You have to see this movie on Netflix. It was really eye opening about everything going on.I can't recommend it enough.

Hahaha actually Wei-mun. Hahaha

Pls tell me there is no mention of, 'OCTO MANUFACTURING ' in that video..

Actually Apple don't manufacture ANYTHING themselves. It is all contracted out. The "Apple factories" in China are mostly (not ALL, but most) owned and operated by HonHai Precision, known in the west as Foxxcon, a 100% Taiwanese owned and run business with factories all over the world including in the USA.

HonHai have been actively (but quietly) moving operations out of China to more "friendly" countries such as Vietnam and India.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were completely gone from China in a few years time as they continue to transition and as the "smell" related to anything with Made in China rises!

Okay, potato, potatoe, but the point is Apple product manufacture is being moved out of China, and it has less to do with the "smell" of made in China than a straight business decision as China makes unilateral moves with business in China (and the crazy Hong Kong bullet to the financial brain) that are scaring the crap out of entrenched big western companies that manufacture much or all of their lines there. They have seen the writing on the wall that China may be an actual danger to them - they gave the govt too much money and power. Spreading that around in many countries of SE Asia that all want that business (thailand is bending over backwards to attract new factories) will dilute the power and remove economic and (stolen) technological power from China.

It's happening, and it should have happened 10 years ago.

Not Potato, potatoe at all.

Simple fact: The Apple manufacture is NOT done by them and the decisions about where to base the factory are not made by Apple but by the OWNERS of those factories.

Foxxcon is the owner and the Taiwanese owners are making decisions about where to base manufacturing - no doubt prodded by Apple but the financial choice is the owners of the factories.

Also the "smell" of being made in China is a HUGE factor in relocating factories as well as the stupid policy changes made by the CCP as you mention.

Many people are rethinking large purchases based on the country of origin, I have witnessed this first hand and a lot more than just once!

As is often the case, history provides an insight. Remember back in the 1960's when everything coming
from Japan was considered cheap junk? Now take a look at the mix of cars on the road in the USA.
China is a MUCH larger country with FAR more resources. Human and natural. They can dominate any
market they choose to.

Take a look at tools, Harbor Freight being one small example. Also electronic test equipment and
radios of all sorts.

Will some enterprising factory owner or investor who likes pins in China start offering competetive
products? Time will tell but IMO, don't be too dismissive of the possibility
Steve

But... But... Japan is still known for it's dominance in quality manufacturing. It's partly related to culture. The majority of Chinese workers are as close to literal slaves as you can get. Pride in quality simply cannot exist in that type of environment. Sure, there are better factories that have better QC, but they just throw more slaves at the problem.

Apples and oranges.

Sure, there are plenty of labor issues there, as there are many here. More Chinese millennial have houses than American millennials. That is in percentage of the populace, not count. For the average citizen in China is gradually becoming better, and worse for the US. At the end of the day unskilled labor is pretty poorly treated the world over with a few exceptions

Lol like that "Pride in quality" Stern shows... you could make that case back in the bally/Williams era. That stuff was quality engineered and built to last. I enjoy plenty of Stern games, but they feel like cheap junk in comparison build quality wise. China would be able to manufacture to Stern standards in short order if they decided to enter the market.

Those cheap ass Chinese pinball Hawaiian shirts going around are a perfect match for this machine

I don't remember Japan torturing, enslaving, and murdering political disentents and ethnic minorities though.

Are you serious, They were on par with the Nazis pre and during WW2. Some nazis were even shocked by their brutality.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

Agree 100%, disappointed to see this nonsense on Pinside.

And for the record, China manufacturers are as capable as anyone at building kick-ass high-quality products these days:

20190723134334_32355f65 (resized).jpeg

LM-845IA-inside-1000x1000web (resized).jpg

China plays by exactly " 0 " rules regarding manufacturing. None. No EPA, DEP, Unions, gov't oversight, OSHA....nothing! If a worker gets hurt, maimed or killed on the line, you think the factory shuts down for investigation? Think again. He'll be removed and replaced with another STAT. Chinese mfg's have open season on ANYTHING that is made in the US, and we buy it at a remarkably discounted price. Post-WWII we became bloated with regs, we've done this to ourselves.

In 1970? Were they our highest trading partner at the time? Oh wait, that's right. We were at war with them.

Google, "rape of nanjing"

This has changed a lot in the last 10-15 yrs as most of the worlds anything is manufactured in china. Iphone and now the worlds mobile phone market brought along a slew of leading edge manufacturing tech and with that, loads of labour and that labour has become a new middle class (maybe not american std middle class, think mexico or brazil). Japans manufacturing is in very specialized goods for commercial applications but the bulk of consumer goods, and the talent to create them at a worlds standard level has moved to China.

That might have been what it used to be in China, but times have changed there. Their version of the EPA has been cracking down on polluters. I'd equate current China with the standards the US had in the 70s/early 80s. if you want to see something truely frightening google Bamboo scafolding and see how china is building their skyscrapers.

Hahaha, this is so INCORRECT you couldn't be more wrong!

