(Topic ID: 122466)

New Multimorphic Video


By RyanClaytor

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by BobC
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    #1 5 years ago

    Not sure how many people have seen this yet, but there's a new video on Multimorphic's homepage, highlighting (among other things) the modularity potential for this platform (not just back third PF, but flipper configuration, and even above-the-LCD components[!??!]). I'm guessing this was timed to release at TPF, but Gerry just sent out a public update email highlighting this video, so I'm assuming it's safe to post here too:

    Best of luck this weekend at TPF, Multimorphic! Wish I could be there. Will someone please report back about the P3 showing this weekend?

    Ryan Claytor
    Elephant Eater Comics
    www.ElephantEater.com

    #2 5 years ago

    looking forward to playing it this weekend! a Predator refund would fund 1/2 the purchase!

    #3 5 years ago
    Quoted from dgoett:

    looking forward to playing it this weekend! a Predator refund would fund 1/2 the purchase!

    When you get your money back, you can keep it and let it accrue interest in your own account until the P3 passes the pre-produciton phase (testing the manufacturing process by building quite a few games on their own dime) and only pay when they go into production on customer machines!

    #4 5 years ago

    I love the concept behind the P3 system but the art design for the first two games look really rough. Hopefully it plays so good I can get past that.

    #5 5 years ago
    Quoted from Ed209:

    I love the concept behind the P3 system but the art design for the first two games look really rough.

    You won't have to look past it because you just choose from any number of other games that you will be able to purchase along with your P3 system. Look out, this is the future.

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from solarvalue:

    Look out, this is the future.

    That's for us to decide.

    #7 5 years ago
    Quoted from DarkWizard:

    That's for us to decide.

    Absolutely, us and everyone outside of Pinside who are yet to discover pinball.

    #8 5 years ago

    Any chance that narrator is Mark from the Classic Game Room reviews? And when did it change from Lexy Lightspeed "Galaxy Girl"to Ëscape from Earth"? I'll withhold judgement until I play one, but I must say P3 looks cooler and cooler every time I see it!

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from Strohz:

    Any chance that narrator is Mark from the Classic Game Room reviews? And when did it change from Lexy Lightspeed "Galaxy Girl"to Ëscape from Earth"? I'll withhold judgement until I play one, but I must say P3 looks cooler and cooler every time I see it!

    The voice belongs to Jerry Thompson, a friend of the sound designer on Lext Lightspeed. The name change was announced with the release of this video. There is also a new game introduction video that we put together that sets up the story of Lexy really well I think. Drop by the multimorphic booth if you are at TPF and check it out. It really is an awesome game and platform.

    -Stephen

    -4
    #10 5 years ago

    I'm really curious how they intend to lay pop bumpers over LCD (Yes I know they are already doing flippers and slings by wire), but I don't see anything connecting them to the rest of the system (magic of 3d renderings).

    Also I still hate that 2/3rds is LCD screen, they should have reduced it down to 1/2 or even 1/3 LCD. The layout still feels so compromised because of this limitation. Sorry Ryan, no swappability cost savings or virtual interactivity in the world makes me want to plunk $10k for 2 games. I would much rather invest into heighway pinball with fully swappable playfields. That thing is a video game with real balls hitting a few objects, that is not pinball... And that's speaking from someone that loves the P2k format (floating display doesn't have to affect layout)

    #11 5 years ago

    Hi Toyotaboy,

    Thanks for chiming-in here. I can't speak to the mechanics of the over-LCD pops, perhaps Gerry will speak here eventually (this is a pretty busy weekend for him with TPF).

    Regarding your opinion about the P3 as "a video game with real balls hitting a few objects, that is not pinball..." I must admit, I shared similar sentiments before playing the P3 recently (2014 Chicago Pinball Expo with the code about 80-85% complete, from my understanding). However, once I played it in person I was absolutely astounded. The gameplay was fast, fun and challenging, the LCD playfield had a surprisingly fast reaction time and gave me the most intuitive first-time pinball experience I've ever had, and contrary to my initial suspicions it truly felt like there was A LOT to shoot for (a comparable # of shots to other modern pinball machines at the top 1/3, plus the "walls and scoops" mech essentially double that, an 8-ball physical ball lock(!??!), plus the side targets). Even without mentioning the virtual targets, already you have more physical/mechanical shots than the vast majority of pinball machines produced. Do you mind if I ask; when was the last time you played the P3? Not trying to be argumentative, just conversational, because I can relate to a lot of your concerns...prior to playing LL-EE this past October.

    As a quick side note, I noticed that you have WH2O rated pretty highly. A fact that often gets buried in the amount of new information surrounding the P3 is that LL-EE is designed by Dennis Nordman(!!!). I don't know why that fact alone isn't making more people excited. He's well-known for building fun and untraditional pinball machines (WH2O, Pirates, Elvira [both], Demolition Man, Blackwater 100, etc, etc, etc) and this first P3 game is fun to shoot!

