I agree with all of the above.Im starting to understand I should only buy a game for home that has the full package of interest with theme being the big one .Pirates is my ultimate as it’s my favorite movie franchise .Unfortunatly I only joined this hobby last April and I’m not paying those prices in the aftermarket .No FN way! I’ll join in .I would be doing cartwheels if they turn out another run ! Actually it kinda seems likely that they will .My guess is still the re run past machines wonka,WOZ,pirates n you’ll see GnR next spring with TS to follow around thanksgiving .

a straight answer

Being that Stern LE games are a 500 unit run and JJP CE games are a 500 unit run yes the $12,500 counts. JJP has a standard $7,500 LE 5000 run = being a premium and there CE 500 run = a true LE

This Kubrick pin would make an Amazing Pinball experience. From dawn of man, to psychedelic wizard mod at end.

From what little I know, specialty parts ordering is often not just costly in getting those things made, but also a massive issue if demand isn't there, and parts have been over ordered. (Case in point, the Hobbit.)

Not sure your point. There are a ton of hobbit parts that are "out of stock".

http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Parts/The-Hobbit-Parts/

Are you saying they are overstocked on Hobbit parts? Because that is clearly not the case.

It only took six years...
shawsank_redemption (resized).png

For a game that's been out from shipping for years, it still has more available than Pirates.

I've heard it was a surplus.

My point being, last thing any company wants to do is be overstocked on parts for games they don't plan to make anymore. From any number of interviews and tours of the old facility, I've always heard that was an ongoing thorn for JJP. Millions in parts that may or not be used, according to game demand. The reason why there was a Black Arrow, parts overflow, not demand.

I've come to a conclusion that all the people here that seem to know exactly how to run a successful pinball manufacturing should.We could all work together and show JJP how to do it and even compete with Stern!
What do you say guys?

Secret addiction, I Love that movie! “Only took poor Andy 6 years and a rock hammer to find freedom”

The problem with your theory is every sentence starts with “I’ve heard” which means I read it somewhere on Pinside which usually means.....

I don't know if there is demand or not, or whatever. All I am saying is that they are out of stock on a lot of Hobbit parts, and don't have several that I want to buy. Take it for what you will.

Maybe if or when they build more pirates you will have more in stock - for a while anyway. Either way, I don't think JJP will keep lots of parts on hand for any of their pins. If they don't rerun pirates then the out of stock parts for pirates will be much like hobbit and stay out of stock. If they have a surplus that is news to me as I have called them and they don't have any.

People might as well ask JJP to make them a special version of JJPOTC with spinning discs on the playfield and a trunk that closes. JJP is stupid if they don’t make more. The second, third and forth waves of demand for their pin were never realized. Build more pins and people will come. Price them under $10k and we all will come.

Wasn't the reason for the cease of POTC production because it was too costly and they needed to get on with their next title? I don't think letters would help if a business is losing money making a product. Plenty of POTC out there, just wait for a HUO one to purchase when someone wants a change.

No, the reason given by Jack and reiterated by Keith in interviews was - the lack of demand. When JJP ceased production, demand continued and has since increased. Meanwhile, the supply of JJPOTC was fixed and now HUO‘s fetch $15k.

59018B4C-03A6-4AEC-A359-F4377F068C0E.jpeg

Wow really, thanks for the correction.

Yep...lengthy and difficult build, PF issues, parts supply issues, pricey license from the start. Most seem to think all of the above led to thin revenue margins and was the primary reason of why it was stopped.

If you aren’t making enough money for the amount of time your putting into producing it then you don’t make more. If any of the above is true, especially with new factory workers and everything it’s time to move on. Sucks but I really don’t think it was the cash cow that some believe it to be, it is a fantastic game though.

Supply was fixed so that's why they fetch $15k. If JJP makes POTC again it will be over $10k. There is nothing in the history of JJP or pinball that would say otherwise. Part of the problem with low demand in the beginning was the high price imo.

Lack of demand is a false narrative from them. Do you really expect Jack and gang to come out and say listen, we got our ass handed to us on this build and made very little? That would sound terrible to investors and the community.

Maybe early on demand was soft due to the delays and removal/change to several toys but it definitely picked up prior to the shutting it down.

The one thing that likely didn’t change was the margins on the build, I’m not hinting with all the issues and compounded with delays and length of build per game, margins were soft.

I also call BS on the "lack of demand". Maybe in the very early days, but not as the games were arriving in mass quantities. But decisions to order parts happen months ahead of time, so by then already decided to move on to Wonka and it was too late. I am also sure POTC has an incredibly long assembly time. If the game takes 2x the time to assemble than the next game, all of a sudden it isn't very appealing to re-run.

Heck MM Royal is $10K? I'd pay $10-11K for a new PotC *not* $15K for a used one.

I do think PotC is probably a good buy at $10K (all features not a standard edition).

$15K no way I can get two Stern premiums for $15K

This is my understanding as well. I am surprised they haven't made more while waiting to get GnR or Toy Story cranking. I guess they want to make more Wanka's and Woz's instead?

From what i've been gathering, JJP business decisions were being made by a management company in Florida. Said management company has no pinball experience or passion...hence some of the oddball things we have seen out of JJP over the years. No idea if these are the same people running things now or not.

You guys know we are in a pandemic right??

Manufacturing has shutdown across the board on and off for months... suppliers have not been making parts etc.

I know in my business I have not been able to get some needed products for months... they have not been being made and any inventory is long gone.

It would be more embarrassing to say they made a title that didn't sell, so I think their explanation is valid.

Demand wasn't there. Some of you JJPOTC fanboys need to accept that.

Totally Agree, and I own a POTC LE

Agreed. Remember, discgate and trunkgate caused big pullbacks in preorders, and sales were a slow burn at first.
It took a while for the word to get get out that the game was awesome.

