(Topic ID: 282570)

New Mirco Quality Control procedures.

By phalcon_2600

10 months ago


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  • Latest reply 10 months ago by PinMonk
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    There are 68 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 10 months ago

    On the last Kaneda’s pinball podcast he was the first to break the story that going forward Mirco playfeilds will have new added quality control procedures. There will be an area, it would be under the apron where they will screw down an indicator. This will be something like a star post. It was said Mirco has also changed or updated their clear coat formula going forward.
    Hmmm... wasn’t chipping and pooling a problem way back with pirates and Wonka? Thought the clear formula had already been changed. Anyway, this indicator post is supposed to make it easy for Mirco to identify if a playfeild is going to be a bad one, the kind that will pool and chip around the posts before it is sent to JJP. Opinions??? What do you think of this? Do you think this will resolve the JJP pooling and chipping issue?

    #2 10 months ago

    It's a healthy start in trying to figure out exactly what the issue is and resolving it.
    I commend Mirco for trying to resolve things then to say everything is perfectly fine.
    -Mike

    32
    #3 10 months ago

    Wow, you're finally going to start testing your fucking product, earth shattering!
    Think I'll skip the first couple "new forumula" PFs

    12
    #4 10 months ago

    Why doesn’t JJP just move to Spooky play fields. The guy that runs Mirco Highclasspinball has proven himself to be an asshole countless times. It’s what keeps me from buying JJP NIB. I really don’t care what Mirco says anymore.

    #5 10 months ago

    What I find amazing is this has been a problem since Pirates and Wonka and JJP decided to use mirco again as a playfeild contractor. Me, I’m going to wait and see. Let others braver than me report back on the quality of their GnR when they get them before I will pull the trigger on a GnR.

    #6 10 months ago

    Funny how many times this problem has been "fixed". For now they have formulas to "test", but not a fix. I assume the test will included many months of time to sink in and also simulate 500 or so games played just for starters? Seems like these problems don't manifest until time and plays have passed? Any fix needs to be accomplished via many months of successful production AND USE or it is only a test.

    #7 10 months ago

    Laughable.

    #8 10 months ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    Why doesn’t JJP just move to Spooky play fields.

    My TNA had pooling around the slingshot posts, not sure Spooky has magic nobody else has figured out either.

    #9 10 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    My TNA had pooling around the slingshot posts, not sure Spooky has magic nobody else has figured out either.

    They have...not a single RaM has pooling

    #10 10 months ago
    Quoted from phalcon_2600:

    On the last Kaneda’s pinball podcast he was the first to break the story that going forward Mirco playfeilds will have new added quality control procedures. There will be an area, it would be under the apron where they will screw down an indicator. This will be something like a star post. It was said Mirco has also changed or updated their clear coat formula going forward.
    Hmmm... wasn’t chipping and pooling a problem way back with pirates and Wonka? Thought the clear formula had already been changed. Anyway, this indicator post is supposed to make it easy for Mirco to identify if a playfeild is going to be a bad one, the kind that will pool and chip around the posts before it is sent to JJP. Opinions??? What do you think of this? Do you think this will resolve the JJP pooling and chipping issue?

    Does this new 'quality control' look for completely missing artwork? Like the TZ Door panel text?

    #11 10 months ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Does this new 'quality control' look for completely missing artwork? Like the TZ Door panel text?

    There was missing artwork on Quicksilver playfields as well.

    #12 10 months ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    They have...not a single RaM has pooling

    Yeah the early T&As were pretty crappy but they fixed that right quick

    #13 10 months ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    They have...not a single RaM has pooling

    Oh that's good, was disappointing on my TNA. Playfield was nice otherwise.

    #14 10 months ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    They have...not a single RaM has pooling

    What's the new clear formula?
    Asking for a friend who runs a playfield production company.

    #15 10 months ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Does this new 'quality control' look for completely missing artwork? Like the TZ Door panel text?

    Quoted from bluespin:

    There was missing artwork on Quicksilver playfields as well.

    Same people that QC'd the Meteor playfields from CPR.

    #16 10 months ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    Same people that QC'd the Meteor playfields from CPR.

    Okay, I laughed. Good reply.

    #17 10 months ago

    How can restored playfield never have chipping or pooling?

    It’s not only the clear. It’s a mix of modern print, bad quality on wood and a robot putting clear on?

    You should see my Iron Maiden playfield

    #18 10 months ago

    so they wait until years of problems build up to TRY to fix the problem?? this is comical.

    #19 10 months ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    Same people that QC'd the Meteor playfields from CPR.

    XD That snaffu cost me a month of sundays to fix up. Thx to coyote for helping! Would have turned out pretty ugly without his decals.

