me know how everything turns out, including the sound issue - which reminds me: I've still got to write a test ROM for the sound card itself. So many things to do

#52 27 days ago

After fighting to get the sticker off, the chip isn't even an eprom. I can't find a listing in my GQ 4x4 for this prom. It is a MOS 5341-09554 4780. On the bottom it says Korea 4863(sorry for the crappy pics). Any advice? Thanks.

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#53 27 days ago

It's likely a masked rom and that # is the williams part #. Just burn a new eprom and replace, making sure your board is jumpered for the correct eprom.

#54 26 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

It's likely a masked rom and that # is the williams part #. Just burn a new eprom and replace, making sure your board is jumpered for the correct eprom.

Thanks. I'm not sure about jumper settings, but I'll look into it. Does anyone know if this is a reputable place for eproms: https://www.twistywristarcade.com/eproms/118-2532-eprom.html ?

#55 26 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

Thanks. I'm not sure about jumper settings, but I'll look into it. Does anyone know if this is a reputable place for eproms: https://www.twistywristarcade.com/eproms/118-2532-eprom.html ?

I've never dealt with them before, sorry. Couldn't hurt to try them out.

#56 26 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

Does anyone know if this is a reputable place for eproms: https://www.twistywristarcade.com/eproms/118-2532-eprom.html ?

Never bought eproms from them but have purchased other things from them over the years.

#57 26 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

Does anyone know if this is a reputable place for eproms: https://www.twistywristarcade.com/eproms/118-2532-eprom.html ?

It’s legit. I highly recommend them! I have bought multiple parts from him including Eproms.

#58 26 days ago

Thanks for the replies.

1 week later
#59 19 days ago

Small update: I was able to verify check the 2 game roms as they are eproms and they came out ok. I couldn't verify check the 2 flipper roms as they are masked roms and are not listed in the GQ-4x4 database. I was also able to verify check the sound rom and 3 out of 4 speech roms. One of the speech roms has a leg that is broken off,(I think it's still in the socket. The sticker on it says "5T-5002" and the file is "Speech 5.532". So I believe I need two 2532 eproms, one for the speech rom and one for the flipper rom and one 2716 eprom for the other flipper rom, and a few sockets just in case. Correct?

#60 19 days ago

Correct. You can test those masked roms as 2716 if they are in 2k sockets.

#61 19 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Correct. You can test those masked roms as 2716 if they are in 2k sockets.

Would it be this one?

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#62 18 days ago

Since you are just reading the ROM you can use any of the 2716 settings. When you go to write a 2716 try the lowest programming voltage first. Then see if it reads in correctly. If not, try writing at the next higher voltage.

#63 16 days ago

Hi everyone, I got some new TDA2003 amplifier chips in today and thought it would be nice to include a free one with each adapter order from now until Feb 28th 2021. While supplies last of course. These are the amplifier chips used in Williams 3-7 games (and quite likely others, including other pinball manufacturers of the era).

You can find more about it here:

https://pincoder.ca/index.php/2021/02/09/free-tda2003-audio-amplifier-chip/

It never hurts to have a spare chip on hand!

If I'd had them sooner I would have included them with past orders - Sorry if you missed getting one. Orders that went out today already have the bonus amplifier chip included.

#64 13 days ago

I received my eproms. I was able to write the 2 flipper roms successfully(1 to the 2532 and 1 to the 2716), but was not able to write the speech to the other 2532. During the write cycle, it goes all the way to 100% and then fails right after during the verify process(screenshot below). I've tried to put the eprom in the eraser for roughly a half an hour. It shows it is blank but I still can't write to it. Any suggestions? Thanks.

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#65 13 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

Ok. Thanks for the reply and your help. I did order a burner(GQ-4x4) and eraser. It is supposed to arrive sometime tomorrow. I'll at least be able to check the roms with it. The rom in IC17 that I mentioned earlier looks suspect because it was repaired. I don't believe the sockets are scanbe, but I'll check again to be sure. I did make it through all of the other tests. It felt great to see the displays come to life. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I did not read all of your posts but keep in mind WMS really screwed up on the labeling of system 7 ROM chips around Black Knight era. The stickers almost never match what the board layout / ROM dump labeling. I forget which is mixed up, but at least two usually are. So if you have one not verifying right check the data against other ROM images.

#66 13 days ago

Also, some ROMs have to be written to several times before they will verify. I'm not sure why but it has worked for me at least a few times.

#67 13 days ago

Some chips have different response times and signal requirements in order to successfully write a byte to an address withing the EPROM. If your programmer has any settings for timings or retry values when writing to the chip, you could try adjusting the values such that the writes are tried more times before giving up, and/or holding the value on the bus longer before it moves on to another address.

As well, as pinball_postal mentioned, you may have to write multiple times before it succeeds for every address on the chip: You should only erase the chip under the UV light *once* - if you change the image you want to write. In other words, erase it only once, and keep writing the same image to the chip multiple times until it gets all the way through.

I do know the older chips are much more sensitive to timings.. I've been writing code for the Pincoder Controller to allow it to write to these old chips and some locations in the chips take many more attempts to write (like 50-100 over a few seconds) before the write to a single location will succeed. Are you noticing the write process appearing to stall and continue before it gets to the verify process?

#68 12 days ago
Quoted from Talonslair:

It shows it is blank but I still can't write to it. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Means the chip is bad.
Try dropping speed to "-2", and try "Double Write". If it still throws an error after that - chip is bad. Toss it, get another.

