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A few questions:
1. I may have missed it, how do these mount?
2. I watched the video of them pivoting from one end for pf service... It that all they do to be able to work on a game? I would consider trying these on a TAF on route, but of course a route game needs the ability to get under the hood with no extra hassle.
3. Can I wire these somehow on TAF so they just come on each time the power is turned on?
Quoted from Rock914:I can certainly see why WOZ may appear that way but with WOZ it really depends on when you take that picture as the games lighting changes quickly and frequently.
Happy you like my videos, I feel like a dork making them but they are needed.I will see these this weekend Hilton, I am sure I can make a plug and play connection for this to turn on with the game. If the led settings are saved when powered off this would be the ideal thing to do in my opinion. I will see Scott this coming weekend and hope I can help refine this a little of he is willing to take my advice.
cool! Please keep me posted. If this can work for me, I would love to try it out in TAF.
It is a game that so many love but is obviously a very dark game (esp in the back area). I tried a few things in the past and nothing looked right.
I am looking forward to seeing this in person
(or at least some better actual photos of install of a model with the ability to turn on/off with the game and store a specific brightness.)
Quoted from epthegeek:I don’t get this at all. You already had a massive set of LEDs to throw light with, why didn’t you just make a new control module that would hook flashers into the regular pinstadiums? Why do you need even more LEDs?
The simple answer >
Quoted from russdx:you make more $$$ if you gotta buy both!
The salesman answer >
Quoted from pinstadium:Excellent questions!! That was something I originally thought of too, as far as trying to make the existing Pin Stadiums do both. As you will see I quickly answered my own question too
The Pin Stadium lights are specifically designed and dedicated to provide GI illumination to the playfield. If you attempt to use them as flashers then you cause the playfield illumination to go off and to have to start the flashers. Which effectively negates the main benefit to what they provide. As a result the playfield illumination turns off and you lose track of the ball while get blasted with flashers! Not a sacrifice I was willing to accept. Believe me I tried and it was an absolute nightmare.
That loss of illumination is intense once you see a game with Pin Stadiums Off and then On. It literally looks like you turned the GI “Off” on the game completely in most instances. Anyone that owns them can attest to this and also losing track of the ball is the biggest thing you don’t want to do.
I also tried another flasher method where I kept just the white lights on while pulsing the colored LEDs only. The result was that you sacrifice the colors settings you have dialed in on the app which ruins the point of even having the app to customize the playfield illumination/colors.
Then in addition to that I tried dimming the white lights because when I was flashing the Red, Greens, and Blues in the previous scenario they were hardly making any impact relative to the illumination even just the white Pin Stadium GI lights alone were providing. You literally couldn’t see this light flash if at all (I had to bend down and look directly at the lights to see if they were coming on) and it did nothing noticeable (explained in detail further down as to why).
So dimming the white made them a “little” more pronounced (and I mean very little) but again you lose playfield illumination and ball tracking, mess with your app settings etc. So no go there either for sure. I would never want to sacrifice gameplay and ball tracking for a light show whenever possible.
Also RGB lights are 1/3 the size of a full blown SMD chip as they are mini clustered diodes on one chip versus being dedicated to that color like a White would be. Even if you separate them into larger chips the same size of the white you have an unmerged mess of lights on the playfield, less LEDs overall too. Plus to make i worse you literally see the Red, Green, and Blue shining on the playfield like a Christmas tree. Yikes!!! How do I know? Because it happened to me during the prototyping and design process. It was a nightmare and eye sore needless to say.
In these scenarios mentioned above I was also effectively taking out the very most important color spectrum (White) for visibility of the grouping of the Pin Stadium lights.
It is important to note that White is THE “very” most important part of what allows you to have the full spectrum color ability for the Orion’s Belts flashers and gives the highly impressive effects/features of the product by far. With white you can now use the color wheel in the Pin Stadium app to dial in those flashers to ANY color that you would like.
Without “White” you go from just 3 flasher colors (Red, Green, and Blue) to 16 million colors flasher options by adding that alone. It’s HUGE and gives you unlimited possibilities! Then add the fact the the custom Flasher Module allows individual brightness control of each one!!!
So this is why the Orion’s Belt is a separate standalone complimenting product and mounts under the Pin Stadiums with very stealth mount and form factor while having built in Invisi-Shields!! The LED PCB and the chips on Orion’s are completely custom and massively upgraded that overcome all of these issues to handle more power, delivery high quality driven results with true colors, and to perfectly compliment the Pin Stadiums GI lighting by expanding that product even further past where it already is.
Additionally I am giving customers the option to use Orion’s Belt as a standalone product if they want instead of buying both. Which is always nice to options!
