***NEW*** PIN STADIUM Pinball LED lights Mod Announcement!!!

Let me just chime in that Scott was able to answer all of my questions on the phone as I was ordering from him, while apparently at the same time without skipping a beat in conversation, posting his last couple replies on here. His customer service really is top notch. Ordered 2 Orion's Belt sets from him to start. Very excited to see this set up over here, particularly since I had a couple discussions of this flasher idea a few months ago. (Only I didn't know he was actually working on this at the time!)

I was thinking about this briefly a few months ago. Seemed too dangerous a thing to be even experimenting with as it seems it could cause issues with current draw and appropriate resistances across LEDs. I would not recommend bridging different LED circuits with the trigger wires. To be safe I think each trigger point on a game would need its own pinstadium-style trigger circuit.

This is more the idea I was thinking of as a "next level" sort of thing - the ability to arrange pinstadium flashers or GI in "Zones". I think some of todays games are starting to make a more theatrical approach to lighting. Pinstadium products could not reasonably tie into that without some sort of hooks into the actual pinball code, so Zoning (and/or more advanced-designed/scripted sequences on trigger) may be the next closest thing.

I know I mentioned part of this to you earlier Scott, perhaps something to chew on..

I respectfully must concur that these features (particularly invisishields-no comparison yet for diffuser effect) should be somehow included standard on all Pinstadium units, whether included separately or as a redesign of the original mount. This does a lot for the look and feel of the Pinstadium effect (always looks good without harsh glare shining straight at you from the side) and will make every installation conform to the high Pinstadium standard.

So I had an interesting experience, possibly similar in nature, but with a different (completely unrelated? or slightly related?) cause. I have the pinstadium on my green WoZ. The WoZ cabinet power switch was turned off, and we had a power outage. Because of the reported power sensitivity of the WoZ, it happens to be hooked up to a UPS, which is capable of powering the entire machine for a few minutes, so that it won't ever experience sudden power fluctuations. The UPS kicked in instantly of course, and while the cabinet was still switched off, the lights (UV if I remember right?) started this very dim flickering glow. I probably would not have noticed if it wasn't so dark at the time. When I noticed this I thought "uh-oh, wonder what thats all about" and turned off the UPS. seems to work fine, but there was definitely some kind of sensitivity to something going on. Perhaps it is this sensitivity that is causing this other effect as well.

I think my example may be from the not-quite-sine-wave generated by the UPS feeding to the pinstadium which was of course plugged in at the time

So uhh, how are those Orion's Belt orders coming along?
No, I'm not eagerly checking my mailbox every day. You must have me confused with someone else

Unfortunately I have to agree. I can't make heads or tails of this diagram - no idea what I am looking at. Its a clip somewhere stuck to a corner of a piece of wood somewhere? A simple real-world picture would be much more helpful to see the context. This is why I still have not used any of my clip mounts, for any of the Pinstadiums I have. I have no idea where the best place is to use them.

I'll guess you added 6 spots, but i count 3 factory spots on mine. not 2.

oops, 7, plus 3 factory.

any recommendations on flasher locations for Stern Star Trek?
Already have the UV Stadium flashers on the recommended Vengeance flasher.

Also I noticed that there is a row of pins sticking out of the black rubber/plastic wrap on the controller boards.. should those be covered?

Alright, feedback. I love your work, but there are a couple things majorly bugging me. There really needs to be a revision to this.

First, short but Sweet, the Good. Great rather. Spectacular even. Install went smoothly. The effects are really, really nice, particularly when you tap into the right circuits/flashers to compliment the game. Its really fantastic, and I can't wait to adjust it a bit more (Circuits/color choices) to find just the perfect combination.

For reference, right now my first setup on Star Trek Premium is: The spinner flasher is set blue, the pops flasher white, and the two back ramp strobes are Red and Yellow to match.

There are some issues however, so hang tight, here we go.
I am overly frustrated with the after-install for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as I am playing, I am realizing that I may want to switch one of the circuits. That means taking off the Stadium and Flasher strips -easy enough, they are on magnets. But the cable management is frustrating. Its really not easy to get them lined up just the right length, and the cable clips just don't seem to work for me. Even if they manage to stick right on the back (they keep falling off, despite my best efforts to clean the spot and attach them properly), I can't lift the playfield without taking them out or else they will simply pull the clips right off or threaten to bend the cables at the light connectors.. lifting the playfield means the backboard moves forwards, and then tilts down, pulling on the light strips if the cables are in the clips... Basically I can't find any "good" way to do this using the clips. lowering the playfield is also a challenge because I have to lower it before I can reattach the light strips to the magnets. The cable fit in back is really, really tight on this machine - so once the playfield is lowered, the cables are pretty much wedged in the back - and there is no give, no slack, to be able to adjust a little more or a little less cable once the playfield is down. It was difficult but manageable with the stadium lights, and next to impossible with a second set of ribbon cables that want to do their own thing.