POTC is fantastic. Better than any Stern to date!!!

I would buy a potc if reissued at retail prices, but No way in hell I’d pay the huo asking prices these days. I’d rather have 2 other new pins than just one, and I love jjp and potc. 15k would get you a jjp le nib and a stern pro. Nope! Now, bring on gnr do I can place my order jjp.

I think that is the core problem. The only reason $10k sounds good now is because used ones go for much more. No doubt the price would be well north of $10k given the limited market and high build cost. No matter how good you think POTC is, you have to question is it that much better than two good Stern games and worth the risk if there are still clearcoat issues. I think JJP would be far better off concentrating all efforts to get the next new game out.

also (IMO) if JJP was about making money they would have a supply of games for sale like Stern or CGC you can buy more than just the one pin they are selling. So if you didn't care for Wonka you could buy something else from JJP instead of buying from another company.

I bought SW comic last year, I could have bought Elvira or JP but didn't want those new pins so I was able to get another different pin from Stern. Stern made an extra sale by making more than just Elivra and nothing else.

Stern doesnt have a supply of games for sale. Supposedly every game they build is already "sold" to a distributor. The distributors are the warehouse. Stern takes orders from distributors, and when they have enough orders, they run another batch. There is nothing stopping distributors from keeping a stock of several different JJP games in the same manner.

Thats not a supposedly... they build what has been pre-sold because they are smart.

distribs take the risk on these games and hope they can sell what they put in for.

Stern does everything they can to only make pre-sold goods.

Better at being a snooze fest, little else.

My local op was so proud when he bought it a couple years back. His first JJP!

He sold it in under a year. No business.

I have a very small collection. Houdini, WoZ, and a recent edition of a GB (with Stern Topper!). I'm leaving one available slot for a GnR LE. I can't say I'm a big music fan. I don't love or hate GnR, but from everything I'm hearing, it's a steller pin. I wouldn't be surprised it might be the pin of the year. Anyway, my money is ready and I'm pretty sure it will be an easy buy.

My understanding is that Joe (and other JJP distributors) have been asking for JJP for more POTC for a while now. Not sure if he is hearing a reason why JJP won't make more.

Maybe Joe can chime in on it...

Like this whole thread, I don't know why JJP does what they do and why they don't build or stock things people want to buy.

But I don't know how to run a pinball company. However, I did start and own a successful software consulting company I sold 4 years ago to allow me to retire early I know how to build a software company, but not a pinball company.

So maybe JJP is doing the right things...at least I hope they are, and they have a reason for doing what they are doing.

My 2 cents would be to communicate better, and build more of what people are wanting to buy.

I've head about buying before playing but now it's buying before even seeing the pin? Don't like music pins, don't like the band but you are buying one?

I realize you can change your mind but to me I'm not buying something because because K-man says so.

On the Poorman's Pinball Podcast they said they have it on good authority that JJP will release their game on Friday (9/18) with games to be shipped that day.

Now I'm excited!

God I hope so

I sold my POTC SE for 12K. It was/is a great game. I really enjoyed it. However, no game to me is worth that much. And it really takes effort to play. Meaning if I only have a half hour to play, I am not turning on POTC. I feel that way about pretty much every JJP game. They make great games...fit and finish is the best...sound animations are awesome....code is deep...themes, meh...always time consuming to play.

I doubt POTC gets made again. No way in hell will it be $9500 if it does. C'mon, we are talking JJP here guys.

Well, I do plan to watch teaser videos, see pictures, and read feature list. But, that's all I will need to hit the "buy" button.

POTC is a horrible location game. If you don't get over the hump of learning how to play, you only put a couple of games on it and never play again. If you figure out how to play, you can be on the game for over a half hour. Either way earnings are not great.

Good points, but I think JJP would have to do pirates rerun at 10K or less or they won't move them in the numbers they would need to. If they are going to try to take advantage of a few willing to pay 12K for it they are probably wasting their time. 9.5 would probably sell well enough to make it worth while. If JJP has a pin where the BOM and build require it to be 12K they are losing the pin battle and are cost prohibitive to the consumer that have other options for product.

There have been multiple LE sales at ~15k. If you think JJP is going to roll out another wave POTCs @9.5k, I have a bridge to sell you.

I can understand that. I sold my Lotr because it was too long playing. I really love LotR except don’t like feeling like a chore to play.

To me (imo) I don’t have access to their books but to me JJP has never sold enough of anything to make it worth their time. I mean Woz sold great but lots were at bargain price of $6500 that’s ludicrous now to think they probably have not made any money on selling their fee pins.

I own DILE and Woz RR they’re two of the best pins I’ve ever played. I’m hoping that JJP keeps making more great pins.

Problem is the game likely can’t be sold for less since they likely had small margins with the original build. Only ways to increase margin is build it cheaper some how or raise the price.

I’m only basing this on all the well known issues that were mentioned earlier and time is money.

Just because a few sold for $15k don’t mean anything. If that was a valid price point those ones for for sale now would be sold already.

However $9.5 isn’t going to fly, I’d pay $10.5-11k but no more.

Agree 100%, I’ll likely never sell mine but I know what you mean with you better have some time to play.

Sometimes less is more and it would be interesting for them to do a more simple build/code and see how it does for them. I know that isn’t their thing but hey, who knows. A good build quality fast punishing tough adrenaline pumping game might be good for JJP!

So if they build another wave of POTCs and the price is 11.5k, you are out?

Probably out.

I played it and was on the fence. I would like to own one but I have a limit, I paid $8500 for RR Woz (second owner) but lets say id RR was $9.5 or $10.5K I don't feel like Potc is any better than Woz so I won't pay more than 11.5