work in progress i find the correct method to reproduce the waterfakk effect.

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

Sorry for the video is only 2 second short, on youtube click right mouse button to check loop feature.

here the discussion about my challenge

https://arcademania.eu/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=29622&start=80

in the next month i work every day and night to making this.

i have found the right method to reproduce the waterfall effect, the emboss method is wrong and cant work (similar to my old video)

the approach is a different method based to a better technique to move light refraction on the foil.

sorry for my terrible english!

for now im working hard to make a more complex test.

It's a loop because I created a system to simulate the light bulbs in my style, with a mask that moves manually, so I had to make a video like that (I'm not a cyborg!)
The result is not the same, but there is, as it is a test done so, let's say incomplete and incorrect.
The movement of the water should be more downward, but it was not possible to do it, technically now, in this way.

As soon as I get home I try a variation that, if my calculations are correct, should make the water fall.

the video is small because I added a layer a few cm in size, so the video is so close.

Already the next should be, I hope, better.

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

Here my second test,

my little test put in a compositing to see the final effect

There is still a lot of work to do but we are starting to see the first results!

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

Thanks!
but is not properly a lenticular work.

one solution about lenticular work is to use H3D System printing.

In this case, i think, is possible to make a layer whith a high range of frame for a smooth animation.

But this topper use other "old" techonology

In this week my friend (he have an original topper, my test are made whitout this) help me whith macro picture of the topper.

This is important, for me , to understand how the light and shadow is forced to move.

Hi grb!
thank you for the reference!
can help my on this very hard challenge?

Can you make a very close video of the topper in action? From distance of about max 10 cm from camera?????
You have original #194 bulb o led version?

Thank you Gord!

fishbone
the original topper is only a printed foil.
The animation is made by light bulb sequence.

this is my current work in progress and just one idea for a modding solution (its possible for me to create also a winter edition of this...)

best view in hd 720p on youtube

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

work in progress

its very very hard to recreate this topper.
Its made by aliens???

i hope, in the next months, to find a solution to make better waterfall effect.
Because the original have hologram print inside to give the illusion of many frames.

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

big news!

the waterfal coming to move correctly....it is a light question!

i have buy today #194 bulb, but i not have pinball and light board....damn!

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

im very very happy to show this, after very hard crazy work for my mind, night and day!

is a test to see if i am on a right way....

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

another test

water up and down, like the original topper

I publish these images according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

I'm glad you're following my work. In one way or another, in the future, I hope, that everyone will have their topper.

Shortly a video of the sequence of lights that I was designed by a friend of mine engineer. As soon as I arrive I can devote myself to completing the project.
In addition I will also make the curved structure realize by a blacksmith friend.

light sequence work in progress....thanks to seventy year old engineer Enzo!

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

I'm waiting for these lights to come to my house, so I can continue my work and finish it.

As a child I am passionate about art and special effects. My father painted and grew up in an artistic context. For this reason I knew I had the right background to try to solve this puzzle ...
I hope everything works perfectly, although it is a handmade work with so much passion!

I just want to put an end to the problem of an incomplete pinball because I do not find it right.

So, finally, everyone can be happy!

For this reason I show every step, so you can clearly show the result achieved.

I ask you only one thing.

I enrolled on pinside and in 1 year my registration will expire. If anyone can make sure to stay here and I will be grateful!

Remember me in 1 year!

Next week light sequence board arrives at home, and, for me, begin the "journey to become a hero"!......i hope...

Hi guys, I would like to clarify something.
This project was born by chance, for a bet with a friend. He said it was impossible to do and I said it could be done.

If I can get a 90% faithful result to the original, I will be happy to make not only my friend happy, but also all of you.

But it is a completely handmade work. (the waterfall effect)

Now, if the original costs X, mine can never cost X.
It will have to cost a lot less.
Because the original will always be the original, even if I could make it identical with a time machine!

I have not yet quantified costs, I have no distributor, I'm just a guy who has planned to make this topper and that's it.

I think it's just a price that can allow everyone to be able to buy it one day, but that also repays all my sacrifices and manual work to make every single topper.

I can only tell you this:

all previous attempts to make the topper are incorrect.

This is because they have not used the correct technique to recreate the water that falls and the effect of the bubbles that rise.

The effect of the waterfall, from the technical point of view, I think I managed to faithfully recreate it to 100%, because there is only one way to do it.

The difference with the original, for now, is that I did everything by hand.

My challenge was to be able to make this optical illusion, because as a child I like the effects and the art world.

The lights will be independent, compared to the original hardware (sorry), and I'll make the curved base in metal and not in plastic.

For the transparent cover I have not thought about anything.

In the end it will be the best solution available today, without the original topper.

For now, pray that everything works with the lights and materials that I'm using, that manages to get as close as possible to the original. I take a lot of myself in my work and I am a perfectionist.