The next thing that bugs me, is the "not-so-secret buttons" that are required for setup and changing colors- they are on the controller board - which is under the playfield, in back(!). So I can't adjust any colors without - you guessed it, doing all the above anyway. This is in no way easy to manage.

This just drives me batty. Its way too difficult to change the assigned colors. Its unreasonably difficult to even lift and lower the playfield with the extra mucking about with the cables and light strips.

However I can think of two simple changes that would fix all of this, yet its not so simple to do after the build. So, here is a good 85% of the solution (really minus only a couple small details) for your next round.

1- put in quick-disconnect plugs in the ribbon cable just shortly before the light strips. This way a user can simply unplug them right there above the playfield before removing the light strips. Now the ribbon cable could be properly mounted somehow in a semi-permanent way that holds their position in back of the backboard and up and over onto the playfield.

2- the buttons... makes no sense to have to open everything up to get to under the back of the playfield for this. Again a plug to the board, another cable of sorts from that to be run along the inside side of the cabinet up to the front in the coin door area where the "remote" buttons are located. Want to change colors? no problem - open the coin door only, and push the button. no need to take off glass, no need to take off lights, no need to lift the playfield, then deal with the buttons while its all up and open, and then have to try to put it all back nice.

I do have a couple more comments/questions/thoughts for improvement, but I'll save that for the moment. I just needed to get this out there (and off my chest), as I'm overly frustrated still from how difficult this is to adjust after install, not to mention how much more difficult the install has made the game to simply open up to maintain. Maybe tomorrow.

Overall - Visually, this addition is a spectacular improvement. It really is. Its really just the implementation that needs some attention. Happy to be a tester for you too if you'd like. You may find some of my ideas of interest as well

Hey Scott, sorry its kindof late now, maybe we can connect tomorrow over this, i dont want to be bothering you this late. Heres some clarification though for whenever you happen to check next.

Clamps: I have not used them before now. I tried using the ones that came with the Orions Belt for both of them together. one on each side. They came off the first time because the fit in back is really tight on this machine, and they rub against something else (other cables?) in back when the playfield is raised or lowered. they simply rubbed right off, and I found them loose around the cables at the bottom of the cabinet. I managed to stick them back on the first time, but then as I was saying, there is another issue about them holding the cables in place. I understand you to say that it is a good thing as it holds them approximately the right distance from the backboard while one opens it up, raising the playfield, and lowering it back and mounting the strips again on the magnets. This would be a good idea if the light strips actually were kept with the playfield when raised. The problem is they can not sit on top of the playfield while the playfield is lifted. What is left to do with the lightstrips while one raises the playfield (for example, to get at the buttons to set or adjust colors)? If I lay the lightstrips to the sides of the machine, or let them hang down or whatever, while they are clipped to the backboard, now I have the problem that moving/raising/lowering the playfield pulls on the ribbon cables. If they are laying to the side, they won't be after long. If they are dangling down the sides, they get pulled up until the end of the cable where the light strips begin, and it will pull tighter until presumably the ribbon cables will break off the lightstrips. This is a problem that effectively makes leaving the cables in any sort of cable management clips or whatever, an impossible scenario- as long as the lightstrips are attached to the cable. This is why it would seem imperative to be able to disconnect the light strips from the cable. There really is no other way around it. Believe me I tried -but I almost broke the light strips on both the pinstadium and the belt trying to use clips while raising and lowering the playfield. No this is not an issue of distance from the power - it is simply what happens if the ribbon cable is held to a fixed point on the backboard while one attempts to raise or lower the playfield.

As for a set-and-forget with the buttons.. I just don't see this happening. Even if I do have all the triggers placed where they will forever remain, it will no doubt take several or more adjustments to get the colors right. Everyone will also have their own thoughts/ideas/desires for color - that is what the buttons are for, right? But its buried in the back, underneath everything, and every time I have to open it up and raise the playfield now, aside from the extra effort it now takes with multiple strips and the problem with the clips, I feel like I am risking cables and lights every time I do this. what could/should be a simple adjustment is made just about as difficult as could possibly be with this method. Instead of soldering these buttons on the main board, there should just be a little connector for a cable that runs to the front by the coin box with the buttons on the end. user configuration should never be buried in the most difficult place to get to.

