But the gay king doesn't 'gay' the game up for you?

That plastic keeps the ball from getting stuck behind the wire ramp.

You can polish off the silkscreen if it bothers you (or sell it someone else and replace it with clear Lexan).

Or if you can create something less "gay", then we could print them up and maybe everyone would want to "man up" their MMs.

Man I'd like to somehow get in on this to but would need to know how much money I would need upfront? This sounds like fun. I also am of the type that may not be of much help but would gladly help however I could.

I am in for this. This is the only other game I want. ^^I also have another kc pinball guy in it with me. I can build things and I have help here in kc.

So maybe a way to bite this off / organize a bit is to concentrate on the hard to find parts that need to be designed and produced.. Worst case spares would then be available for original owners (also broadens the pool of people that may want in on it). Rather than trying to bite off the whole thing.. I know if I get in on this my build order would be:

- slowly build fully populated play field on a rotisserie, as until you have that any money spent elsewhere is wasted. Run off harnesses with really long pig tails (so, from scratch, in situ)
- then fine either donor or go new for cabinet/boards.
- route cables then terminate into connectors at boards.

So at least under that, first steps:
- get parts made that need to be made, which Wally will have saved everyone a Ton of time identifying and modeling.
- order what's readily available.
- make a rotisserie

I think that it would be awesome to have a 3 or 4 day get together to build the majority of this stuff.

Have it all shipped to a central location. All interested parties meet up and have a good ol' barn raising. Have our own 'assembly line'. Keep the more time consuming simple stuff for when you get back home.

Then everyone leaves with their 'NIB' MM.

That keeps shipping to a minimum, and you add the cost of the trip into the pin. Plus everyone helps out, you meet like minded folk, and have a few beverages after and play some pin!

I'd be in for something like that.

And make a short film documenting what crazy lengths pinheads go to for pinball.

_{Post edited by smokedog : Added filming part.}

That would be fun. The beverages would need to be saved for game tuning however.

Please, sign me up. I like your thinking Smokedog!

well, then you need to ship your NIB MM back too

Or drive it back, or group ship a few of them, etc. I think it would be cheaper, more organized, more efficient if a group effort was involved instead of a piece meal thing. Plus a heck of a lot more fun.

And for the guys who don't have a ton of experience, get to see first hand the semi-pro's go to work. Worried about soldering? There will lots of guys to show you how to do it proper.

Even the least experienced can help out. Everyone knows how to use a nut driver.

Sounds like fun. I would be interested in participating as well. My concern is where do we get all those NBA FB's to shell out for the base project?

btw, why are the NBAFB considered the best donor.. it's a Bally per internet vs Williams MM? What am I missing?

1. It's the least valuable WPC95 title (at least today it is). you can usually find a good one for <2k.
2. Most of the expensive parts are interchangeable (boards, cabinet, opto board (maybe only afm), coin door board, flipper boards, lots of playfield components)
3. There is no plunger on NBAFB so you can easy drill a new hole for the Launch button.
4. The cabinet harness is identical. The playfield harness is very similar. Backbox harness is less similar.
5. You can part out the old playfield stuff and recoup some cost. I was able to recoup 500 from mine so far.

You could sell NBAFB with AFM/MM roms to a blind person and they might not know the difference.

I call the pic below, NBAFM.

2012-09-25_19-35-36_235.jpg

HA That's great.

Im in if this thing takes off. I also have a large home to build in. Would not mind everyone coming over to build these things. Im not central located tho. Im not married so nobody to answer to. My basement is unfinished and could store everything. Its over 2000 sq ft and dry as a bone. Let me know if this helps.

Anyone not privy to this thread is going to wonder why NBAFB prices just jumped $500 in one week

An idea on the break even point on Donor vs all new? Def more pain in the ass, but would be 100% new too

100% new is nice.

We'd have to see how much Rottendog boards would be in a bulk purchase.

Driver board 299, CPU 240, .... you get the idea.

Would you need a doner game like NBA:FB? Or could you buy a new cab and use that?

If we are buying in bulk it may be better in the long run. Also have 20 ppl looking for NBAFB would be crazy and drive up prices. 20 cabs, boards, cpu, you get the idea

If doing this in bulk, then it would definately be better to just get a deal for a quantity of parts (boards, cabs, etc...) and actually have NEW rather than pilaged old games.

Personally, the idea of destroying a pinball machine just to make a different one seems sacrilegious (even if that pinball machine sucks). Didn't the crazy anti-gambling parties destroy enough pinball machines back in the day?

Bulk pricing would have to be cheaper in the long run...

Somebody should take the lead on this and start a real list of interested people to get a head count. Then work on pricing parts and everything. I think 20 people looking for NBA FB would be a waist. IMO if we all go new and we all need the same parts the build in bulk will be less money. Then we would have to list what we have to buy first to start and that will be everyones initial buy in. Im not sure of the order when building a pin. But set this up in a few stages.

Stage 1 Cab and PF (if we dont buy the PF upfront and try to get it when build time comes they may jack the price)
Stage 2 Boards and wires
Stage 3 Parts and toys/ramps

Im just guessing at this so feel free to set the proper stages of this up.

I would use a Junkyard for the donor because that's one less Junkyard in the world

Doug at 'Let's Play Pinball' has this for $1300, and includes applying the decals:

Painted, Backbox Screened, Vent & Speaker Grills, Ground Braid, Leg Plates (can we sub in Stern's new design here?), T Nuts for $1300 plus price of decals ($259 from BAA)

I just left him a msg to see what price we can get on a bulk order.

