I guess people are so eager to get the credit.. they don't read the thread or look at the top of the thread to see all the existing photos..

No way, Houdini likely has zero software. The LCD screen is just a prop with no basis. Mishandled IP issue has reared its ugly head and that alone will likely sink the Titanic, and American Pinball, in this case.

People who think they will be receiving a completed MG pin - do you want to put a MG in your home that doesn't shoot well, has no sound nor any software and never will? Humorously, should AP deliver a dozen incomplete games to Zidware customers, everybody will demand to know - where's the code, and how AP will fix the MG playfield to shoot better. With no concrete answers, expect MG owners to remain disappointed.

That would surely go for any game. Aimtron haven't ripped anyone off.

But the photos aren't on this page yet. Someone get to it.

I was also thinking of Kevin Kline.

Just wanted to add a personal thought...Right or faulse
If i was in the JP position, with my skills and the work i've done in the past, you can be sure that i would not be in business with AP as an employee but an associate and gets some shares of the company. So i would really get the opportunity to repair my mistakes.

Well, I can tell you that legally there is not a whole lot anyone can do to a new company that was not connected to the company that took people's money. So they hired a con man, he got paid to design a game, if there are any IPs he could have sold them for whatever amount to AP. I say cut out the BS and let's see what happens, on top of that a new company legally doesn't have to make anyone whole but by them doing so shows that JPOP wants to make amends. I hope fellow pinheads can atleast get a MG out of this debacle and the rest of us can get some badly needed new blood in the hobby.

So any Professional Magicians out there?

I have some old hauntings I wish to Gossip about.......

Doubtful, and it'd be an incredibly stupid move on Aimtron / AP's part.

They're doing him a massive favour re: MG etc, and no doubt partly en lieu of higher pay / commission for him. Even a year ago, I'm guessing JPop barely had a cent left, and needs money .... hence probably why you're seeing two games at once from Aimtron. MG for good PR for the company, and for JPop to redeem himself. Houdini for both parties to get paid.

If they fall out with JPop or there are issues with him, granting him capital would make it very difficult. Why bother to risk it? If they're developing these machines, and quickly, they clearly have the resources to pay him.

Aha! I was trying to figure out who it reminded me of, thanks. Now if only one day we get an Evil Dead pin.

Those are new photos, not the blurry mess we saw before. Looks nice but it's curious that so reluctant to let a photo get taken last night and today there are 3 fairly close up and clear photos... although they do appear carefully framed so maybe they wanted to control what went out.

Also, it has the appearance of being in a show booth... where the heck is it? Was last night a pre-preview?

Arrrrggh. WTH is going on?! Lol

When your always a downer and very pessimistic its easy being right when things go wrong. Congradulations

Yes last night was a preview. Today they are in a booth in Vegas. Its all been discussed a few pages ago.

It's very standard at reveals for the manufacturer to control what images are released.

Why taking this risk? Coz he brings his expertise and skills
you can be sure that some clauses were well written by lawyers to preserve the interests of each other as liabilities

Bless your little heart:

I dont' know all the legalities, but regardless I think it's suicide if American Pinball doesn't completely make everybody involved with John whole, to use John as a designer on their tables. They have to know this, so they must actually intend to make everyone whole.

I wouldn't have gotten into the shit storm if I were them, but I wish them luck and hope they do well, they've got a tough, tough uphill 'credibility' battle on this, and even if people are made whole they'll still have a bad taste in their mouth that is now intertwined with American Pinball.

If it is Trump they would have used the word Billionaire.

Désolé, pas compris ce que dit wcbrandes

You may know good sir, doesn't David Copperfield own a TON of Houdini props?

yes

... and it'd be done UNDER BUDGET, and AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. And have more tacky, gold block lettering.

He actually owns 3/4 of all Houdini memorabilia in his own private museum including the original Chinese water torture chamber.