Hi Scott,

I need to try to make extension cables for these buttons. I'm afraid this just isn't working for me. Opening everything all the way just to tune something and have to put it all back to check the results each time is just too much. Can you suggest a good way to do this? Do the buttons have small solder joints I can solder on to? would it be best to unsolder the buttons and tap into where they were? I have not yet unwrapped any of the plastic shielding around the board. My first install sits unchanged, and my second kit remains in the shipping tube at the moment because of all of this. ugh.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can give on doing this.

Hi Scott, Thanks for the thought, I'd love for that to work but i'm afraid it is not the same leaving things open and just trying to guess how it will be. The game needs to be tested in play and not just with the flasher tests. Here is why:

-The flashers often fire in different sequences with particular timing. There is no way to emulate this with flasher tests.
-There are many cases, even in sequence, of multiple flashers timed together as well. It is again not possible to see this with a flasher test, nor can one see the orion "conflict resolution" in the sequence with any test menus.
-There are instances of flashers firing with GI + Pinstadium On, as well as GI+Pinstadium off. these look different as well and can not be replicated with any test menu. Additionally there are instances of Orion flashers combining with Pinstadium Flashers. This is also not possible to "test" without actually being in play.
-The above three describe why this is not possible, but a third reason here that it not desirable anyhow even if this were possible - the playfield simply does not look the same when you have the playfield propped up and the lights on top of its, as it does in a dimly lit room with the lights properly mounted in its cabinet.

Again, in short, the only way to really see how it is going to look and act is to have the machine all together, and play a test game.
I'm afraid the only way to really solve these things is for me to make some sort of "button extension". Can you give me any input on the best way I might do this before I open up the controller board wrapper?
Many thanks!

Any idea what triggers are being used here?

Of my current 5 games, WoZ is also for me the one I think that these lights do the least for (aside from the dim GI enhancement I have it set for that is). I agree about the UV flashing on the witch too, and I remember feeling a bit wary on the UV vs. Red flasher decision as well. Perhaps that would have been the wiser choice, hard to say without being able to see the red however. It is what it is. I do absolutely rave over the stadium lights on my other 4 machines though. Not only for the good GI, but the UV flashers are a great compliment on all of them as well.

When you mentioned removing the magnets, it occurred to me that in my experience, many "stick on" adhesives do loosen a bit with some heat. I wonder if some gentle warming with a hairdryer might help here. Just a thought..

Thanks, yeah I'm definitely interested to know what you used. I just threw mine in witt:
Red- Back left Red Strobe
Yellow- Back center/right Yellow Strobe
White- Pops White Strobe
Blue- Spinner Blue Strobe

It's interesting seeing your video how different of an effect yours creates. I do like mine a lot, but I have to wonder if I could make it even nicer. I am just so hesitant to open it up right now for any reason with all the trouble I have unmounting/opening/closing/remounting properly/safely.

Does anyone have any thoughts for Orions Belt triggers on either Hobbit or MMr ?

Thanks!

Thanks Scott,

Was this just two of the 4 channels then? The other two somewhere else? or..?

Any thoughts/ideas/feedback from anyone for a MMr ?

Whoops! I misread that.. ignore this post. I need to read better. haha

Hey Scott,
Just wanted to say the pinstadium+UV is absolutely perfect on my MBrLE. I was a bit worried at first about drowning out the LE RGB lighting, but no it looks perfect. The tap location for the GI is perfect. and the UV on the Frank flashers... Brilliant! They are the perfect color and respond absolutely on cue to the "sparking" electricity, lighting the entire playfield in just the right way.. the flashes, the electric pulsing... my goodness you'd think this setup was made specifically for MBR alone!

I couldn't help but make a post about it on the MBr owners thread.. hopefully i won't get flamed for it too bad over there (i think there was a bit of repeat pinstadium posting there a while back?) but my goodness its just perfect. I do hope though it will draw more attention and more will appreciate it. Win/Win all around.
Hope you've had a chance to experience it!
Cheers!

I agree, it is not cheap. However if I may offer my 2 cents on this, I believe the results will be on par with what you will get for a color DMD, only for the playfield instead.
For my Star Trek Premium, I did indeed spring for the Color DMD. And the Pinstadium. And Orions Belt.
There is no way I could describe for you the intensity of the difference all around from Playfield to DMD, it is an overall incredible experience. In retrospect if all these were removed, I would feel absolutely compelled to add all three again.

Hey Scott, I have a WoZ question for you-

If you remember I have the "green" WoZ that seemed to not work with the GI trigger (so its permanently on), and you included a special connector attached to the flasher trigger so it just plugs right in. The effect is the bright flashing on the witch going up or down.

I seem to recall there is a different setup to allow for a dimmer glow instead.. I was thinking that might be preferable. Can you tell me (or point me to the correct post or info) how to switch it to try that out instead?