Where would we find the speaker grills for these machines?

I think the key to getting more people on board is to put together the total cost of this project to the individual. I for one would have to bow out if it creeps over 7k and would rather know approximately what that figure would be before committing funds. That means that there is some front end work getting bulk price quotes from various suppliers and shops against the complete list of parts, with the assumption of X many people participating.

Wally added it up and said it would cost around 7k.

I just sold my mint MM last week for 18k (just for reference).

Good to know but, didn't he start out with a lean priced NBAFB core? In our case we would be using new so, that aspect could put us over or maybe equal if the bulk purchase discounts pan out well.

If you go with a salvage machine, you are using circuit boards and displays that are 16-20 years old.

If you build with everything new, I would think there is an extra value in having new capacitors that are not all dried out, boards that have never been hacked and transistors that have never been stressed.

Earlier this year I saw NBAFBs for 700-900 that were very worn. If you find one, that will put you under 7k.

No matter what, you are still going to come in cheaper than Hobbit, so I guess you have to decide - brand new MM or brand new Hobbit?

Good point + we already know MM is a stellar pin whereas Hobbit...who knows for sure.

Mate - things like this are not even worth consideration at this point IMO. There needs to be one or two people who are experts or at least very knowledgeable in pins as the "controller/s" of the project or there will be a case of "too many cooks". These controllers would easily sort out minor things like this.

If anyone on this forum thinks that W.G. will sell 20 sets of ANYTHING so that they can make new MM's they are seriously deluded. He is (still?) trying to re-make MMs and sell them for a profit. To his credit, he appears to have made an awful lot of parts BUT this would have come at a great cost in both time and money.

Personally I wouldn't blame him for refusing to sell to a group of people wanting to 'gazump' his project even though his project has been longer in the making than WOZ - hahahaha

So think about that when organising those 'hard to find' parts because if they are hard to find now in singles - you will have to MAKE them for lots of 20 - not impossible at all but it needs to be considered.

Then there is the legal side of things - W.G. still holds all of the rights to this pin (as far as I am aware) - this point needs to be clarified before ANYTHING else is done. He will sue the ring off anyone trying to gazump his project (and I wouldn't blame him). Anyone know a 'pin friendly' solicitor?

I'm definitely interested. As some others have said, not sure I can offer much in terms of fabrication or anything along those lines. Depending on price I could definitely be another buyer to help with the bulk order of items though.

There are a few parts that he has that we need (like the castle base), but if he does not want to sell them, we will laser cut and bend them ourselves.

He already has. There are a few MM that got built long before his own did.

I wonder what parts he is still waiting on to finish his games?

Last I heard supposedly a wiring loom and the tower bases were the obstacles...but how can a wiring loom be that difficult?

As I said earlier and I'm sure I speak for some, the upfront cost is what I'll need to know to decide if this is something I wanna partake in. If it only cost me about a grand to start that would be about perfect. I certainly wouldn't have 2 to 3 grand right away. I would need to space it out over the year to come up with the full amount of coin for this project. I do love this idea though. I figure this will be a long process so my thinking isn't unrealistic. Do any of you have a guess about what to start acquiring first and what the cost may be?

If on a budget, start with finding any junker game from the same era as MM (Junkyard, NBAFB.....)

Then the playfield would be next, as availability of these comes and goes.

Ball guides and wire ramps will come whenever we have the CAD drawings ready.

Cab graphics, translights, circuit boards, plastics, castles, plastic ramps, dragons, trolls are always available, so you can probably save those for last.

What does this base look like and could you get CAD drawings or a plate that I can look at? I have access to a laser cutting machine and press brakes. I could make them along with other required bracketry as needed.

http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=314

It used to be a $35 part, but I've not seen one for sale in years.

MMCASTLEBASE.JPG

The L brackets are simply spot welded on, no big deal, but as you can see, this is the one part you are not going to make at home (unless you have a Bridgeport in your garage).

I think these are the important things to consider to determine if this project is feasible and what the correct approach is. There are some parts such as the speaker panel that just cannot be made at home and would require a donor machine. If there isn't a source for these parts, the donor machine approach is clearly the only way to go.

I'm all for this project!

You can still get the panels for $250 and I hear Pinball Inc is doing a better version.

The panel can easily be vacuum formed from haircell Kydex, or for better sound can be routed from MDF.

If we all agree on a higher end speaker pair, we could route for them and that would save boku install time. If we are building a high end MM, no sense in installing $4 Williams Speakers.

Speaking of MDF, if building the cabs, MDF is smoother and weighs more than Plywood.

There is also plywood that has a thin layer of MDF on one side for painting, so you get 1 good finish side with the lighter weight of plywood.

Mr pinball shows it in stock for $68.

http://mrpinballa2.cart.net.au/details/2901312.html?action=set_currency&currency=USD

_{Post edited by sd_tom : Corrected currency and removed comment about expense}

Really just laser cut and bend.

The welds are spot welds = requires no skill, just clamp, burn and cool.

SKU-_1404_Spot_Welder-2.jpg

I'd consider helping on this project. My skills would be limited to assiting in dealing with the various legal matters associated with some aspects of this project. Vid, PM me if you want to chat on Monday if this talk is serious.

It's serious, I sold my MM last week!

Well it's not as simple as I thought it would be but it's still doable. I have a spot welder too so that's not an issue. How many of them are we talking here? Would it be worth while to jig em up or will this part be ok if done by hand? Im sure there are a few things on that plate that have some fudging room and don't have to be perfect?