Im with you on the Premium art package, its stunning!

I have to completely disagree for the reasons below. I think the review by SDTM for both pins is fair and who knows both may change over time.

1. At today's NIB prices flow is overrated when it results in less toys and features. Iron Maiden premium / LE has far less features then POTC. There's no comparison in my opinion, even after the Pirates changes. At $9k+ I want interactive features such as those offered by Pirates.

2. Pirates destroys Iron Maiden in the software, rules, animations and audio department. Code plays a big part in a games perceived value for myself and many other buyers. POTC easily has 5x the amount of code that Iron Maiden does and much of it, such as the animations, are on a different level.

3. Theme: A majority of Iron Maidens music is about death and depressing topics. A lot of buyers want a fun story based theme, especially when their friends and family play the games with them. I choose fun.

I'm not a big fan of Iron Maidens music so that doesn't help with my opinion of the pin, lol. For those that are I can see why they really love the pin. It's also nice to see Stern going with more of a unique design with the pin as well.

Exactly!! I bought my IMDN pin as a cartoon monster pin. They did a great job making the design universally appalling vs hardcore fan specific. That’s why they went with Eddie and all cartoons instead of focusing on the band.

When we played it at Golden Gate Festival it changed my pre bias immediately.

More code does not mean anything. Why in the world are some of you obsessed with a game having massive amounts of code that 99.9% of people (including most of you) will never see. What matters is that the code is well implemented and fits the theme and layout. I also don't get that the audio and animations can be better when it doesn't even include the assets of the movies which the game is themed off of. POTC looks like a great game, but it's certainly not destroying other top games. It may be on their level, but time will tell that.

May be. But it's not nearly as FUN. That's what makes me buy a game. P is pretty, has lot's of toys, but just wasn't exciting for me to play.

Yes it does for me and many other buyers. If I'm going to spend $9k+ on a pin, or $6k+ even, then I want deep and unique rules that provide years worth of entertainment. JJP games do that thanks to the rulesets being designed by Keith Johnson, Ted Estes, and Joe Katz. I'm no longer interested in games that have me just hitting ramps and loops for points over and over again, that's not fun long term in my opinion when games cost as much as they do today. I'll play the adrenaline ramp and loop points games on location but they just don't have the staying power for me to buy one for my home.

I love how just about everything in a JJP game is building towards something and that theres always something to achieve or progress to. With a JJP pin I end up caring more about how much of the game I progressed through then how many points I earned and thats due to their ruleset designs. Stern is just not doing that on the same level as JJP and thats probably the main reason why my collection will eventually be all JJP pins, lol. I'm keeping Ghostbusters though, lol.

Everyone likes different things and that's what's great about pinball right now. Lots of options. I enjoy games like those but I certainly would not want a collection of them. I don't need to go on some quest or journey every time I turn on a pin though. Variety is the spice of life. I can have just as much fun on Flash Gordon as I can at any 9K pin.

I love JJPOTC, but have you played IMDN? Everything you just said stern doesn’t have, IMDN does...including the scoring aspect and can be found for $4k less. There’s 4 tiers of progression in IMDN; power features, battle modes, EDDIE cards, and pharaoh awards. Just saying.

That is all true. My point was that because of the large number of super hero movies Disney is cranking out each year that none of them will be that special in the long run.

This game is special, so it's better that it's mated to the Iron Maiden theme so well, which will make it a timeless classic, at least for fans of Iron Maiden. In 20 years it will still be an incredible Iron Maiden pin, much like IJ is still a great pin regardless of the age of the material.

None of the Marvel shit will age that well if for no other reason that memories of it will be washed away by the literally dozens of newer movies Disney will crank out in the years ahead.

Who in their right mind wants a pin themed on a 40+ year old who still can't wear his pants all the way up and who's claim to fame is a catalog of songs where he whines about his mommy issues??

Me! But I am clinically insane so I guess I’m not in my right mind to begin with

Eminem would be a day one buy for me. I don't think Stern are looking that far ahead and they would never do it. Eminem could be a major cross over pin as far as your potential demographic. I was born in the early 70's and his music was massive in my age range and its still massive today. My kids grew up listening to him but more importantly they listen to the next generation that grew up on him. Guys like NF that are not really mainstream but the halls of high schools are flooded with his hoodies.

Preach it Zach Eminem would be epic.

Haha I'm a Giants fan but even I know that's pure insanity. I'll never forget how they blew that game against the Steelers in the playoffs. Crazy.

Thanks for confirming..... Back to Pinball

Great episode guys and not sure why you (Zach) get so much 'stick'? Together you are greater than the sum of the each parts. Where would Laurel be without Hardy?

Not keen on Iron Maiden as a band but the game looks awesome. Keep up the good work guys. BTW, loved the Chuck Wurt GOT teardown and hopefully he will do more in the future.

It's really fun & the music really sucks; just like MET

There is one theme left, I think we could all agree would be a great Music theme for a pinball game and that is: STEEL PANTHER!!!! Just imagine all the great toys they could put in.

Well there's a really good chance it was him

All those streams, shows and podcasts are a great thing for this hobby and the whole pinball community, even Kanedas. But the most entertaining one for me is this from the SDTM guys. Even when I think they are totaly wrong with a review, SW for an example, they always get many laugths from me. It's fun mixed with good information and reviews are just opinions. Big thx from me, I think it's a lot of work you guys put into this.

