(Topic ID: 180877)

SDTM: 1,000,000 VIEWS


By ZMeny

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 5,213 posts
  • 384 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 hours ago by ZMeny
  • Topic is favorited by 151 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“SDTM: 1,000,000 VIEWS”

  • Team Greg 92 votes
    33%
  • Team Zach 60 votes
    21%
  • Neither 38 votes
    14%
  • One cannot pick between Abbott or Costello 90 votes
    32%

(280 votes)

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#4951 3 months ago

Feelin' "home" when I watch you two guys!

#4952 3 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Feelin' "home" when I watch you two guys!

Damn it thanks Nadine!

HEY WE HIT 100 PINSIDE PAGES!!!!! Thanks everyone!....Greg stopped ready after 20...haha

#4953 3 months ago

This or that:

Hobbit and TRON Pro Or Dialed In and Iron Man Vault

#4954 3 months ago

New mandates just in... The governor of Indiana has just announced a mandated quarantine for both Zach and Greg. For the well being and sanity for all those in pinball you have been ordered by state law to isolate together and forge out the next 25 episodes help us get through this ordeal with joy. Do it for the players, do it for your moms, do it for the Children! 20 bottles of wine, a case of Pepsi, and a microphone. You can Do This!!! Please

#4955 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

New mandates just in... The governor of Indiana has just announced a mandated quarantine for both Zach and Greg. For the well being and sanity for all those in pinball you have been ordered by state law to isolate together and forge out the next 25 episodes help us get through this ordeal with joy. Do it for the players, do it for your moms, do it for the Children! 20 bottles of wine, a case of Pepsi, and a microphone. You can Do This!!! Please

Doesn't Greg self quarantine himself by choice anyway...

#4956 3 months ago

Great show.
Hoping to finally see a wonka review in the near(?) future.

#4957 3 months ago
Quoted from Goronic:

This or that:
Hobbit and TRON Pro Or Dialed In and Iron Man Vault

This is a good one. I’d go hobbit and Tron.

#4958 3 months ago

This or that reality series;
Guest interview with Macho or Kanada.
This or that for your Last purchase;
Punny Factory or Thunderbirds or a kick in the jewels and a lifetime supply of TP
This or that, only one can continue on producing;
American Pinball or Spooky
Bonus points topic;
Your combined dream team to design, code, build, manufacture, and art theme a pinball machine. From any era or company combined.

#4959 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

This or that reality series;
Guest interview with Macho or Kanada.
This or that for your Last purchase;
Punny Factory or Thunderbirds or a kick in the jewels and a lifetime supply of TP
This or that, only one can continue on producing;
American Pinball or Spooky
Bonus points topic;
Your combined dream team to design, code, build, manufacture, and art theme a pinball machine. From any era or company combined.

I can’t wait to dive into these!

#4960 3 months ago

Did I miss episode 108?

Fun topic for discussion consideration;
Could Pinside benefit from a more stern revised moderation guideline to lighten the ever growing venomous battles which detract from the positive values mixed in. EX
1. For abusive content instead of a day isolation from a thread which just moves them to a new thread to contaminate why not a day Off of Pinside all together to think about it?
2. 30 downvotes, the masses have spoken. Take a one day time out and come back with a new attitude?
3. Continuous troll post warnings, time out see you in a week. Or never...

Not complaining just seems like as this hobby population grows it Does become daunting for New members to wade through these often shark infested waters. Lol

#4961 3 months ago

I will watch the latest episode soon. Good to see there is a new episode to watch. Thanks.

Hope everybody is good - especially Greg's mom.

#4962 3 months ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

I will watch the latest episode soon. Good to see there is a new episode to watch. Thanks.
Hope everybody is good - especially Greg's mom.

She’s their private nurse. Zach is well cared for...

#4963 3 months ago

Really bummed you guys did not win the twipy.

There was no one more deserving than you guys.

#4964 3 months ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Really bummed you guys did not win the twipy.
There was no one more deserving than you guys.

Thanks buddy! We had a fantastic year and are proud of the content we created.

