Good episode as always. Funny that after playing BM66 a little at the Nashville show I also left sort of wanting one. Might have to pull the trigger on one soon, you need to come around on it ZMeny, all the cool kids are....
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1 week later
Fun show, Greg needs to play some Aerosmith with some people that know what they are doing though. While it's lacking on shots it has really good scoring strategy and also give you the option to complete a ramp shot or the lock shot if either are lit for a mode or if lock is lit. Maybe I missed it as I was working while listening but otherwise Emperor Ming is pretty pissed about his lack of inclusion. Some good ones on your list, I think WOZ is rated way to high though and TBL should have been on there.
Quoted from jar155:I have too many questions to ask. Never mind.
And yet you found time to post that. It's just the ones I like best, doesn't mean you will agree.
Quoted from jar155:No, I'm not hating. I just started going one by one and realized it was going to be a huge wall of text. But we can address two of them. Aerosmith and GoT? Like, how do you enjoy them enough to see them make a top 10?
AS has great scoring and mode advancement chances by using the upper playfield as you complete elevator locks. You can risk timing out a mode while working on 2x, you can get 2x ready and save it for later, you can lock a ball in the toy box or complete a lit mode shot at the toy box kicker, or you can complete a lit mode shot at the ramp. It's a great tool for advancing modes with a very hard to hit ramp on the premium/le. It's really fast and the ball is not up there long so it doesn't slow down play much at all.
For GOT I just like that it has 2 full sized flippers and the little loop shot on the left if fun to hit. It definitely needs some code work to make the castle completion more important though.
You also have to factor in that I just pulled those off the top of my head. If I studied the list of games with upper playfields games 5-10 would likely be very different.
Quoted from OldSchoolBlood:Big props on Shadow being #1....love that game. But, how could White Water not even make the list? That easily could have taken the top spot IMO.
Forgot about that one. Another great upper playfield.
Quoted from Sammy31:It may be fun but it's not really a playfield (no stand ups, no inserts...). More of an upper level shot like No Fear...
I would disagree, it is literally a big wooden playfield with 2 shots and while it doesn't have many inserts it does have bulbs to tell you what to shoot to start a mode or advance next which serve the same purpose as insert.
Quoted from delt31:No that would break the immersion that you are ripley!! Zach - it's time to start believing!
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Ha ha Delt I agree.
You guys do not really believe that do you? If you were playing the game as Ripley when you beat a mode or progress through certain areas you should be responding to the other characters in the movie as Ripley. For whatever reason they couldn't get the license and that does take away from the game some. It would be like playing IJ and not having Indy on the playfield or his call outs and saying, well you are playing as Indy so it's fine.
It doesn't kill the game by any means but it's definitely not a positive. I'm with Zach on this one. Get the full license or don't mess with it.
Quoted from delt31:I completely believe it. It feels very natural. I'm an owner so talking from experience. Not sure if you've played for an extensive period of time but once you do you might understand
I've got maybe 15 or so plays on it so not a lot. I'm not saying that their approach doesn't work. They did the best the could to implement the game without Ripley. It's a big missing component for me though. A lot of people probably won't care but sounds and full character licensing is what can make a game great. For the price of new games I shouldn't have to settle for missing elements of the movie. Just my opinion and that along with price is why I'm not getting a POTC or gotg either.
3 weeks later
Quoted from DEN:Love watching your shows, hope you soon will review classics like, Embryon, Fathom, Seawitch, Xenon or an Embryon
I like your style. An all Embryon this or that episode.
Embryon activate!!!!
Quoted from ZMeny:You guys really think Greg would be able to get through an embyron review without giggling or doing something inappropriate to mid playfield?
What's so funny about pounding 2 balls deep into the mid playfield area?????
Quoted from Ericc123:Absolutely nothing, why what have you heard???
Not sure, other then Greg giggles when 2 balls get pounded up a triangle shaped area to hit targets deep within.
If there's a better way to hatch sexy already developed female alien embryos I'd love to hear it.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Darscot:I got a game on Houdini at the Tacoma show and put a few games on Alien at Flipout. Houdini felt way more polished fast and fun. Alien isn’t bad but it’s very utilitarian and plays like a wide body and not a good wide body like Dialed In. I would put Houdini ahead of Aliens in pretty much all categories. Maybe it’s too early to call reliability and construction but Alien clearly stumbled out of the gate.
Well most standard body games play like good wide bodies 
Let Zack enjoy his new game. New pinball is always a great thing.
Really nicely done review. The interviews with AP members were great. Other manufacturers should take note as this is the best new release review that's been done so far and is likely to help AP move some games.
I think Houdini looks very interesting and I may get one at some point. It's a super strong offering from a new company.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Who-Dey:Zach i have two or three more games to complete my collection so i am down now to themes that blow me away.....dream themes. Batman is a dream theme for me and is sounding better every day. Heres my thoughts on what may be coming.
Iron Maiden: Not a dream theme but i seen them in concert and i think this could be a cool game, and if the rumors i am hearing are true i think this could be very very awesome. A slightly possible buy for me.
Deadpool: im sure it would be good and i know alot of people like the theme but i can take it leave it personally. The theme just isnt good enough for me to buy personally.
Jurassic Park: I really hope this game happens and i love the theme and would be very very interested in buying.
Elvira 3: Dream theme and a must buy unless they really screw it up somehow.
Munsters: Dream theme and another must buy providing its good.
I've never got caught up in the theme. It's either a great game with good code, good art, good layout and good theme implementation or it's not. Chasing themes is what ends up getting people in trouble with games.
BM66 has turned into a very solid game. Not the best shooter by any means but the code feels similar to MB with all of the added code that people would want from MB to keep it more interesting. It's fun and the theme is well implemented and it has a few things code wise that are unique to it. Not sure if it will be a keeper for me but I'm having fun with it at the moment.
Quoted from delt31:Anyway we can just get audio of the show?
= I'm tired of Greg and Zack's ugly faces..... 
1 month later
Finally got a moment to watch this one. The production quality has really improved from the earlier shows. Great work Zack and Greg.
1 week later
Good show but you guys really need to find a better vet if your cat is awake for that.....
Art is always subjective but I think this is by far ZY's best work with a pinball machine. I'm not an IM fan but he killed it and I prefer this style and the more neutral colors with some splashes of bright colors compared to a game like GB which was just way too much for me. Anytime they find a way to have less green, purple, and pink then GB I'm going to be good with that. As for the POTC toy removals it's really their own fault for once again revealing a machine 8 months before it starts to ship. I think people are over reacting but this is what happens when you give people nearly a year to second guess a $9500-$12500 purchase. New things come along and people are not going to need much of a reason at all to forget why they were so excited about it in the first place.
3 weeks later
Got a chance to watch most of the new episode last night. Fun show, can't say we agreed on many though lol.
Stern #1 ACDC
JJP #1 WOZ
Spooky #1 TNA
B/W #1 CFTBL
Sega #1 Baywatch
Capcom #1 Pinball Magic
Data East #1 TFTC but I don't particularly like any of them
Gottlieb #1 Joker Poker
System 11 #1 Taxi
1979-1982 #1 Flash Gordon
EM #1 Centigrade 37
Quoted from Darscot:I was with you on why you move Pins, except for that dog of a Star Wars in the background. Did that come back in or have you kept that all along?
Star wars is a killer game in my opinion. No game is for everyone but it's about as far from a dog as they come. Awesome game with very unique code.
Quoted from ZMeny:40x is silly. 4x max on pinball is all you need. Takes away from the sport of pinball and makes it more a board game.
Quoted from delt31:40X is nonsense. Agreed. Just one of many bad decisions that ruins that game.
It's not really like 40x at all. People that say this don't really understand the rules imo. You can start pretty much every plunge at 5x and most play is done in the 5-10x range so 40x is more like 4x-8x and everytime the counter is running out you risk draining trying to continue and build the multiplier.
Quoted from ZMeny:That would have been well worth it for video!!!
Yeah but jg, why get a multiplier on a plunge?! Multipliers should be earned (and should be damn tough to get) and scores are balanced when capped at 2x-4x
Why, because that's what every other game does? You can play 200 other games like that. It's about time someone started taking chances and doing new inventive things with code. People complain about copy and paste code, but they also complain about anything different.
Quoted from ZMeny:They are damn nice aren’t they
PM me your number or shoot me a text 8124579711
Different is great, I.E. rules on AMH or Houdini, but exploitation of scores decreases the appeal to me as a player. I can get through the quest of that game, control better and longer, and end up with 1/2 the score of someone focusing on multipliers. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter because I don’t play in comps, but I’d like to see more champion/initial entries for things like Wizard mode in fastest time, or most combos, or most spinner hits, or least switch hits for certain important modes, or most killed walkers.
I can definitely see why tourney and league players love it though so I’m not saying it’s a dealbreaker, just a major turnoff and unbalanced feature that takes away from the machine
They are damn nice aren’t theyPM me your number or shoot me a text 8124579711
Different is great, I.E. rules on AMH or Houdini, but exploitation of scores decreases the appeal to me as a player. I can get through the quest of that game, control better and longer, and end up with 1/2 the score of someone focusing on multipliers. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter because I don’t play in comps, but I’d like to see more champion/initial entries for things like Wizard mode in fastest time, or most combos, or most spinner hits, or least switch hits for certain important modes, or most killed walkers.
I can definitely see why tourney and league players love it though so I’m not saying it’s a dealbreaker, just a major turnoff and unbalanced feature that takes away from the machine overall
And someone that focuses on the quest and the multipliers will destroy both of you. It's just another layer to add more to the game. It's only unbalanced if you suck at it. Everyone has the same choices to make and the same options with the multipliers.
Quoted from delt31:I agree that we need more creative code but new for the same of new doesn't help if it doesn't make sense. Plunging for a mp doesn't make sense.
You have several things to pick from as a start bonus. Why doesn't it make sense?
Quoted from delt31:I just think it should be earned. That's a core principle that shouldn't be changed just to be "new"
Just my opinion. I rather earn
Then pick the tie fighters and earn your multiplier. Often the increased multiplier start is not the best choice anyway.
The thing I've noticed the most with people that complain about SW is that it wasn't what they expected or that they don't like the multipliers. Every person that I've played with in person that said they don't like the multipliers sucked something terrible at using them. Maybe some people just will never like them which is cool. But I would recommend everyone really work at practicing them before you decide for sure.
Quoted from ZMeny:You may be right, hell I enjoy the button mashing tie fighters now and I hated that at first. But I don’t think the multiplier opinion will change.
Really practice at it. You may be surprised, you may always hate it.
Quoted from iceman44:Dwight isn’t the most creative on code.
He hits it SDTM
Lyman is the code genius
Both are very good and both are very different which is great for pinball. No reason to have to pick sides.
Quoted from Darscot:For me the issue with Star Wars is it such a score heavy game and so weak on the journey. I love the code in ACDC because you can play for score but for guys like me I can go in the journey. Working my way through the jukebox and all the modes. Star Wars just never feels like an adventure and for me,with that theme, it's unforgivable.
Clearly guys in pinball love to play for points but I personally think it's the wrong direction. Long term to keep the industry growing they are going to need to trend more in the direction of video games. More collection, quests and story. I would love a pinball machine that specific shot combinations open a special shot that you hit to collect. The game is scored not based on points but modes collected, secret shots discovered, speed completed.
A leaderboard that first place can be a guy that exploits a mode for score has no interest to me. I would love first place to be the guy that can complete every mode in Lord of the Rings in X time using Y balls and discovered Z secrets.
I couldn't disagree more with this. People that want to play video game will just play a video game. Some of you guys act like pinball didn't exist before wizard modes and games that require 60 minutes to get close a wizard mode. Pinball has always been about the art, physically interacting with the ball, and most of all, about scoring points. It is a niche market that cannot compete with video games and needs to stay true to what it is. There have already been several tries at getting pinball machines more like video games and all have been major flops.
I enjoy the deep games and respect them but I don't have the time or desire the keep going on the same quest/journey over and over for the rest of my life. You can only hear a story so many times before you just don't really care to hear it anymore.
Quoted from ZMeny:I’m not looking to play video games, they are boring. Apples and oranges. Plus, pinball became great in the 90s, before that, multiball made it great, before that, spinners and drops. Journey doesn’t mean long games. Hell, look at TWD, I feel like I’m playing something that matters on that one. Conversely, many Sega games have modes but they are so stupid I don’t feel like I’m playing for a reason. JG your video games/pinball analogy is like me saying if your chasing points why not just play Panchinko.