Wages have gone through the roof, workers rights are seriously protected, in some cases FAR better than in the west.

As a single example, maternity leave has just been increased from 8 months to one year FULLY PAID by the EMPLOYER, not the Government! On top of the year off, an employer cannot, sack, demote or reduce wages to a returning woman after her year off, fully paid with all benefits for a further TWO YEARS!

I have plenty of other real world examples that I have personally experienced (and in some cases paid for) just like the maternity one.

Please tell me ANY other country where workers "rights" are protected to this level?

Please stop talking crap about things you prove you have zero knowledge about and are relying on biased media reporting that is just so wrong. The media are the ones who should be locked up!

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Why be a smartarse - commenting on something you obviously have zero knowledge of? If you don't know then how about just don't comment?

I know from first hand, personal experience exactly what goes on when you hire Chinese factory workers - do you? Pfttt....thought not.

There are still countless factories with suicide nets, factories with women living there most of the year etc etc. I just did a quick Google and the NYT, Forbes, NPR, etc, etc have current stories about abhorrent working conditions, state-run Union representation, and detainment of protestors. There are many documentaries that thoroughly cover the issues as well. Wages are up to what, almost three bucks in the best of cases? Who cares if you're working 6 or 7 twelves per week with no rights?

My gif should be enough. Trying to argue that manufacturing in China has any glamour to it is laughable.

Don’t believe everything you read on Google, I’d probably believe the dude who sounds like he’s had direct experience in this market. Internet and media is full of shit!!!

My good friend has lived in China for a decade teaching English to Chinese kids. From what he’s told me about living in Shenzhen it’s not that bad. Years ago he when he first started he was working in a small rural town and that was pretty backwards compared to city life, but there’s places here in the west that aren’t much better then that either.

Point is the people working in China don’t have it as bad as a lot of media would have you believe. Sure there are horrible cases, but there are horrible cases everywhere. Remember years ago when that guy in the states went into work and shot a bunch of co-workers. It started the term “he went postal”. I remember hearing that as a younger person and thought, wow America must be a horrible place if stuff like that happens. Now is America a horrible place, or was that just a horrible incident? Chinese factories having suicide nets is pretty bad at face value, but I’ve heard equally bad reports from all over.

I type this while on my iPad, another example of high quality goods manufactured in China, in fact the USA probably doesn’t even have any manufacturing facilities capable of producing iPads in quantity like the Chinese do.

I've been to Shenzhen on business visiting factories. working conditions are fine, people are happy and well taken care of and their infrastructure puts ours to shame. only negative thing i'd say about it was the stuff they eat. they'll eat anything that walks, swims, crawls. I stay at the Hilton, and the hotel restaurant has a pick your own lobster tank- except it was pick your own turtle. I wont even talk about the stuff you can get from the food carts at the market. You'd never know it was a communist country other then when you'd pass a government building.

Watch the American Factory documentery I recommended above. It was filmed right up the road from me and I know the guy they hired to increase productivity who told me everything. It also has credibility by the synopsis of the former president of the United States at the end!
Doesn't line up at all to what you claim. It's bad. Real bad! It's all there on the documentery.

I inquired about the game and all the LE's are spoken for .
I always miss out

I'm sure the Uyghurs are all overjoyed that the highest level of worker protection. Lucky bastards.

Joking aside I really like some of the innovations they have done on this game. So taking it seriously I really like the LED lighting trim they have on the cabinet. You put that trim on a Tron and that thing would would look stellar. Also the playfield appears plastic like an Interflip game. I'm also a sucker for all generations of pinball but the charm of EM's are some of my favorite and this has the EM feel with a modern vibe. For a ticket redemption game this could work with all the flashy lights on it.

You guys that think conditions in China aren't that bad are hilarious. All the problems are fake news, like everything else in the world...

WWII.

Most American views of China,
and it's workers is shown with
an Agenda behind it.
In Orlando, 10 minutes from Disney,
are both multi million dollar houses, as well as vine covered tin roof shacks from the 30s, that families still live in.
If you were only shown one group of pictures the perception would be different.

Looks like a decent design, for 1976.

Is it perfect? Definitely not. Does it have some isolated as well as systemic issues? Definitely yes. The US does as well. Have you ever been to China or talked to someone from China? Are the only sources you have looked at from western countries.

I'll admit my view of China was way off until I went there myself. There is certainly poverty there; albeit mostly rural whereas ours is mostly urban. A city like Shanghai is a world class city on par or surpassing the vast majority of the world. They have amazing Infrastructure. For instance most airports at least for.major cities make the us look like a 3rd world country .

I've been to China many times and married to a Chinese woman. My in laws in China were blue collar workers. are retired with pensions in their early 50s. That would be very rare to happen here.

Once again China has significant issues and is by no means perfect, but it gets old everything the topic comes up with Americans and it is abundantly obvious they are just parroting the western "common knowledge" which is by in large propaganda and half truths

Isn't it Ryman?

