The reason you are not paying $4500 for your iPhone is because it is build in China, where production cost are minimal. There are even cheaper countries to manufacture in than China.

What is the VAT tax adding to the cost of Pinball machines built in Britain or The Netherlands?

I would not be shocked if the $1000-$1500 deposit, that people rush to the front of the line to pay, would entirely pay for the production cost of a pin built in China.

If the market will bear the prices that Stern gets for Pro, LE and Premiums. There would be a MUCH higher profit potential for a new company.

MOST importantly, Current new pinball manufacturers seem to be struggling mostly with money for production. So let's forget about profit here for a moment and just consider the lower production cost as a way to actually get the pin produced and in the hands of your customers without excuses about delays.

Obviously if you are going to have product made in China. You go to the factory often during production. You do not blindly hire a company their to do it for you. Anyone serious about this process would have boots on the ground during production.

Quality control (including safety) is the most important thing about production.

I had a friend that had home water filtration system manufactured in China. And he had to be carefully and watch the manufacture. If you are not careful here is how it will work:

-You hire company A to produce 10000 widgets at $1 each
-They (Unbeknownst to you) hire company B to make them for them at 50 cents each.
-Then company B hires company C to make them at 25 cents each.

And the resulting product is crap made with God knows what impurities (lead, mercury... etc). Company A has made 75cents per unit and done nothing.

If company A knows you are aware of this and will not accept anything but high quality.. then they will bite the bullet and produce to your specification.

FORGET thinking manufacturing in China is impossible or you will only get bad quality. How good does your iPhone / iPad work? Pretty F'ing good.

I'll tell you one thing for sure. If had a pinball machine company. I would not be producing the pin in close proximity to where i lived for my convenience. It would be where I got the highest quality finished product at the lowest possible price. For two reasons... to maximize profit and delivery a product that beat the others in the competitor marketplace.

I damn sure would not be taking $1500 deposits or $8500 full payments... and delivering only excuses to my customers.

Let me guess... you don't have smart phone, flat screen TV?
Newsflash friend... look to your right and left and count 10 things that were produced by one of those children / slaves.

Rid yourself of every Chinese product that you own... then come back and lecture the world on the evils of outsourcing.

Interesting that you mention lightbulbs...

Where do you think 90%+ of the LED's in the pinball marketplace are produced?
It is not the USA I can tell you that.

Spoken like a eco warrior with nothing made in asia in his home. It must be great to be as nobel as you are.

Here is an idea.... How about only those with NO Chinese products in their possession bitch about how bad items being produced in China are?

If so vid... another reason to produce Pins in China. China is building a new coal power plant each week to power factories to build iDevices so that Eco-Warriors worldwide can feel better about not building coal plants in their own countries, while they simultaneously lecturing the world on the evils of Chinese production.

... and bitch and moan because their Big Lewboski and Alien Pinball machines are not getting made due to lack of production money, VAT taxes, Export shipping logistic costs, surprise new production costs, etc.

Sorry friend... I loath Hypocrisy. You simple can not wear a pair of Nikes and lecture people on child labor, it is just that simple. And to sit and type distain for what is the facts of manufacturing life on a computer, iPad, or iPhone... or whatever. Built in China... It is just surreal.

Also, honestly as far as STERN or JJP being manufactured here in the good old USA, Aren't we really talking about these machines being "assembled" in the USA? What component parts are being made in the USA... The wood cabinet?

Okay, I am being a bit facetious there, but realistic... what % of the parts come from China (or wherever) already? I would wager most.

BTW, I am sure both Stern and JJP would prefer to buy all American parts, and I have nothing but respect for both companies.

Read my first post again.

It was threads on why Alien and The Big Lewbowski Pins are not getting produced fast enough (or at all). Hopefully this is not a big news flash, but the reason is always one thing... 100% of the time... money! Not enough of it.

(AND... honestly. It was others thread of complaints about what the price increase is on Stern's new Star Wars or Batman Premium or LE machine, and quality issues.)

New manufacturers typically have little start up funds (or not enough) Why do you think you guys' are a paying a deposit? Or having to buy the machines straight out? Why do you think that your deposit is non-refundable? Because that money(all of it) is spent on production of your pinball machine. These companies have NO surplus money lying around, for deposits or refunds. Production is a situation of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If a company is producing 300 pins... They probably are not seeing a profit until pin #225 or #250 OR they are hoping make enough on on their first pinball machine to pay for itself and then have a company in place that they can actually make a profit on their second pinball project.

So my point was that if British or Dutch pinball machines were made in China (by the same Dutch or British manufactures) costs would be much lower and they could better afford their production cost (which it seems they can not at this time).. and their customers would get their pinball machines... not excuses.

And this final comment is for my USA brothers: I am most specifically talking about Alien and The Big Lewbowski: both foreign companies. Your money is not going to American Jobs on those machines. How does it matter to you if they are made in China?

What he is saying is correct... It is not a matter if a company "wants" to produce something in their home country, it is if they can actually do it and stay in business.

Let's say you are producing and children's book... with 40 pages of illustrations, You can either print that book in Canada, Mexico or China and use some artist from Brazil or Indonesia. And produce a high quality book, and MAYBE turn a profit (i.e. make a living of your work to feed your family) OR pay 4 times the cost for an Artist in your own country and 3 times the cost for a local Printer... and loose money. But of course you would never loose money because when you sat down and did your cost estimates you would know from the beginning that the project was not financially feasible. And the item would never get produced.

Is that the cost of patriotism? Your family starving?

Manufactures often have no choice but to produce things in Asian... either that or the item does not get produced at all.

No... he does not know. That is the problem. I explained it... you explained it, he will never get it.

Correct... an example being Apple products

What you're missing is this, while profit is the goal in manufacturing it is never a certitude. It is far more likely that a manufacture will go out of business instead of make a profit and staying in business.

To get to the point where you have finally made a profit you had to have made a number of decisions that effect your bottom line. Your cost of production, labor, distribution and marketing determine your MSRP. Basically your profit is the hopeful result from a series of good choices.

The choice is often China (our outsourcing to some other country) or not at all. People do not just automatically buy your product no matter the price you put on it. You are forced to raise the cost of your MSRP based on all of those costs. Product with American labor MSRP $40 same product with Chinese labor MSRP S20.

You do not make any profit with the first option, and on second one maybe you do... maybe your making $3 on it.

So the manufacturer is not "increasing" profits... he is actually making one.

So here is your choice.... Product made with outsourced labor... or the same product NOT made at all because labor in your own country would not make it cost feasible to even produce.

Labor market....I couldn't afford you to pay you what you wanted to this product
....I am sorry

BUT, Box store retailers have your $20 product that they bought from you for $10. With that profit they can pay taxes, pay their employees wages, provide healthcare. Amazon's can sell it for $18 which ultimately pays wages for FedEX, UPS and USPS
..... You're Welcome.

And maybe your product will need parts, 3rd party accessories or repair. Those are local jobs too. None of which would have occurred if you did not outsource. (again, based on the condition that outsourcing was your only choice to actually product item to begin with)

The reality is that in many countries women have little power and factory work is blessing to them. In some countries a woman's only other marketable skill is prostitution. Which profession do you think she is going to feel exploited in? A factory job that she decided she wanted to do, or prostitution that she was forced in to? We are talking about real people making employment decision that feed their children.

It would be nice if people who were so concerned with exploitation would consider the consequence of the "help" they were trying to force on people who never asked them for that help.

I would say this might be a concern to Homepin if they were manufacturing fidget spinners. Personally I do not see a booming market in bootleg pinball machines.

Okay... what is that %?