Thanks for the great words. We looked at many different themes that were available to us and also carefully considered our target market. Thunderbirds is an all time classic that was amazingly popular in most countries around the world EXCEPT the USA. Team America is practically unheard of outside the USA and would have little appeal to anyone else and would probably not sell to any country other than the USA.

Thunderbirds has incredible potential with the toys and action which is all family friendly and this was high on our list of requirements. The story lines and action sequences are ideally suited to pinball more that many other contenders.

We knew right from day one that it would be impossible to please everybody - the comments coming from other countries are all of amazement and people begging to give us money. If it doesn't sell to the USA that won't faze us at all. We have a production limit of 2000 machines worldwide and feel it will be achievable - approximately 25% of these will be sold as kits - yes, a full size pinball kit!

I understand that many in the USA "don't get it" - different parts of the world sure do and that is one reason this theme has "flown under the radar" for others.

www.homepin.com
www.facebook.com/HomepinPinball

That picture really should be shown with the tag underneath it:

ScreenHunter_020.jpg

I have almost decided that I will not make this machine available to the USA market. I may not even include an option for 110V.

The USA was never an intended market. There are 200 other countries..............

Have fun in the USA living in your sheltered world.

I'm busy now - taking the "post to the USA" option off my website for boards I make because I don't think I will sell them to anyone in the US anymore - ByeBye.

Yes, I am taking my bat and ball and going home (if any of you actually understand that).

website updated - there will be a few annoyed USA residents I guess - oh well, you all know best I suppose.

I didn't start this thread and I never had any intention of doing so about this machine. Someone else chose to start this thread. I have just posted the following on an Australian pinball forum. I don't want or need American customers, thanks but no thanks, you just are not worth the trouble. Stick to Stern and JJP - they know best.

***********

The only trouble I have EVER had for 3 years was selling parts to Americans. At least once a week I would get a PP chargeback because the board hadn't arrived in a few days.

I could never win a PP chargeback because it is simply too expensive to post things with tracking from Australia. I was charging $12 for post to the USA but every package cost me $17~18 to send anyway, and with no tracking.

Not a single part was ever returned to me so I assume they did arrive - do you think the buyer contacted me and offered to pay after they received the goods? Hahahaha - NEVER - NOT ONCE!

The end result was that every other buyer paid for these scum to get free parts! I am glad to be rid of them to be frank. In business you do not need (or want) every customer. It is better to weed out the ones that cause you trouble and concentrate on looking after the good ones that appreciate what you do. I can honestly say that for all the customers I have had from the USA there are about 5 who actually were appreciative - the rest, well - you get the picture.

Right from the start I made it 100% clear to the few that I asked about the Thunderbirds theme, that the USA was NOT my target market, I even said to a couple of people (6 months ago) that I probably would not sell to the USA and China at all (they are on this forum - you know who you are).

If my stance on not selling to the USA bothers you that's fine - you can get your parts elsewhere. I am not in this "for the money" and that point has been missed by most. I am doing it because it's what I love to do. That's what makes me different. Comments like "you have cut off 75% of your market" mean nothing to me - so what? I don't care - like I said, it IS NOT about the money.

There is another reason they can get lost but I am instructed not to mention it publically - the above should be enough to make my point crystal clear.

It IS NOT about the money - I do not want ALL business - is that clear enough?

Homepin is and always has been a "hobby business". I do not want it to be a "mega company".

When a faceless American hiding behind cloaked email addresses is blackmailing you it doesn't help either!

You really shouldn't lie. I have said NOTHING on other forums about Americans or Canadians and you know it.

Yes, my platform will be a joke - much like Sterns embedded system - is that also classed as a "joke" by you? Mine will be an embedded system much like every SS pinball machine ever made.

I would be pretty quiet about your marvelous system if I were you until it has time to prove itself.

I assumed you were refering to this mornings carry on (on an Australian forum) where you were basically told to go away because nobody liked your posts and not to this old news that you trot back out that simply proves I am right - "too many" - I didn't say everyone.

You simply cannot work for JJP - I don't believe he would allow an employee to carry on like you are. I cannot believe your digs at my age or state of health - that really is pretty low and I'm sure many here would agree.

What is your beef with me?

To clarify @crash - the USA makes up about 5% of my customers (still does - I have many good customers there) not 99% and never was or will be.

How about you all turn your pitchforks to those that ripped me off with their PP chargebacks and to PP for allowing them.

Trackable shipping from Australia starts at around $40 and simply is not an option for parts under $100 value.

I help pinball enthusiasts keep their machines going - what exactly does Pinchroma do again???

I did not announce my theme here and never had any intention of doing so. I knew well before seeking the licence that it would not fly in the USA. Someone else chose to post about it and start this thread.

If you take offence because I was ripped off by your country men then you have your pitchfork pointed the wrong way - direct your fury at the ones damaging this hobby.

I take serious offence to be labled a cripple that needs a walking frame by Pinchroma - he takes the prize for being a total jerk and proves without any doubt that my assertions about "too many idiots" to be 100% correct.

This forum has become a serious joke and is worse than RGP could ever be.

Run along and build some machines Pinchroma (whoever you actually are - nobody seems to know) and get them delivered to your customers - prove me wrong, I know nothing, Stern knows nothing we are all fools because we don't love your chosen OS.

I am certain Pinchromas "job" is simply to discredit me and anyone else who isn't in awe of the wonderful creation called WOZ.

Hello to all pinball fans.

First let me say that I will never, under any circumstances, condone personal attacks by anyone. That is simply discraceful behaviour. Pinchroma is the worst offender here and I ask that he keeps his opinions of what "he thinks" of me personally and my level of knowledge to himself as it discraces him and his employer.

I have leased 2000 sq mts of factory space - one whole level of a very high quality fitout building that was the office of Skyworth (Google it) and a ground floor level for the heavy machinery. I also have leased one and a half floors of accomodation units for staff and myself to live in.