    I know I may sound like a bit of a cheerleader, but I honestly have very little connection to Gerry aside from meeting him at a couple shows and being enamored with his product. After our most recent chat, we came to an agreement for me to illustrate a T-shirt design for the P3. (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-t-shirt-design-by-ryan-claytor-the-revolutionary-p3) That's really it. However, from the brief time I've come to know Gerry (through conventions, our client relationship for the new P3 shirt design, and observing his interactions with supporters and nay-sayers online), I have great admiration for his level-headed intelligence, his business savvy, his complete redesign of pinball, and his dogged determination to see this project through to completion. I can unequivocally say that this is the game, the platform, and the company I am MOST excited about in pinball right now.

    I urge you to make the P3 a priority play next convention you're at. I see you're in IL. I can only imagine it will be at Chicago in October, assuming you don't plan on attending TPF this weekend. I think the gameplay alone will sell it. And if you have some time to chat with Gerry (he's easy to find next to the P3), it's hard not to understand the mammoth potential in this platform after learning just a few things from him.

    Hope this finds you well, Toyotaboy! See you around the boards, here.

    Sincerely,
    Ryan Claytor
    Elephant Eater Comics
    www.ElephantEater.com

    #12 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    I'm really curious how they intend to lay pop bumpers over LCD (Yes I know they are already doing flippers and slings by wire), but I don't see anything connecting them to the rest of the system (magic of 3d renderings).
    Also I still hate that 2/3rds is LCD screen, they should have reduced it down to 1/2 or even 1/3 LCD. The layout still feels so compromised because of this limitation. Sorry Ryan, no swappability cost savings or virtual interactivity in the world makes me want to plunk $10k for 2 games. I would much rather invest into heighway pinball with fully swappable playfields. That thing is a video game with real balls hitting a few objects, that is not pinball... And that's speaking from someone that loves the P2k format (floating display doesn't have to affect layout)

    I was typing a bunch of stuff, some of what Ryan said and some of my own observations after having played the game a few times, but I'm not into justifying or coercing.

    What it comes down to is you should play it and decide if you like it or not. I would very much encourage you to do so.

    Platform-wise, writing off the entire concept and the possibilities therein based on your impression of the layout of the first game is not a very far-reaching view. Imagine if people were all "Wrestlemania is terrible, this new SPIKE platform is terrible and Stern can never use it to make a good game". Or if the legacy of a video game console was judged entirely based on its launch titles.

    #13 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    I'm really curious how they intend to lay pop bumpers over LCD (Yes I know they are already doing flippers and slings by wire), but I don't see anything connecting them to the rest of the system (magic of 3d renderings).

    That I can answer, there's something there "to see" but it's meant not to be seen. The "floating" assemblies above the playfield are mounted on a clear piece of lexan or acrylic or plexi or something. Not sure what the material actually is. In the video this can be seen as the mostly transparent sheet that slides in with all of the assemblies. It's pretty quick.

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from Ed209:

    I love the concept behind the P3 system but the art design for the first two games look really rough. Hopefully it plays so good I can get past that.

    Agreed. Pinball is gameplay + art...and usually you can discount bad art for good gameplay - however, since P3's gimmick is the screen and animation - anything less than solid art design and animation majorly detracts from the experience. Lexi's art, design, and animation kill my interest in P3 at the moment. I can't spend $10k on that particular game.

    Quoted from solarvalue:

    You won't have to look past it because you just choose from any number of other games that you will be able to purchase along with your P3 system. Look out, this is the future.

    Will P3 make it far enough for other developers to invest in making new games/modules? Are any new games being worked on at the moment? Will there be an option to buy P3 with a different game instead of Lexi? I love the P3 concept, but I need the right GAME to sell me on it...just the tech won't cut it.

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from RyanClaytor:

    As a quick side note, I noticed that you have WH2O rated pretty highly. A fact that often gets buried in the amount of new information surrounding the P3 is that LL-EE is designed by Dennis Nordman(!!!). I don't know why that fact alone isn't making more people excited. He's well-known for building fun and untraditional pinball machines (WH2O, Pirates, Elvira [both], Demolition Man, Blackwater 100, etc, etc,

    Yes, and what makes them great is his attention to detail of 3d objects (W20: waterslide ramp, boulders.. B100: entire playfield is filled with plastic ramps). His side hobby is making scale model houses.

    #16 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Also I still hate that 2/3rds is LCD screen, they should have reduced it down to 1/2 or even 1/3 LCD. The layout still feels so compromised because of this limitation.

    Did you watch the video above? (serious question) In that video you can see that the layout is not compromised by the screen because playfield elements (pop bumpers, ramps and even, Gerry has mentioned, upwards scoops) will be able to be placed on top of the screen.

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Will P3 make it far enough for other developers to invest in making new games/modules?

    Obviously we don't know but, man, they have put a lot of effort into this platform already, all on their own dime. They have been working slow and steady for years now. They are working on a developer's kit to help people make and market games and the Multimorphic forums already have a very active community for people to get help with their P-ROC and P-3ROC based games. I can only imagine that Gerry and the rest of the team will be super motivated to help anyone looking to develop a game on this system and will go above and beyond to help. With everything being open-source, the risk of this project failing is spread across many more participants and therefore I'd say that it is more likely to succeed than some other start-ups.

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Will there be an option to buy P3 with a different game instead of Lexi?

