(Topic ID: 141125)

New ideas for White Water topper?

By Princev911

8 years ago


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  • 483 posts
  • 119 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by MiniPinHead
  • Topic is favorited by 72 Pinsiders

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There are 483 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 10.
#351 4 years ago

plugging in to watch progress - good luck! I can use one myself.

#352 4 years ago

awesome. exciting news!

#353 4 years ago
Quoted from Gibranx:

As for the movement of the waterfall, I managed to perfect it, including the bubbles. All this thanks to the topper who loaned me Rygar.
As soon as I finish this work I will publish a video.
I am very happy with this improvement, now it is even more similar to the original.

Looking forward to seeing a video. Pictures sometimes dont tell the whole story.

1 week later
#354 4 years ago

i just bought all the twisted pins waterfall topper holograms and the mounting plastic at a going to prison sale. they are tainted by the
twisted pin reputation but lets see if this stuff can be salvaged and used again. bought it all, lots parts, arcades, pins, side art, plastics. truck loads

#355 4 years ago
Quoted from pin-pimp:

i just bought all the twisted pins waterfall topper holograms and the mounting plastic at a going to prison sale. they are tainted by the
twisted pin reputation but lets see if this stuff can be salvaged and used again. bought it all, lots parts, arcades, pins, side art, plastics. truck loads

what all did they have?

what are they going to prison for?

#356 4 years ago
Quoted from pin-pimp:

i just bought all the twisted pins waterfall topper holograms and the mounting plastic at a going to prison sale. they are tainted by the
twisted pin reputation but lets see if this stuff can be salvaged and used again. bought it all, lots parts, arcades, pins, side art, plastics. truck loads

SCORE!!
Start a shop on pinside and unload it all.

#357 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

what all did they have?
what are they going to prison for?

A different local seller sold some taxi ramps, bunch of playfields, New black knight upper playfield, a few white water toppers, and some f14 inserts all from some twisted pins bank sell off.

#358 4 years ago
Quoted from pin-pimp:

i just bought all the twisted pins waterfall topper holograms and the mounting plastic at a going to prison sale. they are tainted by the
twisted pin reputation but lets see if this stuff can be salvaged and used again. bought it all, lots parts, arcades, pins, side art, plastics. truck loads

Toppers are useless unless you don't have one at all - then at least it looks better

#359 4 years ago

Yes agree the toppers were iffy, I remember playing with one years ago he made and they looked good but you had to change the angle of it to get better affect. I’m checking with PPS on this before we sell any to make sure about license and things. Mr twisted got busted setting odometers back on cars and selling them. And some other things I’ve heard. I got several truckloads of games and parts. Will be selling at the Tacoma show in June for starters.

#360 4 years ago

Busted for the old ferris bueller. Nice.

#361 4 years ago

I owned a NEW twisted pins topper and sold it recently. It better than the decal variant and they do look good.. until lit, the effect is just not he same as the original, the foil texturing is just not as pronounced, i went back and forth, as mine has a big crease in it, but opted to keep the orig.

#362 4 years ago

i do have several hundred of the white mounting plastic for the topper decals if and when someone makes the decal.

#363 4 years ago

Hi everyone, I'll update you on what happened in the last few days.

As you know this project is born for a bet with a friend. Make it an impossible thing, the white water topper.

But I always thought that it was not right that only he had (my friend) one day this topper, but that all the people in the world could complete their pinball machine.

This is why I thought of publishing my results on Pinside.

A few weeks ago I was contacted by Rick of PPS for a legal copyright infringement problem.
As everyone knows, copyright belongs to Williams and therefore to PPS.
Only they can market Williams products.

I explained to Rick my good faith in the success of this project.
Rick was a very helpful person.
He understood the passion I am putting into this project, which is not born to do business.

I, unfortunately, have not yet found a solution for mass production. It means that it would be impossible to make many topper by hand with my method. And then, very importantly, I would never be allowed to sell them myself because of copyright.

Above all, I am a serious person who respects the law and I would never harm Williams!

However there is a problem to solve for everyone, for Williams and for those who own the pinball machine. Being able to recreate this topper in an economical way.

This is why Rick has given me permission to be able to continue my work on Pinside!