Funny that you said that. I would probably take a multiplayer game on a panchinko or bingo style machine over a multiplayer game on any of the journey type pinball machines that you are talking about. There's nothing more boring then playing TH or LOTR on multiplayer. My ball is over, time to go have 7 beers, let me know when I'm back up if I'm not passed out first.
Quoted from Darscot:You point makes perfect sense, the current multiplayer on a journey style game isn't ideal. Again why not borrow a concept from video games and set up online play or a LAN Party. There is so much that could be done and you right some of it may fall flat and be a waste of time but it also might be amazing. You complaint is more about ball time and nothing to do with the style of code.
I'll all for innovation. That's why I like a lot of things about SW code. I'm fine with them trying whatever, if I don't like the game as much I'll just enjoy it at shows or friends houses and save some $. I still don't think the journey style games is the correct approach. With a video game you pay $60 and when you are done with it you trade it in and pay $40 for the next one and start a new journey. With pinball machines you pay 7K and almost need a crane to move them long with a ton of space in your house. No matter how good the story or journey is it takes time to tell the story and no one wants to hear it 100 times. That is the biggest pitfall of that type of coding. So it really is a style of coding complaint. Some people love those games and I'm glad they are around. It would not be my preferred style of play though. Online play is something completely different in my opinion. It might be pretty cool but I'm not sure a nostalgia based hobby would be as accepting of it. I'm all for trying it though.
1 week later
It's just 2 guys opinion. Some of the IM owners act like Zack and Greg just kicked their puppy or something. So they think the band sucks and they hate the theme, so what. Lots of people are going to feel that way. If you enjoy the theme then that is great for you. It can't come as much of a surprise that they like POTC better as they seem really into interactive toys which IM doesn't really have.
There's lots of great pinball options out there for just about anyone's taste in pinball right now. These are nothing more then Zack and Greg's personal views on the games. If you are using their views to decide if a game is right for you then you need to stop. Go play the games and decide for yourself. Everyone likes different stuff.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I have to completely disagree for the reasons below. I think the review by SDTM for both pins is fair and who knows both may change over time.
1. At today's NIB prices flow is overrated when it results in less toys and features. Iron Maiden premium / LE has far less features then POTC. There's no comparison in my opinion, even after the Pirates changes. At $9k+ I want interactive features such as those offered by Pirates.
2. Pirates destroys Iron Maiden in the software, rules, animations and audio department. Code plays a big part in a games perceived value for myself and many other buyers. POTC easily has 5x the amount of code that Iron Maiden does and much of it, such as the animations, are on a different level.
3. Theme: A majority of Iron Maidens music is about death and depressing topics. A lot of buyers want a fun story based theme, especially when their friends and family play the games with them. I choose fun.
More code does not mean anything. Why in the world are some of you obsessed with a game having massive amounts of code that 99.9% of people (including most of you) will never see. What matters is that the code is well implemented and fits the theme and layout. I also don't get that the audio and animations can be better when it doesn't even include the assets of the movies which the game is themed off of. POTC looks like a great game, but it's certainly not destroying other top games. It may be on their level, but time will tell that.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Yes it does for me and many other buyers. If I'm going to spend $9k+ on a pin, or $6k+ even, then I want deep and unique rules that provide years worth of entertainment. JJP games do that thanks to the rulesets being designed by Keith Johnson, Ted Estes, and Joe Katz. I'm no longer interested in games that have me just hitting ramps and loops for points over and over again, that's not fun long term in my opinion when games cost as much as they do today. I'll play the adrenaline ramp and loop points games on location but they just don't have the staying power for me to buy one for my home.
I love how just about everything in a JJP game is building towards something and that theres always something to achieve or progress to. With a JJP pin I end up caring more about how much of the game I progressed through then how many points I earned and thats due to their ruleset designs. Stern is just not doing that on the same level as JJP and thats probably the main reason why my collection will eventually be all JJP pins, lol. I'm keeping Ghostbusters though, lol.
Everyone likes different things and that's what's great about pinball right now. Lots of options. I enjoy games like those but I certainly would not want a collection of them. I don't need to go on some quest or journey every time I turn on a pin though. Variety is the spice of life. I can have just as much fun on Flash Gordon as I can at any 9K pin.
I think this would sell better as a pinball show smelly guy solution rather then a gift for the pinball guy. Keep it on you at every pinball show. Spray the smelly guy in front of you to help provide a better experience for everyone.
I haven't even watched the video and I already know you picked potc based on all your previous comments 
Do we really need to keep comparing a game that isnt out to something you can actually buy and play?
Quoted from ZMeny:Potc as a theme isn’t strong for me, so I relish the pirate theme as a whole.
I get that but at the same time don't think it's fair to give jjp a pass on this. IMDN gets bashed as a theme (rightly so in many ways) but jjp puts out a potc game without the main character and no film assets or sounds for the most part. So why does that turn into an "it's ok, it's just a generic pirate theme pin". If stern did that people would lose there shit (see xmen and gotg voices).
Quoted from Spiderpin:If everyone was to wait for a game code to be complete before buying. Stern would have a warehouse full if they were still in business. Sale the games at reduced price and charge for the code. If I wanted an EM I would buy one.
Stern is hardly alone in shipping games in need of code updates. If everyone waited for code stern would put them out a lot more complete (which they already are in several cases) so I don't really get your complaint. Buy it early and take a risk or wait and know what you are getting. The choice is ours to make.
Quoted from ZMeny:I’ll be at sfge next weekend maybe we can share a couple hotdogs with ketchup
That's gross Zack. Mustard on the dogs, move to Carolina mustard based bbq sauce once you move over to brats like God intended 
Quoted from Who-Dey:Now i gotta take up for Zach on the pizza thing. Indiana has alot of Pizza Kings and that truly is one of the best pizza’s that you will ever eat, I actually drive 45 minuets to Indiana just to get it fairly often. Indiana is pretty much one ginormous cornfield though. Best thing to ever come out of Indiana was David Lee Roth. You can kinda see why Greg and Zach act the way they do though, i mean can you imagine seeing nothing but corn 24/7? Zach didnt even know who Iron Maiden was.
Not really true, Indiana has a huge collection of orange barrels to look at as you dodge potholes and just pray for the next state line to hurry up 
1 month later
Quoted from ZMeny:Deleted post
Meh, you are looking at it all wrong. If he's talking about you it's either because he's jealous or because you are whysnow. Are you whysnow?
You guys are reading way too much into this stuff. All reviews are subjective based on what people prefer in games. That does not make them biased. SDTM is never going to give terrible reviews that torch games because they are positive guys that seem to enjoy pinball. If you want someone to just destroy a game this is not the show for you. This is largely why the industry folks have given them access. Being a mostly positive force for pinball is not a bad thing. If you want drama there is plenty of other places to find it.
I tend to review games in a similar way. They are all fun and there's things i enjoy about all of them.
Quoted from Who-Dey:IMDN and BM66 lasted one week, id say Fathom will last about 1 day.
I heard he's already shopping it for a WNBJM...
Quoted from ZMeny:Shhhhhiiiiiiittttt. I’ll review that game right now: D+, interesting art, interesting concept, BOREFEST
Having said that, playing it with buddies at a JGentry party late into the night (hours after Nagel has fallen asleep) with some Flip N Out moonshine, it turns into an A+.Many requested a review of something older so that’s what we intend to do.
are you sure you weren't at my house for the last get together?
Don't hate on Larry's secret wallet loosening elixir.
Larry "you want an LE of the next stern?"
J.D. "nah, I'm going to wait and see how the code pans out and maybe get a show game deal to save some money if it turns out to be a great game"
Larry "try some of this"
J.D. "that's pretty good"
Larry " have some more"
J.D. "I like LE's, they so purdy, me want one"
1 week later
Greg completely lost me when he said he prefers an art style and colors like Demo Man 
I couldn't listen anymore after that.....
Quoted from FalconPunch:This is when I turned the volume up
Demo Man is a great shooting game, it's also a great value game. You get a ton for your money with that one. It's super freaking ugly though. While people will always like different color schemes or styles, you just can't compare the quality of art of Demo Man with Deadpool. Mentioning them together even sounds wrong.
1 week later
I've enjoyed every Spooky game so far. They are all very different and each has it's fun things about it. They certainly do not have the polish of a NIB stern but each game has improved in terms of art, reliability, and polish. I haven't played ACNC yet but it looks like it will be their best game to date by a pretty good margin. It won't be for everyone, but it only really needs to have 500 people like it anyway. Zack can always pick one up HUO in 6 months.
Quoted from Who-Dey:The host are good and im not worried about the inaccurate reviews at times because at the end of the day they are just people that love pinball like the rest of us and not experts. Reviews are nothing more than opinions really, at least where this show is concerned.
There is some things that could make the show better but its not my show so not my call. Sometimes people can take themselves too seriously and they lose sight of whats important. I have bought one of their shirts and will probably buy more in the future.
How can a review be inaccurate when it's just their opinion?
Quoted from Who-Dey:I don’t disagree with you but for example i just bought a new Cub Cadet mower. It got very high ratings but can you imagine if the reviewer hated the color yellow and ranked a lowes yard machine way higher than my Cub Cadet? See what im getting at here?
Because the color of a mower is equivalent to the theme of a pinball machine.......
Things I agree with
The scoop is a pretty big problem. Nothing like the AMH one, but it still really limits your ability to advance at times.
The display pretty much serves no purpose.
Things I disagree with
I was kind of meh on being a big fan of the show
I get tired of LOTR after one ball, I think TNA has a million times more staying power then it.
It is linear but the simplicity gives it staying power as it brings the intensity of a modern stern without the 700 layers of rules.
Overall TNA is a great option for NIB buyers. There's nothing else really like it and it' super fun.
Quoted from ZMeny:Well i got the not being a big fan thing right at least. I called it haha
Wow Scott, thanks for chiming in man! Very much appreciate the feedback on scoop tweaks. Now that I’m a TNA fan, I’m super excited about what you’re cooking up next.
Identification of problems with no solution are problems in and of themself. In other words, please elaborate upon the generosity that you feel we expressed in the categories. I’m a bit biased, but feel like my review was spot on Oh and based on today’s pricing, 6k is more than fair for what you’re getting.
I kid, you and Greg put on a pretty good show. I'm not big into podcasts or streams but I do watch a decent amount of the sdtm ones.
One other thing I forgot to add is that I would put WOZ by far as the most revolutionary/inventive games to be made in this decade. People can say what they want about the gameplay and about JJP. But it definitely changed the landscape of pinball. TNA isnt too far behind in 2nd though.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Nothing to EXPAND on really, i just personally think they rated it too high in most categories, the artwork is the one that stands out and is really obvious. I mean come on........B and B+ really? Sorry but thats laughable.
Shots and layout, nothing out of the ordinary that i see and it has no ramps or anything at all so C maybe or B-?
Code i cant comment on, not enough playing time
Toys and innovation A and A+...seriously? That’s laughable also. I give that a C
Music it got an A+. Sure the music is catchy but you hear the same shit over and over. B for me
Display and animations id say they were spot on.
Theme is subjective but id say a B or C for me
Enjoyability, cant comment there either due to lack of playing time.
Theres my take on it and im being pretty fair i think.
What do you rate IMDN and TWD for toys and innovation? 
At this point I think we can all agree that Who-Dey is extremely biased about the games he owns. When you are defending the art on GOT pro you have already lost.
Quoted from TheLaw:If he's trying to hide the fact RZ sucked, and A Cooper looks like the most horrible piece of garbage ever, he (or no one else) is doing a good job keeping that under wraps.
Ouch
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:IF Scott would allow an alternate design to be commissioned and ...
If Spooky would be willing to design and offer a reskinned version of TNA in 2020 and if ...
They hired a designer who could make reactor inspired cabinet and translite art that were dark and brooding...
You think there is a chance something good might happen and that suggested improvement will be made to the current game??
Why would they do any of that when it's their best selling game?
Quoted from ZMeny:Damn! Killer play. You haven’t updated code?
Not in a while, I've downloaded it, IMDN, and SW last week and am going to try to get the newest versions on this weekend. I hate updating the new sterns, takes forever..... I'm 1 update behind on SW and probably 3 on IMDN lol
Quoted from ZMeny:Yup, just another accurate review. Wwe is not good, but it’s no D, but close.
Got to agree with this one. WWE is pretty fun to play on location and isnt that bad of a game. Add in that you can get a HUO WWELE for half the price of a new release stern LE and it starts to look a lot better.
Quoted from chuckwurt:What would be an F overall game for everyone? I don’t think I’ve ever seen one. I think NASCAR might be my closest, but I can’t give that lower than a D, cause it’s actually decently fun to shoot.