Those who have not actually been to China and seen things for themselves first hand are being mislead by propaganda promoted by those with a vested interest - no, surely not, the USA couldn't possibly be wrong now could they? I won't waste my time explaining further as some simply will not listen but I do invite ANYONE who is interested enough to get a ticket and land in Hong Kong to visit my factory. I will meet them at the airport and they will be my guest.

If you think that "all factories in China are sweatshops" then you really are living in the distant past. My existing staff have been with me for over eight years and have moved with me to several different offices - they are loyal and very happy working for me (I invite you to ask them when you visit).

Enough talk of "having it made in China" and "China made is crap". Really, where does your iPhone, TV set, GPS, stereo - pretty well any electronic product, most WMS mechanisms and also Stern mechanisms for that matter (why do you think Gary is always visiting China - maybe for the fried rice?).

I am starting, running and overseeing the factory PERSONALLY - I live here - I AM NOT outsourcing the machine and I can guarantee the quality of every part will surprise many. CNC'd flipper assemblies with roller bearings - crap you say??? I could say that flipper assemblies with nylon bushes are crap but I won't. We are making almost everything in house - in my factory.

Most are supportive of my venture but I am surprised at the ignorance, arrogance and straight out hostility of some posters - please, to those, how about you grow up.

Those who know me already know that I am passionate about pinball and electronics. I have been in electronics for over 40 years and I know what makes things work RELIABLY. I said right from day one that Thunderbirds would not work in the USA and that's why I never intended to sell it there. Team America is a very poor rip-off of Thunderbirds, crass and in poor taste IMO.

There are other titles in the works that will certainly make most very surprised. Again, I am not at liberty to say much about them. I also have some of the best minds in the business on team but I see no reason to talk about that, it's my business.

The reason I will not be selling to Nth America (at this stage) is 100% down to the excessive cost of public liability insurance. If you guys didn't love suing each other for the most trivial of things it might be different. Put the blame where it is thanks, Americans have caused this problem themselves.

Thunderbirds has a massive following worlwide with the notable exception of Nth America - this does NOT make it a crap theme or "unheard of" - just to let you know there are many other countries out there besides America - that's right, you are NOT the be all and end all so get over yourselves! That might be a hard pill to swallow for some but in reality it's what most of the world thinks of America generically. Again, you have done it to yourselves, nothing I have done. FWIW I have never in my life heard of "The Great Lebowski" or whatever it is? That doesn't mean I should shitcan it now does it? I certainly wouldn't. When it comes to using a cheap PC motherboard or in some other cases hobby electronics well, let's see what happens in a couple of years....again no more comments from me as I have made my stance clear and I'm too busy setting up a factory.

I've said pretty well all I intend to on this mostly unmoderated site, perhaps I would post more but not when people like Pinchroma can go on a personal attack with seemingly complete immunity. Why do you think companies like Stern don't bother saying anything here?

The above comments may seem a bit harsh and they really only apply to about a dozen people and it's a real pity they are simply not kicked off the site by the moderators as I see the same names causing trouble on nearly every thread I look at.

To the majority of sensible pinball fans who are genuinely interested in progress they can follow progress on my website or (to a lesser extent) on my Facebook page. I wish I was in a position to release a lot more info on Thunderbirds but licencing takes a lot of work (those who have been involved in licencing anything will understand what I mean here). I do have a video currently being made and that will be released in a couple of weeks.

Happy New Year and may it be a great one for pinball - I welcome all new manufacturers to the game, let's see what we can all come up with.

Mike Kalinowski

Don't any of you even realise the Chinese landed on the moon a couple of weeks ago? Their flag will be there now as well I am certain.

The posts after my last prove my point completely about America - go for it boys, keep living in your own little world - last I heard Chinese money is propping up America anyway so you better get used to it!

We will very likely see the RMB replaced as the "world currency" soon as well..........you guys really need to open your eyes.

Last time I looked calling someone a "dickbag" and "you are full of shit" and "lying dinosaur" all in the one post pretty much amounts to a personal attack - but you might have different morals to me......so you are not only a liar but a bad one at that...

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=5892.1515

pinchroma.jpg

The only way I will be able to sell ANY games in the USA is if an agent buys them and resells as I will not pay the insurance premium, an agent already based in the USA may well have access to far better insurance rates than I do. Time will tell - once I have product (and we are talking about other titles as well) there may well be someone interested in being the agent, who knows.

I apologise to people like yourself but have a look at the posts that are so idiotic that they brand all Americans as idiotic rednecks who think that nowhere else exists - I don't have to say anything, these posters do it all.

I certainly don't discriminate against anyone but I don't tolerate fools and idiots very well which is why I do tend to fly off the handle when certain people make some of the comments they have. My family have quite a large sum invested in this project AND it is not only about Thunderbirds - I am starting a pinball factory, I am NOT only making a Thunderbirds pinball machine.

Also people who comment on slave labour and third world conditions in China could not be more wrong and have obviously never seen the place for themselves. The reason "some" products from China are crap rests solely with western buyers (Australians included) screwing factories to a price below manufacturing cost. I won't bore you with details but I have been here long enough to know most of the issues.

I didn't start this thread because I never had any intention of selling this product to the USA - I certainly will be promoting other titles that are in the works as they are more "USA friendly".

The rest of the world is a big enough market for my products - I will never be relying on selling to the USA.

If I wasn't a "strong willed" person with a strong opinion I would never have started this project and I seriously doubt many others would be stupid enough to. Perhaps that's why I rub some the wrong way? Easy to fix that, come and visit, and I will shout the beer.

My "loose" plan is to have a prototype ready to show at the Newcastle Pinfest in November 2014 (in Australia). I am unsure if I can make this timeframe but we are aiming for it. The problem with releasing updates is that each piece of artwork must be approved before public release and this takes a lot of staff time = money to do.

I run a very tight ship and I hate to see waste - I would rather spend that money improving the game.

