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Quoted from Elvishasleft:Good lord.. the guy takes time out of his day to actually give some real world basic honest info and still gets kicked in the nuts.
Pinside gonna Pinside.
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Quoted from Elvishasleft:Good lord.. the guy takes time out of his day to actually give some real world basic honest info and still gets kicked in the nuts.
And people wonder why companies never post here.
LTG : (
Quoted from LTG:And people wonder why companies never post here.
LTG : (
Yes, but to the same effect, customer's take time out of their days to ponder and discuss said products. Without pinball companies, we don't play. Without us, no product exists.
I don't feel he was being derogatory or mean spirited in his inference, and the fact that customer's feel the need to debate such things, only proves more how much transparency is lacking in this industry.
That said, billions will be made this fall on new video gaming platforms, and Sony is just only unveiling their pricing plan and launch date tomorrow, presumably just two months before it's launch.
Global launches of any kind are massive undertakings, even outside of pandemic type climates, but it's the job of a company to feed information to it's userbase in some logical capacity, and the pinball arena fails at this in some ways, and in other ways it succeeds.
We should never have to guess when and how or if we should be saving for a possible new purchase requiring thousands of dollars to be saved, especially in a pandemic as well, where people might not even have work at this point.
Lastly, my friend just chatted with me and echoed how NO one is discussing Cosmic Carnival presently. So rampant, even misinformed conversation about your company's game should never be viewed negatively, and if it's incorrect, it's the company's job to correct that respectfully, or even better.....help the userbase have a better vision of the company's product way prior to misconceptions existing.
Quoted from Navystan:I have a very small collection. Houdini, WoZ, and a recent edition of a GB (with Stern Topper!). I'm leaving one available slot for a GnR LE. I can't say I'm a big music fan. I don't love or hate GnR, but from everything I'm hearing, it's a steller pin. I wouldn't be surprised it might be the pin of the year. Anyway, my money is ready and I'm pretty sure it will be an easy buy.
What is everyone hearing that makes this a stellar pin? Serious question...
Quoted from Roostking:What is everyone hearing that makes this a stellar pin? Serious question...
No one knows. Everyone is just hoping for a great machine with nothing to go on except for Eric's last pin which was incredible.
I haven't heard of a single feature yet.
Trollhättan
Quoted from kermit24:So you pay $10,000 for a machine and have to pay more for the full package? Brilliant.
NO, you pay 10k for the full package, then if you want the game to evolve with additional modes, content, cutscenes assets etc, keeping a 10k 300 pounds toy from going stale collecting dust, you pay for that optional addition.
Quoted from Dr-pin:NO, you pay 10k for the full package, then if you want the game to evolve with additional modes, content, cutscenes assets etc, keeping a 10k 300 pounds toy from going stale collecting dust, you pay for that optional addition.
They love hearing you say that!
Quoted from Thunderbird:Keith is 100% right about no demand and also LTG is on the money. I was sitting in a room full of people in Oz, with Jack speaking about the new POTC. He was throwing out plastic pirate coins and drumming up sales for POTC, with slide show etc. People were there to look at and consider buying POTC. I was one of those people. I played POTC along with the many other games at the pinball show. Jack asked during the meeting and near the end of his presentation, if he could see could see by a raise of hands how many of us were going to buy POTC? Only 1 person raised their hand and I think one other person did also actually buy one at the show.
There was almost no demand, even with POTC on the floor and people playing the heck out of it, for a test run. The real issue was, no one wanted to buy a game they knew would lose big money in the secondary market, because of all the issues surrounding POTC. I was heavily debating between POTC and Dialed In. I left the show buying Dialed In.
With few POTCs ever produced demand is naturally higher, with FOMO coming into play and some collectors wanting a game few have. Start making more and watch prices and demand come down again, as they were in the beginning. Looking back, wished I’d purchased POTC, instead and could have sold it for more, because of the very low numbers actually produced. Lol
Why would a company act in such a childish way?
If you invent the wheel, and there is no demand, should you refuse to make wheel when cars are beeing produced, just because initial demand was low?
That's just stupid, and most likely bad. Buissness.
If they are unsure, just make potential customers commit, and if the demand is high enough, just start production.
If they feel lines are filled with other high demand products, vault it when between products.
If it's part of a choice not ever making more wide-bodies ever....
Well, imo that's a really poor choice and their loss.
Quoted from Roostking:They love hearing you say that!
It's a good thing if done the right way, but looking at computer and app developments, there are ofc concerns. Legitime ones.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:If you want a reason why we don't post here that often, this post is a pretty damn good example. If I go on an interview and say something, I'm saying it for a reason, and it's not to BS the entire community. Last time I talked about this, I htink, was on Buffalo Pinball and it was all legit. But let's go over it anyway.
