Quoted from ZMeny:Freaking Greg, I think he means data east.
FFS..Where did you find this guy? Vote change, back on team Zach.
(Topic ID: 180877)
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Stern, 2019
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Quoted from Beebl:FFS..Where did you find this guy? Vote change, back on team Zach.
Thank you and welcome back
Quoted from ZMeny:Thank you and welcome back
A guy writes one thing wrong..... 
To those concerned about the weighting criteria, I took a glance and attempted to summarize the categories. Each category was assigned to a single summary, except two - Toys/Innovation & Display/Animations, both which seemed to belong in two places. So the share of those categories were cut in half. As a result I see 3 parts (38%) LOOKS and 5 parts (62%) PLAY. That seems about the right mix to me, if not slightly heavy on the LOOKS. That is also probably the reason that the reviews end up close to where they belong imo.
Art - LOOKS
Shots/Layout - PLAY
Rules / Code - PLAY
Toys/Innovation - LOOKS & PLAY
Music/Callouts - PLAY
Display/Animations - LOOKS & PLAY
Theme - LOOKS
Enjoyability - PLAY
To dilute weighting of LOOKS you could add more PLAY categories or redefine existing LOOK categories. Most categories include two aspects, allowing either to be used. You will notice the one labeled Theme has one aspect. That is also the category that mucked up Zach’s perfect grading record. I suggest changing this category to Theme/Last-ability. That would allow one to recognize a game that has staying power even if one hated or loved theme too much.
In the same vein of renaming certain categories, I suggest changing Enjoyability to Enjoyability/One More Game. This would distinguish games like TWD from GB. Both are difficult and considered no fun by some, but only one may have that one more play feel that draws you back.
So Art would need another criteria and suggest renaming it Art-Cabinet/Translite/Playfield.
At the end of the day you would still have eight categories and the weighting would remain 38/62. What could use some real work is your number assigned per grade. A+, A, A- etc get how many points? This appears to have been loosely developed over time. I doubt the current summary is an average of existing numbers. I suggest the following values with a plus adding 5 points and minus subtracting 5 points. The values you settle on will affect all of your reviews given to date. You would need to go back and rescore each using the assigned grades and looking up its new value. If your C is not around 50 point and F is not below 25 points, you are not getting a full spread of values.
A = 95
B = 80
C = 50
D = 35
F = 20
If you apply these to your recent TNA review, you would find Greg's score added to 700, for an average of 87.5, exactly half way between B+ and A- and which rounds up to A-. Greg's existing rating is .... B+ slightly too low.
If you apply these to your recent TNA review, you would find Zach's score added to 690, for an average of 86.3, which is B+. Zach's existing rating is .... B+ for the match.
A wider spread of assigned values help distinguish between A-/B+. Although that is not much difference, it is something and it feels more accurate.
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:A guy writes one thing wrong.....
That's ok Greg ... most of realize Beebl's gonna Beeb.
Zach, I think you need to go back and fix Greg's score with a .65 multiplier curve or something. He's on probation as far as I'm concerned.
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:A guy writes one thing wrong.....
Reminds me of a joke I heard in my poker group.
Punchline (spoken with Scottish accent): "But do they remember me as MacGregor the Road Builder or MacGregor the Building Constructor?! No!!! You f**k just one sheep though ... "
Quoted from Who-Dey:I have played the game Zach, not enough to comment on two catagories though. Hey at least im honest about that, thats more than i can say for you about your claim of being totally unbiased so how about that? I think what you are smelling is your own bullshit.
What the hell man....You need your medication!?
Quoted from Who-Dey:You could maybe even add one more interesting catagory to the grading process. You could have a yes or no box that says “would you buy this game.”? That would make things extremely interesting.
Actually this isn't a bad concept - but how that would be answered is also completely subjective:
1. Do you only buy A and better rated games?
2. Does "would you buy this game" mean it's a must buy? or just a good one to buy?
3. Does the asking price meet or is lower than what the 'rating' wound indicate?
4. What if you don't have room for the pin?
5. What is my budget for a pin. A BMW M4 is a great car - but it isn't a must buy for me. 
Along those lines - I would consider a game an "F" if you asked me if I wanted it for free (and it be in mint condition). But had to keep it - would I want it? If I said no - well I think it would likely be an F 
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:A guy writes one thing wrong.....
Fair point, less than the several hundred off point by ZMeny
Quoted from Goronic:Actually this isn't a bad concept - but you have to think about how that would be answered is subjective:
1. Do you only buy A and better rated games?
2. Does "would you buy this game" mean it's a must buy? or just a good one to buy?
3. Does the asking price meet or is lower than what the 'rating' wound indicate?
4. What if you don't have room for the pin?
Along those lines - I would consider a game an "F" if you asked me if I wanted it for free. But had to keep it - would I want it? If I said no - well I think it would likely be an F
You are asking me if i need my meds after writing this?? I can't even understand what the hell you are talking about? The question is simple...would you buy this game yes or no, meaning do you think this game is fun enough to have in your collection all things considered which would be price, enjoyability, theme, or whatever. That way zach could say. ...no i wouldn't buy IMDN because i just cant stand their music but if i did like Iron Maiden this game would be a must buy for me because its great in every way.