Rick was an extraordinary person who didn't want to stop my research work on Pinside. Thanks Mr. Rick from me! (and I believe also from Pinside!)

Obviously every image I will publish on Pinside will always be with the permission of PPS - Williams, but with the clause on my part that I cannot make any sales.

I think that's right.
I think it's the right thing for everyone.
I believe it is right to have a quality product, at a correct price, not at a crazy price.

The right thing for everyone is that I succeed, now, I don't know when, to find an economic system to do mass production.

I don't know if I will succeed, but I can commit myself to doing it.
Especially thanks to the strength that Pinside gives me.

Now my steps will be the following:

Continue my research work on Pinside, publishing with the permission of PPS Williams but without being able to make any sales to individuals or companies.

To finish what I was doing a few weeks ago, to see, meanwhile, the result achieved with the manual technique.

Start studying an alternative production system, for the good of all!

#364 4 years ago

Well hopefully your research and hard work will prevail
and bring a resolution to so many people.

#365 4 years ago

We are looking for a way to get these done, so any help on that is great ... so far several attempts by some very resourceful companies and realizing that it is one of the most difficult parts to recreate (correctly) ... so looking forward to see if this exercise will help then we are all for it!

rick

#366 4 years ago
Quoted from Gibranx:

Hi everyone, I'll update you on what happened in the last few days.
As you know this project is born for a bet with a friend. Make it an impossible thing, the white water topper.
But I always thought that it was not right that only he had (my friend) one day this topper, but that all the people in the world could complete their pinball machine.
This is why I thought of publishing my results on Pinside.
A few weeks ago I was contacted by Rick of PPS for a legal copyright infringement problem.
As everyone knows, copyright belongs to Williams and therefore to PPS.
Only they can market Williams products.
I explained to Rick my good faith in the success of this project.
Rick was a very helpful person.
He understood the passion I am putting into this project, which is not born to do business.
I, unfortunately, have not yet found a solution for mass production. It means that it would be impossible to make many topper by hand with my method. And then, very importantly, I would never be allowed to sell them myself because of copyright.
Above all, I am a serious person who respects the law and I would never harm Williams!
However there is a problem to solve for everyone, for Williams and for those who own the pinball machine. Being able to recreate this topper in an economical way.
This is why Rick has given me permission to be able to continue my work on Pinside!
Rick was an extraordinary person who didn't want to stop my research work on Pinside. Thanks Mr. Rick from me! (and I believe also from Pinside!)
Obviously every image I will publish on Pinside will always be with the permission of PPS - Williams, but with the clause on my part that I cannot make any sales.
I think that's right.
I think it's the right thing for everyone.
I believe it is right to have a quality product, at a correct price, not at a crazy price.
The right thing for everyone is that I succeed, now, I don't know when, to find an economic system to do mass production.
I don't know if I will succeed, but I can commit myself to doing it.
Especially thanks to the strength that Pinside gives me.
Now my steps will be the following:
Continue my research work on Pinside, publishing with the permission of PPS Williams but without being able to make any sales to individuals or companies.
To finish what I was doing a few weeks ago, to see, meanwhile, the result achieved with the manual technique.
Start studying an alternative production system, for the good of all!

Please dont concern yourself with Rick/ PPS

If you research him, he constantly threatens about copywrite laws even when it is not feasible for him to enforce or legally questionable for many countries.
Do you research and your risk is low/ null.

Keep in mind that Rick is out to make money and that is his #1 concern. He cares little for the community as evidenced by him licensing the previous remake to twisted pins for a junk product that ran off with many peoples money and now is supposedly off to jail for other crimes.

You just keep doing you.

Call ricks bluff and let him even attempt to come after you. I am not sure of the specifics of the laws in Italy and rick holding rights in USA, but needless to say, he is just looking for a buck as usual.
There are many people that have and continue to make stuff overseas with no enforcement.

#367 4 years ago

adding, he has ZERO right to tell you what photos you can publish here!
be warned that what you do publish it is always possible/plausible that he will take the info and steal your hard work to make the product for himself...

#369 4 years ago

My thoughts exactly - I don't express stuff like that because I still need to buy parts.