This paragraph is riddled with problems. What evidence do you have that the narrative is false? Do you really think the investors had NO FUCKING CLUE what the game cost as it was going down the line? Believe me, they are very in-tune with what's going on around here, as well they should be.
Why would it sound terrible to the community? "Oh no, JJP isn't making enough profit, I'm practically stealing this game from them!" Sounds like they got a hell of a deal in that case, not sure why they would care.Yes, it picked up when everyone realized that was the end of the run.
As I explained on Buffalo Pinball, in manufacturing we have these things called lead times. That's how long it takes from when you order parts to when it's available for you to build games. This time can be anywhere from 3-12 weeks. This is true for every manufacturer. So, when the line is getting near the end of what they need to build, the decision of what to do next has to be made in time for you not to get shut down by lead time issues. For those number of weeks prior to the end of the line, there was DEFINITELY no interest to warrant ordering more POTC parts. So, the decision was made to move to WW, where we know we'll move a large number just because it's a new game, it's a good theme, and we think it's a good game.
So for those weeks after we made the decision, yes, demand went up greatly. It's too bad it wasn't sooner, because more would've been made then, but A) you can't make up your mind when you run out of parts, you have to plan and B) you can't assume demand is going to skyrocket and be stuck with a bunch of parts that don't turn into games.OK Doomer. Fell free to keep ignoring me!
I love this post. Thanks Keith! Pinside is a cesspool (even I get negative sometimes) but it's still good to know there's some eyes and ears out there. Just don't listen to any of the advice! LOL
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Just don't listen to any of the advice! LOL
This. So much this. When people suggest stupid things like removing the giant monitor or dumbing down the rulesets it makes me cringe.
What JJP is doing, I am liking.
Quoted from wesman:That fucking blows man. Jack has such a wonderful energy, and I've watched many of the presentations he and the crew have done, and there might as well be people sleeping, after eating the free food. To create and want to hype something, then get such a sterile muted response, is pretty painful to take in.
I reentered this scene just as POTC was going into production, so the momentum switch you talk about was really foreign to me. When I played the game initially at JJP HQ in the lobby, I was draining more on that than the Hobbit, loved the Hobbit license, and seeing that also for the first time had me somewhat dismissive of POTC. Playing it on location at Helicon, the very first game out in the wild I just found out, again, things just weren't clicking with me. The potential was understood by me when watching the Deadflip Valentine's Day stream, and ever since the game has been magical in my eyes.
Totally. Just hearing about the game initially, I wasn't that interested. I never really paid attention to the streams and whatnot - other things on my mind
I guess. Then I went to visit my brother in Dallas, and he took me to a HUGE pinball location. I couldn't get it out of my head after playing a few games. Tracked it down at home, played a few games. Sold! Had to find one. I sold my Pinball Magic and I think Scared Stiff.
It's a frickin' genius design, code is immamaculate. (ok but yeah I still want the update! At least leak the beta code! 
).
Quoted from LTG:And people wonder why companies never post here.
LTG : (
For the most part, distributors now too. I think that they probably got tired of all the keyboard experts and don't want to get into argumentative exchanges too. You hardly see them posting also.
As far as JJPOTC, my wife and I followed it from the start. Made special trips all the way to Chicago to play the prototype at Level 257 and even played a few games with Eric there. We were sold then. Played it at shows and then we were the first non-jjp employees to play the first one off of the production line in NJ with Jack on our anniversary. We were addicted to it then.
People need time/plays on the pins before they should give it a final judgment. Hopefully they will give JJP #6 some plays before they judge it. Streaming games gives some general ideas, but playing it several times will help to determine if it is ownership worthy. We just need the new pins to get to locations quickly and for locations to be open. There's lots of new pins out there to play and try out with more to choose from soon.
Quoted from Navystan:here's purely a guess. Imagine a pin with downloadable content, like additional songs package....hmmm
I will add to your thought. Include an app where the code can be user modified and installed. A forum or database where users share code. Potentially do it all via wifi from the machine.
Quoted from JDHHoover:I will add to your thought. Include an app where the code can be user modified and installed. A forum or database where users share code.
It's been covered before. Never happen.
LTG : )
Quoted from zaphX:Was it Cidercade? That's where I played POTC as well and got hooked on it - made the call same day to buy one.
Checked the photos - I think It might have been! Is there a second, even larger room where they have more games? I seem to remember a broken Tron, which (I think) was the only game that was down in the whole place
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Checked the photos - I think It might have been! Is there a second, even larger room where they have more games? I seem to remember a broken Tron, which (I think) was the only game that was down in the whole place
Cidercade December 2018
56669164959__6C12FF22-7186-4B34-9877-AE6ADC64EC43 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from zaphX:Cidercade December 2018
I’m there every 6 months visiting between oncologist appointments and scans at UTSW. Light crowd mid week in the middle of the day!