All i am saying is something feels off about their rating system because you got games ahead of other games that should no way be there in most peoples eyes. I don't know what the answer is to improving it and i don't even give a shit if they dont try to improve it because it's their show not mine.
Im just giving my opinion on ways to make the show better because i watch the show sometimes. You can criticize me all you want and Zach can get mad all he wants, i seriously do not care, but if nobody said anything at all they wouldn't have any idea where they stand or if anyone likes the show or not. Im not criticizing the show at all, im just saying something feels off about the rating of these games. They can agree or disagree, im ok either way with it.
Quoted from Frippertron:As the ambassador of shit games, BW has fun shots and a fun multiball. It doesn't compare to other shit games like Rescue 911, which has one OK shot that leads to a shitty shot. Every System 3 is better than that piece of garbage.
I've owned Four System 3s over the past several years. I actually really enjoy Rescue 911. The helicopter is cool. The layout is fine with me. The Life Force sort of Wizard Mode is a little opaque if you don't know what you're doing, but I still really like it. For $1,250 or so I'm having a blast with it. As far as System 3s go, I definitely like Mario Andretti less than Rescue 911. I find Cactus Jack's to be pretty annoying. Shaq Attaq is pretty bad. I hate the looks of Freddy: A Nightmare on Elm Street. 911 isn't a classic by any means, but I've gotten a lot of bang for the buck out of it.
Quoted from Who-Dey:The question is simple...would you buy this game yes or no,
How much does it cost? 
Quoted from chuckwurt:How much does it cost?
10K by Christmas but I'll make you a smokin deal right now that you cant refuse! lol
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:"But do they remember me as MacGregor the Road Builder or MacGregor the Building Constructor?! No!!! You f**k just one sheep though ... "
Anything but being the Rabbit in this thread.
download (resized).jpg
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:To those concerned about the weighting criteria, I took a glance and attempted to summarize the categories. Each category was assigned to a single summary, except two - Toys/Innovation & Display/Animations, both which seemed to belong in two places. So the share of those categories were cut in half. As a result I see 3 parts (38%) LOOKS and 5 parts (62%) PLAY. That seems about the right mix to me, if not slightly heavy on the LOOKS. That is also probably the reason that the reviews end up close to where they belong imo.
Art - LOOKS
Shots/Layout - PLAY
Rules / Code - PLAY
Toys/Innovation - LOOKS & PLAY
Music/Callouts - PLAY
Display/Animations - LOOKS & PLAY
Theme - LOOKS
Enjoyability - PLAY
To dilute weighting of LOOKS you could add more PLAY categories or redefine existing LOOK categories. Most categories include two aspects, allowing either to be used. You will notice the one labeled Theme has one aspect. That is also the category that mucked up Zach’s perfect grading record. I suggest changing this category to Theme/Last-ability. That would allow one to recognize a game that has staying power even if one hated or loved theme too much.
In the same vein of renaming certain categories, I suggest changing Enjoyability to Enjoyability/One More Game. This would distinguish games like TWD from GB. Both are difficult and considered no fun by some, but only one may have that one more play feel that draws you back.
So Art would need another criteria and suggest renaming it Art-Cabinet/Translite/Playfield.
At the end of the day you would still have eight categories and the weighting would remain 38/62. What could use some real work is your number assigned per grade. A+, A, A- etc get how many points? This appears to have been loosely developed over time. I doubt the current summary is an average of existing numbers. I suggest the following values with a plus adding 5 points and minus subtracting 5 points. The values you settle on will affect all of your reviews given to date. You would need to go back and rescore each using the assigned grades and looking up its new value. If your C is not around 50 point and F is not below 25 points, you are not getting a full spread of values.
A = 95
B = 80
C = 50
D = 35
F = 20
If you apply these to your recent TNA review, you would find Greg's score added to 700, for an average of 87.5, exactly half way between B+ and A- and which rounds up to A-. Greg's existing rating is .... B+ slightly too low.
If you apply these to your recent TNA review, you would find Zach's score added to 690, for an average of 86.3, which is B+. Zach's existing rating is .... B+ for the match.
A wider spread of assigned values help distinguish between A-/B+. Although that is not much difference, it is something and it feels more accurate.
Thanks for the suggestion, but now my head hurts.
Quoted from Knapp_Arcade:I've owned Four System 3s over the past several years. I actually really enjoy Rescue 911. The helicopter is cool. The layout is fine with me. The Life Force sort of Wizard Mode is a little opaque if you don't know what you're doing, but I still really like it. For $1,250 or so I'm having a blast with it. As far as System 3s go, I definitely like Mario Andretti less than Rescue 911. I find Cactus Jack's to be pretty annoying. Shaq Attaq is pretty bad. I hate the looks of Freddy: A Nightmare on Elm Street. 911 isn't a classic by any means, but I've gotten a lot of bang for the buck out of it.
A man that is on my level!
Quoted from Who-Dey:That way zach could say. ...no i wouldn't buy IMDN because i just cant stand their music but if i did like Iron Maiden this game would be a must buy for me because its great in every way.
Iron Maiden again. Why are you so mad about this and lashing out so much.