#370 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

We are looking for a way to get these done, so any help on that is great ... so far several attempts by some very resourceful companies and realizing that it is one of the most difficult parts to recreate (correctly) ... so looking forward to see if this exercise will help then we are all for it!
rick

So did you offer Gibranx any assistance and support or just a threat and reminder that you own the copyright on this that's basically useless unless someone figures out how to make it?

#371 4 years ago

PPS through the official Italian partner Pedretti Gaming they offered me assistance and support for whatever I needed. Pedretti Gaming has all the original pieces and can also carry out modifications on the curved structure, for example, on my instructions.

#372 4 years ago
Quoted from Gibranx:

PPS through the official Italian partner Pedretti Gaming they offered me assistance and support for whatever I needed. Pedretti Gaming has all the original pieces and can also carry out modifications on the curved structure, for example, on my instructions.

Great work on this! Also, please be careful about people (especially people who are not lawyers) giving you legal advice online, regardless of what "side" they are advocating for. As a lawyer, I can assure you that no repectible legal council would advise you on something like this without investing time and effort meeting with you and analizing the law. Anyone doing anything otherwise is being reckless and that's not in your best interest.

Anyway, sounds like you are making progress and having fun regardless. Good luck and salute!

-2
#373 4 years ago

Great... now the lawyers and rick show up all looking for a cut...

So long to this project ever seeing production.

Thx for all your hard work on this. If you ever decide to just do it and need someone to help you keep it all hidden from the watchful eyes of those with their hands out but zero skill, them PM me. Happy to help you set it all up.

#374 4 years ago
Quoted from Gibranx:

PPS through the official Italian partner Pedretti Gaming they offered me assistance and support for whatever I needed. Pedretti Gaming has all the original pieces and can also carry out modifications on the curved structure, for example, on my instructions.

That's great news and I hope you can work together to figure out some way to get this to production of some sort!

10
#375 4 years ago

Lets not take this thread down with reiterated - OLD, boring, useless grudges/banter/flame wars.

If the OP is happy with WHATEVER arrangement has or has not been made, or may, or may not have been offered- thats the end of the topic. Anyone interested in PPS debates over pinball parts manufacturing can find plenty of illuminating information and yet more useless flame wars on any number of other threads. This is a cool effort- lets not ruin it.

Congratulations on figuring this out and providing a potential path to reconstruct this part. I sincerely hope its commercially viable- if its not- you still did it and thats amazing. I wish you the best of luck in all aspects.

#376 4 years ago

Would it be possible to sell a how-to video with the tools needed? That seems like a way to make it happen if mass production doesn't pan out.

#377 4 years ago

Im really curious.
How many really dont have any topper, or how many dont have an original topper?
Would love to see poll on this.
How many are truly needed?
Or, are we also including the full restore crowd in this poll?

#378 4 years ago

I don't have a foil topper.

#379 4 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Im really curious.
How many really dont have any topper, or how many dont have an original topper?
Would love to see poll on this.
How many are truly needed?
Or, are we also including the full restore crowd in this poll?

I think the big issue is bubbled toppers. They just aren't that pretty. I'm really lucky to have a nice one but the majority I've seen have big bubbles, wrinkles, or are really faded.

#380 4 years ago

Don't have a WhiteWater, but I think it would be cool to have something that looked like the paddle mechanism on this hooked up as a topper with a small motor that would make it paddle when the pops were hit.

#381 4 years ago

I have no topper and would love to get a replacement with the waterfall effect. Thanks to Gibranx for working on this!

#382 4 years ago

seems like pps would let you continue the trial and error then maybe give you a cut after they find somebody to mass produce it.

2 weeks later
#383 4 years ago

Zen studios managed to recreate it virtually (which I know isn't much effort, it could literally be 3 rendered frames), but might be good reference material:

1 week later
#384 4 years ago
Quoted from J67ab:

Are we sure the printing process is dead? This is a Procédé Heliophore record I bought last year. To me it seems to have the same qualities as the WH2O topper.
https://www.discogs.com/Aphex-Twin-Collapse-EP/release/12512500
[quoted image]

the printing process is NOT dead. Back in the day they used a die to do the foil stamping and this process is still used today. The problem is the die is expensive and if you do not get it correct on the first shot then you have to make another die and so on and on.