Thanks!

Thanks Scott! Always impressed by the speed of your replies!

Hey Scott, do you by chance have any good leads on where to tap in (both stadium, and belt) on the Black Knight LE ?

Thanks Scott. Can you tell me does the Black knight sword of rage LE need a service port adapter or anything else for the fusions? do the fusions have built in shields or something as well?
what do i need?

Hey Scott, are there *recommended* locations for fusion connections on BKSOR LE yet? (GI, UV, flashers?)
Thanks!

Sounds really neat, I'll look for those! What about the best location to tap in for:
1- GI?
2- UV Flashers?

Thanks!

My AMFRLE with mirror blades look great with the pinstadium lights.

Hey Scott, I'm trying to get this part set up now, and I wanted to check something before I do this- It appears the RGB panels have 4 wires coming from them. there is Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow. I assume that likely for each light, there is a power lead (R/G/B wires) and that they then share a common ground lead (Yellow?) This would imply to me that the taps for Red channel for example would be Red and Yellow wires, the taps for the Blue channel would be the Blue and (the same)Yellow wire, and the taps for the Green channel would be the Green and (the same)Yellow wire?
BUT- I seem to recall you saying before that if you directly connected/shorted the flasher tapping cables on a channel, it could blow out the pinstadium circuit board (?). If so, Then it sounds to me like using a common ground for several flashers could be risky? I'm a bit confused on this and wanted to get some clarification before I finish the install.

Thanks!

I am following this MMr OB implementation with great interest.. I still have an OB in its tube, trying to figure out what game to put it on.. MMr, AFMr, MBr, or Hobbit..

Scott, As much as I enjoy the lights, I do also enjoy the feature (great thought, by the way) to turn OFF the PS or OB at times. Its bugging me greatly however that there seems to be no way to turn off the PS Flasher channel? (would also be nice to turn down the flash as well).
Is this something that could be done in the future? or even some kind of update for the existing hardware?

Also, one more thing.. Love the OB enhancements, but one more thing that is really bugging me about it that BKSOR really brings to light - the race condition that seems to exist in determining behavior for multiple simultaneous flashers. I suppose it could be okay for some things, but it would be even cooler if it could be specified one of three behaviors:
1-standard race condition
2-predetermined order of precidence
3-RGB color mix by formula (or even "virtual preset", if formula is too difficult). Perhaps some user tweaking could be done here?

Sorry Scott, I guess what I was trying to say was not coming across.. Here it is, step by step.

The Pinstadium lighting has 2 channels - the GI, and the Flash (UV).
The GI turns on when the GI trigger gets activated from the leads, and turns off when the trigger disappears.
The UV turns on when the UV trigger gets activated from its own leads, and turns off when the trigger disappears.

The Pinstadium App allows the Pinstadium to be turned on and off, like a master switch - or at least it should. It does for the GI channel, but not the UV Flashers. I am suggesting that it also turn off the UV channel as well as the GI. It is not very useful as a master on/off when the UV stays active.

So the part that is making no sense to me with this here, is that in BKSOR we have a clear breakdown of RGB in the upper play field, as the Red Green and Blue are entirely separate channels for the flashers. If more than one fires at a time, there appears to be no logic in which OB flasher is actually triggered. This is shown in good example by when BKSOR upper playfield flashes white (all three flashers, Red/Green/Blue at once). There appears to be no rules that determine which OB flasher channel activates in this condition, and the result appears to be random. 1/3 of the time it will flash red, 1/3 of the time it will flash green, and 1/3 of the time it will flash blue.

I do understand, but this is not the issue I am facing. It is that I can not simply "turn it all off" other than disconnecting or unplugging the entire system.

It would make sense however in future revisions to implement full on/off app functionality for the UV, as well as brightness control, as there already is for the GI. This is what I am trying to say.

ps. By the way, When I was referring to channels, I was referring to the 2 separate circuits (GI and UV), not the mixing of colors within a circuit (RGB)

So the OB has 4 channels, and one of the suggestions you gave to me once for checking a channel was to give it a 9v trigger across a set of channel leads. What happens if you connect 2 or more channels (each channel programmed a different color) together across the same leads, and then trigger them simultaneously across those leads? A resulting flash of a Random color that was assigned to one of those channels, right?
Now this is one possible behavior outcome for conflict resolution of multiple channels being triggered simultaneously (a race condition, or a random pick from the triggered channels, whatever this is).
All I was really suggesting were a couple more possibilities to consider for future development, in the area of this kind of conflict resolution.

Well, to be completely transparent here, it does look like you have made 2535 of the 5003 posts
Still, great product, good solution! I use your lights on all of my machines.
Keep it up!