Well there is one thing Trump and Jpop have a lot in common, both refuse to pay contractors and vendors for their work. And when you do that, at lot easier to come in under budget.

So you think AP has the more than $600k gate admission to buy goodwill? God bless them if they do.

indeed, I believe the largest collection as he says!

David also collects Coin-op, Fortune tellers, automatons, and had proxy bidders 20 years ago at Super Auctions/Disney to grab a bunch of the 1930's and early stuff that use to be on main street emporium
in Disney World. Rumor has it Scherer took the Disney Property from Storage and sold personally.

I had tried several times to see his warehouse collection in Las Vegas. Its quite locked up and difficult,
but failed. At that time, he was dating one of the "Palm Girls", and I knew her Twin Sister.

Did you get in there, Ted? Theres video of it, but just a little bit...

I did get to mess with the Milk can, hand cuffs, and other props at his brothers Estate. David got much of this,
i believe it was after Randi and Vito took the most.
The personal Travel Trunks, were of grand interest to me. Very well made, secret compartments, and my passion for this.

2 out of 3 ain't bad. The code was nonexistant. I suspect that is what's going on here as well. Likely the toys aren't working due to no code or untested programming.

Ok I think this has been beaten to death now. Yes, they knew the background of John. However, it's not suicide to take this on, even if they don't make MG AIW and RAZA owners some kind of deal. There's plenty of people that either know a little about john, nothing about john, even some that probably know the whole story that would still jump on Houdini if it turns out to be a fun pin to play. The IP issues and what Bill owns or Zidware owns is another story.. but what I see is:

If Zidware owns the patents/IP, than the lawsuit has to be resolved. Of course AP realized this, and John would easily jump on board @AP probably for cheap pay if it meant he got to continue making pinball and his lawsuit potentially is settled. So 26 MG's are planned to be finished in hopes of the lawsuit being settled. Than AP can use all the IP/patents from Zidware, unless there's potentially more lawsuits from Raza or AIW investors... however they likely would just turn over investors credits (probably not 1) to a different title from AP. Than they guarantee some future sales. Who knows, maybe they'll finish Raza and AIW and plan on making up losses thru the rest of the sales on those games. It seems like AP def. has significant capital backing already.. so losses could be absorbed now and made up with future profit. If they pull this all off they got a ton of early PR coverage.. even bad coverage can be good.

You, yes you. You nailed it. Good job, gold star.

This seems to be the most logical approach. Finish and build the two other games (they were good themes to begin with), and offer those who invested in JPOP free or discounted machines.. whatever AP can afford to do. If they could get to a point they're building 1K+ of each title, they could definitely make JPOP investors happy, or at least happier than receiveing nothing.

If I were in charge of this shitstorm, I'd make "LE" versions of AIW/RAZA available only to those who bought from JPOP, and offer regular versions to everyone else to cover the cost of the games. Sell the LEs as cheaply as possible to the JPOP folks to offset their losses. Make the LE the same game, but with additional bling to separate it from the regulars.

American Pinball did not just rise out of the ashes from JPop's failures and Zidware. They saw valuable, but distressed assets that could get them in the door of the pinball world QUICKLY. A.P. knows and Jon knows full well he could not sell the intellectual properties paid for by others so A.P. could not buy any of it. John HAS to be an employee on paper and he keeps all of the rights from Zidware and anything else. This keeps A.P. safe from any of John's lawsuits. Since A.P. is a new company, they will not be financially responsible for any of JPops misadventures. Instead, I have to speculate what they are doing is producing MG, RAZA, and AIW on BEHALF of John in exchange for him to be designing for A.P. and his cabinet designs. Of course John is getting paid, but not monetarily. He is getting paid with his machines being produced by A.P., they are bailing his ass out on the deposits he took . As far as anyone else John owes, aside from game purchases and deposits, A.P. with have nothing to do with that. I would almost go as far as speculating that the initial run of Magic Girls that are owed will not have an American Pinball logo on them anywhere.

