Yeah,true..can't argue on that.

I have great respect for you Ben but this is one of the issues I have with Aurich. Its unprofessional conduct and it looks petty. Although, he has taken it to the maximum level with all competitors and you have not.

I hope you reconsider.

What evidence are you speaking of? The only thing JPop is listed as is the person to call in case of emergency! That does not make him an officer of the company. I don't understand how 1 + 0 = new evidence.

May I recommend light reading for the flight into Expo....

470118de60e8daa1580a84a6d05e6cdf (resized).jpg

Please stop this. Why is it that when people that are somehow involved in Pinball manufacturing are not allowed to speak their opinion without being regarded as petty ?? Those are just the people that know something more about Pinball manufacturing than the rest of us and I for one am very happy that there are still some that want to speak their own personal opinion about these matters.

I personally find it petty that it is not possible for some people to differentiate between professional envy and personal opinion. For instance: Aurich has always been very outspoken in his opinions, and now all of a sudden he is not allowed that anymore, just because he works on a Pinball machine ?? Also I find Ben's contributions very informative. Please do not drive these people away with posts like this.

I think it's a reasonable conclusion given all the facts that have been presented thus far. At a bare minimum, John appears to be the head designer at the new company. How could anyone look at Houdini photos and think otherwise. The game literally screams JPop!!!

Wow, crazy thread. Hate, love, hate, love.

People screaming mad about JPOP and and others in full support of AP. Here is my take.

I consider myself to be a fairly ethical/moral person.....worse than some, better than many....but I keep working on it.

If I started a new financial firm you could probably trust me..........unless I hired Bernie Madoff.....then you should run for the hills!

Hiring JPOP was a very morally questionable thing to do.....it just was. I'd love to see AP make some great machines and bring in some needed competition........but not with JPOP.

JPOP has only one road to redemption and that's to pay everyone back that he ripped off. That's it, no other way back. Until that happens first he should be persona-non-grata in the pinball world.

Someone said earlier in this thread "is the pinball hobby now an ethical hobby"? As if ethics should play no roll. Ethics should play a roll in every aspect of your life including your hobbies.......maybe even especially your hobbies since there is such a huge communal aspect involved.

You all can do what you want.....it's your life, but I'm not purchasing anything JPOP has a hand in until he redeems himself (see above).

P.S. I lost zero $ in JPOP's previous endevor.

From someone who did lose money, well stated.

It's called "conflict of interest" to people who live in the real world. And it has consequences in the real world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest

At least I know where your ethics now lie, as well as upvoters.

Except we are talking about opinions on a public forum - not decisions, influence, or any position of impact.

This is not conflict of interest - if anything someone can claim lack of impartiality- but that is something you evaluate based on the individual.

If you don't think opinions given influence decisions by others then good luck with that. What a ridiculous position.

Fixed

jpop (resized).jpg

Bullshit! Popadiuk allegedly perpetrated a fraud that cost creditors close to $1MM after using Ben Heck's involvement, time, marketing, and personal likeness on a BHZA pin without paying Ben a dime. If *ANYONE* on Pinside has a right to be critical of Popadiuk's recent actions, it is Ben.

brokeback pinside drama (resized).jpg

Ben is more than welcome to be critical of JPOP. However, AP is not the same thing. The situation is not black and white, no matter what many people here are trying to say. It's bad optics when someone associated with a company slags a competitor and it doesn't help anything or add to the overall knowledge of the situation. There are lots of people and thousands of posts that have already made the issues very well known, to put it mildly.

And more generally, there isn't enough info yet to know all the facts as opposed to the rampant speculation many here are using as fact. A simple wait and see post and approach would go a long way for everyone, but that isn't the pinside way.

Sorry for having a higher opinion of people than you do to not be sheep???

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at American Pinball …..

Interesting to see so many still separating JPOP from American Pinball as if they we're not the same. What is it that makes you believe its not a layer of artifice created by John to protect him from his past and to attempt to restart?

In my opinion, if you look at its parts, how it operates, and break down why anyone would reason that this is a good plan, it isn't. So why do it then? If you think about it its less of a 'risky' move and more of a 'desperate and manipulative move' it makes a lot more sense. I know there's only speculation in both directions, but I'm just not seeing anything that's makes more sense than the opposite of what AP is saying. However reality seems to have bent beyond shape and form before. So I'm asking to see if I'm missing something?

If your on the side of a legit AP what in the evidence that outweighs or explains the lack of logic?

Nice job! Now just change the quote from Tom Hanks to Kevin Kulek and it's perfect!

You know that didn't work so well for all the preorder people here who lost money on multiple pinball ventures.

Sorry, its not worth dumbing down the entire world to protect a handful of people from themselves. Ben Heck is a hell of a contributor long before he paired up with Charlie... and he'll continue to be a hell of a INFORMED, EDUCATED voice on matters in this hobby long after his association with Charlie. Thumbs down to you for being so sensitive and incapable of respecting people's ability for independent thought that you think knowledge and thought should be smothered to protect some that can't be held responsible for their own actions.

Maybe the a contributor to those preorder fiascos is because enough people DIDN'T listen to informed people. So let's have MORE people who have actually DONE THIS SHIT give their opinions... rather than try to snub them out for fear of influencing something improperly.

Non sequitor, cherry picking, and strawman. Nothing new here. There is no knowledge or thought smothered as it's already out there ad nauseum. Call me crazy for thinking all people should be held to the same standard without bias or playing favorites.