#4965 3 months ago

Alice Cooper Pinball Mod Collection & Installation by Medisinyl Mods

Incredible Enhancements, Easy To Install, & Impossible Not To Buy

#4966 3 months ago

Stern Stranger Things Pinball UV Lighting Kit Installation and How-To Adjust Projector

#4967 3 months ago

Pinball Mod Install: Color Changing Speaker Light Kit

These things are affordable, easy to install, and make one hell of an impact!

3 weeks later
11
#4968 75 days ago

New SDTM Episode!

Episode 108: Reviewing The Reviews Part Deux

Also, now you can submit your own weighted grading reviews with the rest of the SDTM Community!

#4969 75 days ago

Listening now. Can’t wait to hear how Maiden fares.

#4970 75 days ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

New SDTM Episode!
Episode 108: Reviewing The Reviews Part Deux
Also, now you can submit your own weighted grading reviews with the rest of the SDTM Community!

I have to add something regarding licensed games, where I think most of you are... over simplifying.

Yes of course licensed games have become more important. First off back in the very old days a license couldn't make much of an impact, since a game like the original KISS would have KISS Artwork on it but... that's about it. No music, video or even elaborate toys to differenciate this game from the others.

And today the audience is still smaller then back in the day so it is kinda "playing it save" with using a license many people love.
So it is easy to explain, easy to sell and people will buy it blindfolded because of it - but there are also people that don't buy a great game because they actively dislike the license.

To shorten it:
Yes it's wise to use a license but to not to is also ok if you do it the right way.
So what is the right way? - Let's explain the wrong way first since it's more fun.
The wrong way is a game like Dialed In, with a plot so over complicated and niche noone can relate to (and a lot of other stuff).

So if you look into some unlicensed games that stood the test of time, that's something like Medival Madness and ToTaN.
Both are original themes with something nearly everyone can relate to (in deistinction to fighting disasters with a cellphone) wich is Knights and the Medival Age and Arabian Fairytales. And both have a extremely simple objective: "Rescue the Princess" or "Fight every Villain/ defeat everyone to become the Best"! - In that regard GoT Rulewise is very much like like Medival Madness, but MM has cooler toys (and I personally dislike GoT dark tone).

What I'm trying to say here is that an original theme can work fine (altough you'll never get blind sales) if you don't over specify it.
A game like Fish Tales wouldn't work anymore since it's too specific and the audience too small... kinda like Oktoberfest.

Heist is doing it in a great way by taking something that people like, witthout actually having to license anything.
But you can be completely original. So just have a look at the titles AP has trademarked.

You have a title like Robin Hood, wich is actually pretty specific to a degree that I (personally) don't like it, since there seems to be a new movie every year, altough the Disney Fox Robin Hood is clearly the best.
But there is also "Valkyrie".

While Valkyrie may sound like shit, it could actually make one hell of a game, if it's about to collect heroes souls (Einherjiar) to fight with Odin in Ragnarök.
That'd be as epic as LotR and everyone knows the lore to a degree! - Give that shit a good art & sound package and I'm all in!
You guys know "Valkyrie Profile"? I love that game.

So basically: Just don't overdo it! Dialed in is... well let's say it's not the disaster movie age anymore and that friendly tone and smartphone spin doesn't make it any easier if I'm not really into it. Houdini does a great job as an original theme, has a lot of woth for it's money but it's not en par with art/ lcd.

To elaborate that further take RAZA:
It's a Theme Park & Zombie game. Is that better then a pure Theme Park or a pure Zombie game? What if I like one but not the other?

If you do an original theme: Do it simple ore relate to something that is still popular! Give me an enemy to fight (I love BKSoR), a princess to rescue (wich was supposed to be in BKSoR but removed due to, uh... archaic?) , a Kingdom to conquer or to be the best (Pokémon Trainer, Ninja, Whatever)!