My poorly made point I was trying to make is that 'would you buy it' is just a subjective extension of an opinionated rating. Now you are saying, yeah I rate it a B but if you like Iron Maiden it is a must buy? I just don't understand why you are so pissed off about it.
Sorry about the medication joke too - I was just trying to lighten up the "your own BS" post. My apologies.
Quoted from ZMeny:Thanks for the suggestion, but now my head hurts.
If you understand how JJPOTC scores or can explain the bonus on AC/DC - and you must since you've reviewed both, you should be able to handle this.
Any chance you'll get by JJP factory by year end and can shoot your review of DP at the factory? They supposedly have a room setup for streaming. You could slip in to film your segment by playing a few games and slip out like ninjas. Better yet add Gomez and Tanio and play best of three with games designer and coder. Back home you could film your review of the pin and then tell us aboot who the better player on DP was.
Quoted from Goronic:I just don't understand why you are so pissed off about it.
You are right, you dont understand and its a private matter that will work itself out one way or the other. Apologies accepted about the medication thing and the insult didnt bother me since im not on any kind of medication for mental illness. There are people here on this forum though that are on medication or have family members that are who probably didnt appreciate your comment though.
Quoted from Who-Dey:You are right, you dont understand and its a private matter that will work itself out one way or the other. Apologies accepted about the medication thing and the insult didnt bother me since im not on any kind of medication for mental illness. There are people here on this forum though that are on medication or have family members that are who probably didnt appreciate your comment though.
If the Meds are any good, they haven't a clue.
Quoted from Spiderpin:If the Meds are any good, they haven't a clue.
Thats pretty funny. Wonder how funny it would be if it was one of your kids or one of your parents?
It is and you got to make light of it or it will bring you down. Everyone's not a winner and everyone can't be 1st. Sorry Hillary lost. haha
Now go play your IMEN you can't make a sale here. We're not buying. Just because you made the jump. Like I said before, there will so many for sale soon. So if you want to get some money back sale early before the market gets flooded.
Quoted from Spiderpin:It is and you got to make light of it or it will bring you down. Everyone's not a winner and everyone can't be 1st. Sorry Hillary lost. haha
I guess the reason i dont think its funny is because i have 3 friends who have taken their own life due to mental illnes, my ex wifes kids were affected by it as was several other of her family members and it was the main culprit that ended my marriage, and truthfully its just not funny. I wont lie, ive made similar comments like Goronic did and im sure he meant nothing by it probably but it truly isnt a funny thing.
As for me selling my IMDN goes, you must be crazy because thats never gonna happen lol. Its the best pin i have and yes that includes TWD! Not for sale ever and thats a guarantee!
Quoted from Who-Dey:You are right, you dont understand and its a private matter
Alright - fair enough.
Quoted from davijc02:Can we all just universally agree that all Gottliebs are nothing short of a dumpster fire?
No.
Quoted from davijc02:Damn this thread got heavy in a hurry!
Can we all just universally agree that all Gottliebs are nothing short of a dumpster fire?
While not pinball - they did get lightning in a bottle with Q*bert (video game)
Not really one of my favs - but it is iconic in video game pop culture.
Quoted from davijc02:dumpster fire
Which is worse - dumpster fire or hot garbage? I like using both of those
Quoted from Who-Dey:All i am saying is something feels off about their rating system because you got games ahead of other games that should no way be there in most peoples eyes. I don't know what the answer is to improving it and i don't even give a shit if they dont try to improve it because it's their show not mine.
Im just giving my opinion on ways to make the show better because i watch the show sometimes. You can criticize me all you want and Zach can get mad all he wants, i seriously do not care, but if nobody said anything at all they wouldn't have any idea where they stand or if anyone likes the show or not. Im not criticizing the show at all, im just saying something feels off about the rating of these games. They can agree or disagree, im ok either way with it.
Man you've seemed really obsessed over this stuff every since Zach didn't like your favorite game. You keep insinuating that they are biased, that something is wrong with the show, that their ratings are all wrong, that the show has changed and is bad now, etc. You say this stuff but it's all innuendo with no information. Now you say it's a private matter but you are going out of your way to take public shots a sdtm.
If you have suggestions for the show, just say them. If you dont like Zach or Greg then just dont watch. If you dont like their reviews start your own show and do it however you like. I sincerely doubt that Zach is mad at you or butt hurt. He's probably equally as confused as all of us. None of these things seemed to be an issue until he didn't like IMDN. Lots of people dont like it, lots do, who cares?
Quoted from Goronic:Which is worse - dumpster fire or hot garbage? I like using both of those
Tomatoe..tomawtow
Quoted from Gunnut40:Good review. It seems like a fun pin. I can't say the same about deadpool.
Does that mean you're giving Deadpool an F Gunnut? 
Quoted from jgentry:None of these things seemed to be an issue until he didn't like IMDN
Thats it! Man when he made that IMDN review i just went off and lost my mind and havent been able forgive him since! 
Quoted from davijc02:Damn this thread got heavy in a hurry!
Can we all just universally agree that all Gottliebs are just short of a dumpster fire?
No shit! Come on guys the banter and opinions are welcome here about pins and the episodes but stuff needs to lighten up a bit.
Oh and I don’t agree with the the dumpster! I like a few Gottliebs!