Hurricane is pretty bad too, but the art is phenomenal and some of the rules are cool.
Everything about the game has to be terrible to get an F imo. Pretty crazy that every single game has its redeeming qualities.
There's a few. I think Rocky might be the least fun game I've ever played. But most games have enough positive things to at least get a D-
Quoted from evanc:I don't know if I'd give it an F, but Strange Science would probably be the closest I could think of for me.
It's a bad one dimensional game but the theme is cool and the lock is fun enough that it's not close to a F for me. Maybe a D+.
If you really break a game down it's going to be really hard for any modern game to score below a C-. The only thing I've seen that would achieve that is thunderbirds.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Could Thunderbirds be the first F??? Zach I believe in you!! Haha
Zack should buy one to review it...…
It's rare so resale value should hold up great 
But what games since 2010 have been releases that are a true F grade, meaning that they fail on almost every level and don't really have any redeeming qualities.
There really isn't a lot of terrible new games in my opinion. Some might not stack up so well to some of the great games released but they are still better then the majority released before then. Everyone raves about the 90's but it certainly has it's share of C grade pins.
Quoted from Who-Dey:All i am saying is something feels off about their rating system because you got games ahead of other games that should no way be there in most peoples eyes. I don't know what the answer is to improving it and i don't even give a shit if they dont try to improve it because it's their show not mine.
Im just giving my opinion on ways to make the show better because i watch the show sometimes. You can criticize me all you want and Zach can get mad all he wants, i seriously do not care, but if nobody said anything at all they wouldn't have any idea where they stand or if anyone likes the show or not. Im not criticizing the show at all, im just saying something feels off about the rating of these games. They can agree or disagree, im ok either way with it.
Man you've seemed really obsessed over this stuff every since Zach didn't like your favorite game. You keep insinuating that they are biased, that something is wrong with the show, that their ratings are all wrong, that the show has changed and is bad now, etc. You say this stuff but it's all innuendo with no information. Now you say it's a private matter but you are going out of your way to take public shots a sdtm.
If you have suggestions for the show, just say them. If you dont like Zach or Greg then just dont watch. If you dont like their reviews start your own show and do it however you like. I sincerely doubt that Zach is mad at you or butt hurt. He's probably equally as confused as all of us. None of these things seemed to be an issue until he didn't like IMDN. Lots of people dont like it, lots do, who cares?
Quoted from delt31:Where do I begin with this review.....let me first start off by saying that I enjoyed the content as always and even the review itself. That said, I very much disagree with ratings. Not as much as Houdini but I just couldn't believe A- for shots and layout? A+ for code or worse TOYS and Innovation!!!??? I actually looked at my TnA again to make sure I didn't miss a separate pf!
I think we all agree that the music is incredible. It might be the best music in any pinball to date. Amazing sound system. It's that good. Theme is up to the individual - not going to argue there. I hate IMDN, people love it. I love TNA's 80s vibe with great color and art - sure....move on
Here's where things get interesting but before I begin, reminder - I've owned this pin for a few months. I put some good time on it and enjoyed a lot but ultimately - waaaaaay too linear for single owner use which is why I ultimately sold it. Many folks ask that question - many answer no it will never get old. Reality check - it def could get old. See below:
Shots and Layout: If you want to continue enjoying this game, don't make the same mistake I did and watch Bowen on youtube blow this game up. Now I know everyone says that's b/c he's so good but he made me aware of the games downfall - SHORT PLUNGE. Damn that short plunge b/c even someone as bad as me can almost consistently get MB but just doing short plung, bounce over to right flipper, trap ball and hit backhand. Rinse and repeat. There goes your strategy out the door b/c who isn't taking MB all day?
THE SCOOP - oh the scoop. Def broken. I made a similar comment on the owners thread and took all the advice given (even bending it forward) - doesn't work. Backhands shouldn't be the answer - mine loved the backhand and said no soup for you on the forehand. Even when it was 100% lined up - it rejected. It's such an important shot - very disappointing to see that.
Code: This goes well with the shots and layout. It's very simple and very straight forward. The roots of this game being homebrew are clearly there. To give a game that is absolutely positively one of if not the most linear game on the planet an A+ for code is absolutely mind blowing. What are we rewarding here? Yes it's challenging. Yes I've only made it to reactor 6 but not b/c of anything but absolute chaos due to the standups and pops (which btw - I do love that damn Pop) - I'm not sure it's skill or luck to truly get through the game. When you drain out, it's back to doing the same thing over and over. Zach talks about chopping wood games like MET and how he can't get past that - TnA literally is the definition of chopping wood.
Here's the main point - you do the same thing over and over again to move on to the next reactor. There is no alternative goal - it's literally the same thing again and again. Yes - it's impressive that "again and again" can be this fun. That's why I bought it and enjoyed it a lot at first but to say it's an A+ for code? Whaaaat? Again code is the games complexity - what it requires the player to experience and work through right?
Toys and Innovation - I'm not sure what was a bigger surprise. Code or this being rated A+. Again - PERFECT score for toys? What toys? The drop targets lined behind each other in the top right corner? The use of slings in the top middle? To me these are just an illustration of the creator's ability to leverage cheaper materials and make them into something interesting b/c again - homebrew roots. He didn't have the funds or assets that JJP has so he had to make do. I agree that he did an excellent job with what he had - in fact I think Scott is an absolute genius for creating so much out of so little but does that equal a rotating ship that's sculpted to perfection in Pirates, or holograms, and drones, and magnets and the list goes on in DI or 10 other games that have real toys? I know it's more than just the physical toy but how it interacts in the game but I'm sorry three drop targets that hold the ball is not an A+. Speaking of, crediting inlanes and outlanes that provide "something" to the player if the balls hits their switch (like it does in literally every game) is not A+ innovation. Again - they are cool in their own way but A+?
Finally - I want to revisit something Greg mentioned early on. The game gets stale. I think that about summarizes my confusion on how this game can be rated so high if it gets stale. I completely agree - it does get stale. That again and again strategy just burns out in a single own home like mine.
Gentlemen - as always LOVE the product and I know you appreciate agreements and disagreements so nothing but respect on this one. Just thought I would provide my input on the review. For me - this game is good. Solid B. It's just the A's especially A+ and the categories in which they were given that was surprising. I welcome feedback, others insight and DEFINITELY NOT saying my view here is the correct view. Just throwing in my two cents based on my experience.
Excellent job entertaining as always and look forward to future content!
I'm with you on the shots being rated a little high. There's just not enough of them. Although the orbits are fantastic.
Completely against you on the code. It's simple but well done. Add in co-op modes, an awesome custom sound track, inlane saves, etc, and I think it hits on all the right levels.
Against you again on toys/innovation. The lock is new to pinball and is very innovative. You talking about cost of mechs shows that you dont know much about the cost of mechs. You could build every stern pro cheaper then tna. The game is loaded with innovation. From the speaker system, multiple display bg, multiplayer code, custom cabinet design, lighting, in lane saves, in line drops that reveal a scoop, etc.
All games get stale, every last F'ing one of them. Doesn't matter how world under glass or grail they are.
Quoted from kvan99:Ha! finally some truth..... I applaud you even though you've only posted since you sold the game TNA is a great homebrew with great music and lightshow. Those 2 things will be copied by the all the other guys in short order. However, the layout and ruleset just isn't there to justify that kind of score.
And yet if I cared enough to rate games my top 2 would be ACDC and Flash Gordon. So how can that possibly be if 10 million lines of code and 10+ shots are needed to make a good game?
Quoted from delt31:I agree with you on the orbits in that they are definitely a great shot to hit and super smooth. I'm not sure I would call out a smooth orbit though as a highlight. We used to just call them orbits before TnA was released. If it wasn't smooth it would be called out as a problem ; ).
Your comment about not knowing how much mechs cost...... remind me - how much do three drop targets cost along with the underlying mech to drop the target? Compare that to any toy that is built custom for these machines like the ship on Pirates. Reply back with the simple math difference on that one and then remind me about not knowing how much mechs cost. PROTIP....I tried searching jjp ship mech on pinball life and it came up with no results! Funny - I was able to find the drop targets and mech used in TnA. That could be the first issue. Damn these custom built toys!
As for total cost of Stern pros vs TnA - I didn't mention that in my post but interesting question. I do think that 6k isn't too bad. Real backglass, amazing sound system, well built cab, LCD screen (which just needs to be adjusted for contrast) - I didn't really think it's over priced at all. In fact when they become readily available, this will be 4-5k used no question which would be the sweet spot.
I agree they are going to drop in price. I think around $5200 or so will be the going rate.
You cant just go buy any custom toy for most games. If you can most are controlled by the game maker. Potc is a poor example as it just started to ship (after another decade delay) and jjp will not have parts listed available for it yet. It also costs 3k more so you had better be getting a lot more stuff in it. A better example would be sparky or the xmen wolverine that you can currently buy and actually compare.
Quoted from delt31:I agree. You can't go buy these custom toys which to me jumps the value even higher. I hear your point - I just don't value generic pinball parts being put together to create a toy that is an A+.
I can understand that, I think the innovation being grouped with toys led to that though.
Quoted from delt31:That's a fair point in that I don't delve into the older pins. Probably b/c I'm in that 30-40 bucket and didn't grow up with those. What I do appreciate is that pins have evolved to be so much more now - I'm not sure I would grade the older ones on the same scale....TnA is not an old game.
Just to be clear - I like the pin. I had fun with it. I actually gave it a B. Not sure how you concluded I don't like it (other than my critiques - but all games have critiques).
I would recommend at some point trying to get some time with a few friends on a game like Fathom, EBD, Centaur, Flash Gordon, etc. Find someone that has good working clean ones and I think you might be surprised how much they can grow on you. Modern games with all kinds of stuff are great, sometimes just the simplicity of you against pops, drops, targets with the only real goal of a better score is great. I don't always play my older games but they certainly have their place and there are many times that I only play them and not my modern games. They are not from my era either and there was I time I thought they were beyond boring.
You may never like them, but a lot of people grow to like them the longer they are in the hobby.
Quoted from Whysnow:so you dont have a specific date/time frame when I can supposedly buy a TNA for 4k?
just some wide opened idea that happens to be after you trade yours away for a premium over original MSRP? ok, cool
When you want to pick a date of "readily available and used market of 4k" let me know. I would think with 250 out the door and likely at 450 delivered by April 2019, that would be a reasonable date to pick for when your Nintendo idea is complete?
nice bottle of bourbon to the winner?
Lets get specific to make it clear. If 5 TNA (1% of the likely production) have sold for $4500 (ill split the difference on your wild numbers) or less by April 2019 then I owe you a nice ($50 plus) bottle.
If they have not, then you own me.
Loser to deliver bottle to winner at one of the big pinball shows and we crack it open for some good times and pinball games of the winners choosing (to expose the other to what they like and why)
I think at this point the data is already trending downward with price. That doesn't say anything about the game, this happens with all of the crazy priced NIB games now. A few initial buyers stuck it to the people that have to have the newest toy now for 8-9K and those people have pretty much already went through the game. Now you will have the people that waited in line for the shiny new toy that is getting good reviews that doesn't really like classic style games but have convinced themselves this one is different. After a few months theirs are up for sale and you start to see the used market falling to close to MSRP now. Which is should, used games should go down in value. As more games are made and the market demand is met I think low to mid 5's is were the game will settle out in the next few years. With low production numbers that might go back up if enough time goes by and more runs are not made.
Quoted from delt31:I never said they would ALL be used at 4k. You're like CNN - picking and choosing and putting together sentences. I said the RANGE of 4-5k. I believe that will happen. Do I know for sure it will? No. Do I know the timeframe? I guess 2020? Do I have any interest in making a bet with a grown man like we're in 3rd grade - definitely not.
Let me make this easy for you and your ego. You're right. This game will never drop below 6k b/c it's awesome.
I wouldn't be surprised if a few desperate for cash sellers sell on below 5K in the next few years. If new games keep getting pumped out and people keep replacing their current games to get one the market will slow down. Catch a slow spell when you happen to list one and the seller needs cash now and it will happen.
While many people hate RZ I actually like the game. I had one of the last LE's and had a friend that thought he had to have it. When it shipped he offered me $8500 for it NIB and I told him to come get it. I wasn't looking to sell it but for $2300 profit I just bought another one and put that money towards another game. If he went to sell that game he'd take close to a 4K loss on it now. Just goes to show how things can go from insanely in demand to an after thought.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Feel free to skip Xenon.
You take that back, I F'ing love Xenon. One of the coolest looking games ever. So simple but yet a blast to play if its setup steep and in good shape. If it's slow and sloppy then it's a snooze fest.