I always put myself in the shoes of those who want a topper for many years.

I live in Italy and send it to the US I think it costs a little!

Sometimes I think that if something bad happens to me, right now, goodbye forever topper for another 25 years!
I'm joking, obviously!

In one way or another, I promise you that we will finally end this long and legendary story of this irreproducible topper.

Great picture, I can be useful as a reference!
This is because, and if I think about it is absurd, I'm making this titanic enterprise to recreate the topper starting only from the study of photographic material and videos that send me friends or that I find online.

Unfortunately I have never touched both the pinball and the topper, and if I can do it, this will be an epic thing!

I have seen that many make the winter modding versions of the white waters, and since I like drawing (I am also a graphic designer) I could make a version of the winter waterfall with snow and ice. If someone would like it!

Now I'm working on these steps:

As soon as I get the lights, cross my fingers that everything works as I calculated;

Let me have a curved back made by a blacksmith

Check that everything works at about 2 meters in height, as a visual field and that the light reflections are good.

For now I have calculated that to achieve the effect of the movement of the waterfall on the sheet I should take between 3 - and 5 days of work ...

It is, frankly, very strange that Dennis does not remember such a thing, because the printing process is one of a kind and only one company in the world could do it. It is the only company that has invented this printing process and the patent is theirs.

I'm contacting this company, these days, even to try to get the exact same print.
I hope that they listen to my requests, also because the big companies usually work only on large orders of number of pieces to be printed.

The type of industrial printing should be cheap, and the price could be very low for everyone.

Otherwise I would have to open a kickstarter project, but I would not like this idea, because right now there would be little time for it.
Unfortunately, between family and work, time is always short ....

I imagine that many would be curious to know other information. But if I said openly, as the waterfall does to move, based on what principle, what is called the type of print and who could print the topper, many would speculate on this information and my hard work to discover all these things.

But if I do not succeed, for one reason or another, in this venture, do not worry.

The main reason that pushed me to do it is to help you in this problem that concerns you for years.
Finally find a solution.
Then I remind you that everything was born as a game.

So, if I do not have to be satisfied with the result, one day on my blog I will publish detailed information on everything, with the explanation of this mixed topper, the name of the technique, detailed photos and how I made it all, information on who could print it , so that a company that works in the pinball industry can say to invest money to make this print.

I do not come from the pinball world, I also have other interests, so I would do this for you. I would never take this secret with me to the grave!

Whysnow i read your story in your profile.
You have a great passion for the pinball.
Pinball is your life and you are lucky because your family help you, every day, to make great this passion!

A good news and a bad news!

beginning with the bad news ..
They answered me from the company that uses the topper printing method. (In recent years, many companies have bought and sold this company, I believe on the verge of bankruptcy).

They told me that they had closed the business branch they had acquired, in short, nothing to do. I asked him if they knew another company that could use their printing method and are waiting for an answer.

The good news.
I got the lights and they work well!

But I had to do a micro test on another material because I did not get what I was hoping for.

Then I said to myself: now I do not have to give up.

I dug in the drawer of my desk, where I had a sample of a material not yet tested. It is in fact the best one for this technique, which idiots not to have arrived at this conclusion before. But you know, you have to make a lot of mistakes to learn!

Result of the small and fast test:
From 2 meters in height the waterfall moves, which gave me problems with the previous material. A huge problem solved!

Now, however, I have to redo from scratch a final test on this new material, hoping everything is ok.

If I do not see and touch with my hand, I am the first to not believe it!

Once you've done that, of course, I'll show you a video of how it's seen. I think I will have work between lighting and drawing of the design for about 2/3 weeks.

Cross your fingers

Update

they answered me.

They told me that they are sorry.
They have closed forever and no one can produce that kind of print.

Knowing the technique, I managed to replicate it manually. So nothing is lost.

Luckily!

Now I'm in touch with one of the greatest experts in Italy that maybe could help me, because it deals with a type of very similar prints.
Always for the speech to make them faster.

It is a pity that a historic company, which invented many years ago this innovative printing technique has closed. But I am sincere. I've been a graphic designer for 20 years, and neither my colleagues nor I knew this technique and this company.

Shame to be too late!

But nothing is lost, because there are my videos that show that you can get the same effect by doing everything by hand with hard work.

This is the demonstration that God exists!

Today I wanted to send a message asking if the pinside members could send me very close pictures and videos of the topper. As you well know, I do not have any type of pinball machine at home and the only friend I know who has an original wh2o topper is 800 km from home.

I can not say if and between how long I will complete the project. But Rygar, you will remain in history for helping me! Looking closely at the topper will make me discover many things, and maybe it will help me to improve my work!

Rygar unfortunately I live in Italy and I'm sorry for the shipping costs .... I do not know how to thank you .... when I finish it will be a pleasure to return the topper! The original will also be very useful to see how it behaves with my lights ...