#4971 75 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I have to add something regarding licensed games, where I think most of you are... over simplifying.
Yes of course licensed games have become more important. First off back in the very old days a license couldn't make much of an impact, since a game like the original KISS would have KISS Artwork on it but... that's about it. No music, video or even elaborate toys to differenciate this game from the others.
And today the audience is still smaller then back in the day so it is kinda "playing it save" with using a license many people love.
So it is easy to explain, easy to sell and people will buy it blindfolded because of it - but there are also people that don't buy a great game because they actively dislike the license.
To shorten it:
Yes it's wise to use a license but to not to is also ok if you do it the right way.
So what is the right way? - Let's explain the wrong way first since it's more fun.
The wrong way is a game like Dialed In, with a plot so over complicated and niche noone can relate to (and a lot of other stuff).
So if you look into some unlicensed games that stood the test of time, that's something like Medival Madness and ToTaN.
Both are original themes with something nearly everyone can relate to (in deistinction to fighting disasters with a cellphone) wich is Knights and the Medival Age and Arabian Fairytales. And both have a extremely simple objective: "Rescue the Princess" or "Fight every Villain/ defeat everyone to become the Best"! - In that regard GoT Rulewise is very much like like Medival Madness, but MM has cooler toys (and I personally dislike GoT dark tone).
What I'm trying to say here is that an original theme can work fine (altough you'll never get blind sales) if you don't over specify it.
A game like Fish Tales wouldn't work anymore since it's too specific and the audience too small... kinda like Oktoberfest.
Heist is doing it in a great way by taking something that people like, witthout actually having to license anything.
But you can be completely original. So just have a look at the titles AP has trademarked.
You have a title like Robin Hood, wich is actually pretty specific to a degree that I (personally) don't like it, since there seems to be a new movie every year, altough the Disney Fox Robin Hood is clearly the best.
But there is also "Valkyrie".
While Valkyrie may sound like shit, it could actually make one hell of a game, if it's about to collect heroes souls (Einherjiar) to fight with Odin in Ragnarök.
That'd be as epic as LotR and everyone knows the lore to a degree! - Give that shit a good art & sound package and I'm all in!
You guys know "Valkyrie Profile"? I love that game.
So basically: Just don't overdo it! Dialed in is... well let's say it's not the disaster movie age anymore and that friendly tone and smartphone spin doesn't make it any easier if I'm not really into it. Houdini does a great job as an original theme, has a lot of woth for it's money but it's not en par with art/ lcd.
To elaborate that further take RAZA:
It's a Theme Park & Zombie game. Is that better then a pure Theme Park or a pure Zombie game? What if I like one but not the other?
If you do an original theme: Do it simple ore relate to something that is still popular! Give me an enemy to fight (I love BKSoR), a princess to rescue (wich was supposed to be in BKSoR but removed due to, uh... archaic?) , a Kingdom to conquer or to be the best (Pokémon Trainer, Ninja, Whatever)!

Literally the two games you mentioned MM and TOTAN are parodies/rip offs of licensed themes that they either couldn’t or didn’t try to get. Monty Python’s the Holy Grail and Aladdin. Theme matters first and foremost. Your Valkyrie idea, throw something like God or War or Marvels Thor over it and you will sell 10 times more. Theme matters.

#4972 75 days ago
Quoted from gecko157:

Theme matters.

It helps. It isn't the end all, be all. Love Doctor Who, but never watched it. I fucking hate Iron Maiden music, love the pin. Couldn't care less about The Wizard of Oz movie, but love the pin. Whirlwind is awesome, couldn't possibly care about.... weather?

#4973 75 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

It helps. It isn't the end all, be all. Love Doctor Who, but never watched it. I fucking hate Iron Maiden music, love the pin. Couldn't care less about The Wizard of Oz movie, but love the pin. Whirlwind is awesome, couldn't possibly care about.... weather?

You will if it does this to your house at 2:05 in the morning

FB46A06D-E55C-403F-879A-174134965A34 (resized).png
#4974 75 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

It helps. It isn't the end all, be all. Love Doctor Who, but never watched it. I fucking hate Iron Maiden music, love the pin. Couldn't care less about The Wizard of Oz movie, but love the pin. Whirlwind is awesome, couldn't possibly care about.... weather?

Where did I say it’s the end all be all? I said it matters, that’s all.

#4975 74 days ago
Quoted from gecko157:

Where did I say it’s the end all be all? I said it matters, that’s all.