There's a certain irony that the best game JJP has made and the one in demand the most currently is the one they won't rerun despite doing seemingly unlimited new limited edition versions of games. It's frankly the first JJP game I've thought about buying and it's not even an option.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I love this post. Thanks Keith! Pinside is a cesspool (even I get negative sometimes) but it's still good to know there's some eyes and ears out there. Just don't listen to any of the advice! LOL
Lol, the only thing Keith forgot was a mic drop. Bam. Loved that post he still has the fire. Can’t wait for the next title which I Believe is why we are in this thread.
Quoted from TheLaw:Well I own one and don;t know anything aboot smart phone integration either You were supposed to be able to connect via BT to the game and use flipper or have a MB or something.
I remember it kind of being pushed to the side, or people just not really caring.
I haven’t read through all of the responses..but one of the things the app does is let you collect Big Bang even if you are not using the app to control the flippers. I wish the blow back on the app integration wasn’t so in intense, laying the phone on the glass and having it interact with the game is really innovative.
Edit: think of it as a portable lockdown button.
I would be so in for this game if it weren't a crap band that hasn't been relevant in 25+ years. And in my opinion, never was.
Just complete pop-rock ballad cokehead nonsense music.
Why not Deftones or something, or NOFX. If the music involves men wearing tights it's garbage I'm sorry.
Quoted from Yelobird:Lol, the only thing Keith forgot was a mic drop. Bam. Loved that post he still has the fire. Can’t wait for the next title which I Believe is why we are in this thread.
word!
Quoted from Goronic:I 'think' you have POTC buyers around 10K but not 12+K. That is the issue.
That is why, in my opinion, if JJP has to charge 12K they should not bother. I know for me I will not buy any pin that is more than 10K. I don't care what it is. There are just way to many pins that I would like that are well under 10K, and I certainly don't need a JJP POTC that bad.
Some of you guys have a shit ton more money than I do so my 10K ceiling is not yours. But I don't think I am in the minority on the "prices are getting too damn high" issue.
They were losing money at $9,000. The question is what price makes sense? Let just say $9000 is break even. At$12,000 you are dropping $3000 to the bottom line. So they sell another 100 and make $300,000 while delaying your next release. Would that really make any sense? Probably not. They only way that potc gets made this fall is due to a delay of a planned release like GNR and they have a window to build.
Quoted from cantbfrank:They were losing money at $9,000.
resize_skeptical_eyes (resized).pngGNR completed a three year sold out world tour, in the largest venues. Most my friends saw at least one show. I only got to see one, wish I could have seen more.
GNR' Appetite for Destruction is simply one of the stone cold greatest Debut albums of all time.
GNR is RELEVANT.
Attacking a band about fashion? Realy?
Mozart wore lace. I guess I cant love the Requium Mass, now.
Quoted from gonzo73:Mozart wore lace. I guess I cant love the Requium Mass, now.
I hope you still love The Magic Flute.
LTG : )
Quoted from donkadelic:I would be so in for this game if it weren't a crap band that hasn't been relevant in 25+ years. And in my opinion, never was.
Just complete pop-rock ballad cokehead nonsense music.
Why not Deftones or something, or NOFX. If the music involves men wearing tights it's garbage I'm sorry.
Tell a lot about someone in a post.
GnR not relevant...... Ever?
Suggestion to replace GnR with deftones or NOFX?
It's crazy to think how out of touch people are. Scary.
Sticking to just facts.....not only was the band an absolute monster in the late 80s early 90s but just wrapped one of the biggest tours ever! Deftones and NOFX really killing it these days. I forgot their tour numbers? I think NOFX just announced their name change to NOFANS haha
Seriously what a misguided troll post that just takes away any credibility donkadelic
Quoted from delt31:Tell a lot about someone in a post.
GnR not relevant...... Ever?
Suggestion to replace GnR with deftones or NOFX?
It's crazy to think how out of touch people are. Scary.
Sticking to just facts.....not only was the band an absolute monster in the late 80s early 90s but just wrapped one of the biggest tours ever! Deftones and NOFX really killing it these days. I forgot their tour numbers? I think NOFX just announced their name change to NOFANS haha
Seriously what a misguided troll post that just takes away any credibility donkadelic
Only 5.3 million fans attended their last tour.I am on the wait list and will be very happy to see and hopefully hear a GnR Pinball by JJP this Friday please
Quoted from JodyG:Yeah, looks totally irrelevant over here, too Only 5.3 million fans attended their last tour.
[quoted image]
I mean, theres probably 5.3 million pedophiles in the world, too. Should we have a pedophile pinball machine next?