I do appreciate your interest and that "most" are happy to see another manufacturer even if they might not appreciate or even understand the theme. There are plenty of pinballs from times past that had "mediocre" themes IMO but they are still loved as the works of art that they are.

It really is a very small minority of people who couldn't get out of their own way that have an issue - perhaps it's jelousy?? I don't know or particularly care actually - I have bigger and better things to do with my time.

PS - you're welcome anytime (except during Chinese New Year)

Hi all,

First can I ask that "FatAussieBogan" respect the direct request from a moderator of this site (in fact directly above his post on this page) and refrain from making wild accusations and rumor mongering. "pleb second hand industrial equipment" - really? You just have no idea do you.......if this sort of comment continues this will be my last post here, I am far too busy actually DOING things to answer to such crap! Please tell us all exactly what you are doing to help the pinball community?

Back on track.

There is a great deal going on behind the scenes - it takes a massive amount of time, effort and money to get even the basics of a factory running before any manufacturing can happen. This has taken a large percentage of my time to date. We started from an empty shell and already have a functioning office and R&D department. Production lines will follow shortly. Currently there are 18 full time staff and several consultants on team. These people are both here in the factory and also in other countries and some are well known to you all.

We are still on schedule with this project (and several others) and my goal is still to have a machine ready for display in Australia at Pinfest in October 2014. I have stated this right from day one and hopefully I can still make that target. The finished machines will be shipping mid 2015 as per my licence agreement.

Regarding advance layouts and artwork I have explained this many times in the past and it seems I will have to repeat it here. It takes time and money to get licencing approval to release ANY licenced artwork publically - I do not wish to spend either the time or the money on this so I have instructed my staff to keep on with the design rather than worry about having things for "show and tell".

I have assembled a very talented team and I am choosing to NOT make this public. Certain things are "commercial in confidence" and this is one of them.

Negotiations are under way for distributors in various countries including the USA, terms of which are again, confidential but basically sort out the insurance issues that arose initially.

I hope to have some more solid information in the next month or so which I will post on my website and should include a preliminary layout but realistically it makes no difference if people see advance layouts or not. It will be the finished product that will either interest people - or not.

To those who continue to try and tear me down I say get out there and start your own pinball factory - do better than me and show everyone how great you are. To the vast majority thankyou for your support to date, we have several things in the works that will surprise many.

Cheers,

Mike

Something I 'can' share is the diagram below (preliminary and subject to change).

The 12 volts 3 amp supply will be 100% independent from all other supplies and be rectified (DC but not regulated) and available to hook up mods, LED undercab lighting etc.

I hope other pinball manufacturers follow suit.

PowerTX_Preliminary_.jpg

Thanks for your comments Ken - all Homepin machines at this stage will be full commercial machines and so they will have all of the features that you would normally expect in such a machine including provision for coin mechs and note acceptors.

My mention above is of a feature we are including "from the design stage" that isn't (to my knowlege) found in currently manufactured machines.

A small update:

ITV - (the rights owners of Thunderbirds) have started to release new artwork getting ready for the re-release of Thunderbirds worldwide. This now allows us to move forward with some of the concepts we have been holding back on and complete a few key sections of the project. We have had to wait until this work was finished by them so that Thunderbirds Pinball could move into the next phase.

Although we have completed many parts we couldn't complete the "finish" on them due to updating of the entire colour scheme overall.

A bit of a glimpse at some changes of the colour scheme in the pic below.

newcolours.jpg

....and FatAussieBogan - I have asked you politely, please knock it off or do I need to ask the mods to ban you? Comments about my health and similar personal attacks I simply will not tolerate. It is not called for, is not constructive or in any way relevant to discussion and against forum rules.

FatAussieBogan...I have no problem with you 'dissing' the theme or even my efforts - knock yourself out BUT I draw the line at PERSONAL attacks and insults. Just stop it.

You don't like the theme, you don't like what I am doing, you don't like ME! All of that is fine and perfectly OK - attacking me personally is NOT!

Do you actually understand that? How about you brush up on the forum rules, it has nothing to do with China but everything to do with behaving correctly on a public forum.

For the record my son is 33 years old and has his own graphic design studio in Guangzhou employing over 30 graphic artists. His main business is graphic work for Disney/Marvel - if that isn't good enough for you I don't know what would be?

Your poor attempt at registering a forum name suitable for having a dig at me was observed long ago.

"Mike stick to being the crazy inventor and let someone else from your team handle the pinball public. Wish you all the best with your health"

That is a personal attack. Please stop it.

I have many pinball people that are well known on team - That is commercial in confidence - I have already stated that.

Hi,

It was clearly explained right fom day one that I would be concentrating on getting the factory up and running (from scratch) and that to offer advance information on graphics and artwork would take time and money and slow down the entire project (ask JJP) as approval MUST be sought every time a public release is made. This is no simple or easy thing and I'll bet is one reason JJP were delayed by YEARS! Most probably have little idea of just how much is involved when dealing with a third party owner of IP.

This was made 100% clear to all people including yourself BEFORE you placed a deposit. There were no secrets or suprises here. You requested a refund and you received it the next business day.

In the end I will run my business how I see fit - as does Jack and also Stern. I will do what I believe is required to get things moving and to assemble a quality product in a timely fashion that will add to the pool of pinball machines out there - to be frank I am quite stunned at the negativity and anger towards me and my efforts by a small minority?

Is this jelousy or something else because I can see no valid reason for it. Homepin currently has six titles in various stages of creation and negotiation, we are not a "one hit wonder" so if Thunderbirds isn't your thing perhaps one of the others might be? Worth considering before bad mouthing my efforts. Before people start speculating, no, I cannot release ANY information on any of them just yet.

The factory I am building will be doing 90% of parts manufacture in house on our own equipment wth our own staff - this is no "one man band" operation and is shaping up already to be a substantial operation.

