(Topic ID: 169477)
Linked Games
Houdini
American Pinball, 2017-
Tales of the Arabian Nights
Williams, 1996
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Allyn, WA
Quoted from MinusWorlds:We need to do some homework and find out who owns the rights to the Houdini name. There has to be an estate or something. They can file an appeal and challenge the Trademark
This company in ontario canada is using the houdini name. I would imagine they are paying some sort of license
https://www.sidefx.com/
this website may know something too:
http://www.houdini.com/en/
Quoted from jgentry:I'm not sure how you could own any of them. That's just my opinion though, everyone has a right to their own.
I have fond nostalgia for wcs94, remember playing it when it was new, long before being in the hobby and knew who any designers were. 5 years ago I longed to own one, I wouldn't want to own one anymore.
Quoted from mrbillishere:however I was told that a similar application that is further along in the process - I believe she said it belonged to Gamesys - is heading towards rejection due to the same, conflicting, prior registration.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Sadly, in this country, a Brand new Corporation, is a completely new Legal entity, and they do get to start over from scratch.
I once worked for a fiber optic company that split it's divisions into A & B for each product line, but then formed yet another company with a completely new name. I'm pretty sure they did that to wipe the slate clean of all the bad product issues they had in the past. It's a shame companies aren't forced to be more public. If old company has these managers running it, and the new company has the same people, then people can do the math.
Quoted from MinusWorlds:Cliff notes. Feel free to add anything I've missed pls:
Very similar design layout to MG
JPOP was asking about Houdini licensing 5 years ago
When dgarrett visited American Pinball it was eluded to him that was the case
Affiliation with JPOP's lawyerI think that's it
you're forgetting that scott goldberg worked at zizzle
Quoted from Rascal_H:The statement says the pics are new
Has to be, there was never more than 4 cabinets in the shop.
Also, there are now 2 buttons for each flipper, originals only had 1. I imagine either he is planning on adding extra flippers (with separate controls), or more likely magna-saves since he loves those so much. Oh also those cabinets look like stock williams (not super high angle). Probably so they aren't buying custom sized glass. This is bizarro now that I'm comparing.
"There is this wild loop-de-loop shot unlike anything I’ve ever seen in pinball before"
If they took my file off pinballmakers, I'm going to laugh
http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/images/thumb/d/d3/Loop_da_loop_ramp.jpg/200px-Loop_da_loop_ramp.jpg
Quoted from dannunz:Looks like my never before seen ramp on TFTC lol
Quoted from Mitch:Tftc doesn't have a upsidown loop
Right, it has a loopback (180, not 360)
image-12[1] (resized).jpg
Only game I've ever seen with a complete loop is a gottlieb gold wings
Quoted from Mitch:?? You have a custom made loop ramp on your game? Pics?
It's not in a game yet, it's a work in progress. Also playing around with a vert loopback ramp:
Quoted from frolic:Until people are playing the game, this was the state of Magic Girl. John was always able to obfuscate the state of the game with much of the artwork and shiny lights.
I would hope a major company dumping money into a project wouldn't put full trust into John, but stranger things have happened.
Now that we have good photos, anyone notice that they put the text "BELIEVE" upside down on the top of the backbox so that it reflects on the mirrored ball?
I'm mostly curious how obscured the right half of the screen is going to be with that tall building sitting in front of it
Quoted from radium:If I paid Zidware for MG and AP gives me an MG, I say thank you and continue my suit against Zidware.
I would imagine they wouldn't just "Give you" a magic girl, there will likely be a contract to be signed that states you won't pursue legal action against JPOP, or any of his affiliations including american pinball. Hell, most companies make you sign a contract when you get laid off in order to collect severance so they ensure you won't try to sue them afterwards.
Quoted from benheck:His spoon-less pop bumpers for instance were quite clever
I hate spoons, always going out of adjustment (same can be said for leaf switches, which is why my project is using cherry switches with extended arms). I had thought of an idea where the bottom ring would be one contact point, and the ring would be another. The metal ball creates the jumper to complete the circuit.
Quoted from transprtr4u:If AP pulls it off wondering if they would make some of this home brew pins ? Good outlet for the builders company and the pinball buyers! It would be great to be able to purchase a Doom or Buffy the Vampire Slayer...