On the POTC tangent, the last stream is a few guys having a great time. Victory/defeat. All inside of one game. Looked great. And the guys did a really good energetic job marketing the machine this week. The wizard modes really elevate the risk, and make the movies more unique. I think that's one piece that's been missing for me when I watch and when I played it.

I've been hitting Chaos in Quantum City on DILE most sessions lately, and I really feel the build up. The machine has a personality. I think POTC will get there with a lot more polish of the gameplay code/style.

But I'm super stoked to have my IMDN Premium ordered. It's a seriously fun and deep game, with tons of shot variety.

In terms of needing a deep pin for home fun - well I love my TNA, which isn't deep at all. It's a shooter, it builds tension, it's insanely fast/brutal. And as a result has really helped me learn the game. While also being the one pin my family consistently plays together.

Having a well rounded mix is ALWAYS better. You want LOTR/Hobbit to play for an hour a game, awesome. Great to cut that with some Flash Gordon/BSD/IM whatever...something quick.

That's why everyone should have one EM in their collection

Who gives a flip about someone else's opinion (review). Get your hands on one and form your own judgment. If I had listened to this community's opinion, i would have wasted $5700.

This is why I am going to stay with my hobbit and get IM or TRON to complement it. I also would like to get MB (or AFM or MM) just because I really like those late 90 BW games.

A JJP, a Stern, and a BW trio. (all I have room and money for honestly)

I agree, Zach and Greg are cool. I dont give a shit if they don't know a good theme when they see it, I still like them and love their show! They are just 2 nice guys that love pinball like the rest of us and their show makes the hobby more fun!

I care. People give me crap all the time for listening to what people say about games on pinside or reading video game reviews etc. I do it mainly because i enjoy learning about the hobby and to get a general idea of how the game is. Certain people definitely have more credibility than others and some have no credibility at all but i still like hearing others opinions. Reviews have little or no influence on my purchases though. I just enjoy the hype train more than anything and sometimes i enjoy spreading a little hype of my own even!

I care too. Knowledge from other's is never lost. You can choose not to use it...

Zach what are your thoughts on STTNG. Mode based widebody. I'm not thrilled about the theme or constant main track but value wise looks great...

You guys do fun reviews, don't stop!

Hehehehe. Thanks for not taking it personally and getting all butthurt. Refreshing to see, man : ).

Bowen's reviews are the ones I focus in hard on. I am not saying that I am not persuaded; I certainly am. I have learned after INDN though to be very cautious. That would have been a painful lesson at $5700.

Be it consumer report or SDTM. Ha ha

Maybe the announcement of the ST VE was a knee jerk reaction by Stern to Zach's rating of a D for Iron Maiden theme as a way to shift attention away from IMDN?

Ooooo!!! feisty - I like it!

Fair point. To me, when he teaches how to play a game, it is a review in and of itself. I definitely see what you're saying though.

Doesn’t matter if Zach gave it a d it’s still selling like hot cakes cause the game kicks ass and is one of the best games Stern has ever made

I think that was obviously sarcasm. Although (somewhat talented....j/k!) Zach's opinion will not impact sales on IMDN.

Of course Zachs opinion won’t impact sales at least not negatively like everyone seems to be freaking out about. His review was 90% positive the only thing he criticised was the theme, which I totally agree with for me iron maiden as a theme is a D, just as rap themed pin would be a D for you and others, themes come down to person tastes, but what everyone including Zach agrees on is the physical aspects of the game layout, shots, rules are all an A!

Couldn't have said it better!!

I just got done listening to the buffalo bro crew review on IMDN. All is right in the world again, we can carry on with our day.

This just in everybody, Panzer is a JJP fanboy and loves more toys! Shocking!

Bang that drum Panzer, an "all JJP collection" means you are missing out on some great pinball. Your loss buddy.

Right on Who Dey! Make pinball fun again.

There is no right or wrong for the most part, just different opinions. Sometimes you are in the minority, sometimes the majority. The only opinion that matters is your own when you go to play and buy!

Btw, yes hip hop/Rap mostly BLOWS, but.....Country does NOT!!

Take a look at the top 50 selling artists of all time, George Strait (from San Antonio) is in the top 10 and Garth Brooks is #2 right behind the Beatles! Many others in that top 50 (some i don't like). So many great regional artists down here, dancehalls, beer joints and overall great people.

I'm def in the vast majority on that one

Showing your age there Ice you old man

But that is the beauty of Stern, they make enough games each year to please every corner of the market, plus it’s a relief on the wallet when there is a theme or 2 that is not a must buy, last couple of years Stern have been killing it with their themes and killing my wallet in the process

But it’s all relative not apples to apples. Iron Maiden is walking to the bottom of your list.

Love yah Zach - I almost didn’t buy the premium after watching the review. But then I realized it was a kick ass monster theme pin with high energy music. Then my music preference played zero in the decision to buy it.

Now to wait for Willy Wonka, or grab a Star Trek VE. Or wait to see Dead Pool.

At least they like the display

Smart move! Don't listen to those stiffs

King George is the greatest!
I agree with you Doug, San Antonia is really nice and country music is the best!!!

IMDNLE is a great pin, and I don’t even like the music. But, the theme, music and play totally work for this pin.

Maiden is awesome pure fun out of the box and my is its gonna be a masterpiece !

Cut them a break, they are just kids iceman. They never even heard of Iron Maiden until a month ago. Zach thought Iron Maiden was a movie.