That's what everyone said about AIW.

?? You have a custom made loop ramp on your game? Pics?
Tftc doesn't have a upsidown loop

Send money now!

Right, it has a loopback (180, not 360)
image-12[1] (resized).jpg

Only game I've ever seen with a complete loop is a gottlieb gold wings

It's not in a game yet, it's a work in progress. Also playing around with a vert loopback ramp:

Pinballnews article mentions restitution for MG buyers. And pinballnews says that will make them heroes. Pinballnews needs to focus on the total picture. What about the others who lost thousands? This game is being built with parts developed using our money.

Crock of shit until everyone is taken care of equitably. Pinballnews should know better than to gloss over this crap.

If restitution isn't made to all MG, RAZA, AIW buyers, AP is doing nothing but stealing from them.

Biggest BS crap story on that schill mag yet..."If they actually can make the Magic Girl fiasco right, they will be super – no, super-duper – heroes to the pinball community."

Talk about putting the cart in front of the horse. MG is ONLY a small portion of the issue Jpop has conjured up. They need to fix MG, RAZA, and AiW fiasco before ANYONE gives them a single penny on any game. Sickening to me that this company is coming around and using all the IP and $ from those 3 failed games to develop Houdini. This is completely unacceptable.

I implore you that they do not deserve the stage at expo to talk about Houdini. If they want to talk about Houdini then all the questions need to be answered about MG, RAZA, AND AiW.
Those people all paid for LIMITED run, high quality machines that are years beyond due dates.

JPOP has had 2nd, 3rd, and now is on his 4th chance. He no longer deserves this chance.

Those that are owed money actually have been given a gift and that gift is all about the timing. If you ever want to be made whole, NOW is the time to force Jpop into bankruptcy! This company is nearly potted in. Force John into Bankruptcy while he actually has a job and you can fight to show how he used your money to develop things now being used on Houdini. Just pushing him into bankruptcy is actually pretty easy (look at SkitB for reference) and doing so will give you the weight you need to toss around in order to influence either an ammicable outcome with his new contractor (someone also now guilty of stealing your paid for IP as far as I am concerned).

NOW IS THE TIME TO STRIKE!!!!

JPOP DOES NOT DESERVE ANOTHER CHANCE!!!

they are a complete schill online mag with crap reporting and should be ashamed that they published that!

Ok.

This guy drove all the way to Vegas, saw a box with blinking lights that he wasn't allowed to look in or flip... says it not just "box with blinking lights" and then comes away without addressing:

-where the game is manufactured
-how many will be manufactured
-is it direct or distributor selling model?
-is the price MSRP or street?
- resolution for other zidware customers

Etc...

This is looking like a total PR stunt. Show a box with blinking lights... then make everyone wait a year to a year and a half to see it released.

You know what, this doenst surprise me at all.

This is pure 100% JPOP way of doing business. Atleast he didn't have to sign a NDA to enter that room.

Okay I might be getting this wrong but does this whole launch seem like something that was pre -arranged and exclusive to pinball news? Having a pinball machine shown in your hotel suite with no other press is not a launch its a staged event. Pinball news obviously has know what's happening for while as mentioned in the first post about American Pinball. Don't get me wrong have nothing against Tim or the site it's just that they should be a little more transparent in their announcement saying it was a private introduction to the company and machine. Pinballnews was one of the key sources to expose the whole Zidware fiasco, so maybe it's a full circle approach to finding closure.

There is just something that feels off with the whole way they have announced and launched themselves into the limelight.

I hope it is real for 2 reasons,

Hopefully jpop spenders now get something for the money they lost.

If it is real stern might have real competition with American pinball soon.
A huge multi million dollar backed company with proper manufacturing processes.

American pinball is a new company that have absolutely no obligation towards the unfortunate guys that commitment on jpop games. Assuming they have hired? jpop make no difference than your local Burger King hiring a former thieve or ex-con. We should stop looking at the glass half empty and think about those that may receive their MG. Time will only tell if they will be heroes or liars....can't you wait another 3 months to judge them?

The only thing that could blow this hype to the stratosphere is if its revealed Trump is the millionaire backer.

If they are using IP that was developed with RAZA, MG, AiW preorder dollars (that is pretty obvious) then they are actually obligated. 1 business is not allowed to take over another in order to remove its creditors.

On top of it all, the community can easily force their hand to make things right. Refuse to buy till ALL creditors are taken care of!

That will never happen. If they offer a great game that offers way more then a stern for less money and it's not a preorder they will sell alot of them and you're very foolish if you believe otherwise.

Wow it's packed with features..If and there is a lot of IFs..if it plays well it wlll out sell WOZ.....I can hear the phones ringing about BM66 cancellations already..the timing couldn't be worse for Stern..pf issues, no refund, no reveal...price increases. Boom

If and it's a big IF this does happen it will be good competition for stern which is really badly needed. Finally a competing company with manufacturering knowledge and stable financial backing.

You're making a lot of assumptions about a game that no one has seen flip, from a new manufacturer, when every other new company's road from playable games at shows to production for customers has been a very tough long road.