Quoted from Who-Dey:Thats it! Man when he made that IMDN review i just went off and lost my mind and havent been able forgive him since!
Yeah, we know...
If you guys haven’t played Freddy find one. I had a blast the one night I played it for a couple hours. Goofy scoring at times like most system 3s, but the unique layout is surprisingly fun to shoot.
Quoted from chuckwurt:If you guys haven’t played Freddy find one. I had a blast the one night I played it for a couple hours. Goofy scoring at times like most system 3s, but the unique layout is surprisingly fun to shoot.
I agree. Like barb wire I’m not sure it would last long but it’s fun and probably the creepiest sounds and call outs of any pin!
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Like barb wire I’m not sure it would last long but it’s fun and probably the creepiest sounds and call outs of any pin!
Like 20 minutes after you're done playing that fat dude with the drumstick starts making funny noises. I remember that well.
Ratings are subjective and don’t always factor in all variables.
A great them doesn’t have to be as good as a poor theme to get someone to buy it.
I’m sure if they did a “this or that in a bracket” their top 4 wouldn’t be the 4 highested rated pins that they reviewed. I just traded a Pinside # 21 TNA for a # 80 something LE GOTG and I’m happy I made the trade before the market gets saturated with them. How many people with a Twilight Zone would want to trade for a Dialed In , WOZ , or Pirates.
Reviews should be considered like rotten tomatoes movie reviews, look at the consensus and make an informed decision ,but at the end of the day a 20% rotten rating won’t keep me from seeing a Jason Statham Movie.
Where do I begin with this review.....let me first start off by saying that I enjoyed the content as always and even the review itself. That said, I very much disagree with ratings. Not as much as Houdini but I just couldn't believe A- for shots and layout? A+ for code or worse TOYS and Innovation!!!??? I actually looked at my TnA again to make sure I didn't miss a separate pf!
I think we all agree that the music is incredible. It might be the best music in any pinball to date. Amazing sound system. It's that good. Theme is up to the individual - not going to argue there. I hate IMDN, people love it. I love TNA's 80s vibe with great color and art - sure....move on
Here's where things get interesting but before I begin, reminder - I've owned this pin for a few months. I put some good time on it and enjoyed a lot but ultimately - waaaaaay too linear for single owner use which is why I ultimately sold it. Many folks ask that question - many answer no it will never get old. Reality check - it def could get old. See below:
Shots and Layout: If you want to continue enjoying this game, don't make the same mistake I did and watch Bowen on youtube blow this game up. Now I know everyone says that's b/c he's so good but he made me aware of the games downfall - SHORT PLUNGE. Damn that short plunge b/c even someone as bad as me can almost consistently get MB but just doing short plung, bounce over to right flipper, trap ball and hit backhand. Rinse and repeat. There goes your strategy out the door b/c who isn't taking MB all day?
THE SCOOP - oh the scoop. Def broken. I made a similar comment on the owners thread and took all the advice given (even bending it forward) - doesn't work. Backhands shouldn't be the answer - mine loved the backhand and said no soup for you on the forehand. Even when it was 100% lined up - it rejected. It's such an important shot - very disappointing to see that.
Code: This goes well with the shots and layout. It's very simple and very straight forward. The roots of this game being homebrew are clearly there. To give a game that is absolutely positively one of if not the most linear game on the planet an A+ for code is absolutely mind blowing. What are we rewarding here? Yes it's challenging. Yes I've only made it to reactor 6 but not b/c of anything but absolute chaos due to the standups and pop (which btw - I do love that damn pop) - I'm not sure it's skill or luck to truly get through the game. When you drain out, it's back to doing the same thing over and over. Zach talks about chopping wood games like MET and how he can't get past that - TnA literally is the definition of chopping wood.
Here's the main point - you do the same thing over and over again to move on to the next reactor. There is no alternative goal - it's literally the same thing again and again. Yes - it's impressive that "again and again" can be this fun. That's why I bought it and enjoyed it a lot at first but to say it's an A+ for code? Whaaaat? Again code is the games complexity - what it requires the player to experience and work through right?
Toys and Innovation - I'm not sure what was a bigger surprise - code or this being rated A+. Again - PERFECT score for toys? What toys? The drop targets lined behind each other in the top right corner? The use of slings in the top middle? To me these are just an illustration of the creator's ability to leverage cheaper materials and make them into something interesting b/c again - homebrew roots. He didn't have the funds or assets that JJP has so he had to make do. I agree that he did an excellent job with what he had - in fact I think Scott is an absolute genius for creating so much out of so little but does that equal a rotating ship that's sculpted to perfection in Pirates, or hologram like images, and drones, and magnets and the list goes on in DI or 10 other games that have real toys? I know it's more than just the physical toy but how it interacts in the game but I'm sorry three drop targets that hold the ball is not an A+. It's a ball lock that uses standard run of the mill parts available on any machine. Nothing custom about it.
Speaking of, crediting inlanes and outlanes that provide "something" to the player if the balls hits their switch (like it does in literally every game) is not A+ innovation. Again - they are cool in their own way but A+?