I would have to venture and guess all the parts, boards/computers, harnesses, and mechanisms on these will be "made and assembled in China" and the games will just be quickly assembled here. How else for can you do low production # games for a retail of $7K? What that will do is bring new games to the market on a quicker pace, especially if common mechanisms are used on several designs. Almost like when Gottlieb would produce the same playfield for 5 different games, just the names and themes changed. It could be done on modern machines with simple layout changes. Hell , made in china might

I would also guess that you will see machines on a rotating basis, meaning one new machine produced for every title owed machine, just like we have now, Houdini introduced now, Magic Girl owed. At the end, if both parties are still standing A.P. does look like a shining star and John, well, stick to designing. What they are not paying in start up costs, which is significant because JPop did have a pretty solid core of assets with cabinets, designs, a working prototype, and other essentials, they will be paying in producing John's 3 games. It's a trade off and a gamble, but it is a gamble that could pay off significant odds.

Just pure speculation on my part, but as a businessman and a gambler, I can see how this comes about.

Im with you on this one

--Jeff

I really hope this is fake. If not, having jpop design a machine is a kick in the groin to every person he swindled. This is abhorrent.

Am I missing something here?

How in the world can anyone possibly say this was a straight face? If anything, MG was *less* of a reveal of a "box of blinking lights" than Houdini was. MG was at least playable. Nobody has plunged a ball on Houdini.

So how can anyone know that "this is right around the bend from being ready to go" unless the "reporter" is simply taking American Pinballs word for it?

Yes -- complete agree with you Vdojaq.

Realizing that the big thorn to pull out is the lawsuit. I doubt there's too much stipulation as to how MG has to play once delivered although it makes sense that they would want to deliver a decent product.. probably just a bit stripped down from the one shown at the NW show where certain mechs & placements didn't even make sense mechanically.

For the rest of the investors, at this point no one was expecting to get *anything* so getting credit on a different game (or possibly even the same game they put $$ down on) is a win. Of course some people won't be happy with this, but I'd take a hot tea in liu of a cappuccino if I've paid and there's no refunds.

I DO wonder about the vendors that weren't paid though -- which I think mainly relates to MG, possibly the art on AIW or RAZA? Just totally screwed? AP really has no reason to pay them unless they worked something out with John already regarding that as well.

Hope what is fake? There's pictures... Of the game. People have seen it.

image (resized).png

Anyone else notice the LCD screen is not straight - looks like it is just placed in the game.

houdini2 (resized).jpg

I'm more concerned about what is that big toy that blocks a significant portion of the screen

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=705380626282107&id=512719442214894

Pics

No one cares about Player 4's score anyways...

Dear Lord.... Yes, we've seen the photos.

If AP is somehow able to make all of the MG, RAZA, and AIW depositors whole (or even mostly whole) by using the profits that they make from selling pins to new buyers, there is either a ton more profit in pinball machines than I thought, or not nearly as much money was given to JPop as I thought there was.

So I hear there are some photos.....anyone got a link to them?

Of the goatee?

What photos

I'm not sure which reveal he's referencing, the before or after Pintasia involvement. In any case I hope Houdini plays better than MG. That video was awful.

Let's be glad JPOP's likeness was not used!!

What I'm trying to figure out, and forgive me if this has been mentioned, but why didn't AP reveal MG in a playable form? According to AP, they are shipping them out as early as October Expo. That has to mean there is at least one completely finished or damn-near-it machine in their possession. Right?

I mean if we are to believe everything they have said thus far. Which I by no means am saying that any of us are. Wouldn't MG make way more sense? Wouldn't we all be a lot more amazed if we saw a flipping MG vs. some game we know nothing about. Wouldn't they want to show this, if of course it actually exists, then some blurry pics of Houdini?

Just another question in my mind concerning their claims of making everyone whole.

My guess is the lead with the announcement of MG so that people would be more positive towards their new company when they found out Jpop designed Houdini.