But... it doesn't. You could give me a theme about toilet paper, but if zombie yeti did the art and Keith Johnson doing code, with Keith Elwin doing the game design, I'd be in here asking everyone strategies on how to get better scores in "wipe your ass mutiball."

#4976 74 days ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

New SDTM Episode!
Episode 108: Reviewing The Reviews Part Deux
Also, now you can submit your own weighted grading reviews with the rest of the SDTM Community!

Cool video! Sounds like you may have seen Erics next game from JJP?

-1
#4977 74 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

But... it doesn't. You could give me a theme about toilet paper, but if zombie yeti did the art and Keith Johnson doing code, with Keith Elwin doing the game design, I'd be in here asking everyone strategies on how to get better scores in "wipe your ass mutiball."

It does and you’re wrong

#4978 74 days ago

Another Great show! Appreciate you guys doing a team-up to entertain as always. Side note, Baywatch is a D I think Bone has been hiding out in the wine cellar again.

#4979 74 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

But... it doesn't. You could give me a theme about toilet paper, but if zombie yeti did the art and Keith Johnson doing code, with Keith Elwin doing the game design, I'd be in here asking everyone strategies on how to get better scores in "wipe your ass mutiball."

That would be a good game - and even better with a good theme.

#4980 74 days ago

And I agree - vault LOTR

#4981 74 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I have to add something regarding licensed games, where I think most of you are... over simplifying.
Yes of course licensed games have become more important. First off back in the very old days a license couldn't make much of an impact, since a game like the original KISS would have KISS Artwork on it but... that's about it. No music, video or even elaborate toys to differenciate this game from the others.
And today the audience is still smaller then back in the day so it is kinda "playing it save" with using a license many people love.
So it is easy to explain, easy to sell and people will buy it blindfolded because of it - but there are also people that don't buy a great game because they actively dislike the license.
To shorten it:
Yes it's wise to use a license but to not to is also ok if you do it the right way.
So what is the right way? - Let's explain the wrong way first since it's more fun.
The wrong way is a game like Dialed In, with a plot so over complicated and niche noone can relate to (and a lot of other stuff).
So if you look into some unlicensed games that stood the test of time, that's something like Medival Madness and ToTaN.
Both are original themes with something nearly everyone can relate to (in deistinction to fighting disasters with a cellphone) wich is Knights and the Medival Age and Arabian Fairytales. And both have a extremely simple objective: "Rescue the Princess" or "Fight every Villain/ defeat everyone to become the Best"! - In that regard GoT Rulewise is very much like like Medival Madness, but MM has cooler toys (and I personally dislike GoT dark tone).
What I'm trying to say here is that an original theme can work fine (altough you'll never get blind sales) if you don't over specify it.
A game like Fish Tales wouldn't work anymore since it's too specific and the audience too small... kinda like Oktoberfest.
Heist is doing it in a great way by taking something that people like, witthout actually having to license anything.
But you can be completely original. So just have a look at the titles AP has trademarked.
You have a title like Robin Hood, wich is actually pretty specific to a degree that I (personally) don't like it, since there seems to be a new movie every year, altough the Disney Fox Robin Hood is clearly the best.
But there is also "Valkyrie".
While Valkyrie may sound like shit, it could actually make one hell of a game, if it's about to collect heroes souls (Einherjiar) to fight with Odin in Ragnarök.
That'd be as epic as LotR and everyone knows the lore to a degree! - Give that shit a good art & sound package and I'm all in!
You guys know "Valkyrie Profile"? I love that game.
So basically: Just don't overdo it! Dialed in is... well let's say it's not the disaster movie age anymore and that friendly tone and smartphone spin doesn't make it any easier if I'm not really into it. Houdini does a great job as an original theme, has a lot of woth for it's money but it's not en par with art/ lcd.
To elaborate that further take RAZA:
It's a Theme Park & Zombie game. Is that better then a pure Theme Park or a pure Zombie game? What if I like one but not the other?
If you do an original theme: Do it simple ore relate to something that is still popular! Give me an enemy to fight (I love BKSoR), a princess to rescue (wich was supposed to be in BKSoR but removed due to, uh... archaic?) , a Kingdom to conquer or to be the best (Pokémon Trainer, Ninja, Whatever)!

