You gotta get out of the honeymoon period before you have any perspective. You know that. I fell into that trap and ignored my own rule, thinking Dialed In could dethrone WoZ initially, but it became obvious after playing it a lot that it's a double or a triple and not a home run.

Way to early to see where jjPotC falls, except that wherever it is, it will be ahead of Hobbit.

I played a Woz and a Dialed in last week and WOZ was better than i expected it would be. Not something i would buy personally but it definitely wasnt bad. Dialed in was ok also but i didnt think it was anything special either by any means, but to be fair i only played it a few times. It just didnt seem to thrill me for some reason. I just think that Pirates is going to impress, i have a good feeling about it.

Interesting. I own WOZ and DI, and I enjoy DI more. I often think I must be missing something when it comes to WOZ. I mostly keep it in the collection for guests who seem to be attracted to it.

I still find myself enjoying MMR and AFMR. I still haven’t finished them. Given my experience with these two, I suspect I’ll like MBR (I’ve never played it).

Well like i said, i have extremely limited play on both games so i may end up loving DI if i played it more. A person cant really tell too much about a game after only a few plays but i guess that i was expecting more from DI because of all the good things that ive heard about it. I have no doubts that it is a great game, i just need time on it. There is something about POTC though that tells me that its going to be special though. I hope to get to play one someday because it looks fun and it is a beautiful game!

I haven't played the new beta of DI, but my main problem is it gets old because the progression is very similar to Ghostbusters, but without the nostalgic bump to get you though. You're climbing the same ladders, uninterrupted and with very little variation, every time. It has way less multiballs than WoZ, and the "quick" multiballs are throwaways. They broke up the mode mode mode mode progression with the Chaos Multiball, and that helps, but there's very little actual integration of the theme in the gameplay itself. The city is under attack, I would have expected more "side" jobs like rescuing people or having the electrical guy go crazy and have him speed way up so you have to get him under control. Or maybe have the evil computer take over the selfie camera and take pictures while mocking you? The spiders are wasted, the drones are under-utilized, it's just a less cohesive package than WoZ.

That said, WoZ was no shining star at release, either. They seem committed to their software, so maybe DI will be less boring to play in a collection someday. Here's hoping. It could be much worse, though. At least it's not Hobbit.

Unjustified means without basis. Hobbit has all the bases covered for a less than favorable rating as a game. Graphics and music are top notch, but that can't sustain the love over time.

Same-y groups of modes, poor progression direction, and lacking "just one more game" feeling due primarily to ridiculously long ball times, but secondarily to boring gameplay (see:same-y mode grouping). There's a few more for you next time someone asks.

I'm not saying YOU can't like it. Just that there are definite reasons *I* don't. I'm not alone. It's literally the only JJP they're not making anymore. Jack gave up trying to sell it, and that's saying the MOST about market reception to the title (besides the low-and-falling resale values). Jack is tenacious - if HE gave up, you know it's bad.

It is better with the latest code update. Quite a bit so. I make myself think of it as a slower 1980's bally and I find I enjoy it more. Not a game I love but it's not terrible, it's very different which makes it good and bad.

I 100% agree that it's better now than it was, but still not good enough. I think most of it is just being hamstrung by a poor playfield design. There's not a lot you can do to make it fun, and JJP has DEFINITELY tried.

I'd rather have 4 actual choice 1980's Ballys than Hobbit.

I don’t think any new stern has half as many modes as hobbit. Haha

I dont know, a few are cool but most are a little meh.

Quality over quantity lol

I agree, I know it’s not for everyone but the hate is amazing to me. Hobbit is better than WOZ and DI, and I like those pins too. I haven’t played POTC yet so I don’t know if I will like it more or not.

Your pretty close money wise. Out with the old, in with the new.

My understanding is that JJP is going to build more hobbits. Did they announce that is not the case?

I don’t know about that. Theres some awesome modes in the hobbit. Basically the 2 star and up modes are pretty sweet and unique from one another. Then the 4 and 5 star modes might as well be mini wizard modes for how much you need to do in them.

More != better. See:same-y mode groups.

Last I heard they were done after Black Arrows stuck around like an unwanted in-law.

Loving the new shirt! Thanks Hollywoodbone and ZMeny

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Did you say you heard that from Jack or some one at JJP. Not saying your wrong, just wondering where you heard that.