Guess time will tell !
I'd like to see that as well. The wrath of olympus project could potentially become real (other than the small build by owners in the living room on a weekend). No license to deal with, proven design.
Quoted from jazzmaster:Imagine the design hours lost in solidwords and on waiting for a 3D printer to churn out a new and improved star post
I really hope that was just him testing the waters with 3d printing (what could be simpler than a star post?). If he really intended to 3d print star posts (which I suppose would hold up ok), seems silly. Maybe he was just jealous of how many parts spooky managed to 3d print on AMH and this was his way to say "hey I 3d print too, look over here!". Afterall, he also shoved a rug underneath magic girl after seeing one under big lebowski.
Quoted from frolic:So what are the odds they will not have any playable games at Expo?
Magic girl better be playable if cointaker is picking up games (s)?
I say Houdini plays, code is very basic (like default framework on mission pinball basic). Code updates could easily be patched online later just like Stern does. If they don't have at least that, they can have all the funding and designers in the world, most buyers will be very reluctant to hand over money.
go read pinball news:
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2016/index.html
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Scott said right now wasn't the time for John Popadiuk to be at Pinball Expo. John is a consultant, "nothing more, nothing less", he said. Any issues relating to delivery of Magic Girl and other Zidware titles will be addressed by Zidware.
Turning to Houdini, Scott said the intention is to have the game ready to deliver by the end of Q2 2017. He said there's no connection between Houdini and Magic Girl, and Houdini will have its own cabinet design, separate from the Zidware cabinet.
Joe then talked about the hardware American Pinball will be using, saying it's a PC-based system using their own custom boards.
Scott said he got into pinball from working with John Popadiuk at a toy company. Dhaval talked about his history in gaming electronics and experience in international markets.
Joe said their strategy is definitely for their games to be operated, and that's how they are designing it, although they are very conscious of the home collector market. There will only be one version of Houdini, although they might have a limited edition collector version of future titles.
Joe continued, saying he came to the company last week and took over a 75% complete playfield design for Houdini to which he needs to add more features and adjust some of the shots.
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That last part sounds like John did a bad job of laying out shots yet again, which is why Joe Balcer was brought in to fix his mistakes (and why Houdini is now 9 months behind)
walking into that room at expo was just... weird. It was literally a bunch of printed artwork sitting on tables against the walls, and then this playfield sitting lit up on some sort of box with a sheet, and the guys standing around observing everyone's reaction to it. I took a quick look, realized how it didn't look like a playfield that could flip, and walked out. What a sad reveal compared to the rest of expo.
Quoted from pinballwil:Spooky can only make good and funny machines, but they still look like 1985 machines
Yes, so many machines in 1985 that had jump ramps and servos, and an elevator that slowly rises not driven by solenoid, and open source code, and freely downloadable cabinet and playfield artwork, and 3d printed parts (also open source and downloadable in case yours breaks 20 years from now). name a single manufacturer that has ever done any of those things.
4 weeks later
Quoted from Taxman:Even their Facebook page went silent. They were quick to reply there before, post something there and see if you get a response.
last post was from october 20th, stating
"Following expo we wanted to confirm for everyone that we are in fact refreshing the cabinet design and playfield for our Houdini Machine and will be sharing some new pictures in the next few weeks.".
It's exactly 4 weeks today, must be using the JPOP calendar, it has 37 extra leap year days.
Quoted from benheck:Don't forget the Z's reduce metal strength and add CNC time. It's not an aircraft, you're not trying to reduce weight.
Add cutting time yes absolutely. Reducing strength probably not as much as you think. If it was a square cut with radii in the corners, it would be the same strength. Z-shapes could possibly distribute forces at weird angles (But a simulation in solidworks would tell you for sure, something John also probably didn't know how to do). Shape cutouts are cool for surfaces that are normally visible, under the playfield not so much. Clearly John never read or created a product cosmetic spec. This goes the same for his hangups on other pinball cabinet with unpainted metal vents in the back.
2 weeks later
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:The game had potential, although the scope of redesign may be prohibitive.
This may become yet another long running joke in the pinball world, the famous "Houdini disappearing act".