#69 12 days ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Some chips have different response times and signal requirements in order to successfully write a byte to an address withing the EPROM. If your programmer has any settings for timings or retry values when writing to the chip, you could try adjusting the values such that the writes are tried more times before giving up, and/or holding the value on the bus longer before it moves on to another address.
As well, as pinball_postal mentioned, you may have to write multiple times before it succeeds for every address on the chip: You should only erase the chip under the UV light *once* - if you change the image you want to write. In other words, erase it only once, and keep writing the same image to the chip multiple times until it gets all the way through.
I do know the older chips are much more sensitive to timings.. I've been writing code for the Pincoder Controller to allow it to write to these old chips and some locations in the chips take many more attempts to write (like 50-100 over a few seconds) before the write to a single location will succeed. Are you noticing the write process appearing to stall and continue before it gets to the verify process?

Thanks for the tips everyone. I'll keep trying to write.
As for the process stalling, I don't see any slow down during the write process. It goes up to 100% at a decent rate(says 12.17 seconds).

#70 12 days ago

If the GQ-4X seems to burn a chip really slow and/or all the bits not stay flipped typically means the Vpp is too low. Usually this means you are trying to burn a 25vpp chip at 21vpp but also could be you need an external power supply and not just USB power.

All the M2732 (M2716 too) out of china are marked with A suffix. A good portion of them are 25v chips and some even 12.5v. When you burn the 25v type at 21v expect GQ-4x to take way longer than usual and you may have to repeatedly burn it over and over to get all the bits to stay right. When I pick the right Vpp it burns quick and right the first time.

If you burn a 12.5vpp chip at 21, or 25vpp it gets killed.
If you are not sure Vpp of dodgy china remark start at 12.5 (2732B) and go up until it seems to work.

#71 12 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

If the GQ-4X seems to burn a chip really slow and/or all the bits not stay flipped typically means the Vpp is too low. Usually this means you are trying to burn a 25vpp chip at 21vpp but also could be you need an external power supply and not just USB power.
All the M2732 (M2716 too) out of china are marked with A suffix. A good portion of them are 25v chips and some even 12.5v. When you burn the 25v type at 21v expect GQ-4x to take way longer than usual and you may have to repeatedly burn it over and over to get all the bits to stay right. When I pick the right Vpp it burns quick and right the first time.
If you burn a 12.5vpp chip at 21, or 25vpp it gets killed.
If you are not sure Vpp of dodgy china remark start at 12.5 (2732B) and go up until it seems to work.

The chip I'm trying to burn is a TMS2532A-45JL. The other one(same exact chip), burned and verified with no issues. Same thing with the 2716 I burned, no issues. Both burned pretty fast too. So I tried to burn the same file that worked with the other 2532 and it still wouldn't burn. These were all done with a powered USB hub. I may have a power supply laying around here somewhere and have to look for it, but so far it's looking like the chip is bad

On one happy note: after I put in the 2 new flipper roms I burnt, my game now boots!

#72 12 days ago
Quoted from Talon:

The chip I'm trying to burn is a TMS2532A-45JL. The other one(same exact chip), burned and verified with no issues. Same thing with the 2716 I burned, no issues. Both burned pretty fast too. So I tried to burn the same file that worked with the other 2532 and it still wouldn't burn. These were all done with a powered USB hub. I may have a power supply laying around here somewhere and have to look for it, but so far it's looking like the chip is bad
On one happy note: after I put in the 2 new flipper roms I burnt, my game now boots!

probably just a bad EPROM if you can do other identical chips. Powered USB hub should be good enough as it is for the laptop I use to burn with. It has to boost 5v usb up to 25v for these old chips.

I have not had good luck reusing TMS2532. Even some that are working, I erase them, and then they refuse to take another burn. HN462532 has usually been more reliable to me for what its worth. I go with 2732 whenever possible, but not possible on system 7 mpu without cutting and jumping a few traces.

#73 12 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

probably just a bad EPROM if you can do other identical chips. Powered USB hub should be good enough as it is for the laptop I use to burn with. It has to boost 5v usb up to 25v for these old chips.
I have not had good luck reusing TMS2532. Even some that are working, I erase them, and then they refuse to take another burn. HN462532 has usually been more reliable to me for what its worth. I go with 2732 whenever possible, but not possible on system 7 mpu without cutting and jumping a few traces.

Thank you. Can you please point to a reliable source for the HN462532? Would appreciate it.

#74 12 days ago
Quoted from Talonslair:

Thank you. Can you please point to a reliable source for the HN462532? Would appreciate it.

Funkward Tech is usually a good source for obsolete eproms.

ebay.com link: HITACHI 462532 2532 HN462532G UV EPROM 32Kbit x 5PCS

#75 12 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Funkward Tech is usually a good source for obsolete eproms.
ebay.com link » Hitachi 462532 2532 Hn462532g Uv Eprom 32kbit X 5pcs

Thank you.

1 week later
#76 3 hours ago

Created another quick test video using the pincoder adapter on a WMS 4 MPU (Flash). This is the LED, Blanking, CMOS19, RAM13, RAM16, and Displays tests

#77 3 hours ago

I'd really love to see some videos using these to troubleshoot non-booting boards. I have a couple I would donate to the person who was willing to do them

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