China is like 5 giant countries, so even if I did go there, I wouldn't have a clear picture of the country and how it's economy works. The Chinese government is pretty much fascist. Yes, there are wealthy people there, but the manufacturing industry, specifically, is rife with systemic, extreme exploitation.

By your assessment, every single government report, media report and documentary that reveals and criticises this system is incorrect. I tend to trust those sources more than a dude who's been there.

I'm not saying trust me, but look at balanced sources at least. There is a LOT of ridiculous anti china propaganda out there. They are the main geopolitical rival of the western world, yet the western world is reliant on them economically. That makes for a tense situation, and a lot of propaganda on both sides..

It would be like someome thinking they have an accurate and balanced view of the US by watching nothing but Russian or Chinese sources. Would that be a fair view? Probably not.

Little or no interest in pinball there? Okay.

But pinball? The coolest hobby ever, remember?

Sounds like a recipe for a fad. All it would take is for some celebrity there to declare it to be awesome, and there could be a larger market for it there than there ever was in the States, overnight!

And don't worry about them confusing ramps and lamps. The R vs L thing is an issue for speakers of Japanese, not Mandarin, which has both sounds. (Nice display of ignorance above, lads.)

I get what you mean and generally agree that there is a skewed view, but the government there is truly awful. I work with a woman who fled Hong Kong. She has some crazy stories, even from Hong Kong.

I owned and operated my own factory in China for 5 years (and yes, I lived there as well).

Almost all the stories you read "in the west" and on Google are skewed and originally might be based on a tiny bit of fact but then altered drastically to make China "look bad" (mind you, they are managing to do that on their own recently without any help from the media).

I will give one example, that of the "suicide nets" at Foxxcon. My HR staff member was a relative of the HR manager at this exact Foxxcon factory so this is directly from the horses mouth NOT fake western , sensationalist news BS!

The very first suicide at this factory was a lovers tiff - "XXX doesn't love me any more" and they jumped. The company bosses decided to help the family and paid out US$200K. This was a HUGE mistake by them!

Next thing we have people jumping from the building so their families could also receive $200K - yes, this "IS" how some Chinese think - weird to us but there you are.

After a few of these incidents the bosses erected the nets. I have pictures of the nets taken by ME not fake news reporters.

The above is the TRUE STORY and THE FACTS surrounding the so called suicide nets and I will bet not one person here actually knows this because of FAKE NEWS!

I have hundreds of other stories - DO NOT believe everything you read in the western press. Details about horrors near Tibet are likely very true. the CCP are without doubt a dangerous enemy that the west SHOULD be waking up to NOW but the Chinese people are not the problem.

One final tip, if you manage to fly internationally, never EVER consider even transiting in Hong Kong. HK is finished - you can be arrested at the airport (even in transit) for an offhanded comment you might have made online about China. Trust me they keep every record of every tiny detail.

Sadly, the CCP have destroyed a once great city!

Unfucking believable. So much for human rights, freedom of speech, etc.

Lol women don't even get guaranteed time off for childbirth here. How about 300k medical bills? Medical bills in the 10s of thousands WITH insurance. We are on par with third world countries in many measures. Those aren't human rights?

Let's fix our own shit before bitching about the rest of the world. Or if you don't like China's behavior let's see you boycott them. You typed this message from Chinese made hardware

I have family friends that just emigrated with < 3 months notice in an effort to escape before things get worse. They have children and no definite employment opportunities waiting for them. They just want to ensure their previous activities, cannot be actioned upon in the future.

I did remind them that freedom in north america is just a term thats directly related to income.

Don't really care about the theme or gameplay on this one. Hard pass here. Not going to deliberately outsource another industry to China. Pinball can stay made in the USA for me (and yes I realize many of the components originate in China but you've got to make a stand somewhere).

Yeah, you might want to do some cursory googling on structural uses of bamboo. There's quite a lot of research going on into figuring out how it can be used on the INSIDE of buildings as a material. As a grass, bamboo grows extremely quickly, is very sustainable, and the tensile strength is outstanding. That's not to say there aren't other considerations and negatives for using it, but....you're going to be seeing a lot more of that, guaranteed.

I ate turtle soup in New Orleans. What's your point here?

This thread went dumpster fire. I would want that machine for the garage and some laughs at the right price.

Jeez. We all have pins. Go grab a beer and play a few games.

As exaggerated as they may seem, the govt is truly not out for the people.

Newspaper chief editors have been killed in accidents, another had been arrested first week of 2021, office seized.

More recently last week the teachers union was disbanded.

Control the media and now control what is being taught.

In high end hifi they've learned to build stuff that looks good on picture and reused a bunch of classic architectures from the 60s. Sound wise they suck because they use cheap components.

My point is simply the cultural differences between china and the western world. if it came across as a slight to their culture it wasn't my intention.

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I think the thing everyone is missing , is that some people from China decided to make a pinball machine , they could made anything else they wanted , but they came up with a pinball machine , instead of a claw machine or a redemption machine .
We have to be happy about that , don't we .

Edit - yeah , a claw machine is a redemption machine , doh