(Topic ID: 7653)

New member introduction and Bad Girls pinball problems.

By fatality83

12 years ago


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  • 34 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by alistaircg
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#1 12 years ago

Hello everyone, I am a new member. My name is Chris. I live in york pa. My arcade consists of a Mortal Kombat 2 dedicated cabinet with 6 in 1 switcher installed with all the Mk's (1-4) on it. An area 51/maximum force dedicated cabinet. A sharpshooter in a Dynamo Cabinet. I recently just bought my first pin Bad Girls. I got it for real cheap because it needs some work. I am hoping yall can help me with it.

First I will apologize for my lack of understanding the terminology revolving around pinballs. I am new to all of this and am learning as I go.

The problem initially was, when you turn on the pinball, some of the lights come on but many do not. The speakers would pop and two things underneath the play field made clicking sound. Words on the score screen were jumbled and illegible. I pulled out the main cpu board and found there to be some battery corrosion and several possible broken traces. I desoldered the battery and ran wires to bypass the broken traces on the board. I than tested the board out and much to my suprise, it worked. The display said bad girls and I was able to credit up the game and music started playing. The solenoids that shoot the ball out into the plunger ramp were not working but if I manually placed the ball in the ramp and shot the ball into play everything seemed to be working great. I was a very happy man. Here is a video of it in action when it worked.

I than pulled out the pcb to clean the corrosion off with 50/50 mix of white vinegar and water. I scrubbed it good with a brush. I than reinstalled the pcb and it worked for some time and than started doing this.

I checked all my solder connections and everything seems to be ok. No idea what happened. I can't get it to work now. Any ideas what I can do?

#2 12 years ago

CPU board has died (many things can cause this), that thing you unplugged to stop it resetting is a reset board. This is supposed to reset the game if it detects that the CPU isn't running.

What are the voltages looking like actually at the CPU board? On the few socketed chips, is there moisture in the socket? Did you FULLY dry the board out after cleaning it. Disconnect the driver board, does it still reset?

#3 12 years ago
Quoted from system11:

CPU board has died (many things can cause this), that thing you unplugged to stop it resetting is a reset board. This is supposed to reset the game if it detects that the CPU isn't running.

What are the voltages looking like actually at the CPU board? On the few socketed chips, is there moisture in the socket? Did you FULLY dry the board out after cleaning it. Disconnect the driver board, does it still reset?

I can't get no readings. I unplugged the J-1 connector where it plugs into the cpu board and hooked a multi meter up to it and grounded the other end. It is showing 0 on all the connections. The socketed chips are dry and so is the board. I used a hair dryer to dry the board on a low heat taking care not to overheat any of the components. I reseated the rom chips. I disconnected the driver board like you said. The only difference that made was the two solenoids that were underneath the playfield that were clicking in tone with the speakers have now stopped clicking. Alls that is happening now is the speaker still pops and the display cuts in and out like it did in the video.

#4 12 years ago

I found this for sale. Would I be able to just buy this and swap out the two rom chips into it and be set? http://www.ksarcade.net/cpus-mpus/gottlieb-system-80b-mpu.html

#5 12 years ago
Quoted from fatality83:

battery corrosion and several possible broken traces.

There's probably more Battery corrosion hidden in between the
components.The problem is most likely your MPU due to the
battery corrosion it's an evil enemy to MPU's,CPU's and can cause
weird things to happen.

Quoted from fatality83:

I found this for sale. Would I be able to just buy this and swap out the two rom chips into it and be set? http://www.ksarcade.net/cpus-mpus/gottlieb-system-80b-mpu.html

The roms are included with MPU you just have to let them know which
game they are for.K's arcade does fix boards but since it's a battery
corrosion problem they most likely will not touch it.

#6 12 years ago

Welcome as a new member,fatality83-Sounds like a project,your in good hands with pinmike and system 11 helping you,also be systematic and do 1 or maybe 2 things at a time to evaluate the progress being made.

#7 12 years ago

It's times like this (new owner vs Gottlieb system 80) that Clay's decision to pull all his guides down really stings. At this point I'd be referring you to his System 80 repair guide which was excellent, but the resource is no longer available. On the other hand, there's a good guide on the pinwiki which you need to start reading. In short there are quite a few possible problems on Gottliebs of this age, and it might not necessarily be the CPU board at fault.

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80

You need to double check the +5v before you go spending a few hundred dollars on a new MPU board. You need to be measuring the voltage at J1 while it's plugged into the MPU board, you should be able to measure this from the back of the connector housing. Doing this means you're measuring it under load which is more representative of normal running. Measure between the gnd and +5 pins of J1 (it carries two of each) - you need to see 5.0 - 5.1v DC.