    As far as I understand it you will be able to buy the P3 system with whichever of their games you choose.

    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Yes, and what makes them great is his attention to detail of 3d objects (W20: waterslide ramp, boulders.. B100: entire playfield is filled with plastic ramps). His side hobby is making scale model houses.

    The major toy in LL:EE, the ship with an 8 ball physical lock, looks really great in person. As a Nordman fan myself, I think it fits right in with the detailed physical objects he has done in the past.

    It's cool if it isn't ultimately a game that you are into, but I'll repeat what has been said elsewhere and urge you to try to reserve judgement until you get a chance to play a few games on the current prototype with the mature code. Being the first game with a bright LCD screen playfield, it is incredibly hard to convey in pictures and video how the game looks and feels in person (Trust me, I know. I do the promo videos). If after you see it and play it, you still decide this specific title isn't for you, then no problem. I think the P3 title for you just hasn't been made yet, but I have faith it will be. Open Platforms are good at creating lots of choices. I personally can't wait to see what talented 3rd parties come up with for the platform, as well as what Gerry and his talented team do in the future. It's a lot easier to ship a new pinball machine when you don't have to design and build 75% of the machine.

    Also, LL:EE is a really fun game, the screen really enhances the gameplay experience, and getting player instructions and gameplay feedback on that screen really is awesome. But don't take my word for it, give it an honest, open minded shot the next time it is at a show near you.

    -Stephen

    #18 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Will P3 make it far enough for other developers to invest in making new games/modules?

    I have no inside info, other than my observations, but I suspect P3 will attract a LOT of "boutique" developers. Gerry is bang on the money when he says stuff like (paraphrasing) "why get caught up in the nightmare of manufacturing when you can just do the "fun" designing and very little production worries".

    I suspect there will be many games in time.

    #19 5 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I have no inside info, other than my observations, but I suspect P3 will attract a LOT of "boutique" developers. Gerry is bang on the money when he says stuff like (paraphrasing) "why get caught up in the nightmare of manufacturing when you can just do the "fun" designing and very little production worries".
    I suspect there will be many games in time.

    But will they have the level of art direction, animation, music and voice acting that I expect from a $10k pinball machine - or will they all feel low budget, amateurish and "indie"? I really want to see something that makes me go "holy shit" and forces me to whip out the checkbook. I'm hoping someone with Dutch's sensibilities (BOP 2.0 and Lebowski are indie and made me go "holy shit!") takes a crack at P3.

    #20 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    But will they have the level of art direction, animation, music and voice acting that I expect from a $10k pinball machine - or will they all feel low budget, amateurish and "indie"? I really want to see something that makes me go "holy shit" and forces me to whip out the checkbook. I'm hoping someone with Dutch's sensibilities (BOP 2.0 and Lebowski are indie and made me go "holy shit!") takes a crack at P3.

    Well, it'll either happen or it won't. If a P3 title shows up down the road that gives you that "holy shit!" moment, you can cut a check. No created false scarcity forcing you into a "now or never" situation. The product will have to sell itself.

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from solarvalue:

    You won't have to look past it because you just choose from any number of other games that you will be able to purchase along with your P3 system. Look out, this is the future.

    I'm a little confused how this will work for operators? If the side art is just magnets, kids will be ripping these things off left and right, no? It appears to me that Multimorphic is targeting the home buyers specifically? Does anyone see it differently?

    If they are primarily targeting home buyers, then I see this as a pinball equivalent of a video game console (only much more costly.) I'm not sure how that will be received. The thing I love about pinball is the artwork and mechanical interaction (not virtual, video interaction.) Just like arcade games being collected today, it's the original games in the original cabinets (and original artwork) that are most valuable. Not MAME.

    But I absolutely do wish for the best for these guys. I love the innovation no matter what.

    #22 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinChili:

    Just like arcade games being collected today, it's the original games in the original cabinets (and original artwork) that are most valuable. Not MAME.

    Most collectors have limited space. I am close to being full but can probably push walls to accommodate 8 pins. You guess I will be extremely selective about the new pins I will buy, because the one I have now are more or less keepers. So adding a modular system such as P3 makes complete sense.

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    I really want to see something that makes me go "holy shit" and forces me to whip out the checkbook.

    Same - except I can't whip out the checkbook, except if I get some $ back from the Predator fiasco...

    #23 5 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    So adding a modular system such as P3 makes complete sense.

    I have room for 14, and have decided 1 spot will be P3, 1 spot will be Heighway, and can swap games as needed. 12 spots will remain for traditional pinball, and if P3/Heighway can rock my socks with multiple great titles then I'll entertain allocating more spots to them.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I have [...] decided 1 spot will be P3, 1 spot will be Heighway, and can swap games as needed. [...] and if P3/Heighway can rock my socks with multiple great titles then I'll entertain allocating more spots to them.

    Wow. So cool!

    Quoted from PinChili:

    I'm a little confused how this will work for operators? If the side art is just magnets, kids will be ripping these things off left and right, no?

    I'm pretty sure I've heard Gerry talk about a system for securing the magnetized side-art in a public location. Again, I'll let him explain his innovations in a more accurate way than I can, but my suspicion is that it will be post-TPF.