I'm moved ... it's incredible all this, it's true, I always thought that it was not right that no one had managed to do a job like that. To me it involves many sacrifices, time that I can dedicate to my family, spending little money, I just hope to be able to do a good job, to get closer to the original topper.

I can not promise to be able to clone the original topper, because as you know, the only company that could try it has closed forever. But I promise you that I will do my best to try and do the best job possible.

Rygar thank you so much! God bless you!

Davi,
Thank you! I have equipment to see strong enlargements, but if I need it, I will gladly contact you!

I'm making new tests. Compared to the previous ones there is a noticeable improvement, as the animation of the water is visible from any angle.

The kit of lights that my friend Enzo has made me are perfect, and I can not wait to test them on the original topper that the great Rygar is sending me.

I am also experimenting with a new pattern of water movement to get a better movement in the effect of falling water.

work in progess

https://vimeo.com/312273354

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

Thank you all guys!
Now I'm adding bubbles under the waterfall.
Maybe I'm doing another test from scratch, after this, because I still want to improve the movement of the waterfall in the middle.
As soon as I get the original that the mythical Rygar kindly sent me, I will be able to make some serious and precise comparisons, and understand more.

I think I created a movement of water in the central part thicker and dense than the original. This is why I would like to see if I can do even better.

Then I wanted to win a challenge against myself, to do it without ever having seen and touched the original!

I do not think my waterfall is better than the original, seriously! Is not that by chance someone has burnt out some lightbulbs and it does not work well?

I used 12v 3w bulbs. I know perfectly that the originals are from 14v. For a mistake they sent them to 12v and so now it works like this. If it does not go well I will have to make myself realize from scratch, from my friend Enzo, a card for that electric voltage.

Everything is still being tested, as you well see.
I saw that in the past "someone" took money in advance without ever showing a real movie of his work.
This is an incorrect way of working.

I am glad that there is a lot of enthusiasm on your part about my challenge to be able to recreate this legendary and impossible topper!

Maybe for many it is something done now, but not for me!
Maybe you will not believe it, but I'm still not sure I've done a good job..this why I miss the comparison with the original pinball.

Rygar, that I can never thank him enough, with his contribution in lending me an original topper, (I hope to return it soon when it arrives) will allow me to see if I really did a good job.

Unfortunately I just received the answer from an Italian expert I had contacted that perhaps could help me to mechanically make prints for the topper.
He can not help me, he told me.

Bad luck, now I'm doomed to make every hand-made topper!
It has now become an artistic work for me. In the sense that if I make two topper, they will never be identical, just because they are made by hand.

However the topper will do the same!

20190120_222350 (resized).jpg

I publish these images according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

Thanks Rygar!

Beautiful photos!

A friend of mine in Italy, Nik, showed me some very similar pictures. But seeing and doing tests and comparisons with a real topper surely my work will improve, it's a mathematical fact!

As for the PPS talk, I can only say that, as far as I'm concerned, I'm doing an artistic work, as it is my hands and my brain that, manually and very slowly, are making this topper.
The reference is for the part of the animated waterfall.

To make a topper it takes many days of work, considering that I do it in my spare time.
So, if I wanted to make a topper to the maximum of my ability, doing a super precise job, increasing the detail even more, surely I could achieve maximum 2 per month, not more.

Then maybe one day I also find a solution not to do them by hand and save time, but to find this solution I should do other experiments and block everything to experiment with a different production technique. I would have a half idea, but I do not know if it works and then, I think, it would take me at least 6 months or 1 year, without knowing if it works.

For now I continue manually.
Even in the original technique there was a manual process, as it is not a job that can be done on the computer.
And this has been said by those who until recently were the inventors of this unique printing process.

its true.
the original is the original.

for us, in Italy, ancient things have a much higher value than new ones. The originals are always better than reproductions.
If then maybe I can make it identical, or (maybe!) Better .... who knows!
For me this adventure continues every day, for you all!

It will be very difficult already to make it identical to the original, it will perhaps be impossible to do it better!

When Rygar's original topper arrives, I'll find out what you can do and improve.

I am a very fussy person and I am still not satisfied with the result, because I think I can push myself even further with the work, I can do even better, but working more slowly.

When I have studied the original topper and done my best I will tell you: this is the best I could do, do you like it? Can it be good for you?
That's all!

Guys, Rygar's topper just arrived, 5 minutes ago.
Thanks again Rygar, I hope to do my best!

I feel like Indiana Jones in front of the Ark of the Covenant ...

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!

Teaser

I'm uploading comparison videos ...

whereas the work done to date was without ever having seen the original ...