Very well stated DS. However, licensed vs non-licensed doesn’t imply that a game will be good vs bad. Our argument is that games like Houdini, Dialed In, and theoretically Valkeryie, no matter how good, fall short to a significant degree in sales, thus a bad move for manufacturers

#4982 74 days ago
Quoted from gecko157:

It does and you’re wrong

What games do you own? I'm curious about the themes in your house right now.

#4983 74 days ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

Very well stated DS. However, licensed vs non-licensed doesn’t imply that a game will be good vs bad. Our argument is that games like Houdini, Dialed In, and theoretically Valkeryie, no matter how good, fall short to a significant degree in sales, thus a bad move for manufacturers

I was not arguing against that, it makes a lot of sense to use a license and I never argued about good or bad games.

I'm just arguing that there are different kinds of unlicensed games and how you can make them appealing to a broad audience.
Dialed In sold about 40% what WoZ did according to Jack about 18 months ago. - That is kinda horrible saleswise but still pretty respectable for an original theme, THAT NOONE CAN RELATE TO. XD
So my claim would be if you do a theme with a broader appeal like described, it could still sell well (not as good as a licensed game) and make up for the lower sales numbers in license fees and else. At least to a degree where I wouldn't say there is "no market".

I'd love to see the sales numbers of BKSoR. Of course I expect them to sell less of it then usual, but with no big initial hype that quickly dies off, it seems to have a pretty long breath. There are still people getting them NIB, I'm saving up money for one too. It's a game won't order blindfolded, but I really got to love it playing it on location. The "quest" you are given is simple, you battle the Black Knight constantly. - I find this more appealing then to shoot a bash toy that only relates to a certain mode or nothing at all. (Why do I shoot Herman Munster at all? Why do I shoot the Vengeance Constantly? Why is there even an exploding Death Star, a toy that only fires up extremely rare?)

And: The best selling Videogames are "original" games; or to put it more accurately, have become a license in it's own.

#4984 74 days ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

Very well stated DS. However, licensed vs non-licensed doesn’t imply that a game will be good vs bad. Our argument is that games like Houdini, Dialed In, and theoretically Valkeryie, no matter how good, fall short to a significant degree in sales, thus a bad move for manufacturers

I think there is a huge difference between something like Houdini and Dialed In. Houdini, while unlicensed, is a recognizable theme that has broad recognition and appeal to many. Dialed In is what? a city with disasters happening (what was that old computer game?), just not a lot of recognition or appeal, branding and appeal is where it falls short, a dude with a cell phone? wtf.

#4985 74 days ago

Regarding licensed vs unlicensed themes I think there's been plenty of botched licensed pinball machines over the years. The Walking Dead, Guardians of the Galaxy, Pirates (both the Stern and JJP version), Game of Thrones, and probably a few others all fell short in regards to theme integration in my opinion as there's a lack of licensed assets. Either the manufacturer got licensed actor audio, but no actor video (or vice versa), or only had access to pictures of actors but then couldn't use their likeness in other areas of the game, etc. The same can even be said for Willy Wonka with the odd use of licensed assets since you often see a silent video clip from the movie playing but then don't hear any of the actors.

The above example is why I think a game liked Dialed In stands out and personally is why I prefer it over a majority of licensed games. No sacrifices had to be made with that licensed as everything is original. Nothing had to be comprised with the animations, audio, and rules due to licensing restrictions. When it comes to a modern licensed pinball machine having full assets probably only 50% of games check that box. Ghostbusters, Batman 66, Elvira HOH, Hobbit, Star Wars, and all of the modern music pins are some of the pins that contain what may be considered full assets.