    Quoted from frolic:

    I have no inside info, other than my observations, but I suspect P3 will attract a LOT of "boutique" developers. Gerry is bang on the money when he says stuff like (paraphrasing) "why get caught up in the nightmare of manufacturing when you can just do the "fun" designing and very little production worries".
    I suspect there will be many games in time.

    Right. I mean, Gerry's fostered this boutique revolution for a number of years already with his P-Roc/P3-Roc boards. I think there was something in the range of 2 dozen games running P-Roc at the Chicago Pinball Expo this year(!??!). That's pretty impressive! On top of that, Gerry's pinball controllers site is a haven for developers with those types of interests. My thoughts align with frolic's on this front.

    #25 5 years ago

    Gerry and his crew have down a fantastic job in being innovative but I have a concern - mainly the lcd as what happens in years to come, will they be available.

    Overall it is a cool concept and I like the idea of swappable designs.

    Personally I think he is very innovative and stepped up pinball design up in a cool way as the playfield looks cool but would of been great to see this game done in 2 playfield styles to see which wins people over, and to show the potential as many people will think it has gone too much to the video game side.

    What if their was 2 playfield versions
    - playfield style 1 - as per the current with the video animated playfield and how it looks like a video game
    - playfield style 2 - very similar to playfields that we know with the typical playfield art and inserts and the lcd graphic inserts light up or could have small cool animated explosions in the insert and flow beyond the in theory when a physical target is hit, flames from a car exhaust insert showing a car getting away if you reach a certain goal. Then when a set of goals is achieved a modified playfield with relocated inserts is shown with new goals - game advancement. Of if the game proceeds in time - ;like ball 1 is morning, 2 is afternoon and 3 is night and if you are lucky you survive the day you are awarded a 4th ball and it is morning again with the playfield lighting changing on each ball.

    Having these 2 styles say at a pinball show with the same game rules but with the 2 different visible playfield styles (video game v's classic insert) could of captured what the market likes best or analyse what age groups like which version.

    For me I would prefer the playfield style 2.

    #26 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinChili:

    I'm a little confused how this will work for operators? If the side art is just magnets, kids will be ripping these things off left and right, no? It appears to me that Multimorphic is targeting the home buyers specifically? Does anyone see it differently?

    Yes, there will be a kit for operators that allows them to secure the artwork on location. It has a coin door. The game will be internet-connected. I think these will do very well on location.

    #27 5 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    playfield style 2 - very similar to playfields that we know with the typical playfield art and inserts

    So your complaint is that the "inserts" on the LCD playfield don't look enough like traditional lightbulb-based inserts? I mean, that's kind of the whole point. You don't need a bunch of unlit inserts cluttering up the playfield at all times -- you just show the "inserts" (arrows and text or whatever) that apply at the current moment.

    It's much more flexible and easier to read/understand (I've seen a lot of comments indicating this). If the same ramp does different things in different modes, you don't need to have many small inserts lined up in front of it or reuse the same generic insert for different purposes. You can have whatever art/text you want show up that denotes that ramp is lit for whatever event(s).

    That said, the beauty of the platform is that the designer can do anything they want. You could make something where the digital playfield art looked and worked exactly like a traditional game with inserts that looked lit/unlit. Or have a hybrid approach where it looked like a traditional insert, but could actually change dynamically. Maybe that's what you're getting at. I believe some of the tables in Pinball FX are actually like this. There will be like a square shape that looks like an insert and can be lit or unlit. But when lit it can actually show different characters/icons based on the mode.

    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from Roo:

    ou don't need a bunch of unlit inserts cluttering up the playfield at all times -- you just show the "inserts" (arrows and text or whatever) that apply at the current moment.
    It's much more flexible and easier to read/understand (I've seen a lot of comments indicating this).

    This is true but I think what Swinks' post reflects is that it is difficult for people who are already into pinball to accept this platform because of the following:

    a) It is a huge leap in terms of innovation compared to what we are used to in this hobby:
    Change in pinball has occurred very slowly (especially in recent times). For example. we now have some companies moving from a DMD to an LCD display and the backlash against this has been significant, many have resisted the change. With the P3, not only is there a change of display technology but there have been many, many other changes including (but not limited to):
    - the display being moved to the playfield
    - inserts being replaced with the playfield LCD
    - the playfield being no longer made of wood
    - all playfield components are now interchangeable
    - playfield components (flippers, pop bumpers, etc.) are now floating above the LCD
    - cabinet artwork is removable and interchangeable
    - one cabinet can house multiple games
    These are all very significant changes and they are all happening at once.

    b) The association of the LCD screen underneath the playfield to video games.
    It is difficult for many to look past this association and see that the under-playfield LCD is simply a different way to display the information which has traditionally been signalled by inserts and static playfield art.

    c) The ability of the physical ball to interact with virtual elements.
    Some people might not like this because of (b) above or personal preference.

    Therefore I can see the value of a game on the P3 which simulates a traditional game with inserts and static images on the playfield as a kind of stepping-stone for people used to traditional games. In this case the traditionalist would only have to deal one change, the playfield being made of a different material, everything else looks familiar.