If you like I could post your emails but I refuse to get involved in this and I will not bother posting on Pinside - I now fully understand why JJP and Stern don't post on here............does that help the pinball community?

Wow - why so negative about my efforts to build pinball machines??

In fact, to include the logo on the bracket was a 30 second exercise - a simple 'drag N drop' into the CAD drawing then grab the corner and size it - finished! The sample parts were then laser cut (adding ZERO time to make and ZERO extra cost to the part). We fold all bits like these in-house. The logo added ZERO time to the folding process.

Stamping dies are initially electro-wire cut so the logo may add five minutes to that part of the process?? Hardly worth getting all hot under the collar about it.

FYI there will be many 'hand made' parts in Homepin pinball machines. It makes no difference if the part is stamped in the thousands or hand made one by one. As long as the finished parts do the job as they are designed to do I will be happy with that.

In any case, have a look at almost every manufacturers product, most have some form of name or logo identifying them.

I'm exceptionally proud of my efforts so far and adding my logo to parts I make is a badge I'm happy to wear. It also clearly identifies this assembly as a "Homepin part".

There are plenty of more legitimate things you can pick on me for so how about find something worth bitching about and stop being a nitpicker.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am happy to update the thread with new information but not when I am lambasted by people with no dog in the race and with no interest in the project anyway. Go and build your own pinball factory and see how you go.

PS: the Homepin.com website was down as there has been so many people logging on they used up my bandwidth allocation on the hosting plan I had. I paid more money and upgraded the plan so it is back online now.

I obtained the licence to build Thunderbirds Pinball from ITV about 2.5 years ago and then moved to China and started a pinball factory from scratch. The project was slowed because of the death of my wife of 38 years. It was due to be exhibited at Pinfest (Newcastle Australia) in September last year.

We are now back on track and full steam ahead.

We are striving to have a proto at this years Pinfest.

Homepin is making EVERY single part. We are not buying in anything as that is too complex in China (and for other reasons).

No problem at all - as you are aware I wasn't in a good place during your last China trip.

Happy to catch up and show you first hand what we are up to.

Some plungers being assembled. Also, we only use genuine Loctite in the Homepin factory. The generic Chinese stuff is probably just as good and is 1/3 the price but I trust Loctite (even though it's made in China LOL).

plunger_assembly_(resized).jpg

loctite222_(resized).jpg

First - to the negative nellies - do not take this post the wrong way!!! It IS NOT "USA bashing".

There are many many things that were and are VERY popular outside the USA. For Homepins first machine we wanted a family friendly title that was attractive to our MAIN target market. That market Homepin identified as Australia, New Zealand, UK and Europe in general.

The USA and other countries are seen as a very small market for this title by Homepin.

I am fully aware that Thunderbirds was not that well known in the USA but I can assure you it was (and still is) MASSIVE and VERY well known in our target countries.

The series has recently be revamped and released and was met with good reviews to the point where ITV have put up the money for a further new series.

Thunderbirds is not "for old men" - far from it. It is a family friendly show that has wide appeal.

I could suggest that themes such as WWE and practically all basketball/baseball games have next to no appeal to my target markets although they are probably very popular in the USA.

Different strokes for different folks.

Homepin IS NOT setting up to go head to head with other manufacturers, rather we are seeking out our own unique customers.

Thunderbirds is certainly not a title that will appeal to all but then, what title is? I personally wouldn't allow a GOT or WD anywhere near my home but they have both proven to be very popular - again, different strokes for different folks.

Far from being a "strange" or "odd" choice for a first title I believe Thunderbirds is the PERFECT first title for us.

There are other reasons it was chosen as well but I won't detail them here.

I can confirm that there is very strong interest from a large USA importer to bring Homepin machines to the USA so those who are interested in one will have an opportunity to see/play/buy.

I was going to update this thread with a significant number of pictures BUT it seems Pinside has their own reasons for not allowing [img][/img] tags and therefore my post would have been useless (please take note @robin).

I simply don't have the time to convert/upload or whatever I need to do to make pictures visible here - this is only one site of many worldwide that I update and they are all "normal" and allow links to my website.

If anyone is interested in an update or progress please refer to AA (AussieArcade) or facebook.com/HomepinPinball

Thanks for putting them up. My point is simple. I usually do up an update for the numerous sites I post on and the update includes links to various pictures. I then simply cut-N-paste this update to each site and it's all done.

For reasons I don't know, this site doesn't allow those links to work so it would require that I spend additional time to fit with this sites requirements. I don't do that just the same as I won't do it for other sites that might also require "different" things.

I do have some time to update things but not additional time to pander to an individual sites "strange" requirements.

I hope that clears the air on the matter.

For those interested in following progress you are far better following facebook.com/HomepinPinball rather than on here.

Each to their own, you like it, I don't - simple. I didn't say this site was "doing it wrong" at all - I said it differs from every other site I post on and therefore it is more cumbersome for me to post.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Problem is I usually can only update Facebook from my phone and when I am in Hong Kong (which is often but for a short time). Facebook is blocked in mainland China and, although I subscribe to three paid VPN services, it is still very flaky and often just not practical to try and update pictures to FB from the mainland.

I don't have easy access to a PC whilst in HK so doing multiple updates to different sites simply is too complicated for me with my limited time.

Believe me, this is a tiny problem compared with many other things that just make me shake my head in wonder. The red tape and general obstacles that the Chinese put up really will scare businesses away from here I have no doubt.

If I wasn't so entrenched here in so many ways I would be looking to jump countries that is 100% for certain.

There is no doubt whatsoever that I am the exception rather than the rule!!!

I was simply clarifying things as they are from my perspective which I fully admit is vastly different to almost every other poster here.

Valid question but allow me to clarify.

We are NOT using "EL paper". This is brand new technology and the display is made up from several layers of plastic sheet that are screen printed (by hand) with various special inks. Some of the inks are conductive and used as links between segments, some inks are "luminescent". There is no paper used anywhere in this product.