However the combination of the two together is outstanding results!!
I hope this better answers these questions and explains a small portion of what I did over the last year in designing these. I trust that when a customer installs these that the results will speak more than words can ever say.
There’s a lot more to this that I could elaborate on and am happy to as questions come up. I love talking about these things and getting chance to explain better. But I will spare you all for now.
—
Scott
Pin Stadium
www.pinstadium.com
The real answer >>
Pinstadium lights are so damn bright that it over powers the flasher effects on many games (can no longer sense them out of the corner of your eye when playing). This has been a negative I have heard from even the most vocal supporters of this over priced junk. The business answer is then to upsell to the customer with another product that brings back the ability to see a flasher.
Pretty soon, there will be pinstadium ultras which are needed to get a better sense of the GI since the new orions belt over powers the GI now.
A few more revolutions and you will finally see this come to the reality that was created b Jay a few years back with IronMan.
Quoted from pinstadium:Yes, that brings up and excellent point too with expanded controls and versatility on Orion's Belt that was taken into consideration as it gives you full control of the flashers brightness on each individual trigger so that you can balance them to exactly the correct level of brightness you would like. In addition you can color code or color match the flasher to make identification of that shot even easier.
This way you don't have to look back at what you just shot to see if that flasher on the playfield is telling you if you made the shot or not. You can continue to follow the ball and plan your next shot. Or in the reverse sense if there is a shot to be made that is flashing you know where you have to go without looking away to that flasher or even at the display. I took input from competitive players specifically for this purpose.
This is something that Trent from Tilt Amusements specifically uses when he plays. It makes much more sense to not look back or try to look away but to keep progressing forward staying focused on ball position. I never thought of it as I am a casual player.
And even better you still can see the original integrity of the flashers too from the machine as the factory intended if you like, as this is due to the side fire design of the Orion's Belt that evenly coats the playfield so it does not over power by distracting you with seeing the light source of Orion. Thanks Trent for that simple yet very important input.
Funny, I play with standard lighting and standard LEDs (often even remove LED flashers to reinstall incandescent when they are too bright) and have absolutely zero problem with knowing when a flasher goes off and what it means. The pinstadium junk over powers the normal flashers, hence the upsell to return the flashers to a level that is noticable. You swing it as marketing and a new offering (nevermind the insane prices on this junk).
I look at it as another great reason to remove the junk from a game all together.
Better yet, if anyone really thinks a game is too dark, a few simple spot lights can be added for $20. Benefit that they also dont blow out artwork, blind a player, make you lose the ball, or cost as much; and you can position them exactly where needed.
Quoted from Lonzo:So you don’t like the Pinstadium’s? Then why are you even in this thread?
It is a pinball forum talking about pinball and in this case a mod for a game.
Sharing an opinion on a product is not trolling.
Quoted from Lonzo:It is when you do it with your style. How many times did you call the product junk? There is no need for that.
I called it junk 3 times. I find it to be a junky product.
I was honestly excited to see what it could be when it was announced originally, but after seeing it in person, the many games on route where it is falling apart, and now that it needs a new strobe add-on due to over powering the regular ones, it reinforces the issues with this product.
There is a legit problem with some games that are just to dark or have poor factory lighting.
Sadly this product is not the answer for the price/ quality.
Quoted from Lonzo:you can turn the “damn” bright lights down
seems silly to be "needing" this product and then turning it down to 25% brightness.
this seems like a really easy way to add lights exactly where needed for a dim pf, at a fraction of the cost, and bonus that the flashers are still completely noticeable.
lights (resized).JPGQuoted from bobukcat:The moderators set a compromise of sorts regarding Pinstadiums because they are so polarizing for some reason (few seem to be in the middle); Scott no longer posts about them in game threads and haters (this means you) are to stay out of the P.S. thread which is here for announcements and fans of the product, etc.
I did not realize this was a dedicated club thread for the specific product. My apologies.
I did not realize that pinside now had dedicated threads for mods.
Quoted from Jimmyhonda:Notice the reduction in glare.
honestly this is all I notice.
wth (resized).jpegQuoted from pinstadium:Last night SkipNatty from Buffalo Pinball turned off the external stream light to show how much TNA can benefit from the Pin Stadiums. I have attached some pics of what results you can expect. There’s a reason TNA and Pin Stadiums are a huge hit. Lots of lots sold for this machine.
This is cool to watch: https://clips.twitch.tv/FantasticNimbleMonkeyKappaWealth[quoted image][quoted image]
This looks aweful. Even the designer has been clear how your product ruins the lighting effects of the game.