Can I say that my little waterfalls have a better movement than the original?
It seems so to me!

first compare test version 5.5 vs original

in this video a think that my little waterfall move more better than original.

now i can study the original topper to make better bubble and central waterfall!

https://vimeo.com/313464648

I publish these images according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

Thanks, I'm already at work, experimenting with variations on my technique, taking cues from the original topper!

I illustrate how I want to organize the work in the coming months.
Forgive my bad English!

If I realize everything by hand this waterfall can finally be done.

Now that I understand that I can believe in my abilities and that I have the original to know if I'm doing a good job, phase 2 can start for me.

So the prototype of the previous video is now a draft and I can try my hand in realizing a real topper.

I decided to work this way, as if every topper was a handmade piece of art.

So I will realize them with care and extreme slowness.
On this I can not do anything about it, I have no other solutions that I can experience now.

And experimenting with solutions could make me lose money and years.

Yesterday a printer who has 30 years of experience told me, after seeing the original Rygar topper, who can not understand how they could have made it.

This shows that, sometimes, doing a job with other methods (hands!), Can be better than solutions entrusted to the machines.

The original is printed on a single surface, offset printing + reflecting part of the waterfall. As you know, after 25 years, bubbles are created, the print is deformed.

In my case, however, I will use a plate much more resistant than the original, which therefore can not make bubbles or deform.

On this plate there will be the print (applied or direct, I'm still seeing) of the mountains (maybe even in winter version!)

The curved plastic shape of the topper will be made of steel or similar material. Then I'll have to see how to fix the lights and the card.

The lights work with 16 12V 3W bulbs and a 12v 5a 60w power supply.
The lights are independent of the pinball machine. It's just a game of lights.

The first topper that I will make will be my gift for my friend Sonnycor, a famous Italian pinball restorer, the one who gave me the idea for this challenge. It's also thanks to him if I'm doing all this!

Surely it will be a great beta tester to understand if I have done a good job.

I will continue to publish more and more videos, from various angles, always with the comparison of the original.

This is because I think it's right for everyone to see how work proceeds and that things work, without surprises!

I want to be clear with everyone
As already said I'm doing this because born of a bet, a game, a challenge.

When I ordered the original bulb, to make me prepare the card by my friend Enzo, by mistake, or because they were not available, I never understood, I sent these to 12v.

I did not want to waste time and I had the board prepared myself.

If you want you could also use the original light bulbs, although I think the result of these is excellent.
But I should have a new board created by Enzo.

The important thing is that they are incandescent and that they move in a certain sequence.

Now I do not know whether to use those from 14v is a really convenient advantage.

Zene I will tell you more, if there was a way to get the lights that move physically, you would get an even smoother movement .... in theory doubling the lights you should reach fluency at all.
Like my tests done with a light bulb in my hand.

I could also experiment, but I do not want to waste time on something else!

yes, my topper work with 12v incandescent bulb and, but not tested, I think sure it work with 14v #194 bulb.

The light moviment illusion is the same.

led I dont think work, because the led light is a ray and not a light sphere (incandescent bulb).
in this case (led) the waterfall effect is not visible on any angle, but only to front view.

and if you see from down to top when you play pinball, the waterfall don't move

Here I am, I took days off from the project, a bit 'I had a fever, a bit' I had to think about the family.

After the last full immersion it was right for me to take a moment, to organize the ideas on what to do ...

I have just contacted a printer, to do a good job on the graphic part of the waterfall, that of the rocks.
In the next days I will see to meet with him, to show him everything.

First a small premise.
I do not like things that do not last over time or those products that then break. I believe that if something is done well, with the right materials, the objects created by man can last many years.

As I had already mentioned, I will use a slab that will last forever, which will not make bubbles or folds. The original topper, on the other hand, is printed on a layer more similar to paper or cardboard, with the embossed layer being further imprinted, which makes the waterfall move through a patented technique that is very difficult to reproduce.

So, if everything goes according to my plans, I will get a waterfall on a practically indestructible material, which will last, I hope, for centuries. So, even when I'm gone, these topper will continue to exist for the next generations of pinball lovers. At least I hope all this!

I ask you the patience to wait the time I need to do all this, I think a couple of months.

Then I would like to understand one thing:
some of you, I thought I understood, only need the curved part with the waterfall above, others need the sequence of lights and the waterfall. It's so true?

Thanks Zene you were very clear!
So, if I understand correctly, there are also those who need only full adhesive ....

My intentions are these:
1 - make the sticker complete with graphics and waterfall plus a winter modded version designed by me.

2 - also make a version with the curved structure, in metal, with the adhesive already mounted

3 - as above complete with light kit (excluding power supply for those located in the USA, because in Europe we have a different frequency of electric current)

As always, I update you on the project.
I talked to a printer friend, for the speech of the graphic part to be printed (the background with the mountains).
Soon, in a few weeks, I will carry out the first tests.
This is because I will use a sheet of aluminum rigid but at the same time thin and flexible on which I will then go to manually realize the waterfall. It is not something that can be torn with your hands!

