(Topic ID: 169477)

New Game Houdini? Just Announced by American Pinball.

By RickThorn

7 years ago


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  • 3,206 posts
  • 463 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by emkay
  • Topic is favorited by 70 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

10 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #2532 American pinball is advertising in pinball life orders Posted by DennisK (7 years ago)

Post #2768 Press Release from American Pinball before TPF 2017 Posted by unigroove (7 years ago)

Post #2820 video of game reveal at TPF Posted by Khabbi (7 years ago)

Post #2829 TPF gameplay video (short) Posted by Khabbi (7 years ago)

Post #2831 Photo of Houdini backbox/translite Posted by 1iblind (7 years ago)

Post #2839 more short Houdini gameplay video from TPF Posted by Khabbi (7 years ago)

Post #2841 Video of Houdini catapult toy in action Posted by Khabbi (7 years ago)

Post #2851 Price confirmed as $6995 from sources at TPF Posted by Khabbi (7 years ago)

Post #3006 A quick review of TPF reactions. Posted by rosh (7 years ago)

Post #3050 Some history of Houdini leading up to TPF from rosh Posted by rosh (7 years ago)


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#481 7 years ago
Quoted from chet218:

I can't believe so many people are SO affected by Kaneda

It is kind of amusing though, he can play with many pinsiders like puppets on a string. He seems to press all the right buttons.

That way he manages to get the attention he craves every time. Simply ignoring him would make him go away quite quickly.

#741 7 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

I tell you though I've seen enough hype to know that in reality if the game is good no one will care who they've partnered with. The golden ticket is to make a game that people will pine for, it thing will then sell even if they make it with illegal child labor in India.

This. If it's any good and priced below 7K it will sell very well. People are fed up with the ridiculous pricing strategy of the established producers - in any other market competition leads to lower prices, in pinball it seems to be the other way around.

#744 7 years ago
Quoted from skywalker:

Doubt it, there's always someone out there willing to take the risk

Will there be a risk? I can't imagine AP wants to use any kind of prepay/preorder strategy. I can even less imagine any pinhead would be stupid enough to ever prepay any pin again.

But then again it's a small miracle to me that people actually prepaid stuff in the past, that business model was always a complete no-go to me.

1 week later
#1874 7 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

I am not an entrepreneur but i don't understand how a million dollar outlay to JPOPs customers (and don't forget the vendors!) sells them more than a million dollars worth of Houdini. Stern probably doesn't pay it's game designers more than 200k per annum. It would be much much cheaper (and not have any JPOP stigma and possible expensive legal drama) to poach a Stern designer for 200k a year and it can't possibly cost more than 500k to build one design master/manufacturing prototype.
It makes zero sense to make zidware customers whole for a new venture. It's way more likely JPOP conned the American Pinball dudes with a box of lights just like he conned the pinside people.

It's actually not that stupid given this is a completely privately owned company. Of course it couldn't work if you have shareholders in it that demand quick return as they usually do.
If a designer, theoretically, is paid 200K at Stern AP would have to pay 300K minimum to get them to move to an unproven startup. And what would they have then? Most probably not Steve Ritchie or George Gomez but rather the second tier designers that are not really famous for pumping out jaw dropping designs. Good down to earth designers of course, but not mesmerizing ones. JPop managed to lure educated grown men into investing tens of thousands of dollars for games that could in no thinkable setting be produced profitably. So like him or not, there must be something special about his designs/visions. AP also have people on board that have proven to be able to work with him and turn is ideas into a product. And he is bringing 3 designs in different stages of completion plus the stuff he probably had in the pipeline for years (Houdini). If every game really would cost maybe 750K to develop, they already could have saved 500K each for MG & Houdini, 250K each for RAZA & AIW, so that's 1.5Million saved...money they can use to "make the old owners whole". Until the "whole making" part is achieved JPop might be working for free.
With most other designers (IF they managed to get one of them, huge IF) they would spend 300K p.a. and would have to start from scrap for the first, second, third and every other game. If it then takes them an optimistic 2 years to produce the first game they have spent 600K for the designer plus 750K for development of the game, so that's 1.35Million for a completely unproven risk as opposed to JPops designs everyone was slobbering over.
Of course this is complete BS as it's an incomplete calculation based on wild guesswork regarding the figures, but it might give you an idea of what could be APs motivation to collaborate with JPop.
The big question is what impact the Zidware disaster and Johns reputation will really have on sales of AP. Most collectors I know personally are not on any pinball forums and the ones active on forums are even below 10%. Do not underestimate how many collectors are busy people that have better things to do than spend hours reading lame carguments and kiddie fights on internet forums. If these guys go to their distributor and enjoy Houdini more than the machine next to it they will buy it. On the German forum I even had to explain what happened "back then" because some people didn't understand what the bitching was about when Houdini was announced.

There's a lot of ifs in this and it's a challenging plan to say the least, but bearing in mind that it takes the average company three years to break even it is possible that this might work if it was calculated conservatively.

#1938 7 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

From their FB page...hmm set up an appointment to not preorder?

I don't see the connection between "appointment" and "preorder"?

#1949 7 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

It is an assumption hence the ? Why else would you set up an appointment if it is not to discuss purchase?

I would guess for press people, potential distributors, stakeholders like the Zidware customers, suppliers, etc.
Can't imagine there will be any preordering or prepayment process.
I'm assuming (hoping) they will just make games and sell them off the shelf, you know, the good old straightforward trustworthy traditional business model.

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