The printed plastic sheets are then laminated into a finished panel that is quite tough as it is a plastic panel, very flexible and exceptionally resistant to scratching and gouging. The finished "sandwich" panel is about 1/2MM thick.

When driven by an AC signal (which ours are by a controller that we designed and build in house) the expected lifespan with no more than 10% light output degradation is 10,000 hours.

Keep in mind, that specification is with the panel illuminated 100% of the time. As this panel is switched, you can probably push that life out by a factor of three. We have also included a mute switch so the panel can be turned off for certain situations and in certain places that don't want the distraction. Using this occasionally would also extend the lifespan.

That would equate to between 20~30 years of use at three hours a day.

I don't believe life of these panels will be an issue.

Doubt it - but you might find some minor scratches on the edge of the playfield so you will be able to start a thread here complaining about it like it's the end of the world and that Homepin should be burned at the stake - LOL

Some trough parts being checked for final assembly and another random picture I found, I'm unsure what it is about though - LOL

troughparts_(resized).jpg

playingaround_(resized).jpg

Because we have had many delays and holdups that were, for the most part, beyond my control and I want to show what we have achieved to those who are interested.

I have long ago given up trying to please everyone and I'm certainly not going to try to please everyone now. No matter what, when or how I show anything there will still be haters so I just don't give a toss about them. Usually they are people who couldn't be pleased even if a world holiday and a gold bar was included with each machine for $1999 (AUD by the way - LOL).

We will have a partially finished machine and most of our in-house built mechanisms on show. Not all artwork is approved because we are still juggling and fiddling with it to present the FINISHED machine in the best possible state. ALL art is hand drawn NOT photoshopped!!!

Homepin has spent the past 2.5 years (please note this carefully) - BUILDING A PINBALL FACTORY - NOT, building one single type of pinball machine. This was from scratch in an empty building with no staff, machinery or anything.

Those who might have missed a few of the reasons for delay might want to read posts 1278 & 1329 of this thread. To clarify those posts, they are REASONS for holdups and not "excuses" as some scum have said - yes, SCUM! Because that's what people who make those types of comments under those circumstances are. There are only a few thank goodness and you all know who you are.

The design team has "evolved" greatly since we started so it wouldn't be sensible to say much until we have completed the job.

We have a whiteboard here with over 20 potential titles written on it with several highlighted for extra close attention.

I have already revealed on the Pinheadz Podcast that title number two that we build will actually be built and sold as a Hankin pinball machine, the first Hankin pinball for 30 years!

I have a very close friendship and business relationship with David Hankin. I build Hankin video game tables under licence to A.Hankin & Co. with Davids blessing. Davids son, Andrew will very likely remain on board with Homepin for this project.

Yes, the machine in the picture is loaded at the back of a container of Hankin cocktail tables headed for Australia. It is a very basic cabinet that we will use to showcase what we have been doing for the past two years in the Homepin factory. MAINLY we have been designing and making every single part for our "standard" mechanisms so we will be showing these to anyone who is interested.

Now that we have essentially finished all of this design work on our parts and mechanisms we can get on in earnest with individual pinball design. "Horse & cart" - "Chicken & egg" come to mind......

As I have said numerous times we ARE NOT buying in one single part from pinball suppliers, we are making every part ourselves and are very close to the end of this very complex and tiring road. I have explained the reasons for this several times also.

We are in discussions with a very large distributor for the USA market. This distributor has already purchased a quantity of our licenced Hankin video tables and some upright arcade machines. Things are not finalised and we don't even have an RRP for ANY market yet as I have NO IDEA what the finished cost will be at this stage - it is just too early and too complicated to work out just yet.

Our goal and sole aim at Homepin is to get the machines finished and running - I don't like paperwork or accounting so that comes LAST as far as I am concerned! LOL.

We are a small startup company with limited resources. Many things needed to be prioritised.

Sadly it is unlikely that TAG will be able to do much in this area as our startup costs have been - well, frightening! - BUT we are well aware that the market is crying out for a lower cost product and it is very much in the pipeline.

Once the first machine is rolling down the line it will be very much a case of "watch this space".

Yes, we modeled ours after them although, sadly, no parts are the same. The DE ones were made by a company called WICO.

Gary & I discussed these when he visited the Homepin factory.

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Not currently

That is our plan. Also, all wires connect via a 10P automotive connector mounted on a bracket screwed to the assembly.

Please note that, while we are showing some of our progress for the Thunderbirds pinball machine, our PRIMARY purpose at Pinfest is to showcase and highlight what we have been doing to build the factory first and then the things we have designed and made in the factory over the past two years.

We also have a few exhibits for those interested that show what problems we have had getting to this point and exactly the sort of things that have gone wrong for us and what we have done (and are doing) to overcome these issues.

The part built "machine" we will be showing is nowhere near a finished machine nor is it in any way what the final product will look like - merely to show what our ideas are and the progress we have made in designing and making EVERY single part from scratch.

It is not in our current plan to offer premium or LE versions of any machine we make. We certainly do have solid plans that we hope will come to fruition this coming year for some interesting titles that we will be targeting at the commercial operator to enable them to justify putting these machines on site once more.

Several large operators have told me clearly that the ROI simply isn't there on a US$5K pinball machine - we intend to address that issue.

Homepin is finally coming out the end of a very complex and very expensive time and this coming year will most certainly be one where the chickens will come home to roost for us.

Oh - and there will be several of these large signs prominently displayed in the closed off area where the advance prototype will be shown.

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The USA (along with numerous other countries) NEVER WAS, and still is not, our intended market for this, our first game.

We chose the theme carefully to target our (initial) desired market to maximize interest in our first machine. The main thinking at the time was to avoid clashing with Stern & JJP and to capitalise on markets that they were not showing too much interest in.

