And now you owe Keith some cash!

JJP comes out looking great if they announce and have in box ready to ship. With all of these delays, I’m starting to think that could happen. JJP isn’t that dumb.

Right?

Old games don't count, Captain Barbossa

Love to see the Billionaire owner get Elwyn from Stern.

Rumblings are getting stronger lately. Something is close....

Oh damn just noticed this!!!!! That better not be a troll post!!

I don't think Keith is capable of a troll post.

LTG : )

Mum’s the word!

Im in for a hondo

#LTG is full of duti no doubt! Lol

LTG : )

I'll take the bet. I'll even add a 0 on the end.

Haha, knew that clip from the screenshot immediately.

I’ll take that bet and give you double odds on wager!

Maybe JJP has a second line up and ready to go where they can do both #6 and POTC at the same time? I say maybe cause I don't know and can only speculate like 101% of the others that post here! In short I can't say "I know somebody at JJP that said......"

Me too.

Actually the recent incorrect rumors I believe came from suppliers to JJP, not JJP.

LTG : )

Anyone want to wager on how long it takes before smalltownguy2 deletes his account and disappears?

Been around 7 years. So I'd think not likely.

He's allowed to have his say. Don't like it ? Ignore or post a rebuttal.

LTG : )

Count me in too, by the way.

Of course, I was only suggesting he’d disappear when it came time to pay up. Just a joke

What?

I know.

All in good humor.

LTG : )

That ship has sailed.

Coming to port soon.

LTG : )

Picture suggest pirates rerun?

Depends on what Barbossa was saying.

LTG : )

You don't think these companies have an idea of what and when the others will release?

deeproot is literally around the corner, and JJP perhaps sooner than we think. Makes complete sense for Stern to step in front of them both, and lock down 500 LE's. Code on Avengers still needs polish, and them releasing it now, cuts a bit into TMNT sales.

So yes, to me...this seems rushed out the door a few weeks in advance.

JJP please release more POTC . Don’t want to support stern anymore.

Its nice to think those companies are threat to Stern and I wish they were but they aren't. Stern isn't rushing anything out with any fear what so ever. Deeproot hasn't released anything yet, most buyers are very skeptical of any new company when it comes to pinball. JJP is a one game a year company. TMNT sales are over for early buyers then it becomes a waiting game for everyone else, for finished code or finance and how does it exactly hurt Stern if someone buys Avengers.

Some people could care less how many games Stern releases per year. Modern Stern's come across as similar in regards to a majority don't contain many interactive features, they contain rather basic animations, there's a lack of detailed 3D molds (heavy use of flat plastics), all have some combination of dull filler "super" modes, and they often lack enough modes that offer great mode choreography. There are some exceptions but they are few and far between. JJP games on the other hand all feel extremely unique and come across as a spectacle. I'll take quality, depth, and variety over quantity any day...especially if I'm spending $7k - $9k+ on a pin of all things. JJP is driven by passion first, profit second while Stern is the opposite.

I agree with both of you for the most part!

But any top dog can get complacent. JJP wouldn't exist if it weren't for that, and perhaps maybe deeproot wouldn't exist if not for the fact that BOTH companies have significant strengths, but also as significant failings. Mishmash them together, and maybe you have an ideal....

But even at that, JJP, with Wonka's release, feels more like a geriatric version of Stern. Wonka is in no way as Innovative as Dialed In was, nor as masterful as POTC.

Stern is unreal at manufacturing and pushing games out routinely, but as Panzer said, quantity at some point doesn't equate to compelling games. They all start to blend in. And for that point, I'm glad JJP is as slow as they are, but any less than 1 game per year is a disaster in this competing market with Stern.

deeproot could come out swinging in Year One, or they could come out as repetitive and inconsistent. But as someone that is hopeful for pinball, I'm looking towards the former.

Edit: Spooky is dull and unimaginative at best, and American Pinball produces quality craftsmanship, but along with hohum products.

Huh?? is all I can say there...

Stern would be stupid to ignore competitors. Look at how seriously Williams competed against Capcom with the whole theatre of magic rush production to thwart sales of pinball magic. Trying to target and outperform competitors is routine business: beat them or buy them. Avengers' production was fast, and I'd agree that it was probably too get quick sales before the market opens up. I'm betting Gary sells the company within the next year. The monopoly is going to disappear, and the cost cutting well has dried up.

Really?

R&M probably going to end up having the best theme integration of any pinball ever made.

Blend in? Maiden, Dead Pool, JP, Turtles and now Avengers? Give your head a shake.

That has absolutely nothing to do with why I said "What".
Then again I'm quite used to u making any post into a apology for JJP weakness or Stern bashing or just general horseshit. So I'll use it here as well.
What?

Better than Hobbit?

Or woz?