That's exactly why his first sentence says ".If and there is a lot of IFs"

So, you are suggesting to the owners of MG not to accept their games until every one involved in jpop fiasco is taken care off or suggesting the owners of RAZA/AIW to put a lien on those games before delivery?. The guys from AP apparently are trying to help somehow...you are just complaining and for sure not adding anything positive towards the resolution of this problem. By the way....who's the community? If Houdini is good it will fly off the shell. On the paper it looks like it has more stuff than any stern ever.

Martin Ayub pinball news is not a shill for the game.

I think everyone is missing the most important question.....

Where is the power switch located

It does remind me a bit of their decade-old "coverage" of croc hunter.

goatee Tim was so proud of his scoop there's practically no critical analysis in the piece, it's pure puffing of something that invites nothing but cynicism from anybody with any familiarity of the situation.

Did you forget to add a sarcasm emoji at the end of that ? Stern is their own worst enemy. Nobody is going to cancel an order over this thing. It will be because of the bad QC and massive price increases that Stern is in control of. Much too much hype for a box of lights, and this whole thing still sounds sketchy.

I haven't seen their pinball manufacturing knowledge and stable financial backing yet. Have you? Please, share details. The whole thread is wanting to know about both of those details.

Reread the thread then as I'm not going to do it for you. The man who's running American pinball is the son of a large profitable electronics producer (http://aimtron.com/) the buildings they are using are also owned but said electronics company.

Look at there website there main buisness moto is aimtron manufacturing success

Gold wing has somewhat of the same type of ramp.

Screen Shot 2016-09-27 at 7.28.34 AM (resized).png

Well let's give a little credit shall we..Pinball News specifically said:

"Houdini, what is available to be seen is an incredible effort. This is not the “box of blinking lights” that the Magic Girl reveal was. This is right around the bend from being ready to go."
I would agree with your skepticism if they came here and asking for preorder money without a factory and a preproduction game but as long as no money is exchanged hands. Let me have some fun...We're a tired and disappointed bunch of pinheads lately.

I'm just curious as to how you know there using all the IP from the other games? Do you have exclusive knowledge of this? Have you already seen the machine and can confirm that there is IP used? Are you involved in the devlopment of this game? I think you need to extinguish your torch and put your pitchfork down before you actually hear something. Remember assumption is the mother of all f'ups. Hopefully everyone can be made whole. You screaming at some company that has no legal obligation to previous customers of a defunct company that is atleast at the bare minimum trying to make things right doesn't help the situation at all.

If AP delivers a few MG to customers , as some posts above do say mg customers were contacted this weekend, that would be a huge boost to the legit launch of American Pinball - it's a high risk - it could suck, they may not get a chance to speak - but if they deliver , man , they deserve at least to hear how the hell that miracle happened .

I've helped assemble that mg for the NW show with pdxmonkey so Bill brandes could see it. I know what was the state of finish then, on and under the PF, including seeing some of the missing mechs and features and software (which was much further along with playability - at least with the glass off - than you might have guessed). Just sayin if they let me see MG now, I can tell you if it's the same concepts (as JPop described at the time) as compared to what will be delivered in 16 days.

Now, if the pictures above of the old aimtron is the site (which it definitely looks to be so) of AP at 1448 Yorkshire - then I need to make another drop in visit like I did last month.

Maybe DVasini will let me inside vs talking In the parking lot.

This is still twilight zone stuff - we will see.

Is this a Penn & Teller fool us ?!

g_covexr_8072046_ver1.0_640_480 (resized).jpg

I definately understand clearly how stupid , short-sighted, and full of money the homeowner hobby has become.

Stern's move into the high end pricing spectrum seems to be having a detrimental affect on a lot of people's better judgement and critical thinking. Consider that up until a few days ago a lot of people on pinside based in both NA and Europe were quite willing to throw their blind faith support to the concept of a Chinese manufactured pinball machine with a still as yet unknown designer/programmer/artwork team based primarily on a posted hint that subsequent unnamed titles from this startup would be priced below Sterns current pricing model.

Of course all that came crashing back to reality when recent objective firsthand feedback revealed that the initial prototype machine's progress consisted of little more than a blank whitewood with some bumper caps on it and some accompanying generic assemblies largely based on the works of other manufacturers.

If they make it to Expo, Berk and Pacak better have hired a ton... *TON* of security. REAL security/police... not his buddies. There is no way a riot does not ensue IMHO...

Jaz

What a pathetic reveal! This whole thing really does smell funny. I hope that in the long run those that were swindled by JPop either get a great game, or their money back.

I still don't understand why American Pinball would align themselves with JPop. They say "Who would care about American Pinball if we didn’t have a big name behind us?". I would venture to say that if they made new, great games at a competitive price, everyone would care, independent of a "big name". I also have to imagine there are some other old school designers out there who might be interested in designing games again (who is Nordman designing for these days?). Not to mention they come out of the gates with a tarnished look, and have the legacy issue of making the JPop mess right. Seems like a lot of extra expense. It just doesn't make sense...

I guess the one thing that does make sense, is they certainly have generated a ton of buzz for themselves...

It's going to be an interesting Expo. Think JPop will show his ugly mug?