Quoted from Whysnow:lol, I was trying to have a fun bet as I point out your pretty big exclamation that once readily available they are going to be selling for 33% less on the secondary. All games drop, but few drop that much. You made an exclamatory statement combined with saying why you dont like the game. I just think you are way off.
This is not a 3rd grade bet. That would end up in you licking the frozen flag pole on recess.
This is for a fun time. You lose and you end up drinking some good spirits and playing some classics while I show you why I like them and what you are missing. I guess the punishment is you have to hang out with me for a few hours, lol.
sometimes bets can be fun and a $50 bottle of booze among guys that spend 6k on pinball machines is not very much in my world of having some fun with it all.
If you change you mind, bet is still open
How about this. If in 24 months I (8/30/20) I can find 4 proven examples of TNA selling below 5K then you have to be Kenada's guest on his podcast. If I cannot then I will send you a very nice bottle of bourbon?
Quoted from chuckwurt:The one I had for a year was lightning fast with strong lively pops and a spinner that ripped for days.
Even with the tilt tight, no outlane posts, and it setup to reset the tube value each ball, there is zero reason to do anything but tube shots. Even after you get multiball and have the spinner lit, still just not the fun I can get from a dozen or more other games from the era.
It also has the weirdest bonus advance I’ve ever seen. Interesting, but not fun to go through.
You are absolutely right, as far as scoring and shot diversity is makes no sense. It's not a good game, I love it anyway for some reason though.
Quoted from delt31:Yeah it's amazing how much games can drop. I just picked up a Hobbit and can't believe the price you pay for the game you get.
Btw forgot to mention - Greg mentioned you unboxed your TnA and put it out for others to play first? That's really impressive and a stand up move.
TH is a pretty good value now. Opening TNA at the show was no big deal. It's a great way to get any kinks worked out of a game in one weekend.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I'll take a tna for $4.5k please or gladly pay $6k for a reskinned version. I'd like different colors and new designs on cabinet and translite. A new version would increase sales by bringing a new crowd to the table. Either way would work.
I'd like for pinball shows to not smell like old sneakers and farts, I don't think either are likely.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I can account for one lost sale. While I like the game, with current art is only worth $4.5k to me. Don't think I will find that so my only hope is to pay full price. But unless there is a killer art package, I won't pay that much premium.
Reactors are cool, and I just want some kind of dark, foreboding artwork. Even a Judge Dredd style package of man vs catastrophe would work. Guess it is too pop for my tastes.
You're about as stuck on this as Who-Dey and the IMDN review. I thought the GB art was too bright, maybe if stern would redo it a little darker like the movies I'll buy one. Well, not really, I hate that game.
Quoted from o-din:Wasn't that a Disney theme?
I believe so, starring Dwayne Johnson.
Quoted from cocomonkeh:The Coke thing drives me absolutely bonkers.
Enjoy your pop then
And its nuts down here, no one goes bonkers
Quoted from Darscot:Roller blades and in Inline skates are two different things. Blades are typically plastic with a break and people tend to use them to cruise around. Inline skates are exactly like hockey skates and they turn on a dime, no break you turn to stop.
You ride a toboggan, I have never heard an article of clothing called that?
Once you get south of the Ohio river you wear one on your head in winter. I believe it's called a beanie up there.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I thought cokes were called dopes or sodas in Tennessee. ...or maybe thats Texas? Anyway we say pop in Ohio as a general term for all flavors or brands of soda but if im at a restaurant i will say "I'll take a coke meaning coca cola and if they have Pepsi products the waitress will say .....is Pepsi ok instead?
Better be careful, Delt will put you in the Hudson.
It's pretty weird how different regional dialects can be of the same language. It's even weirder that we understand what the others mean and are sure it's wrong lol.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Very true, gotta watch out for delt! So are you calling all different kinds of pop cokes or just coca cola? I mean do you call orange crush and Mountain Dew a coke also?
Yes, most people call all of them cokes in this area. Nashville has a ton on transplants so it's not as common there as it is rural areas.
Quoted from pickleric:Coming from the midwest, it is hard to understand the coke thing! It feels like that would be similar to going to a mexican restaurant and asking for a taco. Waitress says what kind and then you go, I'll take a chicken burrito please.
That said, looking at the map above... I have no idea what is going on in Alaska!
A whole lot of meth
Quoted from iceman44:Tube socks, tighty whities and a headband would be the only thing that could have made that video better!
Oh wait, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
You have a very sick imagination........
1 week later
Quoted from ZMeny:I’d go afmrle and mbrle personally.
How can someone that loves their toys go afm over MM?
Quoted from chuckwurt:I’d leave out MMR too. I’ve played that game enough for ten life times. Haha
Most of us have, but if you were starting from scratch and never played any of them what would you choose?
I enjoy playing both. AFM probably has a little better code and tighter shots. MM has better toys and more of a wow factor. I own both but if one had to go I'd probably keep MM. It gets played a lot more by my wife and when we have people over it is always the most played game. I don't play either of them a ton anymore because I've played each a lot over the years.
The game is a real looker. Those plastics are awesome. ZY really does amazing stuff with something so simple as a plastic set.
Quoted from ZMeny:Yeah and something pro machine has that you don’t get on prem/LE, deadpool swinging in a hammock
You get it. It's just in the coin box 
All I see when I look at that shirt is Greg and Ronald Reagan for some reason. Cool design, the paid for by pinstadium is my favorite part.
Quoted from ZMeny:Ahhhhhh ok. I think the Bone resembles Reagon more, but that’s fair.[quoted image]
There's worse things then having a character of yourself that mildly resembles an actor/president.
I say it's your show so do whatever the F you want. People will bitch no matter what you change or don't change.
You guys do this for fun for a hobby you love. Keep it fun and exactly in the direction you want it to be. Don't worry about anything else. Ignore everything else and do what feels right for you.
Alright so after about 10 games on DP my initial thoughts are below.
This game shoots like nothing I've ever seen before. Both in a good way and a bad way at times. The way the shooter lane is used the orbits feel like wide body orbits, they are crazy long. The lift ramp in the shooter lane one the premium/le is freaking awesome, great toy that makes the left orbit super fun. The scoop is far away but is a super easy shot. The right orbit has a touch of rattle but its fine and is a crazy long shot. The katana lock doesn't work. Maybe 30% hit rate, so epic fail there. When it does work it's pretty cool though. Little inner colossus shot and inner spinner orbit feel better then expected.
Code is not were it needs to be, bones are there but it's a huge step back from IMDN which was near complete at release. The disco mode is cool as hell though.
Music is fun, callouts are fine, screen is cool.
Art package is as good as they come.
Overall it's weird, different, and has a ton of potential. That shooter lane lift ramp is so freaking cool. Gomez has some explaining to do on the katana ramp. It does not play like any other stern. Some will hate it, some will love it because its different, most will find it ok.
As far as the katana shot goes after setting the game at 7.2 ( which feels flat to me) and slightly bending a guide it's more like a 60%+ shot now. I couldn't even start ninja multiball until I lowered the pitch. Disco is also a one ball mode on the LE instead of a multiball like on the pro. So far I'm really enjoying the game.
Quoted from jgentry:Alright so after about 10 games on DP my initial thoughts are below.
This game shoots like nothing I've ever seen before. Both in a good way and a bad way at times. The way the shooter lane is used the orbits feel like wide body orbits, they are crazy long. The lift ramp in the shooter lane one the premium/le is freaking awesome, great toy that makes the left orbit super fun. The scoop is far away but is a super easy shot. The right orbit has a touch of rattle but its fine and is a crazy long shot. The katana lock doesn't work. Maybe 30% hit rate, so epic fail there. When it does work it's pretty cool though. Little inner colossus shot and inner spinner orbit feel better then expected.
Code is not were it needs to be, bones are there but it's a huge step back from IMDN which was near complete at release. The disco mode is cool as hell though.
Music is fun, callouts are fine, screen is cool.
Art package is as good as they come.
Overall it's weird, different, and has a ton of potential. That shooter lane lift ramp is so freaking cool. Gomez has some explaining to do on the katana ramp. It does not play like any other stern. Some will hate it, some will love it because its different, most will find it ok.
Just to circle back around a little I think the code is actually much better then I originally thought. I just didn't know how some things worked. The code is super unique and there is a lot there already. Definitely needs some polish and a few additions but it only a few steps behind IMDN at launch.
Quoted from Who-Dey:If that is true then you got yourself one heck of a game in Deadpool. Hope you are enjoying it.
Just as far as completeness of code. They are extremely different games. Certainly not a bad thing.
Quoted from Who-Dey:What would you say are the top 3 games in your collection?
Quoted from chuckwurt:I’ll answer for him:
AC/DC
Eight ball deluxe
Embryon
Haha, pretty darn close.
My favorite at any current moment is always different, but if I could only own 3 it would be
AC/DC
Flash Gordon
Embryon
Quoted from chuckwurt:So would mine. [quoted image]
Only if they get to insist we get together and they say 1 billion words while we quietly enjoy beer and play pinball.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Wouldn’t be possible with mine. She’d be insistent on kicking your ass in pinball. Haha
Depending on how many beers I have it might not be too hard. And if I haven't had that much and she stomps my ass anyway I'll make sure to say I drank a lot earlier in the day.....
Quoted from Who-Dey:I kinda thought IMDN and MET would be in there? Then maybe MM or AFM...
4 great games. IMDN and Met are great, I enjoy both a lot but both code wise give me a similar feeling experience. IMDN shoots great, met is loaded with features. AFM and MM are great to play around on and I enjoy both but honestly dont play either a lot. After being king of the realm and ruling the universe a few times the replay value isn't there compared to modern sterns or classic b/w games for me. We are nit picking awesome games at this point though.
Quoted from ZMeny:Hey there’s the good discussion. You were gone so long, I didn’t think you’d ever return.
I’m still diggin my Star Wars Premium. I know, I know, I get it, but I don’t get it. So many fun things to do with killer layout and feel.
That's because it's a badass game with killer code that way too many people decided it sucked before even playing it. I still love mine, it really has a lot to offer and if you learn the multipliers and really focus on maximizing everything it creates a completely new and different pinball experience.
Finally put together a good game on DP
Beat both quests and all 3 battles. Using team ups for the battles is key. Trying to save up for a super boom on the quests is key. Also found out that disco have 2 modes on the LE. Starts as a loop combo mode, second mode is the disco multiball that is on the pro. I played Sauron for a while and felt like I did really well but Mr Sinister did not light after I lost my multiball? Sauron is a super hard mode. The only thing I believe I didn't do was play all the lil dp modes so maybe that is why Mr Sinister didn't light? It just restarted with the 3 battles not lit again.
20180922_084914 (resized).jpgQuoted from ZMeny:I think you may have to get super jackpots in a couple of the multiballs as well. I did the same thing, defeated everyone and didn’t know how to start it. Not sure it’s coded yet but I seen a video on mr sinister lighting then once you started the mode it just gave a big score and the game makes you start over again.
I got the super in ninja multiball. Maybe I was missing something in the lil dp modes as I just ignored them and focused on completing the other stuff. Damn is Sauron tough. Left ramp, right ramp, colossus
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:yeah, Lil Deadpool is a multiball and you need to collect a super jackpot on it too.
The rules seem flat rather than deep. One strategy (which you followed) is to collect everything in one game, including 2x playfield multiplier and then Sinister. The modes and multiballs are intuitive to start. The art package is tight. Most people set the game up steep. In many ways the game is on par with Iron Man.
Do you think the game has legs to last in your collection?
Way too early to tell. Initially it's really fun but some games get old faster then others. There's plenty of code and overall I like the direction they took on the game. Ask me again in 8 weeks.
Quoted from ZMeny:I bet no. Sounds like he already got through it all. Ready to play Mystique again JGentry?
That's going to be one of the big questions about the game. Are having 5 major modes enough or is it going to get old fast. I do love how you can setup the modes for success. If I play properly I only need 3-4 shots to beat each of the battle modes. So you can blaze through them.
Some of the code team has been reaching out to early owners and I recommend adding a side mode for colossus, wolverine, and domino. I love the disco modes and katanarama, etc so adding more of that I think could really help the game from getting stale. Maybe the side mode starts after 5 shots to each character? They also need to rework trex so it's more exciting.
I'm loving my DP. It's just pure light hearted fun. Is it the best game ever, no. Its probably the most fun I've had on a nib though. My wife and I have been playing the heck out of it.
It's a clunky Gomez design. All of his designs have shots that feel like that and shots that are on a strange part of the flipper. Doesn't bother me though, it's good to have something that feels different and for me it's different in a good way.