It is an aging and slowly dying well to draw from. An artist from today would have over 10 times the fan base and appeal. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this hobby is slowly dying because it likes to focus on a fan base that is also.... slowly dying.
Edit: oh look. A whole bunch of old people downvoted me for telling the truth. :/ I bet three of you yelled "get off my lawn" as you did it, too.
Looking forward to the reveal.Quoted from donkadelic:I would be so in for this game if it weren't a crap band that hasn't been relevant in 25+ years. And in my opinion, never was.
Just complete pop-rock ballad cokehead nonsense music.
Why not Deftones or something, or NOFX. If the music involves men wearing tights it's garbage I'm sorry.
Deftones, lmao!
Quoted from Doctor6:I mean, theres probably 5.3 million pedophiles in the world, too.
This is an exceedingly shitty analogy.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:If you want a reason why we don't post here that often, this post is a pretty damn good example. If I go on an interview and say something, I'm saying it for a reason, and it's not to BS the entire community. Last time I talked about this, I htink, was on Buffalo Pinball and it was all legit. But let's go over it anyway.
This paragraph is riddled with problems. What evidence do you have that the narrative is false? Do you really think the investors had NO FUCKING CLUE what the game cost as it was going down the line? Believe me, they are very in-tune with what's going on around here, as well they should be.
Why would it sound terrible to the community? "Oh no, JJP isn't making enough profit, I'm practically stealing this game from them!" Sounds like they got a hell of a deal in that case, not sure why they would care.Yes, it picked up when everyone realized that was the end of the run.
As I explained on Buffalo Pinball, in manufacturing we have these things called lead times. That's how long it takes from when you order parts to when it's available for you to build games. This time can be anywhere from 3-12 weeks. This is true for every manufacturer. So, when the line is getting near the end of what they need to build, the decision of what to do next has to be made in time for you not to get shut down by lead time issues. For those number of weeks prior to the end of the line, there was DEFINITELY no interest to warrant ordering more POTC parts. So, the decision was made to move to WW, where we know we'll move a large number just because it's a new game, it's a good theme, and we think it's a good game.
So for those weeks after we made the decision, yes, demand went up greatly. It's too bad it wasn't sooner, because more would've been made then, but A) you can't make up your mind when you run out of parts, you have to plan and B) you can't assume demand is going to skyrocket and be stuck with a bunch of parts that don't turn into games.OK Doomer. Fell free to keep ignoring me!
A post that is more than pure speculation. With so many asking what are the chanes of a run of 500 or 1000
Quoted from JodyG:This is an exceedingly shitty analogy.
No shit how the fuck do you think of pedophilia from a conversation of GnR.We had another dude on here that concluded Toy Story characters were queer after talking about that pin!WTF
Quoted from LTG:And people wonder why companies never post here.
LTG : (
I have thought for a long time it would be good for Pinside to have a place for companies to comment no thumbs up/down no comments just the companies announcements
They can do that now with a locked thread. I remember a few over the years were created by companies just for this reason. its been a while....
Quoted from JY64:I have thought for a long time it would be good for Pinside to have a place for companies to comment no thumbs up/down no comments just the companies announcements
You don't have to like the band but no denying they have been popular through the years. They were extremely popular back in the day and songs still played constantly on the radio. Pretty much everyone knows who they are and can name at least one of their songs. JJP could do far worse when it comes to band themes.
Quoted from Doctor6:I mean, theres probably 5.3 million pedophiles in the world, too. Should we have a pedophile pinball machine next?
It is an aging and slowly dying well to draw from. An artist from today would have over 10 times the fan base and appeal. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this hobby is slowly dying because it likes to focus on a fan base that is also.... slowly dying.
We're already seeing a shift towards games aimed at a younger audience with Stranger Things, TMNT, and all the superhero pins. I don't think the same would work with music pins - if I look at today's music trends and their fans, I see no common ground with pinball whatsoever. Maybe music pins will disappear somewhere down the line, but if you want to build a successful one today, you've got to consider the current pinball community, and - like it or not - many of us have experienced GN'R, AC/DC, Sabbath, or Zeppelin in their prime and are nostalgic for those themes. We're also the ones who can afford current concert prices, so I think the list of top touring artists (with the possible exception of Ed Sheeran) doesn't seem to be the worst place to start.
Quoted from jawjaw:You don't have to like the band but no denying they have been popular through the years. They were extremely popular back in the day and songs still played constantly on the radio. Pretty much everyone knows who they are and can name at least one of their songs. JJP could do far worse when it comes to band themes.
I don't follow the logic here.
I mean everyone knows who Steve Urkel is and can name at least one of his catchphrases. There is no denying his popularity back in the 90's....
What about furby? Tickle me Elmo?
JJP could do far worse because people in general are morons that like stupid crap
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