Yes! It is real !

I was afraid it was a fake company website that some troll made..pinside seems to attract a lot of them.

Man,i am so happy Magic Girl buyers are receiving something for their lost money!
It was such a brutal situation..

Give AP a break, hold your breath for a few months.

If this is happening, it is close to a miracle?

Stop the negativity and everybody that is not an aiw , raza or mg buyer, don't post,it doesn't matter what you think.
You just like fueling fires.
People lost their asses( incl me) let AP do their thing and follow progress in a positive way.

Stop throwing poop at them,do you throw poop at somebody on the street that you don't know?

(The answer is no btw)

Let it go. You'll be much happier.

I'm perfectly content, but thanks for the advice.

The temptation of exclusivity of information always tends to dissuade interviewers from holding interviewees feet to the fire with critical analysis.

I wouldn't be singling out pinballnews for tar and feathering though, moreso that the editors who run these publications/podcasts need to remind themselves that these new startups are far more reliant on them for salience, more than the editors need the new startups for exclusivity of information.

Yeah watch out for those super tough pinsiders,they will point their finger at you when you ain't looking.
Some might even Whisper something from the other side of the room

Gorgeous goatee!

Put me down for 2.

ok ... my 2 worthless cents.....

I have no skin in the game .. didn't lose money on JJP but have been following it since the inception as I was intrigued.

Going forward I am going to give AP the benefit of the doubt.
Zidware is bust and gone.... in business you can buy the assets another company that is in debt, bankrupt, etc .... without taking over any of their debt, money, or products owed. AP could have went this route very easily. They could of paid JP as a consultant and kept it hush. My guess is they will lose money making and providing MG games to the original purchasers but they are doing it to generate good will, which if they pull it off may be worth more than they lose on those machines.

I say put the pitchforks away until you see the outcome that is transpiring. Those that had lost money to JPOP, what do you have to loose?
I understand the (to quote the Donald) "Huge" hate for JPOP. He dangled carrots in front of you and convinced you to give up your hard earned cash for something that he was just not capable of producing. We can debate until we die what his original intentions were, but that won't get you a machine or your money back. The best chance I have seen in years is AP.

I truly hope AP can make it right for the victims involved. I quite honestly hope JPOP is behind AP pushing them to make things right.
I say give them a chance, what do you have to lose.....

This statement left me worried about the technical depth:
"I was also told that they are using a new variety of RGB LEDs in these units, and you could see that they were warmer to the eye than some of the RGB LEDs you see in other titles."

RGB LEDs can, by definition, be any color, including any color of white.

They are referring to the color temp. not the hue

They are probably referring to the new RGBW LEDs that have gained popularity recently.

Looks like you wont be joining the Pinball News Army one day.

If he was, you could at least count on it all being done.

what is one more bankruptcy...

While I wasn't in on MG,RAZA or AIW, I did get on the preorder list for Wayne's original MMR way back in 2006. I held out until PPS took over and finally demanded a refund. That whole experience jaded me! The dingo had my deposit for almost 8 years! I figured it was like gambling but I'm really not a gambler at heart. How long has it been since original deposits/ payments were made?
As far as I see it ,this company needs to satisfy all original buyers/ depositors. Once that happens, if reviews of MG or other machines are positive, I would think about purchasing Houdini BUT only if I was paying at time of machine pickup NOT before.
I would love to see everyone happy and satisfied in the end but I really doubt that's possible.

Why does the rest of the community have to protest because of some other peoples misfortune? Is this an ethical hobby now? All people do flip machines for money and these jpop games were a gamble, just like playing the stock market or going to a casino. There were so many unknowns however people gave him money hoping they would get the next title to skyrocket like BBB. I don't believe in the whole pre-order philosophy so I don't have to worry about getting burnt, that's why I wasn't surprised when things went south. I truly do feel bad for the people who lost money and I'm sure I'll still get flamed for this but sorry that's just how I see it.

Not everyone reads Pinside and the pinball community is much larger then what exists here. So there are probably a lot of people who don't even know about the Jpop fiasco. Even Mike P didn't know the extent of what happened until this week. For example people didn't even know about RZ being made until it was too late because if you don't read Pinside how would you have known about it. So if they don't have any knowledge of the past issues with Jpop and see a brand new machine from a new company what's stopping them from buying it. With all the recent price increases for NO apparent reason Houdini surely has my interest at that price point.

You have a point bud. Maybe I'm just being altruistic (wouldn't be the first time) but I do believe we have an opportunity, maybe not an obligation, to help our fellow pinheads out. As others stated this is the best chance they have.

Think about this from the AP perspective. They are clearly in this to make money. And clearly they are all in. If we force their hand to make all Zidware customers whole it's a win/win for everyone. They have stated multiple times they want to do that. I think they realize it's imperative to their success. They need this black cloud hanging over their head to turn into a silver lining, badly.

I agree!

together we are strong as a community. I dont care how amazing an American Pinball game may appear on the surface, I wont be supporting till 100% of creditors are taken care of. I have too many friends that were screwed by Jpop to let him reap any benefits from this new venture until they are taken care of.

We do have the ability to work together.