With that said, there has been quite an amazing interest in Thunderbirds and we have all but struck a deal with a large USA importer for distribution. This was done primarily for upcoming games NOT TAG, but the interest seems to be solid enough that I'm confident there will be TAG machines available in the USA after Homepin commitments to our (mostly) Australian pre-buyers has been filled.

As some already know, Homepin now has sellers of our replacement PCB's in the USA thus eliminating the main reason for my reluctance to sell overseas, Paypus! They still remain one of the all time great shifty companies of the world. Still assisting people to steal all these years later. Congratulations to them.

Some pics I found of the initial trough mechs coming together.

We have tweaked the design and now have this mech in production:

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Very early pics of our pop bumper assembly showing two of the three lamp circuits built in.

One standard "up" facing, one white playfield illumination "down" facing and (not shown illuminated in the pic) an up facing flash.

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They sure are so imagine what we have achieved in that past four months........

Not at all, I signed the lease on the factory in December 2013 and we were operational in that factory by February 2015. All will be displayed with some excellent pictures of the factory progress at Pinfest next weekend for those interested.

You can't just "open a factory" and "start a business" overnight.

You might be referring to the date when Homepin announced it would build Thunderbirds pinball but that date is not even close to the actual "start on work towards the pinball" date.

Not really as that was "testing the water" to see what interest there was out there. Work didn't start in earnest on the machine PARTS until we had proper facilities and the right staff to do so and that was quite some time after the initial announcement.

When I see your efforts at building a pinball factory I might take a small bit of notice of you - until then your just another tryhard.

No as that would be "you are". Mine is correct - "the poster in post # 1453 is YOUR mate" LOL

Excellent - thanks for that....

Well I guess that's for those people to decide isn't it now.

I have said before I will stop contributing to this thread if posts are not constructive or enquiring - seems we have reached that point again.

No wonder so many flee this site, I'm done for a while!!!

Those interested can follow Homepin progress on FB at

Facebook.com/HomepinPinball

If I lose anything or not should be of no concern to you.

Quite simply it isn't your business. I have been in contact with all pre-purchasers (the ONLY ones who have a "right" to ask questions about delivery) and they are all comfortable with our progress. I also met about 10 of them personally at Pinfest and presented them with "something" and EVERY one of them I met was VERY happy.

Your constant stirring does nothing to positively contribute to, well, anything really, so how about you just give it a rest.

Pinsanity is most unlikely to ever be "a customer" of Homepin and to be frank, I don't want him as one.

I am looking after those who had faith in my project right from the start and THEY are all happy - that is all that matters to me at the moment.

Comments from stirrers and keyboard warriors are of no value to my project and of no help to those waiting for completion. If they were I would encourage them.

I speak it as I see it. If it rubs you the wrong way then it seems you are the one with the thin skin.

I will, or will not comment as I see fit on any "public forum" about Homepin progress and projects particularly when casual observers such as yourself are doing their best to stir trouble.

Thanks for bumping the thread in any case and keeping Homepin in the public mind.

I must be thick because I completely fail to see how I am in any way "acting like a dick" - maybe it's an American thing? I have no idea what you are on about.

All I am saying is that EVERY ONE of my pre-order customers is happy and the ONLY negative comments about Homepin progress are coming from a casual observer or two who have no horse in the race therefore why should they give a hoot?

I have discussed this with several pre-order customers and the ones I have spoken to are quite satisfied about every aspect of Homepin progress including designers, past and present.

I am currently waiting for a flight but when I arrive home I will post pictures and more information about Pinfest and what we "revealed" there last weekend.

Homepin has been a major sponsor of Pinfest Newcastle every year since its inception (this year being the 5th).

This year Homepin donated a new Hankin arcade table to be used as a door prize and also decided to exhibit at the event MAINLY to show people what we have been doing to establish our pinball factory. I have said dozens of times we WERE NOT showing ANY pinball machine at this event and that was NEVER our intention.

I had two large posters printed for Pinfest showing our activity and progress. We are in the unique position of having to manufacture (or have made for us) every single part, and there are lots of separate parts in a pinball machine. I have detailed the reasons previously AND my comments have been supported by several people who deal with China and are well aware of this situation.

The reason I couldn't allow any pictures was simple. The pinball cabinet we displayed (in a separate area to the main event) was because some of the artwork was not, and never will be approved. It was included simply to make the machine LOOK whole. We mocked up a TAG to show interested people some of the ideas we are implementing in this pinball. We had moving trees, moving ramp, sliding pool with T1 launching from the pool and the pop bumper cluster working to show our lighting in one of our cabinets which also showed our attention to details with chamfered cabinet edges, improved side rails, sacrificial cabinet slide timbers, illumunated buttons and many other small details.

The first wall poster showed a timeline of sorts from signing for a factory to production of goods. This site doesn't allow me to insert pictures and caption them (as far as I am aware) so I will have to make several posts to ensure my comments are relevant and clear.

This is the top of the first poster and shows what Homepin took over after signing the lease in January 2014 - rubble all over the floor and nothing inside, not a single power point or even wiring for power points.

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The middle section of poster one shows progress after only a few months:

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The bottom section of poster one details the granting of Homepins business licensee in China as a WOFE (Wholly Owned Foreign Enterprise):

Of note here is that you can't open a bank account, pay staff insurances and most other things until this licence is granted.

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The second wall poster shows details of progress in both the factory and with pinball parts being designed and manufactured both in-house and supplied by outside vendors to our design specifications. Note that the drawings are just a few that represent some of the background work involved simply to give people looking some insight into how much work we have been doing:

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It was then that my wife of 40 years, Karen, passed away. It's still painful for me, 14 months later to even type this. Not long after that our programmer also passed away in the dormitory (supplied by Homepin). These two events strained me to the limit both emotionally and financially. I have explained these events in detail elsewhere.

The bottom line is this caused a halt to pinball parts development for about seven months and all of our work on the software was lost completely (it's a Chinese thing and explained in depth elsewhere). We had to go back to square one with the software development and are currently progressing that with an Australian company.