By printing directly on the aluminum the problem of bubbles and ripples that afflict the topper over the years will disappear forever.

Because even if, after several years of humidity, the adhesive was detached, the design of the waterfall would remain intact and it would be enough to replace the double-sided adhesive tape.

I would rather avoid other printing solutions that could give problems over the years.

If you have the original topper you can make comparisons with this vinyl. Many printed things can look like topper, but then they are not the same thing.

I have an email from the business sales manager of the company who had invented this type of printing and assured me that they have closed that business branch forever and nobody else can make those prints. (as the machines have also made them, I assume). They just said good luck with the project!

If I did not tell the truth, why was this topper not reproduced in recent years? In my opinion, up until 7/8 years ago there was a hope, since the company is still in business. Twisted Pins, probably also turned to a branch of their company in Germany, at the time existing (from the research I did). Probably something went wrong, in the sense that they certainly made some mistakes in the construction phase, or they wanted to use a hybrid system.

But of this I can not be sure, it may also be that at that time, turned to another printing company in Germany that had nothing to do with the correct method of printing.

If then tomorrow morning a company could make the topper I would be the first happy for you all and I would have a lot of free time to devote myself to other projects!

I still have not done any kind of calculation on the cost. The materials used are obviously not gold-plated! But for me it's a hobby, I do not have a company.
I have to understand how many hours of work it takes to finish one and then decide a right price that suits me and for you.

Certainly not a price like 800 dollars but not even 80 dollars!
I hope to succeed in a range between 150 and maximum 450 euros, considering in this range also the full version of lights.

But it's just an idea, because, frankly, I want to concentrate on making it and doing it well. There will be time to decide!

Then if you want to suggest your opinions I will be happy to listen to you!

I do not know if I give the idea! I would like everyone to have it, but also to be rewarded for my efforts and sacrifices, especially for the time that I take away from my family.

If it were possible for me to make it in series not by hand, for sure it would cost the whole half ....

Obviously this project is born as a bet with a friend.
So I consider it a private project for educational purposes.
It is not my intention to infringe on any copyright or profit.

Jab, thank you!
I am convinced that if any industrialist in the printing world wanted to make this topper, without a shadow of a doubt, with a minimum study perhaps it would succeed. At most it could acquire the company that was able to make it happen.

But I think we need too much money for something like that and nobody would make such a crazy investment.

Then everyone would like to achieve something with minimum effort and maximum profit.

If I showed you how I realize them I would think that I am crazy, because with my left hand I hold a magnifying glass and with my right hand I work. It's like those works of the past, like making a painting, a miniature or making a Japanese sword.

Also the original topper has been made (a part of the process of realization of the master) manually.
I, however, for each topper, it is as if I should always do a new master.

This is why no one has ever succeeded.

Im working on it...
winter edition topper, i hope you like it!

winter preview (resized).jpg

I publish these images according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

next days start printing.
because for 95% I almost finished restoring the graphic part for printing.
I had to take several pictures and touch up the folds and ruffles of the original that gave me Rygar.
So I think I'll finish this evening and in the week I can send the file for the press.

It took me more time because my daughter was not well. But now the high fever has passed. (40°C...!)

but i don't think explain how its made!
if you have the magazine post this interview for us!

Yes, there is a hope!

I update you on the latest news.
In about ten days the first test will be ready concerning the design printed directly on the metal sheet.
There was a delay of the ink supplier. Sorry!

  Only the graphic will be printed (it is not a pvc sticker, otherwise it would have been ready for some time!), Then I will have to manually realize the part related to the movement of the waterfall.

If the test goes well, I can complete the job for my friend!

And finally make the first topper after so many years!

see below

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This project was born as a bet with a pinball restorer friend.
So this is my work of study and research on how the effect of the fall of water from the waterfall was achieved.
  The images and videos published are for research, study and sharing purposes.

In Italy there is a law that allows me to publish copyrighted material for this purpose.

I publish these images / videos according to the law in force in Italy
Law of 22 April 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little update.
I did carry out tests with a screen printing.
Now, having the original rygar topper, I was able to make an honest comparison. Screen printing, as you know, was once used to decorate pinball and arcade. But it is a type of printing that offers a lower resolution than an offset or digital print.
You will have understood that I am a very stubborn and fussy person ...
Screen printing has the advantage of lasting over time, of not making bubbles, etc.
When I say time I think of many years. But I am not satisfied with the aesthetic result. If you look at it from about 2 meters it's ok. If you look closely, you see the print screen.
Screen printing is a manual printing process and therefore cannot be as precise as digital or offset printing.
For this reason I will have another digitally printed test done with a cutting plotter on 3M film, which should guarantee me a better aesthetic result.
I tell you these things because photos often deceive people's eyes, and this is not the right thing.
Also because those who have never seen the original might think that it's a great job.
Then maybe for many it will be fine, I don't know that.
We say that screen printing has an aspect of "old style" printing.
Anyway, I'm waiting for this test on 3M film, so I can decide what's best.
I publish the photos with a comparison between serigraphy and offset of the original.
Obviously the engraving process is still missing on mine.