Finally - I want to revisit something Greg mentioned early on. The game gets stale. I think that about summarizes my confusion on how this game can be rated so high if it gets stale. I completely agree - it does get stale. That again and again strategy just burns out in a single own home like mine.
Gentlemen - as always LOVE the product and I know you appreciate agreements and disagreements so nothing but respect on this one. Just thought I would provide my input on the review. For me - this game is good. Solid B. It's just the A's especially A+ and the categories in which they were given that was surprising. I welcome feedback, others insight and DEFINITELY NOT saying my view here is the correct view. Just throwing in my two cents based on my experience.
Excellent job entertaining as always and look forward to future content!
Quoted from delt31:I love TNA's 80s vibe
I love TNAs 21st century and beyond vibe.
Quoted from delt31:Toys and Innovation - I'm not sure what was a bigger surprise. Code or this being rated A+. Again - PERFECT score for toys? What toys?
IMO Toys should not even be considered when rating a game, unless it is for lack of Happy Meal type toys, and then yes, certainly TNA gets an A+ perfect score in that department.
Quoted from delt31:Where do I begin with this review.....let me first start off by saying that I enjoyed the content as always and even the review itself. That said, I very much disagree with ratings. Not as much as Houdini but I just couldn't believe A- for shots and layout? A+ for code or worse TOYS and Innovation!!!??? I actually looked at my TnA again to make sure I didn't miss a separate pf!
I think we all agree that the music is incredible. It might be the best music in any pinball to date. Amazing sound system. It's that good. Theme is up to the individual - not going to argue there. I hate IMDN, people love it. I love TNA's 80s vibe with great color and art - sure....move on
Here's where things get interesting but before I begin, reminder - I've owned this pin for a few months. I put some good time on it and enjoyed a lot but ultimately - waaaaaay too linear for single owner use which is why I ultimately sold it. Many folks ask that question - many answer no it will never get old. Reality check - it def could get old. See below:
Shots and Layout: If you want to continue enjoying this game, don't make the same mistake I did and watch Bowen on youtube blow this game up. Now I know everyone says that's b/c he's so good but he made me aware of the games downfall - SHORT PLUNGE. Damn that short plunge b/c even someone as bad as me can almost consistently get MB but just doing short plung, bounce over to right flipper, trap ball and hit backhand. Rinse and repeat. There goes your strategy out the door b/c who isn't taking MB all day?
THE SCOOP - oh the scoop. Def broken. I made a similar comment on the owners thread and took all the advice given (even bending it forward) - doesn't work. Backhands shouldn't be the answer - mine loved the backhand and said no soup for you on the forehand. Even when it was 100% lined up - it rejected. It's such an important shot - very disappointing to see that.
Code: This goes well with the shots and layout. It's very simple and very straight forward. The roots of this game being homebrew are clearly there. To give a game that is absolutely positively one of if not the most linear game on the planet an A+ for code is absolutely mind blowing. What are we rewarding here? Yes it's challenging. Yes I've only made it to reactor 6 but not b/c of anything but absolute chaos due to the standups and pops (which btw - I do love that damn Pop) - I'm not sure it's skill or luck to truly get through the game. When you drain out, it's back to doing the same thing over and over. Zach talks about chopping wood games like MET and how he can't get past that - TnA literally is the definition of chopping wood.
Here's the main point - you do the same thing over and over again to move on to the next reactor. There is no alternative goal - it's literally the same thing again and again. Yes - it's impressive that "again and again" can be this fun. That's why I bought it and enjoyed it a lot at first but to say it's an A+ for code? Whaaaat? Again code is the games complexity - what it requires the player to experience and work through right?
Toys and Innovation - I'm not sure what was a bigger surprise. Code or this being rated A+. Again - PERFECT score for toys? What toys? The drop targets lined behind each other in the top right corner? The use of slings in the top middle? To me these are just an illustration of the creator's ability to leverage cheaper materials and make them into something interesting b/c again - homebrew roots. He didn't have the funds or assets that JJP has so he had to make do. I agree that he did an excellent job with what he had - in fact I think Scott is an absolute genius for creating so much out of so little but does that equal a rotating ship that's sculpted to perfection in Pirates, or holograms, and drones, and magnets and the list goes on in DI or 10 other games that have real toys? I know it's more than just the physical toy but how it interacts in the game but I'm sorry three drop targets that hold the ball is not an A+. Speaking of, crediting inlanes and outlanes that provide "something" to the player if the balls hits their switch (like it does in literally every game) is not A+ innovation. Again - they are cool in their own way but A+?
Finally - I want to revisit something Greg mentioned early on. The game gets stale. I think that about summarizes my confusion on how this game can be rated so high if it gets stale. I completely agree - it does get stale. That again and again strategy just burns out in a single own home like mine.
Gentlemen - as always LOVE the product and I know you appreciate agreements and disagreements so nothing but respect on this one. Just thought I would provide my input on the review. For me - this game is good. Solid B. It's just the A's especially A+ and the categories in which they were given that was surprising. I welcome feedback, others insight and DEFINITELY NOT saying my view here is the correct view. Just throwing in my two cents based on my experience.
Excellent job entertaining as always and look forward to future content!
Ha! finally some truth..... I applaud you even though you've only posted since you sold the game TNA is a great homebrew with great music and lightshow. Those 2 things will be copied by the all the other guys in short order. However, the layout and ruleset just isn't there to justify that kind of score.