Can u please name me a released Deeproot game. What strength's do they have? U know in this business its not irregular for a company to release a game or 2 then die.

RAZA has been in the works for 8 years. I wonder if its going to be any good at all. But releasing a game every 8 years is not a good model. I feel like RAZA will be underwhelming.

Wow.

Stern doesn't have a competitor right now, stop with this shit. This isn't Stern army fanboy rederick either and for 2 reasons, I don't particularly enjoy Stern themes and thus stay away from most releases, 2nd, fuck them. Jesus H. there's American P and Spooky and JJP all around for years yet they haven't affected the Stern Juggernaut. Just the way it is and doubtful it will change anytime soon. I'm not saying they aren't aware of other manufactures or even release dates but I doubt its of any real concern.

Integration is over rated if the pin isn't fun to shoot (Hobbit)

Sorry you feel this way. I'm the opposite I have owned Hobbit for over 4 years and find it's a total blast.

I can agree we have different tastes. Cheers.

Edit , my mistake not checking your collection.
You have some great pins, and some I own but you have the upgraded version . Just a difference of opinion on Hobbit. Cheers.

Hazoff not signaling you out as I have read a lot of post where people say (insert pinball company here) isn't worried about (insert pinball company here). Anyone in business, no matter how much of a juggernaut they are, are worried about their competition. If you're not worried then you're setting yourself up for failure or to be taken over some day!

Look at Stern and JJP, both companies are around today only due to investors coming in and saving them. The companies Jack and Gary built/ran are no longer theirs. Does anyone think Stern isn't concerned over JJP or at a minimum looks at what JJP is producing and learns from it? When another pinball company pops up one would think Stern and JJP both are looking into said company and learning what they can about them.

Wasn't long ago Stern was the only pinball manufacturer in the world and now we have at least a half dozen. Sure those other companies don't put out several machines a year or even every other year but add up the number of machines released by all of the boutique companies and that is all lost revenue for Stern.

The day will come when this hobby of ours plateaus and sales aren't what they use to be. We will see companies go under or merge with other companies!

On a side note, people say JJP is behind Stern as the second pinball manufacturer ..... can we really say this when American Pinball was established in 2015 and has released 3 games when JJP was established in 2011 and has released 5 games? Some will argue that AP's games aren't up to the level of Stern or JJP so they're still a boutique but how many games has Stern released where we were all like .... yeah I'll pass?

I own Hobbit and would've agreed with you before JJP released the last software update. I often thought about selling it but I bought the title more for my kids so I hung onto it. In short ... give it another try but make sure the game you're playing has the latest software.

Sorry, that would be TBL.

Lost revenue from other companies in the same field is impossible to avoid, there's no way to eliminate that without monopolizing the entire pinball market, what I'm saying is the boutique manufactures of which JJP is one doesn't affect Stern's business in anyway that would cause them concern. Here's the thing, I wish these companies would because competition will only result in better games all around.

Yes, blend in. There's only so much variety possible by any manufacturer. If I sat down at a table, and five restaurants served me a burger, even if I was hungry, at the end of tasting each burger, I'd probably not really crave one for a few days. JJP, too fee releases, Stern, too frequent. Palette starvation versus palette bloating.

I mean, if you love R&M, sure! For me that game is somewhat physically barren. Only physical aspect that speaks to the show is a literal off the shelve springy toy. The clips, via limited modes at this point, grind away after awhile, and their usage is never subtle. It's just...here's plastered full screen video. It's an unimaginative presentation of the license in many ways, and in many ways it isn't. The playfield, backglass art is really great, but for some reason all of it looks washed out.

Yes. I don't really enjoy any Spooky game yet. I guess I'm glad they exist for competitive sake, but I haven't played a game of theirs yet, that I'm happy exists in the world. R&M was the first game I really hoped would break that mold, and it hasn't yet for me. The initial non plunge, plunge even feels like a dull, listless way to start the game.

American Pinball, just can't put all the pieces together yet either.

There are millions of films in the world that exist. I like few of them. Same goes for pinball. Fantastic when products exist, but I'm not going to fawn over something if I just feel it's adequate. I also don't really even understand home ownership really, as a home owner.

R u ok?
I don't what to make of this. Maybe its time to lay off the drink or smoke or whatever ur doing.

Let's be honest here, Hazoff is right, for the time being, however what I see is JJP having a rather long time between themes or releases for a couple major reasons. One, and the most obvious is they are moving to become more competitive with Stern and two they are changing their business model which was long over due. They will be selling the next tittle and delivering the next tittle when you see the next tittle. That is a complete change towards the Stern model and I for one think it's long over due and the only way they will survive in this business. I know they have an endless supply of IP on tittles that will last them decades and this change will help with their sales big time. The pain they feel now was bound to come sooner or later.