LOL, could you imagine? or Believe?

It would probably be a good thing your location is not posted!

IMG_3529 (resized).JPG

IMG_3528 (resized).JPG

I think this is at the heart of one of the two arguments I've read. One group of people is fine with buying from a company that condones JPOP's ethics enough to associate themselves with him, because no one they care about was burned by the guy.

The other group of people however considers every single pinball player in their in-group. This new company employs someone who stole from "us". Even though I haven't personally lost money in this fiasco, I'm frustrated by people that are egotistical enough brush aside JPOP's shameful sense of ethics, which is something American Pinball is apperently fine with as well.

I understand that this MG undertaking might actually work out for pre-purchasers, and if it does, then I'm happy they finally got something out of this horrible ordeal. To me though, any MG I'll ever see will always remind me of the sad incompetent guy that probably managed to survive in the 90s industry by the grace of the hardworking people around him, and whose delusions of grandeur have been allowed to exist because the pinball crowd is too courteous to sink to his level.

It doesn't matter whom a thief steals from. It's the belief that lying and taking things you haven't earned is ok, that I have a problem with.

Is anybody thinking about trading their MG pre-order for a Houdini?

Personally I like the look of Houdini better and it comes in at a much better price point.

Your hypothesis is ridiculous. Talk about twisting narratives to suit a warped view and position. I see many many many views and considerations. News flash. The world is not black and white.

BOGO!

I prefer MG myself.

Hit the Trunk! Hit the Trunk!

This is all you said:

It was an honest answer that I gave.

If you were aware of the lawsuit that Bruce had filed, I am surprised that you were not also aware that many additional plaintiffs joined that lawsuit, as this was discussed quite a bit in the JPop thread.

I used question marks and the word 'please' for a reason I was asking questions.. and no I was not aware of what ACTUALLY had happened with the lawsuit because the majority of the time the comments were like the one that sparked this tangent.... Intentionally vague and cloudy. Lots of talk of 'would', 'could', 'should' but very little 'Did, had, tried' I did not know if 'the owners group' represented an actual party involved in litigation, or simply a group of affected people talking in a private circle.

Ya know that feeling you get after haven eaten waaaaay too much popcorn...

I don't think we will see or hear any new facts about this until expo at the earliest.

Time for me to go on a diet.

Nah he gave us a little more than that, frankly.

I'm not a part of either group. I'm just an outsider interested in seeing new pinball games being made. Although I do hope people have the common sense to only buy a game that's standing in front of them. No more of this preordering bullshit, especially now that so many pins are being made.

It sounds to me that JPop working gives the people who spent their money unwisely on him a better chance of getting their money or a pinball machine out of the deal. That's the reasonable thought but I know there are some that are still emotional from the whole ordeal.

Did anyone make the joke yet that Houdini will make 7k disappear?

If not give me props..

Thanks for the input. It's time I went to bed here, but before I do, could I ask you to elaborate on your first statement? In what way do you consider yourself an outsider?

In relation to Jpop, I'm an outsider. I didn't put any preorder money down and I'm not a fanboy of his previous (or current) games. They are OK but nothing spectacular.

Yes. he's a funny guy doing the trolling for his master on threads and a game he has no intention (or means) of buying himself.

We all have posts we will save forever

Oh, by the way. This thread is talking about Houdini. The picture was about a row of empty Magic Girl cabinets. Sheez, get with the program.

For anyone who may feel this way & is in fear of being flamed:

I'm really excited to see this pin launch/flip and will consider buying one if the purchase helps make things right with jpop customers.

No flaming allowed on that comment!

If people love this pin for whatever reason, go for it.

At the end of the day, they make it great and sell a lot, they don't, they won't.

They have HUGE hurdles to overcome.

I'm reserving judgment until I had more from Kim (Mr 68) knowing him for years and his involvement with JPOP and all 3 projects. I want to believe but am cautious. While getting MG customers something is better then nothing I don't want to push the love too far. There are many others with BHZA, oh sorry, RAZA and AIW (I wanted BHZA).

I don't feel JPOP should ever be forgiven for what he has caused but this company may earn the right for some respect for healing some wounds. Kim is a major player in the good, bad and ugly from hype and excitement to pain and search for justice. He has organized those affected and I think most other should butt out of the bulk of this but pay attention to what is right or wrong.

I want to believe and see restitution. A new company and great games. But how can you not have reservations.

And if he were to repay everyone owed and go on to make amazing pins for years to come?

I just realized that I posted this in the BM66 thread, thought that it was posted here.

I agree that this is not a black and white situation.