You are literally talking out of both sides of your mouth now too.
From this,

To this,

Sad.

That's just it... your beef isn't that any of that actually has happened... your beef is Ben has an association that could be used to argue there COULD be bias or favorites. When in reality, we have his entire posting history here to make our own judgement on it. Imagine that.. conclusions based on history and observation... instead of calling for people to shutup because lesser people MIGHT fail to be objective.

Strawman? Comical... the only topics in the exchange are the ones you introduced.. Ben, and pre-order buyers.

Please stop playing moral police and trying to tell long established people in the hobby what is acceptable insight or opinion to share.

I'm glad that you all know exactly what is going to happen with Houdini! Lot's of expert crystal ball readers here, LOL.

Imagine using more than just one's history and observation to discuss behaviour norms, standards and judgements. Now look who is setting the bar low for what's acceptable with the opinions of people. By all means keep contradicting yourself.

The rest of your post is what is comical.

Enough beating this dead horse for me.

It would appear John is more than just a "contract worker". He is listed on corporate documents meaning he was there with them from the start. Emergency contact or not, he was there. This wasn't a pinball company that formed then went looking to contract a designer. They are making MG machines out of the goodness of their hearts and out of the abundance of cash in their pocket books? I would never do that for an employee of mine. His/her problems are not my problems. In the case of their problems becoming my problems I would part ways with them. Not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars fixing their issue for them. Maybe the uber rich think differently than me. But as we stand it is a fancy box of blinking lights and JPop is the one behind it. There is nothing different here from the past to sway me back the other way. I hope that day comes though.

Wish I had the popcorn concession on this thread...

Being critical of JPOP isn't quite as unprofessional as spending 5 years and 1.5 million dollars making a blinking box of lights (that someone else has to help you finish)

I think that is the best take-away from this. The timing of their relationship. But this piece of info is not from the start of American Pinball - it's at least 6 months after the company incorporated. So we have a reference going back to March... but nothing concrete before that. So.. 'not recent' - but we can't determine when it started.

Ben's been in the trenches w/ Jpop...he of all people can absolutely talk shit about Jpop!!! First hand experience!!!

I hope this does not mean when they come to my house to assemble a Zombie Adventureland pinball machine kit they will be arguing. I want that to be a happy day and not cast a dark shadow over what should be a great time.

Is there some kind of form I can fill out to get permission to post my opinion? Do I have to submit a video application?

Sign away giving a shxt and no.

This is exactly what I wrote: you also cannot see the difference between conflict of interest and personal opinion. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion and not be belittled by someone who does not know them or their motives whatsoever.

Here ya go!

6dfbc373f55f9196ca19e76bfddd2ecb (resized).jpg

feedback (resized).png

Yeah you are right...lost my focus for a bit...but still think you should convince spooky to ship international.
Now i might end up with a box of lights instead of a Spooky title.
Listen to your conscience Ben...that would be the saddest thing.
I am your biggest european fan and i can't buy these pins?
It sucks
We don't even have the ben heck show over here,we have to buy ben heck show dvd's from shady people in a creepy alley.

Aurich, that's golden!

If JPop was not involved at all, AP would not be producing MG pinball machines.

Think about it... then tell me honestly that the better situation is for AP to not produce MG games.

There is nothing bad about making pinballs. Anyone who says there is hates pinball.

Way better than buying dvds of creepy people bending over ben heck in shady alleys...haha..

I'm hoping they will make a lot more magic girls as I love the artwork and idea behind the game. If they bought the ip from jpop I assume they can make more and sell them a lot cheaper than originally intended. Seems kind of absurd that only 24 machines would be made and never really seen by the public.

I agree. On one hand it would be nice for the few who ordered a MG to get one and call it done, fulfilling the promise of a super-limited game... on the other hand it would be fantastic to offer them up to anyone else who wants one. The more games out in the wild the better, IMO.

You do that and you're completely devaluing the very product that all those people shoveled over heaps of money for. If you really want the victims to be made whole, then you need to be willing to give them exactly what they bought into: an elitely exclusive game with insanely low production numbers.

Everyone is sending signals that they want to go to bat for those that lost money... then you gotta give them exactly what they gave money for.

They wouldn't be making Houdini either

Incorrect. I pre-ordered MG and RAZA, and am currently suing Jpop. No industry insider (who all knew/know what a flake Jpop is) said anything that might have deterred me. And I did check. I repeat- there were no informed people to listen to to warn us mugs away.

It was the silence of the lambs that did for me, therefore. They should have spoken up, for the good of the hobby/industry!

Thus, regarding Ben, whom I have huge respect for, for his modding work and pinball expertise, I WANT HIM to state frank views about Jpop. He is one of the best informed on this topic, and we need his input.

AP is OBVIOUSLY, SO VERY OBVIOUSLY, Jpop's attempt at manufacturing a Get Out Of Jail Free card for himself, to abrogate him of any responsibility for his dubious past. This will not happen. Jpop will be declared a bankrupt by the Court, and will receive punishment, however inappropriately minor. AP will not save him, as long as one litigant continues the legal action.

Jpop- actions have consequences, and that includes you, mate. You will not weasel out of this. I may have lost $25k, but the knowledge of this makes me smile

Oh, and I'm still waiting for AP to contact me about my free MG. Sadly not the car.

Isn't Houdini a cut-down MG?