    It won't matter so much for people new to pinball. It would be interesting to see what would happen if a kid was let loose in an arcade with a DMD game, JJP game with a LCD backglass and the P3. Which would attract and hold his or her interest. I suspect the P3 may have an advantage because of the extra capabilities of the LCD playfield to communicate the rules of the game and engage the player.

    #29 5 years ago

    One other thing I just thought of:

    Really the change from playfield inserts to playfield LCD is similar to the change which occurred in the 1950s from lamps lighting different scores on the backglass (one thousand, two thousand, etc.) to score reels. It's just that now we have that change occuring on the playfield. We are going from different features being indicated by individual fixed lamps to being indicated by a display which can change.

    #30 5 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    playfield style 2 - very similar to playfields that we know with the typical playfield art and inserts

    Hey Swinks,

    Good seein' you around these parts. You know, I think you're not alone in this sentiment. SolarValue just made a lot of valid points above, but it really comes down to the fact that there will be a TON of different opinions on what pinball should look like, and you know what? The P3 can do all of them!

    It can show a static image akin to a plywood playfield.
    It can show blinking inserts.
    It can animate those inserts in different ways, as you're suggesting.
    It can change entire playfield artwork within a single game.
    It could animate that artwork.
    It could play entire video sequences underneath a physical ball zooming around the playfield.

    ...and it can do all that with dynamic ball interaction. Does Lexi do all this? No. However, if a single game did all that, in my opinion it would likely feel pretty disjointed. But who's to say that someone with your same ideas of how a playfield should appear won't jump into the designer's ring and try their hand at making a game? Gerry's made the Multimorphic P3 Development kit available to anyone. There's really very little barrier between motivated parties and a completed game with this platform.

    It's all possible now, that's the exciting part to me.

    Hope this finds you well, my man!
    Ryan Claytor
    Elephant Eater Comics
    www.ElephantEater.com

    #31 5 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    ....when a set of goals is achieved a modified playfield with relocated inserts is shown with new goals - game advancement.
    ...Or if the game proceeds in time - like ball 1 is morning, 2 is afternoon and 3 is night and if you are lucky you survive the day you are awarded a 4th ball and it is morning again with the playfield lighting changing on each ball.

    I think these are both very good ideas by the way.

    #32 5 years ago
    Quoted from solarvalue:

    I think these are both very good ideas by the way.

    Here here!

    #33 5 years ago

    Thanks for the input guys.

    Don't get me wrong, I think this pin is cool and has a heap of potential and Gerry has been so innovative but I personally would like to see something in between even as a trial as I love the look of inserts and surrounding art but agree the instructions flashing up is cool as well. I just think the open field look (textured grass) etc is too much to the side of a video game. Hence why I thought something in between a classic pinball art and video game could be cool.

    But in saying that I have not played a P3 so I am not criticising the work of Gerry / Multimorphic and take my hat off to him / them.

    I just thought it would be interesting to do say Lexi Lightspeed in 2 styles at a show and get all the players and spectators to vote on their preference:
    - the merged look with the insert look and animated art spilling out past the insert when a goal is achieved.
    compared to
    - the current machine and the way he has done the video game style art.

    Imagine 2 machines set up side by side playing the same game but with the 2 art / graphic styles and see what happens:
    - do the teenagers and 20's head to the newer style
    - do the 30's and 40's like both or prefer the older or newer style
    - do the 50's and beyond like the older insert style

    At the end of the day it is just a thought and if something like this identifies what the market place likes then it could help Multimorphic design future games with a more targeted approach. Also at the end of the day it would be cool if sited but if a higher percentage of sales go to the home owners as these guys are cashed up prefer the insert style there could be a lot of missed sales.

    not critical just trying to look at the concept from a different perspective.

    #34 5 years ago

    While the focus of P3 so far has been "us" (Pinside, home owners), the real potential is location play, imo.

    I'll be blunt with this statement: Pinball does not make money on location, what it's designed to do. If not for home buyers, there would be no current renaissance with pinball at all. Home buyers are a limited blip of support for pinball, and won't continue indefinitely. So someone has to answer the question for how to make pinball earn more on location.

    If those photos of P3 surrounded by kids translates into coin drop, then it will be a huge success.

    #35 5 years ago

    I really like the concept of this machine, but until there are better graphics and art, I would never consider purchasing. I do like how one could customize the cabinet art, but feel like the Lexy LightSpeed is a very weak concept. The problem with incorporating video is your going to be compared to a PS4 game, which is hard to compete with.

    #36 5 years ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    I really like the concept of this machine, but until there are better graphics and art, I would never consider purchasing. I do like how one could customize the cabinet art, but feel like the Lexy LightSpeed is a very weak concept. The problem with incorporating video is your going to be compared to a PS4 game, which is hard to compete with.

    It doesn't have to compete with PS4 - but you have appealing art direction that doesn't insantly make you think "outdated" or "low budget". They could do Flash/Aftereffects style art with awesome characters and color - minimal 3D modeling. Limited animation with great 2D Art always looks better than full animation on bad 3D models. I also think dynamic 2D art would feel more "pinball"....but "living pinball".