    Wish I would have noticed that before buying one haha

    #20 10 months ago
    Quoted from djd9617:

    XD That snaffu cost me a month of sundays to fix up. Thx to coyote for helping! Would have turned out pretty ugly without his decals.
    Wish I would have noticed that before buying one haha

    Jeez. I missed this whole subject. I sold my Meteor a couple of years ago or I might have been in the middle of it.

    #21 10 months ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Funny how many times this problem has been "fixed". For now they have formulas to "test", but not a fix...

    I was thinking the same thing. What's the criteria for pass/fail? Zero pooling? A little pooling OK? Maybe no chipping but some pooling OK? And it puts some of the acceptance criteria burden on JJP to decide rather than Mirco. And someone at JJP is going to have a lot of pressure to get units out the door and pay the bills. Who's responsible down the road if there's an issue? I can see a lot of finger pointing happening.

    #22 10 months ago

    oops, double post

    #23 10 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Oh that's good, was disappointing on my TNA. Playfield was nice otherwise.

    Hey Aurich, just got my RAM 1 week ago and the PF is stunning. Could be the nicest PF I've had on any game. My CPR Centaur PF being a close second.

    #24 10 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Yeah the early T&As were pretty crappy but they fixed that right quick

    I had TNA #87 and it was perfect. The problem was later than that sort of mid-run, and then rectified.

    My new R&M playfield is by far the nicest PF finish I've seen in a NiB game in the last 5 years. It makes my Aug. 2020 manufactured DP playfield look like it was made out of cardboard and balsa wood in comparison.

    #25 10 months ago

    So the QC technique is to screw a post down on each playfield?
    What happens when you lift the post?
    What happens when its been hit a number of times?

    To win back consumer confidence why not:-

    -QC/destruction test a GnR PF from each new batch.
    -Timestamp / video document the test results.
    -Upload to Mirco website for viewing.

    #26 10 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    My TNA had pooling around the slingshot posts, not sure Spooky has magic nobody else has figured out either.

    Spooky and AP use Bader now. That appears to be the difference between them and the companies having playfield issues.

    #27 10 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Spooky and AP use Baden now. That appears to be the difference between them and the companies having playfield issues.

    I'm not familiar with Baden, is that a company or a product?

    I think my TNA was #75 if I'm remembering correctly. I sold it when I was downsizing my pinball collection to make space for another project, and it's one of the few games that I've let go that I still genuinely miss. No issues aside from the pooling around the slingshot posts. But still, glad to hear that's fixed, it did bother me. Was always worried if I tried to take the posts off something would chip.

    Dang, now I want to play TNA lol.

    Anyways, put me in the camp of "this has been an issue for years and you're just now announcing a fix?" Is this really that crazy of a problem? Pinball was done for a long time without this issue. Did all the clear formulas change?

    #28 10 months ago

    Company.

    I believe stern and mirco do direct print while Bader and CPR do screen print for the most part.

    #29 10 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Did all the clear formulas change?

    The ink is being lifted off the wood, so job #1 would be to get a new printer, that uses new ink, that actually stays adhered to the playfield.

    Because large format printers are $$$$$$, people are reluctant to replace them.

    #30 10 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The ink is being lifted off the wood, so job #1 would be to get a new printer, that uses new ink, that actually stays adhered to the playfield.
    Because large format printers are $$$$$$, people are reluctant to replace them.

    That would make sense for sections of the playfield lifting and delaminating, but I wouldn't think would be a factor with the pooling. At least on my TNA there was no sign the ink was shifting underneath, the clear just seemed soft and like it was bulging up under the pressure of the star posts.

    I have no info to base any suspicions on, but I always figured the pressure of keeping lines moving was making companies not wait for the clear to properly cure before assembling.

    #31 10 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    I have no info to base any suspicions on, but I always figured the pressure of keeping lines moving was making companies not wait for the clear to properly cure before assembling.

    Cure time cannot be the issue. JJP playfields have to cross an ocean before they get to JJP. More than enough time to cure.

    #32 10 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    I have no info to base any suspicions on, but I always figured the pressure of keeping lines moving was making companies not wait for the clear to properly cure before assembling.

    Even if you use the cheapest 2pac clear, it cures in a day (fingernail hardness test in a month)

    If cure time really was an issue, they have had years to switch to UV clear. Two tanning bed bulbs will make it 100% cured, 100% hardened in 10 seconds.

    But even the best clearcoat can't help if the post pressure is pulling the ink layers from the wood.

    Nothing will be fixed until they run enough playfields on the old printer to pay it off. Then they can switch to a proper unit.