I also enclose an image resulting from the work of scans of Rygar's original topper.

I have a 600 dpi cmyk file to which I made the necessary color corrections.
Unfortunately, the screen printing did not give me a good resolution and chromatic response.

filepsd (resized).jpg

compare1 (resized).jpg

compare2 (resized).jpg

compare3 (resized).jpg

compare4 (resized).jpg

As for the movement of the waterfall, I managed to perfect it, including the bubbles. All this thanks to the topper who loaned me Rygar.
As soon as I finish this work I will publish a video.

I am very happy with this improvement, now it is even more similar to the original.

Hi everyone, I'll update you on what happened in the last few days.

As you know this project is born for a bet with a friend. Make it an impossible thing, the white water topper.

But I always thought that it was not right that only he had (my friend) one day this topper, but that all the people in the world could complete their pinball machine.

This is why I thought of publishing my results on Pinside.

A few weeks ago I was contacted by Rick of PPS for a legal copyright infringement problem.
As everyone knows, copyright belongs to Williams and therefore to PPS.
Only they can market Williams products.

I explained to Rick my good faith in the success of this project.
Rick was a very helpful person.
He understood the passion I am putting into this project, which is not born to do business.

I, unfortunately, have not yet found a solution for mass production. It means that it would be impossible to make many topper by hand with my method. And then, very importantly, I would never be allowed to sell them myself because of copyright.

Above all, I am a serious person who respects the law and I would never harm Williams!

However there is a problem to solve for everyone, for Williams and for those who own the pinball machine. Being able to recreate this topper in an economical way.

This is why Rick has given me permission to be able to continue my work on Pinside!

Rick was an extraordinary person who didn't want to stop my research work on Pinside. Thanks Mr. Rick from me! (and I believe also from Pinside!)

Obviously every image I will publish on Pinside will always be with the permission of PPS - Williams, but with the clause on my part that I cannot make any sales.

I think that's right.
I think it's the right thing for everyone.
I believe it is right to have a quality product, at a correct price, not at a crazy price.

The right thing for everyone is that I succeed, now, I don't know when, to find an economic system to do mass production.

I don't know if I will succeed, but I can commit myself to doing it.
Especially thanks to the strength that Pinside gives me.

Now my steps will be the following:

Continue my research work on Pinside, publishing with the permission of PPS Williams but without being able to make any sales to individuals or companies.

To finish what I was doing a few weeks ago, to see, meanwhile, the result achieved with the manual technique.

Start studying an alternative production system, for the good of all!

PPS through the official Italian partner Pedretti Gaming they offered me assistance and support for whatever I needed. Pedretti Gaming has all the original pieces and can also carry out modifications on the curved structure, for example, on my instructions.

I'm looking for some company specializing in engravings, but here in Italy no one has ever helped me.
I haven't gone beyond manual processing yet.
Even a hybrid solution would not be bad.

I can tell you, first of all, to always ask Rick's permission of PPS, for what you would like to do.
Of course if we combine all our strength, maybe together we can succeed.
But we must know, however, that in the end the final product, the permission to carry it out, and who will be able to market it, are all things that concern exclusively PPS.

For now we are far from a solution to be printed easily and quickly. For example, I need more time, but I'm working on it.

Woody76, if you have talk with Rick, and Rick give you ok, give you the permission, i can help you.
And we can help PPS and the community.

Whysnow I thank you for the suggestions you always try to give me.
But my point of view is this.

My project is not stopped because of Rick, in fact, thanks to Rick he can only improve. It has been stopped during these weeks because I also have a family and other problems to think about.
I'm not interested in getting into the pinball business.

Why thanks to Rick the project can improve?
Rick put me in touch with his Italian partner who can offer me what I need. I have already talked to them and, for example, if I need a curved base of the different topper, this company can make it come true, all to improve the final product and make it work.

For the rest I don't care about the business of the pinball world, but only this project.

Returning to the project.
I have pvc printing of the graphics of the falls that satisfy me compared to the previous test.

For the rest I'm trying to figure out if a company can help me with my method, which is not based on materials that are used to print.

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

The project continue after a pause!

In the video my hand made version, with the new pattern I studied thanks to Rygar's topper.
Thanks again, Rygar!

As you can see, it also moves without the sequence of lights.
The only light source is the chandelier in my kitchen!

Below an enlargement of the original topper.
On the right each notch is 1mm

20190610_213331.jpg

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

Water up and down

sorry for the video quality

Now I'm sure I've done a good job.