#4986 74 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Regarding licensed vs unlicensed themes I think there's been plenty of botched licensed pinball machines over the years. The Walking Dead, Guardians of the Galaxy, Pirates (both the Stern and JJP version), Game of Thrones, and probably a few others all fell short in regards to theme integration in my opinion as there's a lack of licensed assets. Either the manufacturer got licensed actor audio, but no actor video (or vice versa), or only had access to pictures of actors but then couldn't use their likeness in other areas of the game, etc. The same can even be said for Willy Wonka with the odd use of licensed assets since you often see a silent video clip from the movie playing but then don't hear any of the actors.
The above example is why I think a game liked Dialed In stands out and personally is why I prefer it over a majority of licensed games. No sacrifices had to be made with that licensed as everything is original. Nothing had to be comprised with the animations, audio, and rules due to licensing restrictions. When it comes to a modern licensed pinball machine having full assets probably only 50% of games check that box. Ghostbusters, Batman 66, Elvira HOH, Hobbit, Star Wars, and all of the modern music pins are some of the pins that contain what may be considered full assets.

without a doubt the biggest botched licensed theme in the history of pinball is Sterns JP2 (which is shame because its a great game)....its basically a cartoonish dinosaur game with a great theme song and logo.

#4987 74 days ago

The boys are back in town! Great episode fellas. I really enjoy these re-reviews. It's uniquely appropriate for pinball. My feelings about certain pins change all the time so there's no need to be permanently locked in to any score. Especially when they can change so much after release. I'm really looking forward to the new reviews.

#4988 74 days ago

I don’t understand why anyone even tries to argue the value of original themes when it’s so clear...... from a financial perspective (which is the most important part for companies), they don’t sell as well. Period. End of story.

Take an original theme’s great layout and apply a good IP...... it sells much better. Very simple.

Great episode guys

#4989 74 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I don’t understand why anyone even tries to argue the value of original themes when it’s so clear...... from a financial perspective (which is the most important part for companies), they don’t sell as well. Period. End of story.
Take an original theme’s great layout and apply a good IP...... it sells much better. Very simple.
Great episode guys

There are themes that are more popular than any IP.

Like: "Breathing"!

Yes, you may now delete your account in shame!!!

#4990 74 days ago

I have a game idea:

I call it "Corona - the pinball".

The goal is to get no multiball!

#4991 69 days ago

NEW SDTM Cary Hardy Episode!

Cary VS Lionman

#4992 66 days ago

This or that JP premium or stranger things premium with UV kit.

#4993 66 days ago
Quoted from alpo3744:

This or that JP premium or stranger things premium with UV kit.

That's an easy one. 99.9999% of people would pick JP Premium.

2 weeks later
#4994 46 days ago

NEW SDTM EPISODE! Watch Now!

Stranger Things Prem/LE Pinball Review

flipnoutpinball.com/sdtm

#4995 45 days ago

Good episode y’all. Good to see you and Greg putting out some content. Stranger things is a awsome theme. I have never played one but if chuckwurt is saying it is good...it’s gotta be. Oh yeah Greg were is the revamped octo shirt? Ummm waitinnng!

#4996 45 days ago
Quoted from Gunnut40:

Stranger things is a awsome theme. I have never played one but if chuckwurt is saying it is good...it’s gotta be.

Well it's not. Lol

#4997 45 days ago
Quoted from Gunnut40:

Good episode y’all. Good to see you and Greg putting out some content. Stranger things is a awsome theme. I have never played one but if chuckwurt is saying it is good...it’s gotta be. Oh yeah Greg were is the revamped octo shirt? Ummm waitinnng!

It’s definitely solid and getting better and better with each update. I like how the stern team is getting audit dumps from all the owners to help them make score balancing changes and their systematic approach to improving all the modes.

#4998 45 days ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

NEW SDTM EPISODE! Watch Now!
Stranger Things Prem/LE Pinball Review
flipnoutpinball.com/sdtm

Not that I'm a big Stranger Things fan, but I have to ask regarding the SDTM grading system: how does all A's (varying) and a single B (worth only 10%) add up to only an overall B+ grade from Zach?!

Seems kind of wacky.

SDTM Stranger Things Grades (resized).png

#4999 45 days ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Not that I'm a big Stranger Things fan, but I have to ask regarding the SDTM grading system: how does all A's (varying) and a single B (worth only 10%) add up to only an overall B+ grade from Zach?!
Seems kind of wacky.
[quoted image]

EVERY game is a B+

#5000 45 days ago

Tuna D. Good observation. Thankfully Zach is not a school teacher. Lol. His cumulative grade should be more like a A....

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