As for the pro/premium debate. No doubt the pro is the best value and you don't give up much in the way of mechs. No doubt the premium/LE is a better game though as the left orbit is the smoothest shot in the game and being able to smoothly combo it really adds to the games appeal. For me it always comes down to what is the best playing model. I'm fortunate that I can afford which one I like, doesn't mean that the LE or premium are the best value. But I think it's hard to argue that the pro plays better on this one. I made 9 orbits in a row on disco loops last night and oh did it feel so good.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Based on your collection and suggested by your post, did you meant the LE/Prem plays better?
But as you note the pro is the better value...
Pro is always the better value, in some cases they even play better. Premium/LE for DP is the better player.
4 weeks later
Quoted from Who-Dey:Im honestly going to be surprised if anybody buys one. Sure looks pretty lame to me.
They will sell plenty, maybe not 1964 but it will do just fine. Just because you dont buy a game doesn't make it a flop.
Quoted from ZMeny:Just wished the video was better. Did not showcase the beauty of the game.
I like Seawitch a lot and there looks to be some great upgrades added. I dont love the art but I'm not really a Franchi guy so that doesn't surprise me. It's all going to depend on price. Pro pricing and they sell all of the golds. Premium or more and I'll just buy a Seawitch.
Quoted from ZMeny:So it’s the price? What is the price?
They dont know, but they are mad as hell about this game that they dont want, lol.
Quoted from ZMeny:I could see bitching about the price if there was an actual price
Preemptive pissing and moaning is a long standing pinside tradition.
It's pretty simple, if you dont like the game or the price, dont buy it. It always amazes me how people get really mad when they dont like a new game.
Quoted from TheLaw:I don't think the majority, or anywhere close to it, are mad aboot it. I think lots of people just think it looks horrible. There's some real Beatles fans in there that had "their hearts broken" but that's going to happen everytime no matter what. eXpecially with a ka-pow angle I think most people knewm it wasn't going to be for them.
But again, I think most people are just a little chocked by the look of it. Hmm...well true there are people that never play games without ramps that are a little pissy.
Sounds like there will be 3 art packages. Maybe the other 2 are better. It's funny to me that cgc applauded for doing some bling and stern is killed when they actually added a lot to the gameplay of a remake. The whole dream theme nonsense is even worse. I should get to punch anyone that says grail or dream theme. They are all just over priced luxury toys. No one is hurt by not liking stern The Beatles.
Quoted from iceman44:Pinheads will weigh in right? Some people need to get a grip and understand that!
Yeah, its SUCKS, I will play games "without ramps", love em all, but not falling for this overpriced stupid BS. Yes its "overpriced" no matter what.
To me, as a long time buyer that has shoved $$$ their way the last several years, of which i love many of those, its a joke.
I think we are seeing the culmination of EGO and are F ed on this Seawitch reskin.
What's the price?
Is the bubble bursting or are you just drunk again?
Quoted from iceman44:Lol. You and fellow Stern pumper Levi need to jump on this Beatles JG!
Gotta keep the machine running.
It is what it is, crapola, and while I won't be buying Beatles, its a no go on Munsters too.
Bitch, whine and complain...that's what we do here, you know it.
Yes, I'm familiar with the bitching and whining.
All depends on price for me. If it's around pro pricing and I like the gold artwork better I'd love to get one. If it's much more I'll just sit this one out. No big deal. Looking forward to playing it though. Seawitch is a sweat ass game and the additions could be pretty cool.
Quoted from delt31:Kind of sucks when the premier Beatles game looks like a child designed it. It's like they went with the winner of a 5th grade science product. It's embarrassing.
I'm not even a Beatles fan but I always enjoy seeing a new pinball. For the money they are going to charge for this thing they should be shamed GOT style.
Ashamed of GOT? That game is crazy fun. Do you guys even like pinball or do you just like blowing money on games?
Quoted from delt31:Cmon jgentry. You and I are on a roll recently. Reread my sentence and I think you'll understand my point. Clue - no issue with GOT pinball.
Ah, I get it now. Grew up in Kentucky, I'm lucky to be able to read at all.
Great job Greg and Zach, looks like you both had a blast. Expo definitely looked to be more fun this year then some years past. I may have to try to go again next year. Who was that old codger in the flipnout both that thinks he's Charlie Sheen?
Thanks for bringing the expo show to those of us that couldn't make it. I would have liked to have grabbed a couple of the Franchi prints if I was their. Some really cool stuff.
Quoted from ZMeny:That’s a surprisingly fun machine there especially with two people.
Only 2.5 year wait, lol. Glad these things are finally available though.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I want one!
Larry at flipnout is a dealer for them now. He can hook you up for a lot less then you see them listed on ebay.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:I'm betting this isn't what you intended.
Depends on how into the gameplay I'm getting.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I was hoping they may have one of the new zombie ones. Id love to try one out just to see if i would still like them as much as i did when i was younger.
Larry will have one at the Nashville show if you can make it down.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I wish but thats isnt even remotely possible for me anytime soon. So are you enjoying yours so far?
Yeah it's fun. Typical pitch and bat with some modern flare. Nothing else on the market really like it. Sure, slugfest is a better value. But that running man unit with ZY art is super cool.
Quoted from ZMeny:And the lighting effects
The homerun lightning is awesome.
The wife scored her first victory. I was down 29 to 3 going into the last inning so I at least made her nervous
20181025_201621 (resized).jpgQuoted from PinMonk:Maintenance nightmare on location. The backbox mechanical stuff is way too cheap for the duty cycle.
The running man unit is actually incredibly simple. Have you seen the insides of it. This is easily the least complex game that I own outside of my multicade.
Poor wolfman looks like he needs some fiber...…
Quoted from delt31:Imo Star wars deservingly got a low score.
Still one of my most played games. I'd take it over MB every day of the week.
Quoted from andrewket:Zach, you’re still waiting, aren’t you? I guess that’s the joke?
The real joke is that JJP didn't step up and make sure SDTM got a game early. Looks like a great game but a real opportunity lost to have a good review and positive press about the game when they first started shipping.
Quoted from Ericc123:Zach, is there any point at which you will cancel your order and reinvest in something else, or are you so in love with the game that you will wait indefinitely?
At this point some distros are pretty much caught up with orders. Unless his ships in the next week or so he could probably cancel and get one somewhere else faster.
Quoted from PinMonk:Same-y groups of modes, poor progression direction, and lacking "just one more game" feeling due primarily to ridiculously long ball times, but secondarily to boring gameplay (see:same-y mode grouping). There's a few more for you next time someone asks.
It is better with the latest code update. Quite a bit so. I make myself think of it as a slower 1980's bally and I find I enjoy it more. Not a game I love but it's not terrible, it's very different which makes it good and bad.
Quoted from ZMeny:Hobbit had more unique modes than dialed in or most new sterns
I dont know, a few are cool but most are a little meh.
Quoted from chuckwurt:I don’t think any new stern has half as many modes as hobbit. Haha
Quality over quantity lol
I like all the jjp games about the same. I've owned all 3 and honestly just didn't love any of them. If I was to get one again it would be WOZ but I'm not a fan of the layout. TH has the best sound, artwork, and screen work but I'm not a huge fan of layout on it either and more modes is not a better thing for me. DI shoots the best by a mile but the art, kiddy toys, phone, are hideous and the sound just grates on my last nerve. None of them really offer an exciting experience for me unfortunately. All well built well coded games from a good manufacturer but they just haven't made a game for me yet.
Quoted from Goronic:SDTM and friends,
I am digging MBr LE more and more and am starting to consider selling my hobbit (sigh) and getting the MBr LE. Good idea? This or That!?!?
I am dying here...
The skinny - It will be a single pin for home use situation.
Hobbit Points:
- Awesome for new and intermediate skill players
- Deep rules ideal for home use (so many modes you can play in any order - and the wizard modes are incredible)
- Amazing story telling game with JJP quality LCD and animations
- Move clips GALORE!
- Music and callouts are top notch (perhaps best to date in pinball) - especially after the 3.0 code
- I really enjoy owning and playing this pin
MBr Points:
- Best MB ever made
- No other points needed
So, what do you think? Keep Hobbit or get MBr!?!?
EDIT: MB is one of my favorite pins of all time...but Hobbit is as well.
With a single pin collection embrace that they will come and go. When something feels stale trade it out. MB will get old pretty fast, but all of them get old. Theres no such thing as keepers and games bolted to floors.
Quoted from indybru:Theres no such thing as keepers and games bolted to floors.
I don't know, I can't think of any of my games I want to rotate out. Hobbit is tops for staying, followed by Woz, IMVE, SW's and AFMr's.
Sure, they are staying forever and your just not buying anymore games or ever selling any of those. A collection of grails that are worlds under glass bolted to floors.
At some point you wont own any of those games that you currently have. Just the way it is, I've seen it and heard it a thousand times. Nothing wrong with being happy with what you have, but every last game gets old. So they either get replaced for something else or sold to fund a new hobby.
Nice collection by the way.
1 week later
Quoted from delt31:I can't echo this enough. I can't comment on the game considering I have never played it but the pricing alone - the disgusting greed associated with it.....I want to flip the machine over and burn it to the ground!
Ok a little strong but the machine makes me sick and represents the worst in pinball..... And I love Stern.
Lol, why? People's emotional responses to a pinball machine are pretty bizarre.
Quoted from Spiderpin:Was there a coin slot, I couldn't tell. The songs didn't sound full length to me. They were only 2 minutes plus song anyway back in the 60's. I want one, but gotta find one to play first and then think really hard if it's justifiable. I was hoping for so much more, In my mine. Imagine that.You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one.
Looks like a standard coin door. Didn't even look like the decal was on them so I'm not sure if something has changed from the released photo's or not.
Quoted from Spiderpin:I was just paid some money that I wrote off as a bad investment. So now I have a This or That.
TNA or Beatles Gold.
I would say platinum but sure of price. I have not played neither game.
Based on your collection I think you would really like both of them. I own TNA and it is a great game. Brutal, fast, fun, multiplayer awesomeness, etc. Haven't played The Beatles yet but the addition of modes may push it over TNA. It is certainly going to have more to do then TNA. Hard to say for sure yet though as more is not always better.
Quoted from delt31:Time to get the smelling salts out in Tennessee if this is something you can't understand as I would question if you have a pulse. I guess people like me just call out nonsense like this but shame on customers for supporting it as well. Stern should have taken the higher road on this.
Delt I know you are a good dude, but you have lost it on this one. Completely out of touch with reality on this one. You've sold plenty of games. In some cases you were definitely trying to get a premium for them. I don't have a problem with that, get as much as you can for them. But when a company tries to make as much as they can they are sick, disgusting, and you want to flip it over and burn it, etc. And now not only is stern disgusting, but shame on any one that buys one 
A little over the top about a toy don't you think?
Quoted from delt31:Mutual respect here as well but going to agree to disagree I guess. Trying to compare selling of already produced machines based on their quality to this gutless cash grab reskin is far fetched (won't even spend the time to detail why - just don't care to) and using an IP itself (not the game) to justify the price is just something I will never support. This is coming from a stern supporter in general.
I mentioned lighting it on fire was over the top so don't take everything I say so serious! haha
I guess I can get that a little. But at the same time there is a lot going into a reskin like this. In this case the layout has been tweaked a pretty good amount, so much so that the game is going to play fairly different then a Seawitch. Add in that all the mechs are either redesigned or switched to modern mechs, all modern boards, lighting etc, all new code with modes etc, and the cost can add up.
Most people are comparing this game to TNA and saying well TNA is 6K so this is over priced and crazy. I understand that if you just look at the surface but if you dig a little you can see real quick why it may cost more.
TNA is unlicensed and had no cost for that, The Beatles is rumored to be the most expensive license ever and is on a limited run of games (if you consider 1964 limited)
TNA barely uses it's LCD screen, The Beatles has a massive amount of work put into it's LCD display which requires a ton of code
and man hours and it is being received as one of the best LCD uses to date already.
While I think TNA is OK in the art department (BG is OK, playfield is meh to me) The Beatles has very well done professional art.
No doubt TNA brings you a better cabinet, better speakers, spooky's proven playfield toughness, a real BG, etc. So I think build quality wise TNA beats the pants off of The Beatles. But to get a TNA you have to wait and for most of the world it is at best $6300 shipped and that's if you don't add anything. The Beatles is being shipped at $7600 for most. So $1300 more, factor in the license, art, and LCD work and I can see how you get there real quick. For me they are very comparable. I would be a lot more interested in The Beatles if it came in an old school cab. That is my biggest disappointment in the game.