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

BIG NEWS! BIG NEWS!!

I am happy to tell you that perhaps there is a hope of creating a massive topper reproduction.

I just contacted a company that has the latest technology and is specialized in doing what I want.

It is a hope because I have not seen anything in person yet, but from the phone call I just made they have everything they need to try to make the waterfall.

From the technological point of view it seems that they can recreate what I made by hand.

You know that until I see, I don't believe.

So now I can start preparing little tests, which, of course, if they go well, I'll show you.

Fingers crossed!

P.S.

I know you're all waiting, be patient, time passes quickly!

I'm doing it in my spare time because I have a family and a job. If I'm slow for you I'm sorry.

I'm not doing tagging or crap like that. All this offends me, work, passion, lost time.

It is a very difficult and slow job, because you need to recreate about 150000/200000 signs engraved.

For this reason I'm working on an alternative, but even in this case, I have to do a digital master and it will take some time to do tests.

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

White Water handmade topper final

Test

https://vimeo.com/362960190

----------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to make a comparison with the original topper, without hiding anything, to really show what I managed to do.

Maybe it won't be like the original, but with this manual technique I managed to get it.
Maybe I can think of another idea to improve the work.

I take this opportunity to thank you:

www.arcademania.eu where this project was born, thanks to all the staff and forum users who encouraged me!

Thanks to Nik for the photos of the original topper and for giving me the measurements, Sonnycor for the challenge (this gift is for you, my friend!) And all the other members of the arcademania.

I thank Rygar for the original topper, without I could not have greatly improved the work!

I especially thank Mr. Rick of Williams for allowing me to continue and publish my studies on this fantastic topper.

Thanks Enzo for designing the lights sequence from scratch.

In the end, I thank the Pinside community for support, you are great people!

If I forgot someone, I apologize!

Returning to the video I wanted to show the two cascades from various angles.
I still haven't understood if I've done a good job, but it's certainly an alternative solution to the original.

The original waterfall, for me, is always the best, I hope to understand other secrets to perfect the work.

bobukcat I have to do a test with a slightly different material.
In my previous videos on vimeo, I had used another material, which reflected the light differently.

This test helped me to understand how to make the topper, and what mistakes I made. Now I understand what I have to change.

I already have in mind what to do. Use the pattern of the last video but on this material, used in a previous test, which better reflects the light and is more similar to the original.

old test
https://vimeo.com/313464648

https://vimeo.com/312918949

https://vimeo.com/312273354

It should be better, I hope!

Small update work continues ...

Finally I managed to find, crossing my fingers, what I needed.

Next week I can see if these two new materials (unfortunately one is very expensive) can still improve my work on the waterfall, in order to achieve a result similar to 95% of the original.

As usual, as soon as possible, I will update you!

Unfortunately, I have spent some terrible months because of various situations.
Life is not always beautiful.
I am caring for a sick person.
It is getting worse and I don't know how many months are left to live.

But I haven't forgotten or abandoned the topper.

And even if I fail, I will publish the techniques that I have used and the various ideas, so that someone better than me can make it happen.

That's all.

Thanks guys, for the support! Even if life is difficult, I will try with all my strength to keep the promise made.

Life must go on.

I will be like Leonidas as in the epic battle of Thermopylae!

I don't like to delude people or not keep a promise. Never give up, that's my way of thinking.

So I will make sure to update you every 15 days on the topper. Only by doing this, as a sort of progress diary, can I be sure to proceed in steps.
.................................

Picking up where we left off. (sorry for my terrible english).

In these days I will focus on the initial tests to see if mass production is feasible. The test consists in recreating on the computer what will have to be engraved by a laser. So understand what the limits of the laser are and what I can achieve.

I will do quick tests without wasting time to recreate the whole waterfall, but only some details, bubbles and falling water.
If it goes well it would be done and the possibility of obtaining an engraved and printed metal sheet of the waterfall would become reality.

I will not abandon you!

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

As I promised you, I will update you on the work in progress.

I'm finishing a small portion test of the topper, to see if I can get it done by a machine. It's all recreated on the computer and it's a grueling job.

I have faithfully recreated the bubbles from the original, now I miss completing the part of the water that falls from above.

This is, in my opinion, the best method to obtain a virtual copy of the original topper, line by line, impossible to recreate by hand with my previous technique.

This means that if I did the math well and if everything goes well, I could achieve a faithful result, I believe 95% of the original.

Next steps:
Finish the water that drops in the 10x10 cm sample test.

Have the test file engraved with various thicknesses / depths to find the correct value that gives the best results, based on the laser.

We'll update in 15 days.
Know that it is a long job to do all this.

20200305_091743 (resized).jpg

It is a patented printing process, a real ingenious invention.

The problem is that nobody is able to replicate this type of printing, because whoever invented this technique closed the company definitively, together with the machinery to make them, and who had invented them.