Warrington
I’m not sure what I enjoyed more Greg & Zach’s latest episode or the atomic fallout they have created in this thread
I think the review is a little high but I understand that whenever Greg & Zach review a game I know it’s either going to be right on point with my opinion or a little high and that’s cause these guys f**kin love pinball!
Hell they buy games to review and talk about to entertain us and give us all something to watch, without their crazy love for good and bad games alike we wouldn’t have half the content they have created for the community to enjoy!
Really don’t get the upset though, usually when Greg or Zach review something that I thinks way off base I find it amusing, like the LW3 review I laughed my ass off watching Greg announce his love for the game.
Quoted from delt31:Where do I begin with this review.....let me first start off by saying that I enjoyed the content as always and even the review itself. That said, I very much disagree with ratings. Not as much as Houdini but I just couldn't believe A- for shots and layout? A+ for code or worse TOYS and Innovation!!!??? I actually looked at my TnA again to make sure I didn't miss a separate pf!
I think we all agree that the music is incredible. It might be the best music in any pinball to date. Amazing sound system. It's that good. Theme is up to the individual - not going to argue there. I hate IMDN, people love it. I love TNA's 80s vibe with great color and art - sure....move on
Here's where things get interesting but before I begin, reminder - I've owned this pin for a few months. I put some good time on it and enjoyed a lot but ultimately - waaaaaay too linear for single owner use which is why I ultimately sold it. Many folks ask that question - many answer no it will never get old. Reality check - it def could get old. See below:
Shots and Layout: If you want to continue enjoying this game, don't make the same mistake I did and watch Bowen on youtube blow this game up. Now I know everyone says that's b/c he's so good but he made me aware of the games downfall - SHORT PLUNGE. Damn that short plunge b/c even someone as bad as me can almost consistently get MB but just doing short plung, bounce over to right flipper, trap ball and hit backhand. Rinse and repeat. There goes your strategy out the door b/c who isn't taking MB all day?
THE SCOOP - oh the scoop. Def broken. I made a similar comment on the owners thread and took all the advice given (even bending it forward) - doesn't work. Backhands shouldn't be the answer - mine loved the backhand and said no soup for you on the forehand. Even when it was 100% lined up - it rejected. It's such an important shot - very disappointing to see that.
Code: This goes well with the shots and layout. It's very simple and very straight forward. The roots of this game being homebrew are clearly there. To give a game that is absolutely positively one of if not the most linear game on the planet an A+ for code is absolutely mind blowing. What are we rewarding here? Yes it's challenging. Yes I've only made it to reactor 6 but not b/c of anything but absolute chaos due to the standups and pops (which btw - I do love that damn Pop) - I'm not sure it's skill or luck to truly get through the game. When you drain out, it's back to doing the same thing over and over. Zach talks about chopping wood games like MET and how he can't get past that - TnA literally is the definition of chopping wood.
Here's the main point - you do the same thing over and over again to move on to the next reactor. There is no alternative goal - it's literally the same thing again and again. Yes - it's impressive that "again and again" can be this fun. That's why I bought it and enjoyed it a lot at first but to say it's an A+ for code? Whaaaat? Again code is the games complexity - what it requires the player to experience and work through right?
Toys and Innovation - I'm not sure what was a bigger surprise. Code or this being rated A+. Again - PERFECT score for toys? What toys? The drop targets lined behind each other in the top right corner? The use of slings in the top middle? To me these are just an illustration of the creator's ability to leverage cheaper materials and make them into something interesting b/c again - homebrew roots. He didn't have the funds or assets that JJP has so he had to make do. I agree that he did an excellent job with what he had - in fact I think Scott is an absolute genius for creating so much out of so little but does that equal a rotating ship that's sculpted to perfection in Pirates, or holograms, and drones, and magnets and the list goes on in DI or 10 other games that have real toys? I know it's more than just the physical toy but how it interacts in the game but I'm sorry three drop targets that hold the ball is not an A+. Speaking of, crediting inlanes and outlanes that provide "something" to the player if the balls hits their switch (like it does in literally every game) is not A+ innovation. Again - they are cool in their own way but A+?
Finally - I want to revisit something Greg mentioned early on. The game gets stale. I think that about summarizes my confusion on how this game can be rated so high if it gets stale. I completely agree - it does get stale. That again and again strategy just burns out in a single own home like mine.
Gentlemen - as always LOVE the product and I know you appreciate agreements and disagreements so nothing but respect on this one. Just thought I would provide my input on the review. For me - this game is good. Solid B. It's just the A's especially A+ and the categories in which they were given that was surprising. I welcome feedback, others insight and DEFINITELY NOT saying my view here is the correct view. Just throwing in my two cents based on my experience.
Excellent job entertaining as always and look forward to future content!
I'm with you on the shots being rated a little high. There's just not enough of them. Although the orbits are fantastic.
Completely against you on the code. It's simple but well done. Add in co-op modes, an awesome custom sound track, inlane saves, etc, and I think it hits on all the right levels.