I didn't take any still pics of the cabinet we displayed at Pinfest but here are a few screen grabs from a video I did take. They show our side rails and illuminated buttons, the PB assemblies and dropping trees also the sliding pool. These things were all very much mocked up and were simply meant to be representative of our thoughts for TAG.

Also we had a static display on a table of most of our mechanisms for people to play with. L&R flipper assemblies, Pop Bumper assembly, Target (we make every part), drop target assembly (not shown in the picture below), Many plastic parts including coil formers of various sizes, Leg plates and cabinet protectors, Knocker assembly, Plunger plate and assembly, Kicker Assembly, Trough assembly and many other small bits and pieces.

I also brought along a leg to demonstrate some of the issues we have had. The leg is very well made and pressed/folded BUT when the vendor welded the captive nut to the bottom they welded it at an angle. I now have 450 finished legs that can't be used. This sort of issue we deal with practically on a daily basis.

There are currently about eight plastic parts in the manufacturing phase, moulds take several months to make and test then adjust. These things all take LOTS of time and money. They cannot be done overnight.

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I think that with ALL of the circumstances and issues I have faced considered, what Homepin has managed to achieve in 2.5 years is still a pretty good effort.

Once all of our "bread & butter" mechanisms are completed we will be in a position to move forward with TAG initially but very soon after other titles that are in the early planning stages right now.

The number of pre-order customers we have for TAG is very very small and really not of much concern in the bigger picture. They have all been supportive of me personally and Homepin generally. One reason for the small number of pre-orders is that at the exact same time I called for expressions of interest, Bumper Action Amusements in Melbourne was melting down and that resulted in the Australian WOZ fiasco.

This caused many potential TAG buyers to become gun shy and I was told as much in many emails, PM's and face to face at pinball events. Karen and I decided to press on with this venture regardless.

I haven't given up and will not let anyone down. It irks me when a few negative Nellie's have a dig at me but they are not in my shoes and have no idea what the past couple of years has been like. We are coming to the end of our development phase and this coming year should be a big one for Homepin. Thanks to the majority who support me and my efforts, the messages are appreciated greatly.

Also, I have no problem selling to the USA, Samoa or Timbuktu - those continuing to push this barrow please give it up, it isn't true and we are in solid negotiations with several distributors in the USA, Canada and other major markets. We also intend to shake the tree with our quality and pricing but I'm not in a position to discuss that just now.

This is a picture I found on Karen's computer:

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I also posted the above overview of Pinfest Newcastle on the Australian site Aussie Arcade and there have been a few valid comments and questions which I will copy here for the info of those interested:

********************************

(1)

(Q)
Mike,

When you receive parts from a supplier that are not to spec, what do you do? The badly welded legs, for example. Do you lose all that money and effort for nothing or are there avenues for recourse?

(A)
It depends on exactly who that supplier is and what relationship we have with them. In the case of the legs I will try to "repair" them by drilling out the nuts, using a rivnut or similar and re-coating or plating them. If that isn't 100% satisfactory I will sell them to the scrap man who calls once a week.

The same supplier has also been working on the lockdown bar for more than two years now and I have given up on them. AU$10K down the drain for two dies and countless samples that just don't make the grade. I did show a few people the sample one fitted to the cabinet at Pinfest and what my issues are with it.

So in this case we are on our own with the legs now as well. I have the dies back to make the legs and I am very pleased with them (apart from the nut welding issue) so we will be able to find another place to stamp them.

Similar problem with one of the plastic mould places we deal with and the flipper actuator buttons. They made the taper on the center part the wrong way so that when you pushed the button in - it jammed! In this case we have a strong, ongoing relationship with this place and they admitted fault, fixed the moulds, and made 5K new buttons at their own expense.

Problem has been that these types of issues, and there are many of them, cause time delays and usually extra effort and expense that we just don't want or need.

****************

(2)
(Q)
Will schematics and manuals be available for download once a Homepin machine becomes available? I think the reason why Gottlieb machines are least desirable of the DMD era amongst collectors is purely because of the lack of technical information freely available. It's one of the main reasons why I don't bother with them even though they are engineered well.

(A)
I am a great believer in supplying schematics. They will certainly be downloadable but my aim is to have printed copies, on large sheets like A3 or maybe bigger, available. We will have to see what we can achieve.

***************

(the following two are in reply to an original comment that suggested open sourcing the software)

(3)
(Q)
The thing is that pinball software is so so so important. I don't believe that it's really a community thing. It makes or breaks a pinball. Art important. Shot geometry important.... But without a genius behind software it all falls apart.

I could be wrong as it's never been done before

(A)
I am VERY comfortable with the Brisbane based company we are working with now. They have lifetimes of experience with embedded controller programming in industrial environments as well as specific pinball experience going back to pre-electronic days.

****************

(4)
(Q)
Probably cannot be done within the licence
You've seen how much the Thunderbird people control the images from the show, they would be just as concerned about the sounds from the show

(A)
Pete, you make a very valid point. The licence owners are particularly "on the lookout" for situations where (as dumb examples) a licensee might frame Lady Penelope as a prostitute for example or the Tracy family as evil villains set on taking over the world.

That is their main concern along with accurate representations of likeness etc.

There are quite a few comments on Aussie Arcade from people who attended Pinfest and most spoke to myself or Sid at the show.

Rather than me be accused of "selectively" posting them here, those interested could look at the remarks for themselves here:

http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/59669-TAG-Thunderbirds-Pinball-Parts-updates-ONLY/page92

I have a better idea - just don't bother coming back to this thread if my efforts don't please you, problem solved!

EVERY idea is on the table. We will make what people want to buy and, hopefully, at a price point they are comfortable with.

One thing is for certain, we will never compromise on quality or safety of any Homepin product. That has already been well proven with our Hankin cocktail tables over the past two years.

Our board set is coming along nicely and the software with it.

Any EM project would certainly only come after we have released several "microcontrolled" machines.