Certainly disappointing based on the opportunity, but I do hope original investors, many which I do know, obtain their MG game someday in consequence.
If I had to GUESS what's going to happen next:
1. Because JPOP rushed houdini effectively making it unplayable (and generally lied how pinball progress works), AP won't honor the MG playfield builds (and what would be the point if they won't work).. they may have already started the process of building new playfields, but that's as far as the build will go.
2. AP dumps the cabinets/playfields, chalks it up as a loss. Tells John to pick them up and do whatever he wants with them but he can't store them at AP. John continues to build up the premise that's he's still trying to build them for customers.
3. Joe Balcer treats houdini as a concept playfield, and tweaks everything to turn it into a working pinball.. AP moves forward as a new pinball startup with Joe Balcer as a reputable pinball designer, and tries to scrub JPOP from their reputation.
I don't imagine you'll hear from AP until something is ready and playable, they already have a black eye so they want to make sure the next reveal is worthy of showing. They said 9 months, so don't expect to see anything until next July.
1 week later
They may have took the website down until they're ready for the next announcement. Another possibility, John worked on it and vindictively took it down after a fallout? After all, we know John is good at taking websites down (and facebook pages, and blogs).
2 weeks later
Quoted from mrgone:Has anyone here contacted terry at pinball life and just asked him what's going on with the ap fliers?
When I was there Friday, he said they gave him a stack of flyers cards and asked him nicely to send them out with orders. He doesn't seem to have any affiliation with them whatsoever. It's no different than when Marco shoves upcoming pinball show flyers in orders.
Quoted from Rarehero:Houdini will never ship
probably will, don't think Balcer is there to just twiddle his thumbs, nor is the programmer they hired.
Quoted from Rarehero:no one who is paid up on a Zidware game will ever see it get made from AP
100% correct on any zidware title
Quoted from benheck:What carrot will he dangle in front of the next investor?
pussycat bowling? Or space mission? Or any kitchie atomic retro 60's theme he can slap onto his tall cabinet with plexiglass backbox with integrated speaker and LCD mounted in the back of the playfield?
1 week later
Has AP created some bad PR? Yes..
Have they taken any pre-orders or screwed anyone? No.
Knowing what pinside knows about john, you can imagine the mound of info they've discovered since expo. While they haven't officially cut ties with john, it's surely looking like that's likely.
When houdini finishes, it'll probably play good, and I'm sure it will sell. My hope is that they survive and the many homebrew projects floating around can finally get mass produced if the designers choose to do so
1 month later
3 weeks later
Quoted from rubberducks:There's no way they're anywhere near 92% now, anyway
If you figure Stern builds 15k games a year (Jody has said they build between 55-60 games a day), then that leaves 1300 pins for everyone not stern if they are at 92%
Spooky is up to what, one a day? that's 260
Heighway is ramping up, but they are still low numbers while they complete their factory.. maybe 50/month? 600/year
JJP probably easily sells 1,000/year between Woz and hobbit many many many editions
AP is just getting into the game
Dutch barely eeked out 50 games before the factory asked for more money
P3 hasn't started shipping as far as I know
So 1910 non-stern games, divided by the total of 16910, Stern is actually more like 89% of the market and slowly dropping as more companies take a bigger slice of the pie.
Quoted from rosh:As far as 'lighting bolts', there are none of those in the machine, nor will your find a 'Z', even in the 'spirit board' high score entry screen. The lack of a was not taken well by a particular parts guy with a Z in his name. It was pointed out, that even though you can see it, you can still enter it. So if you see a Z, its as not done by us Again, as a reminder, nothing that was done by John was kept, we started over from scratch, keeping nothing but the name.
As asked before, can the op please update the title. It's clear that THIS houdini title has nothing to do with JPOP.
5 months later
Quoted from toyotaboy:I hate spoons, always going out of adjustment (same can be said for leaf switches, which is why my project is using cherry switches with extended arms). I had thought of an idea where the bottom ring would be one contact point, and the ring would be another. The metal ball creates the jumper to complete the circuit.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-jpop-game-houdini-just-announced/page/35#post-3378733
Looks like Ben is using this concept for his mini pinball:
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