Definitely the wrong thread to discuss JJP games, and which is best, but I think WOZ is prettier than hobbit. I just prefer shooting Hobbit over WOZ.

I bring this up because I hear often that Hobbit is the best looking, not sure I agree. And I can already hear the response, who cares what it looks like, gameplay is more important

So a few things....

DI is now the best game out there with the new code. I always thought it felt a little too prescriptive but the new code makes the theatre have a purpose along with all those random targets. It's an unbelievable update.

WoZ is a great game, not better than DI but better than Hobbit which itself got an amazing update but that pf designstill holds it back for me.

Even though Zach was so wrong about Houdini (still can't believe he said ToM was worse than Houdini - never forget!) he was totally right about the shadow. That game is great. I even like the music now. Bought my second one and yes Zach with color and some other mods it is no question a 4k+ game! I'm a believer!

4k virtual pin with force feedback with vpx software = a great addition to the pin lineup.

This and my posts, along with Zach and Chuck, just illustrate again how subjective game preference is...play em before you buy em, and get what YOU like

I like all the jjp games about the same. I've owned all 3 and honestly just didn't love any of them. If I was to get one again it would be WOZ but I'm not a fan of the layout. TH has the best sound, artwork, and screen work but I'm not a huge fan of layout on it either and more modes is not a better thing for me. DI shoots the best by a mile but the art, kiddy toys, phone, are hideous and the sound just grates on my last nerve. None of them really offer an exciting experience for me unfortunately. All well built well coded games from a good manufacturer but they just haven't made a game for me yet.

I agree about the drones and the spider. I still haven’t figured those out. “Spider value held” - ok, do I care?

Super vengeance all day.

This or that:

JJP Pirates and Stern Pirates or JJP Hobbit and Stern LOTR ???

But is it FUN? The answer for me (and the market at large where prices are depressed on Hobbit) is no. You can probably make a great flyer out of those points. However long the list, though, they do not make a FUN game. It's an elusive thing, and often the harder you try the more it slips through your fingers as a designer.

Bust away. Multiple viewpoints on a crappy game is a worthwhile conversation to have. I have a thick skin and titanium balls (don't ask). The Hobbit modes may be technically different on a bullet point list, but they have a very same-y feel, and that's the death knell for me. Shadow has double interactive diverters. That's WAY more fun that the passive stuff in Hobbit. Individually controlled drop targets SOUND awesome. In practice they're a noisy yawn after the newness wears off.

I love Shadow so much I made that Shadow plastic superset in the Gene era so everyone could have access to new plastics when the Sanctum plastic alone was $300 due to rarity. I just bought a CPR playfield for Shadow with the intent of pimping one out to perfection in the future again. I, too, LOVE Shadow. It's a player's game for sure.

I don't remember. It's been months, and I hear things from all angles.

These hobbit lover and hater back and forths are getting old. Perhaps someone can create a hobbit sucks thread and just rip it there and not in every other thread? Anyway, back to MBr or the next this or that.

I have one MM and ToM or AFM and MB. You can use remakes...

You will care in the updated code. Spiders drones etc they all matter now....

Hmm. Is it a public beta? I’ll have to go look. I need fix the sensor behind the drone rubber anyway. It’s permenantly depressed and on.

Is there a youtube mirror for us non-facebook types?

I'm starting to understand your love for Hobbit, and that's the first step to acceptance.

SDTM and friends,

I am digging MBr LE more and more and am starting to consider selling my hobbit (sigh) and getting the MBr LE. Good idea? This or That!?!?

I am dying here...

The skinny - It will be a single pin for home use situation.

Hobbit Points:
- Awesome for new and intermediate skill players
- Deep rules ideal for home use (so many modes you can play in any order - and the wizard modes are incredible)
- Amazing story telling game with JJP quality LCD and animations
- Move clips GALORE!
- Music and callouts are top notch (perhaps best to date in pinball) - especially after the 3.0 code
- I really enjoy owning and playing this pin

MBr Points:
- Best MB ever made
- No other points needed

So, what do you think? Keep Hobbit or get MBr!?!?

EDIT: MB is one of my favorite pins of all time...but Hobbit is as well.

Playing Hobbit pulls me in. My arms are usually sore and my neck tense after a few hours of gameplay. Rockin Beta v2.99 Have been starting the third minwizard mode - battle of five armies - since updating the code. Love being able to start a mode with 1- 4 balls.

MB will get old real fast if it's your only game IMO.