Personally I think they are both a little overpriced for what you get but if you have the money why not if you like the product. Knowing TNA was overpriced didn't stop me from buying one. If The Beatles was in the same cab as my Flash Gordon it would probably be enough to push me into buying one. For now I'll wait and see how the HUO market goes though.
Quoted from Yelobird:NOT trying to get in the middle of this disagreement but I have a general question. I keep hearing this "reskinned" excuse for lack of value? Not again defending Stern or this title but Other than the general layout how many parts were Actually reused from Seawitch?? A few similar screws? I would bet 95% of this game and its mechs are of new design and creation. Its not like they simply pulled out some NOS Seawitch games and added a new decal. Yes I would have been upset IF this Was a Seawitch non licensed Vault at this price but Seriously does Anyone think a Beatles license would be cheap or that they simply pulled this game off a shelf? I too want a Rolex but my budget is fine without the fancy name to just buy a Citizen even though it Looks like a reskin.
Us poors have to stick together.
20181115_141038 (resized).jpgQuoted from ZMeny:I purchased a JJPOTC so the watch had to be pawned....[quoted image]
I hope that was a nicer watch then my citizen. Hocking it probably wouldn't get me a POTC lock bar.
I personally hate the term world under glass every bit as much as I do grail and bolted to the floor. So I couldn't bring myself to watch this episode. Looking forward to the next one though. Maybe another review?
Quoted from ZMeny:I’m sorry you’re allergic to fun.....
Highly, carry an EpiPen at all times incase any fun breaks out.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Why would you hate something that is real? World under glass is real, Grail is also real, bolted to the floor is real but people usually end up changing their minds about that one.
Are you saying though that you dont enjoy looking at the artwork, lights, and toys inside a pinball machine? If thats the case what attracts you to this hobby anyway?
I like to play pinball. I enjoy a lot of good games that certainly do not fit any of that criteria. I never walk up to a game and think, wow, look at that world under there. I'm thinking lets play some pinball. There's no game to complete all games that I must have that is some make believe grail. They are all just pinball machines that I play and enjoy. It's just weird to me that someone cherishes a pinball machine in that way. I could get that if it had some emotional family tie in or something but other than that it's just plain weird to me. Whatever makes someone happy though, it certainly doesn't harm me in anyway. I'm just not that attached to stuff like that.
And bolted to the floor is the least real, no one bolts a game to their floor and everyone that says that sells the game at some point or if they are in the 0.001% that actually meant it whoever has to close their estate sells them anyway.
Quoted from ZMeny:Well, at least you’re prepared hahaha. There’s some good comedy in that episode though, go ahead, you know you wanna
You are going to do top 10 grails and top 10 games bolted to your floor next just to spite me. I can feel it coming.
Quoted from Who-Dey:If you dont get any enjoyment out of looking at all the toys and neat things in a pinball machine you should just buy old EM's and save yourself alot of money. I don't personally have a grail pin but i do believe that its real to some people for various reasons.
The episode is actually a pretty good one though and its got some funny parts in there also. Lighten up and quit being such a old prude! Lol
Quoted from TheLaw:This sums it up pretty perfectly these days. People that love playing pinball machines and people that love looking at pinball machines.
Got to go with TheLaw on this one. I never walk in my game room and look at my games. I couldn't tell you what the side art is on a bunch of games I own lol. I slide them in their spot and play them till I'm done with them.
Quoted from anathematize:to each his/her own.
part of the reason I truly enjoy pinball is the marriage of artistry and engineering that goes into making something so intricate. the gameplay is obviously the bread and butter... but man... i can't see how somebody who enjoys this hobby doesn't at least take a second to appreciate the mastery that goes into creating these - gasp - worlds under glass.
Everyone should enjoy the hobby in their own way. But you have to factor in the 7 months you are frozen in. Got to do something until May
Quoted from Who-Dey:Man thats too bad because you're not getting the full enjoyment out of this hobby imo. I love looking at my games and im actually fascinated by all of the lights and toys and artwork, and im really proud of them. I also love playing them too.
I generally walk in my game room, look around and think "you dumb shit, you could retire 5 years earlier instead of buying these". Then the other side of my brain says "meh" and I turn one on and start playing.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Lol you crack me up Law. I got rugs in front of my games because i dont want my carpet gett worn or dirty where people stand all the time, is that ok? Can i still be in the "players" group?
No
Quoted from TheLaw:Are the games visible or are the under special pinball blankets?
If so, are they customized with the manufacturer or specific games printed on them?
Are there Mats/rugs in front of the games?
Is so,...
These are some questions that helps separate which of the many groups you belong to.
I bought a Nikon D5 just so that I could capture the best overhead image of my games. I then have custom pinball protectors made that has the playfield picture on them so I can still enjoy them while protecting my grail investment. It takes me 20 minutes to get a game unwrapped to play but it is worth the effort.
Quoted from Bublehead:Listen, what you two do in the privacy of your own homes is not any of my business... but smoking ass is not something recommended by the American Cancer Society...
Smoking ass only causes cancer in California. Read your labels before you lecture us about safety.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I didnt say that i could beat him, i said what if i did? Take Zach for example, he is a big world under glass guy and he loves modding his games and is damn good at it btw, and he even uses the word "pretty" all the time, which i think he needs his man card pulled for that probably but he's also a player and could kick most people's asses in pinball all day long. So my point is, you can be a player and someone who looks at their games both.
I'm beginning to think his skills on camera may involve heavy editing. There's a rumor that cftbl is smoking Zach's ass right now.
Quoted from TheLaw:Probably should change it to vaping ass these days I guess.
Not sure why, but that sounds significantly worse.
Quoted from ZMeny:5. None of my gameplay is edited, how dare you haha, and Creech does kick my ass. Side note, why is it more difficult for me to get a Super on Creech than stacking all three multiballs I’m BSD?
Because it's a lot harder then stacking the three bsd multiballs.
Quoted from ZMeny:Anyone have a Prem/LE Guardians to sell me? I’ve been itching for one again.
Have you checked with Bob?
For me CCC is fun for a little bit but that's only because I don't get to play one very often. The layout is super easy to shoot and it's a very long ball time game. It's hard for me to enjoy any game that I have ball times that long on consistently. They just tend to get old real fast. The continued software is fun and it shows you that CC can be a decent game with more code. I'd still take MB over it due to layout, toys, theme, etc but both are pretty highly overrated in my opinion. I completely get why people like either or both but neither are really my cup of tea.
I agree that CC is very likely to be next. I think it's going to be a much tougher sale though then the first three. The demand for this game is much lower and the market is likely to be even more saturated at that time. I'm hoping that CGC releases and original title soon and just starts using the remakes for some fillers to keep the line busy. They are out of the 3 sure bets for remakes now so it's time to start paving their own path. Doesn't mean the remakes won't continue to be successful, I just don't see them selling several thousand of any of the others.
As for the software, CC really isn't worth owning, certainly not for the price. CCC made it into a fun game and something that both collectors and players could enjoy. There's a ton of extra code there though so CGC will have it's work cut out if they plan on providing an equal product to CCC, and it will need to be at least that good to sell or stay in collections.
Quoted from ZMeny:46
We try to find a balance between our type of comedy and being decent...enough. My biggest struggle has always been when one of us says something a bit too distasteful, but being comedy gold at the same time.
45
I found those 1980's gym shorts in your unboxing video rather distasteful....
Quoted from Bublehead:31
I rode the bourbon train from 2005 to 2010 because I lived in the heart of Ky in Frankfort, about a half mile from the Buffalo Trace Distillery. And yes, I drank a lot of great bourbon for cheap... we used to buy Pappy Van Winkle 23yr reserve for under $275 a bottle as gifts for friends, and Blantons was under $80
[quoted image]
You could buy blantons for $60 at most liquor stores 5 years ago. Then the single barrel collector craze started and now everyone is more worried about what figurine is on top of the bottle more then what's in the bottle.
20181117_145715 (resized).jpgQuoted from Bublehead:The Munsters is just an Addams Family knockoff cash grab trying to masquerade as a Monster Bash remake killer. That ought to get a rise out of somebody... who-dey?
I'm just glad its not another Aerokiss or gaurdians of Metallica.
Quoted from TheLaw:Munsterbash?
It's more of a Gaurdians of the Munsterbash from the looks of it.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Deadpool was designed by Gomez, Munsters is designed by John Borg. No comparison dude!
Quoted from Bublehead:That is the hope in the speculation thread, but after playing DP, compared to IMDN, and looking at all the more recent Stern titles, and at the leaked layout and the possible toys, my gut tells me this will not be as epic as everyone hopes. If you love the Munsters, I hope it meets your expectations, but for me, it adds up to a pass. I will get to play one soon enough, as my pin league is full of early adopters who will have one on order as soon as it goes on sale. For the love of pinball, I hope I am wrong.
I own both. I actually like DP quite a bit more then IMDN. Neither have much in the way of toys but both have unique layouts, unique code, and are really fun to play.
I'm not sure how you can add something up to a pass that you haven't seen yet Bublehead
Quoted from Bublehead:who-dey, I give... of course no comparison, they just have almost the exact same set of parts... cabinet, legs, playfield, display, flippers, ramps, lights, sounds, power supply, rubbers, posts, translites, backboxes, plungers, troughs, wire, and electronic components all designed to waste time in exchange for money. Hmm... nope no similarities at all. My take on Munsters is this machine will be just another meh Stern title, and I am not that excited by it. Everyone wants it to be sooooo goooood, yet why can’t some of us expect it to be reeeeal baaaaad and express their opinion as such?
Why would you expect it to be real bad? I don't think any recent stern or JJP release has been real bad. All are fun enough to play even if they are not all games I want to own. Do you really think all those modern games are bad or are you just being overly critical of stern?
Quoted from Bublehead:That’s easy, I add up all the previous titles by Stern and divide that into the number of really enjoyable Stern titles and then use that and the limited playfield Munster pics as input into my difference engine and turn the crank... it does not come up good for Munsters... no matter who is designing it. I made sure and played a lot of all the machines at Expo this year. Every one of the new machines with the exception of POTC and MBrLE made me ultimately yawn. They were fun but not as much fun to me as POTC or MB. So between the two, we decided to go old school remake instead of POTC, which was because of theme, not gameplay. Here, theme, not gameplay makes me question Munsters. We are an Addams Family, not a Munsters household, we would buy TAFr in a heartbeat, and we pass on Munsters...
Thats how.
If your yawning while playing new pinball maybe it's not the pinball machines? Even weirder to me that you brought up TAF as a must buy when that is one of the most repetitive snooze fests that exists. Brilliant for its time, great to drop some quarters in, cool toys and theme integration, but an absolute snoozer in the home environment. After about a week the Thing hand is like watching paint dry and you would give anything just to make it stop.
I'm going to need to see your work on your new pinball sucks equation to determine that it was calculated correctly
Quoted from Who-Dey:That's like comparing the hottest chic on the planet to a 500 pound woman. You are probably the only person in the world that thinks Deadpool is better than IMDN lol.
Come on man thats just crazy talk Gentry!
Sure there's things that IMDN does better. But for me it takes itself too serious. No real lighthearted moments in that game and that sucks a lot of the fun out of it for me. I'm not alone either. There have been a bunch of LEs and premiums selling 1k or more below original price lately.
Dont get me wrong, it's a great game, I just prefer a little different style of game.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Greg whats wrong with these people??? Is the whole world going crazy or just these 2 people?? lol
I bet even Zach likes IMDN over DP
This or that....IMDN or DP and 500 dollars?
I can confirm that I'm crazy.
I'll take the Deadpool and I'll give the poor guy with IMDN the $500 for his troubles
Quoted from ZMeny:Imdn over dp without a doubt. Buuuut Gentry’s my boy and I know that he does like that DP
Well that came out wrong haha
Quoted from ZMeny:Had a blast at Pincinnati. Chuck Wurt and gang, nice first show! I even caught up with ol WhoDey. Trying to lure him over to the Zach Side.
[quoted image]
Careful whodey. You read what he wanted to do with me, now hes trying to lure you somewhere.
Yeah, Zach and Greg both have gotten really damn good to have only been in the hobby for a short time.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Hell yeah they are. Zach blew up ACNC! I was wanting to play it but his game lasted 45 minutes seemed like so i said heck with it and had to settle for that old junky MBR sitting beside it.
All kidding aside, MBR is freakin unbelievably awesome and one of the most beautiful games that i have ever laid my eyes on. All i can say is OMG for real! If Munsters disappoints me by some chance i am going to be looking real hard at a MBR SE probably.
MBr does look great and is really well done. I just cant get excited about it. I just have a been there done that feeling with that game.