It's definitely getting some voltage, or you wouldn't be seeing the effects of the reset board.

#8 12 years ago

I do have the system 80 guides if you want to take that route.
PM me your email address and i will send them to you.

#9 12 years ago
Quoted from system11:

You need to double check the +5v before you go spending a few hundred dollars on a new MPU board. You need to be measuring the voltage at J1 while it's plugged into the MPU board, you should be able to measure this from the back of the connector housing. Doing this means you're measuring it under load which is more representative of normal running. Measure between the gnd and +5 pins of J1 (it carries two of each) - you need to see 5.0 - 5.1v DC.

It's definitely getting some voltage, or you wouldn't be seeing the effects of the reset board.

I will test this tomorrow when I get home and get back to you. The multi meter should be on dc volts right? Do you know of the top two sets of wires are the positive or the negative on the j-1

#10 12 years ago

I have seen this machine being serviced by TNT, maybe you could try them out

f a t a l i t yyyyyyyyyyyyyy

#11 12 years ago

The meter should be on DC volts, yes. I think the upper two pins are ground, lower two are +5. Doesn't matter which way around you measure them though - if you get it wrong the meter will just say -5.x v, you'll still know what the reading is. If you've got a good reading there, based on your current experience with pinball machine repair you've got two options:

1) Use it to really get your hands dirty and learn - you may make mistakes along the way, it'll take a while.
2) Buy a new MPU and see if it fixes it.

It's essential to establish the +5 is good though - too high and you could fry your new MPU anyway, too low and the current one might not be faulty at all, although my current guess is that it HAS failed. Never hook new/repaired CPU board up to a machine until you've verified the +5v.

#12 12 years ago
Quoted from jimjam:

I have seen this machine being serviced by TNT, maybe you could try them out

f a t a l i t yyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Yea I saw his videos before. What do you think about what he did? Some people said he was waisting machines that could have been repaired or at least parted out. Others say they are his and he can do as he pleases. Watching his other videos though he seems like a pretty cool guy. I actually thought about stopping by there sometimes as it is about 2 1/2 hours away.

#13 12 years ago
Quoted from system11:

1) Use it to really get your hands dirty and learn - you may make mistakes along the way, it'll take a while.
2) Buy a new MPU and see if it fixes it.

It's essential to establish the +5 is good though - too high and you could fry your new MPU anyway, too low and the current one might not be faulty at all, although my current guess is that it HAS failed. Never hook new/repaired CPU board up to a machine until you've verified the +5v.

Here is the results of my test. All it does is hum when I touch the probes on the board. Here is the wire connections since someone spliced on a new J-1 connector. Bottom wire is hooked up to the white with blue strip. The one above that is hooked up to a wire that is white with blue strip and the top two wires are hooked up to separate all white wires.

#14 12 years ago

I'll take a look when I get back from work again. Humming is wrong, I would suggest the meter isn't set correctly. If you post a picture I can tell you, but I can't view videos or hear sound at work.

#15 12 years ago

I had the meter set to dc I believe 200. The black probe is in the common spot and the other is in the adc spot on the meter. I wonder if my meter is good or not. Maybe my mulit meter went bad?

#16 12 years ago

Since you are only anticipating 5v, you should set the meter to 20. Just good practice - set it one step higher than what you think you will be measuring.

Honestly, if you are just trying to confirm the 5v is making it to the board, I would've simply measured across capacitor C1. It's the big-ish cap right by the power supply connector.

Black lead on one leg, red lead on other (won't hurt anything, you'll just get a negative reading if they are backwards so switch them around). When powered up, you should see your +5v at this capacitor.

Put that board back in there and get a good ground plane established, then see what you measure that way. I suspect you will find a good 5v. The hum you are getting could just be some weird grounding issue since you still have the speakers hooked up apparently.

#17 12 years ago
Quoted from examiner:

Honestly, if you are just trying to confirm the 5v is making it to the board, I would've simply measured across capacitor C1. It's the big-ish cap right by the power supply connector.

Black lead on one leg, red lead on other (won't hurt anything, you'll just get a negative reading if they are backwards so switch them around). When powered up, you should see your +5v at this capacitor.

Put that board back in there and get a good ground plane established, then see what you measure that way. I suspect you will find a good 5v. The hum you are getting could just be some weird grounding issue since you still have the speakers hooked up apparently.

Alright when I get home I will put the board back in and try this. I wonder if there is a way to test to see if my multi meter is still good? It is a cheap harbor freight one and the last time I used it, something strange happened. I was testing an arcade game power supply with the game on. As soon as I touched the probes on the power supply the game shut off and wouldn't start for about 3 minutes. Not sure if something shorted out or what

#18 12 years ago
Quoted from fatality83:

I wonder if there is a way to test to see if my multi meter is still good?