Against you again on toys/innovation. The lock is new to pinball and is very innovative. You talking about cost of mechs shows that you dont know much about the cost of mechs. You could build every stern pro cheaper then tna. The game is loaded with innovation. From the speaker system, multiple display bg, multiplayer code, custom cabinet design, lighting, in lane saves, in line drops that reveal a scoop, etc.
All games get stale, every last F'ing one of them. Doesn't matter how world under glass or grail they are.
Quoted from kvan99:Ha! finally some truth..... I applaud you even though you've only posted since you sold the game TNA is a great homebrew with great music and lightshow. Those 2 things will be copied by the all the other guys in short order. However, the layout and ruleset just isn't there to justify that kind of score.
And yet if I cared enough to rate games my top 2 would be ACDC and Flash Gordon. So how can that possibly be if 10 million lines of code and 10+ shots are needed to make a good game?
Quoted from delt31:Where do I begin with this review.....let me first start off by saying that I enjoyed the content as always and even the review itself. That said, I very much disagree with ratings. Not as much as Houdini but I just couldn't believe A- for shots and layout? A+ for code or worse TOYS and Innovation!!!??? I actually looked at my TnA again to make sure I didn't miss a separate pf!
I think we all agree that the music is incredible. It might be the best music in any pinball to date. Amazing sound system. It's that good. Theme is up to the individual - not going to argue there. I hate IMDN, people love it. I love TNA's 80s vibe with great color and art - sure....move on
Here's where things get interesting but before I begin, reminder - I've owned this pin for a few months. I put some good time on it and enjoyed a lot but ultimately - waaaaaay too linear for single owner use which is why I ultimately sold it. Many folks ask that question - many answer no it will never get old. Reality check - it def could get old. See below:
Shots and Layout: If you want to continue enjoying this game, don't make the same mistake I did and watch Bowen on youtube blow this game up. Now I know everyone says that's b/c he's so good but he made me aware of the games downfall - SHORT PLUNGE. Damn that short plunge b/c even someone as bad as me can almost consistently get MB but just doing short plung, bounce over to right flipper, trap ball and hit backhand. Rinse and repeat. There goes your strategy out the door b/c who isn't taking MB all day?
THE SCOOP - oh the scoop. Def broken. I made a similar comment on the owners thread and took all the advice given (even bending it forward) - doesn't work. Backhands shouldn't be the answer - mine loved the backhand and said no soup for you on the forehand. Even when it was 100% lined up - it rejected. It's such an important shot - very disappointing to see that.
Code: This goes well with the shots and layout. It's very simple and very straight forward. The roots of this game being homebrew are clearly there. To give a game that is absolutely positively one of if not the most linear game on the planet an A+ for code is absolutely mind blowing. What are we rewarding here? Yes it's challenging. Yes I've only made it to reactor 6 but not b/c of anything but absolute chaos due to the standups and pop (which btw - I do love that damn pop) - I'm not sure it's skill or luck to truly get through the game. When you drain out, it's back to doing the same thing over and over. Zach talks about chopping wood games like MET and how he can't get past that - TnA literally is the definition of chopping wood.
Here's the main point - you do the same thing over and over again to move on to the next reactor. There is no alternative goal - it's literally the same thing again and again. Yes - it's impressive that "again and again" can be this fun. That's why I bought it and enjoyed it a lot at first but to say it's an A+ for code? Whaaaat? Again code is the games complexity - what it requires the player to experience and work through right?
Toys and Innovation - I'm not sure what was a bigger surprise - code or this being rated A+. Again - PERFECT score for toys? What toys? The drop targets lined behind each other in the top right corner? The use of slings in the top middle? To me these are just an illustration of the creator's ability to leverage cheaper materials and make them into something interesting b/c again - homebrew roots. He didn't have the funds or assets that JJP has so he had to make do. I agree that he did an excellent job with what he had - in fact I think Scott is an absolute genius for creating so much out of so little but does that equal a rotating ship that's sculpted to perfection in Pirates, or hologram like images, and drones, and magnets and the list goes on in DI or 10 other games that have real toys? I know it's more than just the physical toy but how it interacts in the game but I'm sorry three drop targets that hold the ball is not an A+. It's a ball lock that uses standard run of the mill parts available on any machine. Nothing custom about it.
Speaking of, crediting inlanes and outlanes that provide "something" to the player if the balls hits their switch (like it does in literally every game) is not A+ innovation. Again - they are cool in their own way but A+?
Finally - I want to revisit something Greg mentioned early on. The game gets stale. I think that about summarizes my confusion on how this game can be rated so high if it gets stale. I completely agree - it does get stale. That again and again strategy just burns out in a single own home like mine.
Gentlemen - as always LOVE the product and I know you appreciate agreements and disagreements so nothing but respect on this one. Just thought I would provide my input on the review. For me - this game is good. Solid B. It's just the A's especially A+ and the categories in which they were given that was surprising. I welcome feedback, others insight and DEFINITELY NOT saying my view here is the correct view. Just throwing in my two cents based on my experience.
Excellent job entertaining as always and look forward to future content!
Agree on toys, but you concentrated on toys. They concentrated on innovation. That’s where the high grade came from. This game is full of innovation.