    #37 5 years ago

    Lexy is just the start of things here. It's part proof of concept, part demo, part fun traditional game with an ok theme and very nontraditional art and lower playfield versatility. This video is about the p3 platform, not just the launch title.

    As for LL:EE, it is going to appeal to a few sets of people right now

    A) People that want to tinker with it themselves. I fall into this category. For the purchase price you're not just getting the game, you're getting the game source and the ability to meddle with it as you will. The ability to base your own hobbyist games off of this framework without the time and engineering investment required of current custom games is what draws me in.

    B) People that think it is a fun game and want to play it. This could be theme, ruleset, flow, feel, variety, gimmick, Nordman fan, what have you. I'm also here, after playing it a few dozen times. It's a really fun and challenging game. Spooky got their artwork bashed on AMH as well, and they're selling pretty well by all reports based on how solid the whole package is. I personally think the story, gameplay accessibility, mechs, audio, and cool-factor on Lexy are superior to AMH. AMH wins on theme, humour, and lightshow.

    C) Operators that see the investment in a game that has a the potential customer draw and ease of maintenance as a solid investment. It'll still break down, but downtime (and money loss) is minimized.

    I'm sure there are other categories. I definitely fall into A and B.

    #38 5 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    . Spooky got their artwork bashed on AMH as well, and they're selling pretty well by all reports based on how solid the whole package is.

    AMH is only selling 150 games. I think P3's sales goals are a bit loftier, especially if they want other developers to spend the time creating new modules. If the first game doesn't move a certain amount of units, what incentive will there be for 3rd party support?

    #39 5 years ago

    Just spent the weekend playing Lexie-and it plays like a pinball machine. Nothing like a video game- the shots and use of flippers is pure pinball. After the first 5 games or so , the animation in the playfield blends well with the game and is not distracting. Shots to scoops, ramps orbits and targets are still the mainstay of the game, but the limits are endless.mthe speen of the game is fantastic-ball goes in one scoop, and out on a rail within a millisecond. I think it can hold 15 balls and it can be programmed to whatever timing you like. Managed to finish a few of the modes, and it is just good fun. I wish Gerry and the team nothing but luck and hope it's in production in the next few months. image.jpg

    #40 5 years ago

    as cool as this is and the potential that it has is great, but I have thought alot about it and just raising a real & practical point to consider and happy for people to explain it out as those of the focus group will know alot more so hopefully they can explain.

    * if someone gets a p-roc system and for argument sake have a cabinet with all the cab accessories, power and speaker with a blank back glass etc. Their focus in building a custom pinball is:
    - design the playfield layout
    - build the playfield
    - perform the wiring
    - design the artwork for the playfield
    - get playfield printed
    - design the artwork for the dmd
    - write the rules - meaning programming experience which seems to be the biggest challenge for most people

    * for someone to get into a custom P3 they would need to buy a p3 cabinet with fully functioning game in it so removes alot of the build and technology leaving their focus to be the following if they are to design their own game:
    - design the rear 1/3 playfield layout (as a basis)
    - build the 1/3 playfield (1/3 of the work)
    - wire up the remaining parts for the 1/3 playfield (1/3 of the work)
    - design the artwork for the 1/3 playfield (1/3 of the work)
    - design the artwork for the lcd which to me if just static would be x10-20s more than a playfield to allow for multiple different screens hence why in a previous post I thought of a static looking playfield with animation in just the inserts graphics and maybe 2-4 different playfields for different time of day or major goals.
    - design and create the animated art for the lcd playfield which would be such a specific skill required by an experienced person and my biggest concern.
    - no work required for the dmd (a bonus)
    - writing the p3 rules for your game meaning link to animations and various playfield designs which at a guess would not be easy what so ever and a few times hard than a regular game and dmd.

    The concept is cool, and if Gerry and team created the rules and programming then great for those to buy the addition playfield sections but to leave it to the public to create their own game with animation leaves me to wonder realistically how many people would contemplate taking this on.

    If a bunch of skilled and experienced people in all the required areas that were passionate about pinball could pool together then it would stand a chance. I just think promoting it to people to design their own game will targeting a extremely small group of people.

    Would love to hear thoughts of those wanting to design their own games of how you would tackle what looks like a mammoth task.

    #41 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    AMH is only selling 150 games. I think P3's sales goals are a bit loftier, especially if they want other developers to spend the time creating new modules. If the first game doesn't move a certain amount of units, what incentive will there be for 3rd party support?

    This goes back to the console argument. This is like saying that Final Fantasy 7 would only be marketable to people that've already bought their launch PlayStation along with Street Fighter: The Movie: The Video Game. Wow, looking at those PlayStation launch titles, they were pretty bad. Wow. Rayman's OK I guess.

    I see where you're coming from on the "limited run" angle, but I disagree that that model will be healthy for the hobby moving forward or that the limited-ness of AMH alone is what is selling them. Maybe I'm wrong. I have no idea how many LL:EE games or p3 machines Multimorphic wants to or projects to sell.

    If you want to develop your take on a "killer app", limit it to 150 games, lock the source, and launch it on the p3, then as far as I know you'll be free to do so (more or less, I have no idea on any specifics, licensing, approvals, or anything else). No one is saying you or any potential customers would have to purchase Lexy to get some other P3 game down the line, just that you as a game developer would have a much better starting place and some pretty innovative tech to help you along.