Believe me, I now have very conflicting feelings about this whole thing. On the one hand it really pisses me off to see that JPop had the balls to try and sell yet another pin when he had already screwed more than a hundred people out of tens of thousands of dollars, and to see some people indicating that they would be willing to preorder a pin from this guy is just plain insanity. There is a big part of me that just doesn't want to see JPop involved in designing another pin, regardless of whether it is technically for a new company.

OTOH, my friends who have been screwed out of a lot of money by JPop probably have little chance of recovering all of their money. So if by some small chance (and don't get me wrong, I definitely think the chance is *very* small) this American Pinball can actually make the buyers who JPop screwed whole again (or even mostly so), then I am obviously all for that.

But the devil is in the details, and how this will actually work. AP saying that MG will be delivered to all of their rightful owners by the end of 2016 sounds....well.....too good to be true, which means that it probably is.

And I'm only saying this on the merits of what I've seen so far. Forget the whole Jpop thing.

I have ZERO interest in Houdini, it looks somewhat cheap to me, I don't like the artwork/color palette or the looks of the layout.

I will not even consider buying one at $7k because there are plenty of other better options out there imho, based on what we have seen so far.

The idea that $7k is now a bargain has made me rethink it all. Yes I know I'm getting a BM66LE at $9500, because its Stern, Lyman, great theme, Gomez, 30th anniversary etc.

For $2500 more? It's not even F ing close. I know I'll get a great pinball machine. And i have great pins with TWDLE and GBLE in the $7500-$8k range. Again, absolutely ZERO confidence in anything else except JJP for that price range.

In the future, the only people that get my $$$ will be Stern, JJP or Spooky. Themes and coding!

How do you repay years of thinking you just got bent over and give the sand for lube treatment?

Losing money on an investment is not near as painful as feeling like a sucker.

Money < Pride - get it?

thought u were on alien?

oh I get it...lost so much $$$/pride via housing/stocks in 08-09 that it would make everyone in here start vomiting on each other like in those movies

I wanted to hate everyone and everything in this economy, but I got back up, watched frozen a bunch of times, and I'm better off today than pre 08/09

Sorry dude but your first sentence made me lol when you are dropping almost 10k on what exactly have you seen so far? Speculation isn't a bad thing imo. Best of luck!

I still have deposit but its been so long and BM66LE came out at a ridiculous price. I bit, and dropped RZ and will do the same with AlienLE.

I have the $$ but there are only so many hits I'm willing to take.

We are getting to the point where pin buyers who feel they are getting shafted and can't sell pins in the secondary market aren't going to pony up anymore.

Like I said, i don't mind losing money on pins, I love the hobby, but I'm going to be a whole lot more picky about what i get and i already have so many pins i love!

You don't know what I've seen dude.

Sums up my feelings as well.

I am going to be very picky about any future purchases in this hobby. Have already slowed down a lot in the last year, but things are really about to come to a complete crawl for me when it comes to buying the new stuff.

Think Julie Neymar naked.

In her prime

Or that scene from Ace Vetura where he sees fruit salad

Sounds like the black knight "stall"

Are we calling a top here?

Ok...
So is there really nobody on this message board or connected to it that can go to the show this week
and interview whoever is there from American-Pinball?

Is this the prequel to Genesis? Houdini backglass clearly features a younger version of the dude on the backglass in Genesis.

genesis1 and 2 (resized).jpg

Mike said he was aiming for a US$5000 price point

Taller too.

Anyone that wants to can wait until all MG games are delivered before having anything to do with AP. It looks like the only way this can have a happy ending.

Then why say anything at all, and then shit on the speculators?

I get that speculation is crap, but that's all the "outsiders" have. And if American Pinball wasn't ready to say anything, why say anything at all?

My point is that the smart move is indeed to say nothing, but you couldn't help yourself and you had to take a cheap shot at people. That's douchey.

You can either be happy that AP may deliver MG or keep being salty that it wasn't delivered by Zidware.

Can anyone answer this? Did JPop approach Aimtron/Dhavani or did Aimtron/Dhavani approach JPop?

This would go a long way in helping people understand what is going on here. It also may change some opinions.

So what is it, chicken or the egg?

I know 100% my 1st impressions were that American Pinball was the new Zidware and f*ck anything to do with them. That opinion has changed.

Your opinion is acknowledged.

Based on what analysis?

EVERYBODY here is an expert on bill of materials and the exact cost of what it takes to build a pinball machine.

Build and support. After it is out the door there are still costs.

Did someone say Julie Newmar?

I'm still stuck on why delivering MG pins would make everything better? There was just as much hype, promise and money given to JPop for RAZA as for MG. we have a RAZA blog FULL or design crap flooded to us by JPop and promise of "full speed ahead". And then cash from AIW buyers when he knew his ship was under water...