Set it to measure AC - push the probes into a wall outlet. You should see 110-120v.

Set it to measure DC - grab any battery and put the leads across the end. 9v, 1.5v, etc?

I assume there is a 9v battery in your MM - my experience with a dying battery is the DMM will still work - but I'll get crap readings. So change the battery before you give up on the meter.

#19 12 years ago
Quoted from examiner:

Set it to measure AC - push the probes into a wall outlet. You should see 110-120v.

Set it to measure DC - grab any battery and put the leads across the end. 9v, 1.5v, etc?

I assume there is a 9v battery in your MM - my experience with a dying battery is the DMM will still work - but I'll get crap readings. So change the battery before you give up on the meter.

Thanks I will try that with the battery before I use it to test my pin. I will let you guys know what happens when I test off C1

#20 12 years ago
Quoted from fatality83:

Thanks I will try that with the battery before I use it to test my pin.

Ha! Nobody ever wants to jam their probes into a wall outlet. I guess our parents taught us well! (it's actually no more risky than using your DMM anyplace else....)

a battery will work just fine for testing your DC voltage. Good luck!

#21 12 years ago
Quoted from examiner:

Ha! Nobody ever wants to jam their probes into a wall outlet. I guess our parents taught us well! (it's actually no more risky than using your DMM anyplace else....)

a battery will work just fine for testing your DC voltage. Good luck!

hahaha yea you are right. It's not that I don't trust your information it's just that, I remember when I was a little boy sticking a key in an electrical outlet while my older sister told me chris, don't do it, don't do it. Well I did it, and it hurt and now the only thing that goes into electrical outlets is plugs. HAHA

#22 12 years ago

If you measure a battery and it's still not working, I just looked at the video and I think you might find the red probe is in the wrong place, it's plugged into the high amps input. The one underneath is the right place.

#23 12 years ago
Quoted from system11:

If you measure a battery and it's still not working, I just looked at the video and I think you might find the red probe is in the wrong place, it's plugged into the high amps input. The one underneath is the right place.

Yea you were right. I just got home and switched it around. I tested off the C-1 Capacitor. It is showing 4.6 volts

#24 12 years ago

That's too low, and it's probably due to bad grounds which are very common on System 80. Did you get the repair guide from anyone yet? Also that pinwiki link I posted a day or so ago covers the problem. When you've got a stable 5v feed at the board, then it's time to decide if it's dead or not.

#25 12 years ago
Quoted from system11:

That's too low, and it's probably due to bad grounds which are very common on System 80. Did you get the repair guide from anyone yet? Also that pinwiki link I posted a day or so ago covers the problem. When you've got a stable 5v feed at the board, then it's time to decide if it's dead or not.

Yes I got a bunch of stuff from one of the members. System 80 in in there and I assume what I will need? Yes I remember reading something where it said to solder a wire to the cpu board and a wire to the sound board and run them somewhere and ground them. Is that what you are talking about?

#26 12 years ago

just checked the voltage at the end of the j1 connector. 4.6-4.7 volts

#27 12 years ago

can I just turn the pot up on the power supply? What should the voltage be around at the j1 connection?

#28 12 years ago

I noticed when I pull either of the slam switches away from the side, the screen say slam switch closed and says that until I let the switch go. Not sure if that helps any or not.

#29 12 years ago

I tried adjusting the voltage up a little on the pot so it is a little over 5 volts. The game still does the same thing.

#30 12 years ago

As Examiner said... Take your leads across C1(Mpu) - red on positive and black on negative and adjust the pot to 5.10v...

Something is definitely an issue because the led on the soundboard should be blinking.

I can't stress it enough... ground mods are mandatory. This especially holds true for System 80B pins: like you Bad Girls....

#31 12 years ago

I am not sure what ground mods to do. I have seen several different versions. Some require soldering wires onto the sound board,power supply cpu and running them underneath and grounding them somewhere. All the power supply's shown do no look like mine. Mine has a heat sink and doesnt look like a bare pcb like theirs does. I am taking my cpu board to have any corrosion left removed and any damaged components replaced. While it is out, I would like to do the ground mods. Can anyone give me a link that shows my particular setup.

#32 12 years ago
Quoted from fatality83:

While it is out, I would like to do the ground mods. Can anyone give me a link that shows my particular setup.

If a member has sent you the repair guides you will find the ground mods explained complete with pics of it in those guides. I have the guides if you still need them send me your e-mail address and I'll send them to you.

#33 12 years ago

I will have to look again. I didn't see anything about the ground mods. It was a bunch of stuff. I only looked at the system 80 file.

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