Quoted from delt31:Where do I begin with this review.....let me first start off by saying that I enjoyed the content as always and even the review itself. That said, I very much disagree with ratings. Not as much as Houdini but I just couldn't believe A- for shots and layout? A+ for code or worse TOYS and Innovation!!!??? I actually looked at my TnA again to make sure I didn't miss a separate pf!
I think we all agree that the music is incredible. It might be the best music in any pinball to date. Amazing sound system. It's that good. Theme is up to the individual - not going to argue there. I hate IMDN, people love it. I love TNA's 80s vibe with great color and art - sure....move on
Here's where things get interesting but before I begin, reminder - I've owned this pin for a few months. I put some good time on it and enjoyed a lot but ultimately - waaaaaay too linear for single owner use which is why I ultimately sold it. Many folks ask that question - many answer no it will never get old. Reality check - it def could get old. See below:
Shots and Layout: If you want to continue enjoying this game, don't make the same mistake I did and watch Bowen on youtube blow this game up. Now I know everyone says that's b/c he's so good but he made me aware of the games downfall - SHORT PLUNGE. Damn that short plunge b/c even someone as bad as me can almost consistently get MB but just doing short plung, bounce over to right flipper, trap ball and hit backhand. Rinse and repeat. There goes your strategy out the door b/c who isn't taking MB all day?
THE SCOOP - oh the scoop. Def broken. I made a similar comment on the owners thread and took all the advice given (even bending it forward) - doesn't work. Backhands shouldn't be the answer - mine loved the backhand and said no soup for you on the forehand. Even when it was 100% lined up - it rejected. It's such an important shot - very disappointing to see that.
Code: This goes well with the shots and layout. It's very simple and very straight forward. The roots of this game being homebrew are clearly there. To give a game that is absolutely positively one of if not the most linear game on the planet an A+ for code is absolutely mind blowing. What are we rewarding here? Yes it's challenging. Yes I've only made it to reactor 6 but not b/c of anything but absolute chaos due to the standups and pop (which btw - I do love that damn pop) - I'm not sure it's skill or luck to truly get through the game. When you drain out, it's back to doing the same thing over and over. Zach talks about chopping wood games like MET and how he can't get past that - TnA literally is the definition of chopping wood.
Here's the main point - you do the same thing over and over again to move on to the next reactor. There is no alternative goal - it's literally the same thing again and again. Yes - it's impressive that "again and again" can be this fun. That's why I bought it and enjoyed it a lot at first but to say it's an A+ for code? Whaaaat? Again code is the games complexity - what it requires the player to experience and work through right?
Toys and Innovation - I'm not sure what was a bigger surprise - code or this being rated A+. Again - PERFECT score for toys? What toys? The drop targets lined behind each other in the top right corner? The use of slings in the top middle? To me these are just an illustration of the creator's ability to leverage cheaper materials and make them into something interesting b/c again - homebrew roots. He didn't have the funds or assets that JJP has so he had to make do. I agree that he did an excellent job with what he had - in fact I think Scott is an absolute genius for creating so much out of so little but does that equal a rotating ship that's sculpted to perfection in Pirates, or hologram like images, and drones, and magnets and the list goes on in DI or 10 other games that have real toys? I know it's more than just the physical toy but how it interacts in the game but I'm sorry three drop targets that hold the ball is not an A+. It's a ball lock that uses standard run of the mill parts available on any machine. Nothing custom about it.
Speaking of, crediting inlanes and outlanes that provide "something" to the player if the balls hits their switch (like it does in literally every game) is not A+ innovation. Again - they are cool in their own way but A+?
Finally - I want to revisit something Greg mentioned early on. The game gets stale. I think that about summarizes my confusion on how this game can be rated so high if it gets stale. I completely agree - it does get stale. That again and again strategy just burns out in a single own home like mine.
Gentlemen - as always LOVE the product and I know you appreciate agreements and disagreements so nothing but respect on this one. Just thought I would provide my input on the review. For me - this game is good. Solid B. It's just the A's especially A+ and the categories in which they were given that was surprising. I welcome feedback, others insight and DEFINITELY NOT saying my view here is the correct view. Just throwing in my two cents based on my experience.
Excellent job entertaining as always and look forward to future content!
Quoted from jgentry:I'm with you on the shots being rated a little high. There's just not enough of them. Although the orbits are fantastic.
Completely against you on the code. It's simple but well done. Add in co-op modes, an awesome custom sound track, inlane saves, etc, and I think it hits on all the right levels.
Against you again on toys/innovation. The lock is new to pinball and is very innovative. You talking about cost of mechs shows that you dont know much about the cost of mechs. You could build every stern pro cheaper then tna. The game is loaded with innovative. From the speaker system, multiple display bg, multiplayer code, custom cabinet design, lighting, in lane saves, in line drops that reveal a scoop, etc.
All games get stale, every last F'ing one of them. Doesn't matter how world under glass or grail they are.And yet if I cared enough to rate games my top 2 would be ACDC and Flash Gordon. So how can that possibly be if 10 million lines of code and 10+ shots are needed to make a good game?
Very good and thorough assessments. Nicely done.
Don’t forget that the Shots category also includes Layout, which I believe compared to similar layouts of the 80s style, may be the best, hence the A. In other words, which 80s layout do you think is better?
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