Let's see if I can get them done with a laser, otherwise, the last chance will be to use a process more similar to that used in the patent, by etching with acids.

The problem is precisely to replicate the texture made of infinite impressed marks. That's why I decided to redo them by hand in vector via computer. They will be, from my calculations, 250,000! It will take a long time.

Once I create this blessed file, then, I hope that in the world there is a fucking, even in the future, technology to replicate it. By hand, with the old technique, I did it, I got very close to the original.

If I fail, I will deliver the file to Rick from PPS, as it should be, also because I alone would not have the economic strength and time to travel the world to find a solution.

For now I can hope that the laser test is going well and that it is a possible solution.

Great!
YEEEEEEEEEES!
This is the printed process, yes!

Corresponds exactly to all the information I know!

Thank youuuuuuuuu JAB!

Guys, here in Italy they blocked everything until April 3 for the coronavirus. We can only travel from one municipality to another (from city to city) only for serious emergencies or business reasons.

Hi guys
my work on the topper continues.

The vectorization of the topper engravings continues, it's a slow job, fortunately I have found a way to speed up this process, but it will take a few months.

Hope to finish as soon as possible, so I can share the file with Mr. Rick.
In this way it will be easier to have chances on a mass production, greatly facilitating the work for those who manage to produce it.

Before the covid I had the opportunity to speak with an engraver who told me, unfortunately, that laser engraving with certain metals, such as aluminum for example, creates many problems. However, in practice, because of Covid, we no longer felt and did not take a test.

If I can, I'll let you know, even if I don't hope for much. However know that I do not give up, I always think of you and this topper, sooner or later will be done!

All of this is meticulous, almost impossible work.

There is a saying that says, "If nobody has ever done it, then you have to do it."

I don't ask for money for this, I do it for you to help you. You have to be very patient.

If I had to ask for money for all my time dedicated to this project, the project would probably have died, because it would have been a risky investment.

Then I ask you only to be patient and to hope that everything goes well, without haste.

And if someone manages to do it before me, I will be the first to be happy!

https://vimeo.com/133017858
Procédé Heliophore

I contacted these French gentlemen. Fingers crossed.

Shit, they haven't been producing since 2012.

"Bonjour Monsieur

Merci de l'intérêt que vous portez à l'Héliophore mais hélas nous ne produisons plus ce procédé depuis fin 2012

Bien votre
Tanneguy de JORNA

IMPRIMHELIO"

I pretend nothing and continue with plan B.

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

this is my hand made reproduction.
I think is a good start.

So the question is this.

I have the sequence of handmade lights and when I ordered the bulbs they didn't send them to me like the originals.

This video is made with the led light of the smartphone. If you see in my videos on Vimeo, you will notice old tests where I had made everything with another material almost identical to the original.

There the light reflected better. Now maybe I try to do a test with the old material, above all to understand if it is good for a mass production.

Returning to your initial question, I have already done some tests with the lights on this waterfall.

They didn't satisfy me 100%. Maybe with led lights it would be, absurdly, better? Or should I also use lights at the top as a frame? Or is it the fault of the material?

I can tell you that technically it is very similar to the original, from the test with the smartphone it behaves almost identically. (Technically 100%, from the artistic point of view there are differences)

I have to understand if the problem is the material or my lights.
Or the fact that having made it by hand I did something wrong.

I want perfection!

I'm sorry, I don't sell anything, I only deal with finding a solution. I hope you can buy it through Williams - PPS and its official dealers.

Hi Rygar
i have send pm to you about your original topper.
All ok?

Never lose hope! I've had a lot of problems, but now it's time to rethink this project in search of a solution.

I am in contact with a company specializing in laser micro-engravings.

They can engrave any material in the order of a few microns and make engravings even not visible to the human eye.

I have to prepare some small tests and I will do it in these weeks.

After a bad and difficult period, for me, due to family issues, it's time to get back to work.

I hope to keep my promise, forgive my long absence.

Rygar, you have already done so much for me!

I don't need it, I've photographed it hundreds of times.

Today I logged in here on the forum, I read some messages. I was very sorry that I stayed for 1 year. However, a new attempt, now I can do it. A company told me last year that it couldn't laser engrave aluminum.

But just today, coincidentally, I spoke to a company that does jobs with greater precision. He told me that it would cost a lot to engrave a topper of that size with that precision, and that even a laser would take hours to work.

But the owner of the company told me, after I told him my story, that he wanted to give it a try.

So now I have to write an email these days, show him some videos, send some photos and make a small sample by hand.

Then I have to finish a small vector sample to do a print test that he kindly will do for me for free.

Meanwhile, I bought a rare print with the original French heliophore method, which I discovered is not the same one used by dufex. So maybe I can discover something new!

The print is expected to reach me around April 20.