    You could do the some similar game without the p3, of course, but as many others have stated, "making pinball machines is hard". P3 looks like it's going to be well positioned to take care of the first 90% of the heavy lifting with regards to hardware and manufacturing and allow the creative types to flex their ideas. At least I hope that it works out that way.

    #42 5 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    The concept is cool, and if Gerry and team created the rules and programming then great for those to buy the addition playfield sections but to leave it to the public to create their own game with animation leaves me to wonder realistically how many people would contemplate taking this on.
    If a bunch of skilled and experienced people in all the required areas that were passionate about pinball could pool together then it would stand a chance. I just think promoting it to people to design their own game will targeting a extremely small group of people.

    Hi Swinks,

    I don't think they are expecting the majority of buyers to be designing their own games. Most of the buyers will simply be buying the platform with one or two games and then additional games as they come out. I know Gerry and the Multimorphic team currently have 2 games for the platform in development and have ideas for more. So there will be a steady stream of games coming out from Multimorphic in addition to those produced by outside groups of individuals and companies .

    Yes, they have put the word out to other people who might be interested in designing and developing games but, as a proportion of the people who will actually eventually own the games, I imagine that number would be quite small.

    Having said that, I'd also be interested in hearing from others contemplating designing and building games for the platform.

    #43 5 years ago
    Quoted from solarvalue:

    I don't think they are expecting the majority of buyers to be designing their own games. Most of the buyers will simply be buying the platform with one or two games and then additional games as they come out.

    I agree with that, I was using the game developer as my "A" example because it's the additional value proposition it would take to get me personally to buy this game NIB (take a look at my collection, heh) and because this thread is about the platform and the new video demonstrating how you could design new games.

    #44 5 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    This goes back to the console argument. This is like saying that Final Fantasy 7 would only be marketable to people that've already bought their launch PlayStation along with Street Fighter: The Movie: The Video Game. Wow, looking at those PlayStation launch titles, they were pretty bad. Wow. Rayman's OK I guess.

    It's a slightly fair comparison, but these products are from two different worlds. Say what you will about PS1 in retrospect, but at the time was unbelievably advanced compared to the other home consoles, had the full weight of Sony marketing behind it, and the launch games were impressive and fun at the time. I played Toshinden, Wipeout, Rayman, and Ridge Racer for hours on end. Plus, it was a $200 console vs. a $10,000 pinball machine. It's much easier to get a solid user base with a console vs. a pinball machine. P3 is going to have a tough time building enough of a user base to attract quality 3rd party support.

    Quoted from Law:

    I see where you're coming from on the "limited run" angle, but I disagree that that model will be healthy for the hobby moving forward or that the limited-ness of AMH alone is what is selling them. Maybe I'm wrong. I have no idea how many LL:EE games or p3 machines Multimorphic wants to or projects to sell.

    I don't think we're on the same page. I'm not saying anything about limitedness. You said AMH sold 150 despite it's bad artwork, as though that's an achievement. I'm saying 150 isn't that great, certainly not what Multimorphic is shooting for - especially for a platform that wants to attract support for more titles. Spooky seems to be capping AMH at 150 because that's pretty much where the demand will take them.

    Quoted from Law:

    If you want to develop your take on a "killer app", limit it to 150 games, lock the source, and launch it on the p3, then as far as I know you'll be free to do so (more or less, I have no idea on any specifics, licensing, approvals, or anything else). No one is saying you or any potential customers would have to purchase Lexy to get some other P3 game down the line, just that you as a game developer would have a much better starting place and some pretty innovative tech to help you along.

    What game developer would put in the money and effort required to sell 150 games? There's also no guarantee that every P3 owner would buy every new game module.

    Quoted from Law:

    You could do the some similar game without the p3, of course, but as many others have stated, "making pinball machines is hard". P3 looks like it's going to be well positioned to take care of the first 90% of the heavy lifting with regards to hardware and manufacturing and allow the creative types to flex their ideas. At least I hope that it works out that way.

    Well, it will be interesting if any first time developers see P3 in that way, and if they'll be able to sell their game with the whole system, rather than just as modules.

    #45 5 years ago

    All great points Rarehero! I agree that we're not following one another 100%. The back-and-forth is fun, at least for me.

    Yet some more of my internet opinions and observations. It's the internet so we're all right, yeah?

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    It's a slightly fair comparison, but these products are from two different worlds. Say what you will about PS1 in retrospect, but at the time was unbelievably advanced compared to the other home consoles, had the full weight of Sony marketing behind it, and the launch games were impressive and fun at the time. I played Toshinden, Wipeout, Rayman, and Ridge Racer for hours on end. Plus, it was a $200 console vs. a $10,000 pinball machine. It's much easier to get a solid user base with a console vs. a pinball machine. P3 is going to have a tough time building enough of a user base to attract quality 3rd party support.