Quoted from Bublehead:After playing a nice Tron LE, when I walk up to a Tron Pro, my overwhelming thought is:
“What’s the point?”
You can add the EL lighting very easily and most already have it. Otherwise it's the same game minus drop targets which are a negative in my opinion because you can no longer bank the Gem shot and a mode that most people never see. For about 5K less for very close to the same game I'm more of the opinion "whats the point of the LE"?
Quoted from ZMeny:That’s an impressive Top 10 there Gentry. I couldn’t argue against any
Glad to see both of your changes of heart on SW. It really is a great game, no clue why so many bag on it.
Nah, you guys are making it way to complicated. Set a timer and in 30 seconds spit out your 10 favorite games. Not ones that you will never sell because it's a HEP restore, or this was your first games, or my son likes this one, or whatever the reason it. Just the first 10 games that come to mind when you picture your favorites to play.
Quoted from ZMeny:Greg is the Cleveland Browns of pinball hahaha
So he's horrible but still able to beat the Titans every time they play......
Quoted from TheLaw:Horrible and riddled with MRSA?
Sometimes you don't clean the locker rooms or work out areas. I mean the Haslam's only have so much money.
Quoted from iceman44:LOL....are you kidding me. He was a LONG ways away and his buddies need to be ashamed of themselves for not joining in the fun.
Now if that was 10 shots of Tequila then I'd really be impressed!
Man it looks like a kick ass game. Nice job Frank.
No kidding, 7 shots of rum is just a fun time. I had 10 shots of tequila along with a few other drinks the last time I was in Cabo, it's a no bueno
Quoted from Bublehead:As a fellow MBrLE awaitee and a fan of POTC, let me try and help you out. That MBrLE will be made, sold, and gone. That is almost a certainty. The number of POTC to be built is not a finite number or published like the 1250 MBrLE that will be produced. So you have to ask yourself how lucky you feel and whether or not a Monster Bash will stay in your collection like a POTC will. If you pass on MBrLE, finding one in the future might be harder than finding a POTC. It's up to you to decide which one is more fun on a long term basis and if you pass on POTC now, will finding one later be harder than finding an MBrLE? Which one will hold it's value best? Sitting side by side, the light show of MB tends to outshine POTC, but Pirates is a sweet and fun shooter. If the wife didn't hate the franchise, it might have had a shot in our collection.
Meh, why is every one so obsessed over the LE stuff. You can just get at standard edition and be just fine if the LE's sell out and you want a NIB. Or buy a HUO MBRLE as they will be available often as 1250 is far from limited. That's more then any stern LE by 450 and all of the stern LE's pop up for sale pretty often HUO and filled with expensive mods.
Quoted from SheriffBarclay:Zach and Greg and friends,
Talk me in/out of trying to sell/transfer my MBrLE spot and getting a JJP POTC.
I'm a (below) average player and my favorite shooting pin is DI (still only get 1-2 sim cards every ten plays).
I just got into the hobby this year and this would be my first pin. Probably my only pin for several months.
I love playing jjp potc on location. I enjoy MB as well, but have only played it 5-10 times. The remake looks beautiful.
Both are very good games. You will likely like MB better for a while but prefer POTC in the long run.
Quoted from SheriffBarclay:Well, it's official. Thanks a lot, STDM and friends. Between Zach's rum run unboxing, the suggestions here, and multiple hours played on location, I've now got an LE on order as my first and only pin.
[quoted image]
Congrats, I'm sure you will love it. But dont lie to us about it being your only pin, that's just not how this works
The rule set is very much an offshoot of MM and MB.
I've never understood some of the negatives that SM gets. Great game loaded with shots. The back third of the playfield is as stuffed as any game. The toys are good enough. The main negative is it's an easy game. Removing the center post helps that a lot though. It's strange to see so many trip over themselves for MMr, AFMr, and MBr but bag on SM which is very similar in many ways but with more shots.
Quoted from ZMeny:I would have likely chose SM but the correct choice would have been POTC
I dont know man. Its loaded and different but the sinking ship mech is a trainwreck. Plus very little flow, a weird feed that bounces off the top of the right sling, and it's crazy easy. Getting to four winds is super easy and happens all the time. I know theres plenty more after that but it's pretty tedious from that point on. I dont mind a shallow game but that feed bouncing off the top of the sling drives me crazy.
Quoted from ZMeny:I would pass on all three titles.
Don't be fibbing. I saw 2 of the 3 in a trailer getting pulled by a truck you were riding in just a few weeks ago......
But you are really right, by today's standards none of them hold up great.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Whaaaaat? This might be the greatest toy ever put in a pinball machine.
It's super cool, it's always broke or disabled though because it not designed great. Pretty cool attempt though.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Says the guy who bought Deadpool! Bwaaaa haaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa
I like deadpool a lot better then those 3.
Quoted from Who-Dey:This or that....
DP Pro or RZ + 2k cash?
RZ actually has some fun modes and is pretty unique. No doubt take it and the 2K. You can sell it for $4500 and with the 2k upgrade to a top 20 title easy.
Quoted from Who-Dey:No you got to keep the game, not sell it.
I wouldn't buy any game if that was the case. They all get old.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Id take DP 100% and be happy as hell about it.
If you get RZ in a home setting it's not nearly as bad as people think. Unique layout with some easy and some really hard shots, adult theme with profanity, crude heckling, and nudity, fun unique modes, 6 ball multiball, actual call outs by Rob, his wife, and Captain Spaulding, and cool unique art. It doesn't come close to having the smoothness or polish of most sterns or any jjp games but in a decent sized lineup it's a super fun change of pace game. I really enjoyed mine for the 16 months I owned it.
Quoted from Bublehead:I want to thank everyone for their honest responses... at the time, ops were kind of mad about SPOTC and the sinking ship and airballs... a mod came out to put up poly carb blast armor around it and it started to survive more than a day on site. Spiderman was a great shooter, but the depth of the ruleset compared to Family Guy and the fact that the original heavy metal music package was not what either my wife or I had in mind to listen to for the next umpteen years, we opted for Family Guy, a Lawlor design which we thought might hold it’s value due to the popularity of the TV show.
You have to remember, my thinking was not clouded by a lot of choices for a NIB (or NOB post Expo bargain) HUO pin at the time. I mean we were looking down the barrel of what we thought might be the end of pinball, the titles coming out were 24 and CSI... and as a better than average player, I was looking for more depth than Spiderman, which was kind of a tried and true straight forward ruleset, SPOTC which was ok, but might be a maintenance nightmare (as ops and players alike were complaining about) or you take the latest Pat Lawlor design, and the one with the MOST callouts in the history of recent pinball (in 2008 at least) and that it was $3500 with 255 plays on it (MSRP was like $5700, which meant you could get it for $4k to $5k NIB depending)
So, FGuy was not a bad choice, for me, for $3500 in 2008. At least I know I can most likely break even if I sold it now.
FG isnt a bad game at all. I'd say you did really well at that price. You got a game you've enjoyed for a decade and it can be sold for a small profit if pinball stays halfway relevant.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Spiderpin:Episode 61. Zack you said Ringo Starr was the worst Beatle. Not, that would be Pete Best. I Think that's why he was replaced by, wait for it...................
Ringo Starr
Happy New Year SDTM and Family
F Ringo and his Octopus's Garden
Not much else I add to that 
Quoted from Spiderpin:And the stern pin too.
It's actually fun, unlike a certain Beatles songs.
3 months later
Quoted from Who-Dey:Agree, this game is nothing special at all. It is the first game ever to have "kid multiball" though lol. JJP better get their act together fast or they are going to be in trouble i am afraid.
I don't think this is really true. I would say the layout looks pretty special. The way it looked to shoot looks pretty special. So you have a really well designed layout that looks to shoot awesome. That is 2 pretty key things in a game.
For me what doesn't come together is the art, theme, and sounds. I just have no desire to own a game based on a theme I don't care anything for or have any connection to for the price these are going for. The movie is just pretty weird to me. I get that others like it and I'm happy they have a game coming for a theme that they personally like. The callouts and sounds were just pretty blah sounding to me much like DI. The art is a real head scratcher to and something that I think is a big step back for JJP. The CE looks good. It looks as good as WOZ does. Why do you have to spend 12.5K to get as good of art that all of the versions of WOZ have had because to me the LE is a big step down art wise and the standard is borderline a joke. It's like a system 11 art package at best. I'm also not a big fan of the camera's that Pat seems to like so much but to each their on.
No there is nothing terribly inventive on the game but there doesn't have to be. All it needs to be is a good game that plays good, gets code support, doesn't have any major mech failures, and people are going to be happy with it. I think it's going to do pretty well for JJP and hopefully they learn some lessons from it and keep moving forward.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Zach we love ya buddy and we all know you wouldn’t be dishonest and push a product that you don’t believe in just to make a few bucks, but dude you’re choosing Kid Multiball over Iron Maiden lol! Please stop or we’re going to have to pull your man card bro! Oh yeah and one more thing, your wife’s ass isnt the only one you kiss, did you forget about Gregs moms ass?
In defense of Zach, he was trying to buy my IMDN the other day. So you will have to decide if he gets to keep his card or not. Also some weirdo that enslaves pinkish purple little people and murders children during factory tours could be considered manly in a Stephen King disturbing kind of way....
1 week later
Quoted from ZMeny:Uh oh, get ready...
To be fair this isn't an accurate description. Zach was hiding what we could only assume was a dirty sanctum under that ugly non playfield matching grey sticker. Now we will never know if the next sanctum is dirtier or not.
Quoted from ZMeny:SEASON 3 SDTM Episode 89: This Month In Pinball is back and the guys discuss Black Knight, Willy Wonka, and general inappropriate topics...
Fun episode guys. Glad to see some love for Deadpool. Easily my favorite NIB purchase and a game that I just don't get tired of.
Quoted from ZMeny:You two are harshing my mellow. If you’re going to have a battle, at least do it on an upcoming TWIP podcast episode haha.
I agree. A Bengals fan makes an American political joke that a Canadian takes serious. I'm still trying for figure out why Darscot was offended to begin with? A very confusing and continuing chain of responses.
Quoted from Gunnut40:Damn Greg! Deadpool really? Might as well be hello kitty. Theme is terrible! It's supposed to be deadpool. Lame
Almost as cool as Twister, not quite though.
Quoted from Who-Dey:You would really take Beatles over these games here? Im not buying it sorry. [quoted image]
Not sure why so many of you find that hard to believe. I'd take The Beatles over that top 5 with out a blink. Pinside's top 10 is certainly not my top 10. People that prefer brutal addictive gameplay are going to get bored with those 5 games tons faster then they will The Beatles.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Because comparing the Beatles to any 5 of those games is like comparing a super model to a woman that weighs 500 pounds.
Lol, that sounds a lot more ridiculous. I know you really like that 500lb woman (and there's nothing wrong with that) but me and Zach are rolling with the super model 
4 weeks later
Haven't looked at this thread in a little bit and just got caught back up. I would say ACNC is smooth shooting but tight. I'm not sure why so many people insist on being rewarded for missed shots with tiny stand up targets but to each their own. I would say it's Spooky's best game by a decent margin and I'd call it a solid B.
As for the team Greg verses team Zach. People may line up with team Greg but they watch because of team Zach. The most popular things that people watch or listen too always have something you like and something to get you worked up about. Sorry Greg, but views would plummet if Zach wasn't there to bring out the online stalker in some of these guys. It's the combo of both that makes it special.
The top 10 shots list is awful, that's as nice as I can put it. You 2 have terrible tastes in pinball..... lol
Quoted from ZMeny:Hahaha Gentry the last part was my favorite. Can we at least agree on the shadow and swpremle?
Eh, if you are going with TS you got to go with the upper flipper orbit or comboing the diverter ramps (just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's not awesome). You picked at best the 4th best shot on the game. I like the SW premium shot a good bit even though it is a bit finicky. Not sure it would make my top 10 though. I'm with TheLaw on the MB shot. If you are dead set on a sweeping shot that turns into a wire form isn't the right orbit on CV a million times better? I'd have to think about it a good amount but I think my top 10 might include 3 of your shots lol. It's just an opinion and all in good fun though.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Yeah. The right ramp on GB pro might be the worst ramp ever designed in pinball.
It's got to be close, it's so unsatisfying for me. The premium/le is much better but still not that great. I found the center ramp on Thunderbirds to be pretty terrible but it wasn't the upgraded ramp so maybe it's a small notch above GB now lol.