Frankly it looks like junk and saying the game can 'benefit' from your zebra stripe over priced crap is just tacky. Give it a rest on tna. Is isn't needed and your constant statements that it is are poor form. There are plenty of games that need lights added. Tna is not one. Having jusy a smidge of respect fir a designers intent might actually do you some good.
Quoted from pinstadium:Being able to have the honor to be on stage with PAPA last year and this year is quite the sight to see.
Doug and the crew are so dedicated to what they do. It’s amazing how they take an extremely complicated event and make it such a professionally smooth experience for everyone. They simply love what they do and do it with pure passion.
My appreciation grows continually for what they do for our community.
saw 3 games with Pinstadiums still ON at Pinburgh even though games were turned off. It was noted on games that the Pinstadiums caused issues and that is why the games were off.
in B finals, your product fell off a game during competitive play 2x. They had to remove the product.
FYI, sounds like some pretty big issues when using these in games during competitive play and now the confirmed potential for critical failure during playoffs at the largest event ever!!!
Quoted from pinstadium:Great feedback and good point to bring up as to clarify this. The one game that had that issue was not a PAPA and brought by someone and after transport it's very important to resecure the lights fully on the mounting system.
happened multiple times, even after resecuring.
Same thing I have experienced when playing on route and the product falls into the game, rendering it down for the count.
Quoted from pinstadium:am honored to be considered part of that.
after feedback from many players this year... I am not so sure you will be part of it going forward.
Between lights falling off mid game, your weird seagway robot thing getting in the way at times, and just general dislike of the aftermarket product on competition games by players that played on those banks; I have to think there may be enough player revolt to be done with this stuff in competitive games.
Similar to how players hated the change to deadbounce flipper rubbers and those were largely done away with.
Quoted from pickleric:It feels like this thread and the other pin stadium thread are competing to stay at the top of pinside by making back to back posts after each other.
pretty obvious why he is spam posting his advert thread now...
and refusing to address (or actually do something like apologize and change it) his spam advertising in the other thread...
Quoted from onemoresean:Why are the factory spot lights off in the before pic?[quoted image]
Because he actively edits and works to try and show a difference in light when the reality is few modern games need any additional light and a spot light does the trick
Quoted from Pinzap:There must be a better solution than that. If we still want some information about the product... but don’t want to be reading multiple posts often about the same thing, but drawn out like it was some type of Captain Kirk dialogue... what should we do? I’m just trying to offer respectful, constructive criticism to Scott.
have you met the dude in real life? I dont think it is a schtick. this is whom he is.
Personally, I think many will opt to just drain after this latest bout of behavior.
Many have also woken up to his mods falling the category of "worthless upon resale of a game" which often impacts mod buy decisions.
I know with a colorDMD that I will get most of the money out when selling a game with one or could easily utilize in another game with zero hassle.
With these, you are recouping maybe 10% of the cost and also turning off probably 50% of your potential game buyers that dont want them.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Drain it. Then if you want updates go into your list of drained treads and my guess it will be at the top.
That is funny!
Quoted from frankmac:Have the before photos been photoshoped to look darker. I have a Willy Wonka , Black Knight , and many more of the games and not one are as dark as your before photos.. Strange.
appears to be camera settings/exposure.
I have never seen ANY game as dark as they are shown in his photos.
Quoted from Pinzap:Hmmm... I guess the consensus is to drain it. I respect you Erik, and you know it. But I was hoping for some moderation in the spam/bumping rather than the nuclear option. Oh well.
I am not sure why he has not been moderated to reduce over bumping. This is essentially a FS thread for his products.
If you, I, or any other user over bumps a thread for a game you are selling or ISO (i.e. not replying to conversation but just stretching out a single post over hours of multiple posts), then you will almost certainly get an immediate warning and reminder that policy is one bump per day.
In the past 48 hours he has made 129 posts in this thread, most of those strategically stretched out over hours of time to keep this thread at the top (likely to try and divert from the backlash and public awareness of his abuse of the marketing on the site.
The OP has made more than 50% of the posts in this thread, with over 2600 to date (averaging 3 bumps per day since it was started)
Quoted from chuckwurt:These aren’t for everyone. They aren’t for me in most cases. But like any other mod you probably should see it before you buy it.
Can you take the same photo with 2 spotlights added to slings?
If just a little more light is your goal then you can do it for ~5% of the cost, with less effort, and better overall effect (bonus of no zebra stripes, no worry of parts falling into game while playing, and the ability to not detract from a future game sale by turning off potential buyers)
Quoted from chuckwurt:meaning they do not follow the GI circuitry. This allows me to track the ball better when the game uses the entire GI to flash on and off. That contrast always gets to me. Something I wish Data East games never did.
that is fixed with aftermarket board and is AWESOME!!
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