    Absolutely. All day. I would also say that the p3 is incredibly advanced tech compared to the other home pinball platforms. Sony I will give you, but we're talking about an industry where "Sega" and "Nintendo" are Stern and Jersey Jack. Price-wise I don't think that's been settled. Last I checked $10k was the "estimate" MSRP for the p3 plus two games risk-free no-money-down pre-order option. If games are roughly $1-2k each that puts the p3 itself around $6k-ish, or $8-9k for the single game. That's in line with other pinball manufacturers right now. We'll see where it goes. My original FF7 comparison was more to illustrate the point that if the right game comes along, people will buy the console to play the game.

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    What game developer would put in the money and effort required to sell 150 games? There's also no guarantee that every P3 owner would buy every new game module.

    150 copies of a given software-only video game is probably the salt left in the bottom of the can of peanuts to anyone in the video game industry. I'm not sure that's as true for the pinball industry. Both BBB remake and AMH took a lot of doing to get out the door on that scale. One was at a loss as a labor of love, one seems to be the start of a solid business. I think there's room in the world for both of those types of endeavors. Either way, Multimorphic would get their (I think) deserved cut for the hardware and software tools they intend to provide.

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Well, it will be interesting if any first time developers see P3 in that way, and if they'll be able to sell their game with the whole system, rather than just as modules.

    Mark Ritchie had some interesting observations about the p3 and game development in general on Coast 2 Coast just yesterday. Definitely worth a listen. I don't know this for a fact, but once more games are available I believe the plan is that you could order the platform with any game Multimorphic is willing to ship with it, or maybe without any game in cases where you're going to get the game elsewhere or already have a couple games and want an extra cabinet. I'm just speculating here. How much extra does Microsoft charge for Halo special edition consoles nowadays? Camo trim and extra bling for the win!

    #46 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    If the first game doesn't move a certain amount of units, what incentive will there be for 3rd party support?

    It's definitely a chicken-and-egg problem, much like a video game console, as mentioned. As someone pointed out there is so much new going on here it might take awhile for people to really "get it".

    Quoted from swinks:

    ...looks like a mammoth task.

    I'll tell you this. I would never consider designing my own traditional pin. I don't know anything about electronics/hardware, wiring, woodworking, printing, etc. I don't have the space or equipment even if I did. But as someone who programs for a living, the idea of messing around with my own game that uses an existing playfield module is quite intriguing. I've never programmed a game before, but with Unity and the Multimorphic SDK I bet I could figure it out. And I could even use the LL code as a reference.

    You don't have to go with 3D models/environments, either, as Rarehero said. There's a lot you could do with 2D art or even static playfield artwork.

    It would still be a lot of work, sure. But I think there's potential here for people with skills on the software side. We've all seen how a different set of rules and/or a different theme can transform a game with the same or similar playfield into something quite different.

    I'm definitely excited by the possibilities this platform has. You can make traditional 3-balls-per-player games. You can make simple mini-games (possibly using only the screen portion of the playfield). You can make something that blends these together. You could even design a game purely for home users, if you wanted, since not every module or game for a given module needs to be feasible for coin-op.

    Imagine something similar to an old-school turn-based RPG, but in pinball form. You don't need to stick with the 3 balls-per-game format. It could have an actual story that takes like 40+ hours to complete. It could have towns and shops and dungeons. It could have complicated item/spell commands using the 2nd/3rd flipper buttons that would usually be too complicated to teach someone for a 5 minute game.

    That's just one broad idea. I look forward to seeing what people do with this.

    #47 5 years ago
    Quoted from Roo:

    Imagine something similar to an old-school turn-based RPG, but in pinball form. You don't need to stick with the 3 balls-per-game format. It could have an actual story that takes like 40+ hours to complete. It could have towns and shops and dungeons. It could have complicated item/spell commands using the 2nd/3rd flipper buttons that would usually be too complicated to teach someone for a 5 minute game.

    Ever encounter Rollers of the Realm? http://store.steampowered.com/app/262470/

    Not affiliated with those guys at all and haven't played it, but it came to mind when you said that. The third video on that page is an interesting developer interview and concept summary.

    #48 5 years ago

    thanks for your view point, and agree for those with the one game layout could change just the graphics and rules and invent your own game, very cool

    even when P3 come out with a few different rear 3rd layout so programmers can mix it up.

    I am still keen to one day play a P3 system and have lots of game ideas aso keen to design a rear playfield but programming is not my thing....

    Maybe people can team up?

    #49 5 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    Maybe people can team up?

    Definitely! Everyone has their strengths and what one person can do alone is limited.

    It seems like Gerry is positioning Multimorphic to be "part of the team" as well, rather than just another vendor.

    1 week later
    #50 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    It's a slightly fair comparison, but these products are from two different worlds. Say what you will about PS1 in retrospect, but at the time was unbelievably advanced compared to the other home consoles, had the full weight of Sony marketing behind it, and the launch games were impressive and fun at the time. I played Toshinden, Wipeout, Rayman, and Ridge Racer for hours on end. Plus, it was a $200 console vs. a $10,000 pinball machine. It's much easier to get a solid user base with a console vs. a pinball machine. P3 is going to have a tough time building enough of a user base to attract quality 3rd party support.

    The P3 price may be in line with other pinball manufacturers. That's the problem. You are only going to sell to pinball people in the short and medium term and probably long term as well. Who else is going to spend $10,000 ?

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