Homepin will deal with that aspect when the time is right - that time is not right now.

Well call me "unprofessional" and see how much I (don't) give a toss about what you believe I should be doing.

EDIT - thanks again for bumping the thread

.....And here is problem number one! I made it abundantly clear dozens of times on every forum I participate in that we WOULD NOT BE DISPLAYING A THUNDERBIRDS PINBALL MACHINE or ANY pinball machine for that matter, at Pinfest.

We displayed and showcased our efforts to build a factory and pinball mechanisms and that is ALL we were showing.

I'm at a loss why some can't grasp that???

Selective quoting again. Try this then (my words from an earlier post in this thread):

"This is not a finished machine but it will showcase (along with our display of completed mechanisms) what we have been up to in the factory. Some of the artwork is not yet approved (and will almost certainly change anyway before the final version is built) so it will certainly be in a "no-cameras" area but available for anyone to see."

Anyway, some of us have constructive work to do rather than pointless discussion here.......

Some pics of final parts being assembled. Getting closer by the day!!!

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I think he means "shiz" - but he is a KIWI so we will have to forgive him

Sadly they call them "shrimp" here in China as well - it's the American influence but I'm doing my best to correct the Chinese, one by one and ensure they know that they are called PRAWNS - LOL

I've never claimed for a second that Homepin pinball machines (or our licenced Hankin video tables) would be or are "Made in Australia".

What I have said (and it is 100% true and correct) is that all of our products are designed in Australia, by Australians who know and understand pinball machines. All of our artwork and programming is also done in Australia, by Australians (although previously some software was being done by our Chinese guy who passed away - that work was all lost and we won't/can't be using a single line of his code).

Homepin is also a 100% Australian owned family business.

If people buying other brands of machines think they are "Made in the USA" they have their heads seriously stuck in the sand. Sure they are assembled in the USA but I will bet 60% or more of the parts are made outside the USA.

The replacement coils, flipper mechs, rubbers, LEDs that most pinball parts companies sell - where do people think these ALL come from?? China, that's where. The same place as EVERY laptop computer, mobile phone (cell), TV set, toaster and practically every other consumer item these days.

I am all for being patriotic but common business sense says that many things would simply not be viable to manufacture if it had to be 100% made in Australia (or the USA) including all parts and labour. Heck, I can't even buy 80% of the parts we need to make a pinball machine in Australia, for ANY price.

Some things here in China are certainly cheap and nasty there is no denying that. That's why Homepin is 100% owned, run and supervised on a daily basis by Australians who live here in Shenzhen.

Back to work for me..........

This little symbol in our office at the Homepin factory reminds all staff (Australians and Chinese) that we are in this together and that we are moving forward with a common goal regardless of race.

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I forgot to add that Homepin is also a 100% "Wholly Owned Foreign Enterprise" in China. Known here as a WOFE.

This is reasonably rare as most foreign owned businesses operating in China have a Chinese partner (many times a silent partner and westeners dealing with the business wouldn't even know this).

A WOFE has actually only been legal and possible for the last 6 years or so here in China.

So Homepin (operating in China as "Shenzhen City, Arcade Game Science & Technology Company Limited") is also 100% owned by an Australian as is "Homepin Limited (HK)" a 100% Australian owned foreign business with it's registered office in Hong Kong.

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I am an Australian resident who works overseas. I am still an Australian resident just the same as "flyin-flyout" mining workers from PNG or anywhere else.

I own and actively trade under two business names in Australia and own others that are currently dormant.

I submit a regular BAS statement in Australia and a tax return in Australia, China and Hong Kong.

The interesting thing about pricing is that we are still very close to our original plan, price wise. Yes, our costs have gone up over the past two years just like every factory in China but not to the extent of the price rises for NIB pinball machines I have seen recently.

We probably have endured price increases averaging around 10% across the board with wages and rent certainly going up every year (I am just signing a lease renewal now that includes a 15% increase). Other factors for Homepin have been (usually) "single events" such as the costs associated with a staff member dying, being tricked or cheated by suppliers (another just this week in fact) and probably one of the worst has been the fall of the AUD against the Chinese RMB.

That change alone has cost us in excess of AU$200K in the past couple of years. No point whinging about it. We are moving ever closer to the finish line and I firmly believe this coming year will be a major one for Homepin.

We are a new startup - from scratch. There are simply far too many loose ends just now for me to put a date on it and things such as staff leaving (2 this week), staff asking for 6 weeks off (one this week) and typhoons closing the factory (today) as well as 2000 other day to day challanges make predicting an exact release date impossible.

We are striving for shipping around March - we will see how that pans out.

The mould for our drop targets arrived this morning so we put it through its paces and spat out a few dozen parts to play with and confirm they work as we expect.

Any small tweaks can then be done to the mould before we do a run of drop target plastics.

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Thanks for the feedback. We just moulded these test pieces with the plastic that was already loaded in the machine. Haven't given a lot of thought to the final colours or material as yet.

Our main job with them at the moment is making sure they fit and work correctly then we will concentrate on the materials.

We are playing with the fit of the assembly in a test playfield this afternoon and want to make certain all the heights and clearances are correct as well as the opto "vane" is in the right place before we go much further with them.

That's exactly what we are testing for now. We are experimenting with different types and mixes of plastic to hopefully find the best one for this job.

I agree with you 100% but it ain't gonna happen with pinball.

Wayne is right - no import duty on pinballs. There is also some break on arcade but I'm not so certain about exactly what it is. There is a difference between machines fitted with coin mechs and those without?

Actually, they might both be exempt now that I think about it? I have the files here but I couldn't be bothered to look them up. I do know that arcade has to be specified separately "coin or token operated and NOT coin or token operated".

Wayne is also correct that Hankin lost money making pinballs. David told me that they lost over 1MAUD and that was when that actually was serious money! He told me it took them many years to pay it back and also said I was completely mad (I already knew that bit).