    #33 10 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The ink is being lifted off the wood, so job #1 would be to get a new printer, that uses new ink, that actually stays adhered to the playfield.
    Because large format printers are $$$$$$, people are reluctant to replace them.

    If the printer/ink is the issue, howcome half of the JJP playfields have been perfectly fine?

    #34 10 months ago
    Quoted from ViperVS:

    If the printer/ink is the issue, howcome half of the JJP playfields have been perfectly fine?

    Mirco has a 50% success rate.

    #35 10 months ago
    Quoted from ViperVS:

    If the printer/ink is the issue, howcome half of the JJP playfields have been perfectly fine?

    There is no way for us end users to know why.

    Could be the ink from a brand new tank is fine for the first few days or ink formula could have quietly changed from the actual manufacture, or ....who knows?

    But one thing you do know is that you never see the clearcoat lift the ink from the wood on a new silkscreened playfield.

    #36 10 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Mirco has a 50% success rate.

    I think it’s more like a 50% failure rate.

    #37 10 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    There is no way for us end users to know why.
    Could be the ink from a brand new tank is fine for the first few days or ink formula could have quietly changed from the actual manufacture, or ....who knows?
    But one thing you do know is that you never see the clearcoat lift the ink from the wood on a new silkscreened playfield.

    Wow, that you Vid??

    Maybe 2020 is starting to turn around, Vid is back!

    #38 10 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Cure time cannot be the issue. JJP playfields have to cross an ocean before they get to JJP. More than enough time to cure.

    Also to speak to “cure time is not the issue” JJP GnR was set to launch in the spring in time to show at Texas Pinball Festival. Then the launch was delayed by covid. So the Mirco playfeilds on those first JJP GnR playfeilds had over 6 months cure time. Now that they have been shipped out we get reports back of pooling and chipping on some of these first games. So I don’t think this is a problem that cureing time will solve.

    12
    #39 10 months ago
    Quoted from Fytr:

    Maybe 2020 is starting to turn around, Vid is back!

    I am the hardened crust on a total shltpile of a year.

    #40 10 months ago

    Adhesion issues are very often a surface issue.

    #41 10 months ago
    Quoted from jj44114:

    Adhesion issues are very often a surface issue.

    Exactly.

    If the ink does not stick to the wood surface, the clear can pull the whole whole thing up.

    mirco (resized).jpg
    #42 10 months ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    There was missing artwork on Quicksilver playfields as well.

    I believe you are talking about the two keylines missing from around the two star rollovers.

    If you recall, Crispin's QS play field had been "restored" but looked black instead of dark green. This "restored" black color hid the keylines.

    Once I pointed this out, Mirco made the corrections.

    However, there is a name in small cursive letters that was placed behind the upper right pop bumper on the original Quicksilver boards. That small name that is black was also overlooked in the reproduction play field.

    #43 10 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Did all the clear formulas change?

    I have read where Mirco uses a ceramic clear coat. Don't ask me what ceramic clear is other than some nano stuff. I have not had much luck with Google in my efforts to find out what it is. Instead, Google is covered up with all kinds of cars sites using the usual sales BS to convince you why you need to ceramic clear your car.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ceramic+clear+coat&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS894US894&oq=ceramic+clear+coat&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l4j0i457j0l2.8875j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    #44 10 months ago
    Quoted from phalcon_2600:

    So the Mirco playfeilds on those first JJP GnR playfeilds had over 6 months cure time.

    Sorry. I'm confused. Were those just empty play fields sitting around curing before assembly? Or were these GnRs already assembled?

    Quoted from phalcon_2600:

    So I don’t think this is a problem that cureing time will solve.

    I bought a repro Quicksilver play field from Mirco. It took several months for it to finally pass the fingernail test. Now it is as hard as a rock.

    #45 10 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Mirco has a 50% success rate.

    Sadly 100% asshole rate.

    #46 10 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Company.
    I believe stern and mirco do direct print while Baden and CPR do screen print for the most part.

    It's Bader. Not Baden.

    #47 10 months ago

    Sorry. Thanks for the correction

    #48 10 months ago

    I don't know if anyone has asked this question or given theory. Is there any way the shipping over sea messes with the playfields while they are curing?

    I'm not really seeing how this QC measure will really help or not.

    #49 10 months ago
    Quoted from RyanStl:

    Is there any way the shipping over sea messes with the playfields while they are curing?

    Doubtful. Stern has the same issues and I’m pretty sure all theirs are from USA.

    #50 10 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Doubtful. Stern has the same issues and I’m pretty sure all theirs are from USA.

    Yeah, I guess plenty of other products are shipped and deal with the salty air and make it here fine.

    There are 68 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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