1 week later
Quoted from Darscot:I personally want Zach to review every pin. Being a distributor only expands his expertise and experience with pins. He has never given me any reason to not trust him to give an honest opinion. The other thing I would really enjoy is just putting the whole topic to rest. Sometimes you just have to ignore the vocal minority on the internet. I am sure there are way more people that want to hear Zachs opinion than the select few that drone on with skepticism about his integrity. Why can people not just self adjust information they receive like they do with every other thing on earth. If a salesman pitches a little too hard I take it with a grain of salt, I don't drone on that he should not be allowed to speak and no one else should get to hear his opinion. If you think Zacks too much of a salesman deal with it but I suspect the vast majority of us that enjoy the show want to hear what he has to say.
It's real simple. Zach depends on stern, jjp, ap, etc to keep him as a distributor. If he openly dislikes a game or gives it a bad review on a podcast or video he risks damaging his relationship with that company and they will either remove him as a distributor or say F you when there is a hot title and cut back his allotment. So it's really not in Zach's best interest to do what a few people keep asking for. If you want his opinion just call him and ask and he will shoot as straight with you as he can. Add in that once you become friends with some of the artist, coders, and designers it becomes pretty crappy to bash something online that people worked hard on knowing you will hurt them. It's not really reasonable to expect this from Zach anymore.
Quoted from Darscot:Its not like they trash any pin. The love pinball they have never been guys that shit all over anything. They are always respectful and positive I don't know what show you are watching. Why does everything always have to be so extreme and petty. Do you actual believe Stern is like our pins get all A+ or fuck you and all the revenue and positivity your show brings to our brand.
Yes, they are always respectful and overall pretty positive. And Yes, stern or JJP would absolutely be pissed when Zach rates their newest game a C and doesn't sell very many of them and would absolutely put him on their shit list. The business world is not all rainbows and butterflies and pinball in general is niche and extremely cut throat. You are asking Zach to literally screw himself for your own entertainment. He's not a beat reporter that has to report the truth at all costs, he is just a hobbyist that has a great show and podcast and has turned his hobby into a side business. You can easily read between the lines and know what Zach thinks without him damaging relationships that he relies for his business.
Quoted from gliebig:I think it should be required that he do at least 10 shots of rum before each filming.
That will loosen his lips lol. Or we can send him a selection of craft beer to pound during the show.
Quoted from Darscot:I suspect its all the BS and negativity from internet but I don't want to read between the lines or put words in anyones mouth. I think its that people will not stop with the backhanded cheap shot at his integrity by suggesting he wont be honest about a product he sells because its business. I can't imagine him trying to peddle a machine to people because he hasn't sold many of them over a more popular pin. I don't pretend to have intimate details into his life but I'm pretty sure he was secure and successful before following his passion that is pinball. He is not some snake oil salesman trying to make a dollar. This view that everything is so petty and shitty, Stern and JJP would be pissed off and put him on the shit list over a comment on his show. Real people have real relationships with each other that are normal and reasonable. They don't throw tantrums and have a naughty list and monitor what everyone says and does. If a title doesn't meet expectations Stern and JJP don't just blame it on the SDTM review and ignore all of the wonderful aspects of what the SDTM crew are doing for the business. I feel like I've had my two cents and I need to follow my own advice and just let this topic die. I really don't understand how people get through their day thinking everything is so negative.
Zach is far from a schill or snake oil salesman and I never once insinuated anything like that. He will absolutely shoot straight with you if you want to talk to him about buying a game or if you just want to shoot the shit with him about pinball. If you think companies are not petty and do not use their leverage against distributors you are clueless on this and must not actually know any distributors.
There is a huge difference between Zach talking to you about a game in person or on the phone and him posting a video review spelling out all of it's failures for anyone to click on. If you think purchasing a pinball company that has a decent inventory is cheap or also does not come with some large risks you are fooling yourself. The new person on the block has to protect themselves and their relationships, not doing so would be incredibly stupid. I also have no clue how you come up with my comments as being negative, I like Zach, Greg and their show and am nothing but supportive. I would never give people I like terrible advise that could screw up their chance at a successful business. That is not negativity, that is friendship. All I am doing is trying to explain to some of you that just can't seem to get it that what you are asking is not is Zach's best interest in any way, shape, or form.
Quoted from Who-Dey:You are 100% correct Gentry and this is EXACTLY what i was saying a year or so ago about being biased. You even yourself downvoted me for saying EXACTLY what you are saying right now. You simply cannot review a product of someone that you are friends or. Usiness partners with and be unbiased!
I wasn't being a dick when i said it, i was just being honest. I totally understand their situation, especially now that Zach is a distributor, only an idiot wouldn't understand that. None of what i said makes Zach and Greg bad people unless they push products that they don't believe in and they do not do that.
Zach and Greg are in a position now to where they gotta watch what they say. Honestly if i were them i would probably just scrap ths show. Its a lot of work and it doesnt mean a hill if beans anyways truthfully.
Zach and Greg are good peoole and i guarantee you if i called Zach and ask him what he thinks about a certain game that he would tellme that it sucks if he thinks it sucks but if course he cant go on Youtube and blast it all over the internet, that would be dumb and instant death of his business.
See ole Who Dey ain't so dumb after all, maybe people should start listening to him a little more, including YOU Gentry! And for all the people ragging on Zach, get a f*cking life, hes a great guy and totally honest and straight up about things. If you want to know the details about a certain game then call and talk to him. He's a great distributor and he will be up front with you.
You cant take those downvotes personal Who-Dey, otherwise The Law will slowly steal all of our souls.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I know that but you still did it and i am going to remind you of it lol. You literally downvoted me for saying EXACTLY what you are saying now so say you're sorry and i will forgive you!
20190608_141217 (resized).jpgQuoted from Who-Dey:Lol you're a Dick! Get off your lazy ass and cut that grass!
Tough, but fair.
1 week later
Quoted from Rockytop:Thanks! I guarantee it’s way better than any list jgentry could conjure up.
Eat a bag of dicks Clayton And the magnet shot on TZ? Most of them have to have a mod added to even work. Your list is voided just based on that nonsense alone.......
Quoted from Who-Dey:I agree, that Gentry guy sucks! He wont even keep his grass cut.
I'm letting it return to it's natural state.
Quoted from Rockytop:I'm still looking for your list...
I'm guessing it will feature a lot of the shots on Magic Girl.
Sorry Kenny, it's hard to understand you with Pat Lawlor's balls in your mouth.
The TZ magnet shot is garbage, the ngg shot is complete luck. I mean your list isnt sdtm shot list bad or anything, but that bar is pretty low
Quoted from ZMeny:HEEEEYYY!!!
Lol
Quoted from Rockytop:I know this topic makes you feel inadequate, as the only shot in pinball you can make on purpose is the pop up bug on Starship Troopers.
In time your bitterness will fade as you realize your more of a candy crush player than a pinball player.
That brain bug is a tight shot, sometimes I'm able to nail it though.
1. Thunderbirds center ramp
2. MG, all of its shots
3. STTNG upper flipper left ramp
4. Tron Gem shot
5. GB right ramp
6. TZ upper playfield magnet shot
7. Wrestlemania, every shot that feeds the ring
8. Kiss starchild shot
9. TH, all of its shots
10. IJ mode start
As requested, the best 10 shots in pinball. Oddly enough my joke list includes one from sdtm and Rockybottom.
Quoted from newovad:I hate to change the subject, but what's up with this?
FlipFlop n Out Pinball[quoted image]
But he has those cool gloves to scream into when the game smashes his little piggies.
1 month later
Everyone do yourself a favor and start this episode at 8:40 in.....
Other then 8 minutes of coffee, it was a fun show.
Quoted from Looking4FirstPin:With Greg’s love of Jurassic Park, is it possible that Stern will let you guys in to interview Keith Elwin and team for Episode 100? You’ve done it with JJP and AP, perhaps Stern is next?
Stern should if they want a professional looking video that helps them sell games and costs them little to nothing.
3 weeks later
Quoted from delt31:funny b/c I have GB LE with two ghosting inserts and I never even notice them. IMO that was totally overrated but I wouldn't tell folks to ignore it and buy more NIB. This is actually going to lead to cracking in the PF which is way more serious!
I'm in for a premium but I'm not touching NIB right now. If you value money I would suggest everyone reading this thread to do the same. It also shows stern and JJP were not going to be mindless zombies and buy games with obvious defects.
If you value money you wouldn't be wasting it on pinball in general.
4 weeks later
Quoted from rai:Is it too soon for a this or that JP v DP v Maiden?
It's never too soon. I'd go DP, JP, IMDN in that order. The worst shooter wins because it's just light hearted awesome fun with incredible code.
1 year later
Quoted from ZMeny:Ugh. I just realized that some people on Pinside are incapable of enjoying life.
Some people can't take a joke Zach. I'll stick with not having either yours or Greg's face on my junk but I did think it was funny.
Quoted from zpinman370:His face on your junk may just make you BUY, BUY, BUY
More likely to have a cold water affect.
9 months later
Great reveal video and great first impressions from Zach and Greg. I really enjoyed both of those. As for the game I'm looking forward to playing it and I'm sure it will be fun. Hard to find 12k reasons to buy it though. I can't help but feel like it was the unmasking at the end of every scooby-doo and underneath the mask was a stern pro with powder coat. Time will tell on this one but with JJP's long record of qc and playfield issues, questionable coding paths, and the lack of anything to interact with in the game, it's a real easy wait and see.
1 month later
If you don't like Zach and Greg just don't watch their content. Geez the world is filled with whiny little babies. If you are actually offended by this stuff it's very likely that you are just jealous of their success.
As for the review. Haven't played it, TS4 was a lame movie, the game is a Stern pro for 12k. It's going to take a massive hit on the used market. Hard pass for me. JJP is going the opposite direction from WOZ and the magic is long gone.
1 month later
6 months later
Quoted from delt31:Short answer - yes they did. I know, embarrassing.
I haven’t checked this thread in months b/c SDTM does their thing to sell games but I noticed the same thing after watching their recent “impressions” video. I always appreciate everything pinball so I’m watching but this is a new low. And after playing GF in person, hands on, I have to say that this is the absolute worst I’ve seen of these two and your comment around them calling shots as toys is exactly the problem.
This whole thing started off as a fun journey of two hobbiest to providing their perspective but now that both of them are embedded in distributing, it’s getting disgusting. Yes - they said shots are now toys. Why? B/c GF basically has no toys but they need to sell it. After playing it, the fact that there are barely any toys is SO apparent. Yet these two provide impressions like it’s all good. How they sleep at night with no guilty conscious is an achievement.
I’m going to post my full impressions on the GF thread and I’ll say the same thing here as well. SDTM is now an absolute joke now and as someone that contributed money to these two earlier on to provide their perspective, unless something significantly changes, it’s like giving money to ford to review their new mustang. What I find the best about these two is that they created an awards show so they could actually win that pinball podcast award which Zach so desperately wants but the public won’t give him, and for good reason.
And they have my number - they texted me earlier to connect……fellas any day if you want to run through what is going on. Short solution - stop being such a bunch of shills. And I know I’m on their thread so the kool aid drinkers will look to defend but anyone with half a brain can see wtf is going on with these two.
You really do have an unhealthy obsession with SDTM. You should really be asking yourself why you keep watching videos by people that you clearly hate. Why do things that make yourself miserable. Why in the world would they waste a second of their life on you when this is what you constantly post about them?
Quoted from metallik:I didn't get any hate from his post, it sounds like he enjoys their show but just wants them to be a little more critical of the games they review.
Embarrassing, disgusting, how do you sleep at night, etc... Seems pretty hateful to me. Maybe that is just how some people talk to each other though.
Pretty easy to see how this game turned out looking so good. That's a dream team for making a pinball machine and they are mostly fresh with years of pinball ideas built up. Stern did something sort of similar with The Beatles, but this absolutely blows that out of the water and I really like The Beatles. A real blend of 80's B/W with just enough to make it modern and hopefully make it last in a collection. Stunning design and man does it really draw you in. It's good to see a game that doesn't feel like it was rushed or anything on it was forced. The older style won't be for everyone but a lot of people are going to love this thing.
Can't wait to pour a glass of bourbon and give this thing a spin.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Thank you Greg and Zach for another great well produced video! You guys have a ton of passion for this hobby and it shows (as of course does the team that made this game).
I probably won't buy this product but it certainty looks cool and I hope to play one on location. It's really cool to see a 70's / 80's looking pin being made in 2023. It is a bit of a bummer not to see at least a small LCD on the playfield or apron to play animations and movie clips.
I get why some people would want a screen as we are so used to them now. But to me the story plays out on the playfield and it makes it feel a lot truer to the era they were going for. It won't be for everyone, but no game is.
3 months later
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