Now there are some new technological advances that might allow this to be done cheaper and without a die. I am currently looking to borrow a white water topper to hopefully get it figured out. I have the ability to at least try now. It would be awesome if I could get the original artwork and I could tell you within a day if it would be possible.

#385 4 years ago

I'm looking for some company specializing in engravings, but here in Italy no one has ever helped me.
I haven't gone beyond manual processing yet.
Even a hybrid solution would not be bad.

I can tell you, first of all, to always ask Rick's permission of PPS, for what you would like to do.
Of course if we combine all our strength, maybe together we can succeed.
But we must know, however, that in the end the final product, the permission to carry it out, and who will be able to market it, are all things that concern exclusively PPS.

For now we are far from a solution to be printed easily and quickly. For example, I need more time, but I'm working on it.

#386 4 years ago

Woody76, if you have talk with Rick, and Rick give you ok, give you the permission, i can help you.
And we can help PPS and the community.

#387 4 years ago

in typical fashion... Rick gets involved and the project stalls or falls apart completely.

Again, my advice to you Gibranx is to just ignore him. He is a super greedy guy that you never want to get into business with and frankly since you don't live in US he has zero jurisdiction over you, your product, or your efforts.

Most importantly he has already stolen money from bunches of pinball collectors with his previous licensed reproductions that turned out like crap, people never received, and yet he was all apart of that.

He likes to talk big, threaten legal action, and mail letter... but the reality is, he will never be able to get a dime from you.

Please just keep down the path you were on to make these, sell them as "art", and tell Rick to pound sand.

#388 4 years ago
Quoted from Gibranx:

Woody76, if you have talk with Rick, and Rick give you ok, give you the permission, i can help you.
And we can help PPS and the community.

Yea, I talked to rick Tuesday. I have worked with rick before on some stuff and he is and has always been good to work with. He has given me permission to work with you on it. We have a new press that does some cool foil stuff. I just need the waterfall effect artwork to test or I need to borrow a topper and have my designer recreate it. I sold my white water last year so I do not have a topper.

#389 4 years ago

Twisted pins ! I hope he’s taking it in the tail pipe in his new home. He caused me a lot of frustration

#390 4 years ago

Whysnow I thank you for the suggestions you always try to give me.
But my point of view is this.

My project is not stopped because of Rick, in fact, thanks to Rick he can only improve. It has been stopped during these weeks because I also have a family and other problems to think about.
I'm not interested in getting into the pinball business.

Why thanks to Rick the project can improve?
Rick put me in touch with his Italian partner who can offer me what I need. I have already talked to them and, for example, if I need a curved base of the different topper, this company can make it come true, all to improve the final product and make it work.

For the rest I don't care about the business of the pinball world, but only this project.

Returning to the project.
I have pvc printing of the graphics of the falls that satisfy me compared to the previous test.

For the rest I'm trying to figure out if a company can help me with my method, which is not based on materials that are used to print.

1 week later
#391 4 years ago

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

The project continue after a pause!

In the video my hand made version, with the new pattern I studied thanks to Rygar's topper.
Thanks again, Rygar!

As you can see, it also moves without the sequence of lights.
The only light source is the chandelier in my kitchen!

Below an enlargement of the original topper.
On the right each notch is 1mm


20190610_213331.jpg20190610_213331.jpg

1 month later
#392 4 years ago

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

Water up and down

sorry for the video quality

Now I'm sure I've done a good job.

#393 4 years ago
Quoted from pin-pimp:

Mr twisted got busted setting odometers back on cars and selling them.

So karma does exist!
Suck shit.....

1 week later
15
#394 4 years ago

With permission from WILLIAMS / PPS
Copyright WILLIAMS / PPS
Not for sale.

BIG NEWS! BIG NEWS!!

I am happy to tell you that perhaps there is a hope of creating a massive topper reproduction.

I just contacted a company that has the latest technology and is specialized in doing what I want.

It is a hope because I have not seen anything in person yet, but from the phone call I just made they have everything they need to try to make the waterfall.

From the technological point of view it seems that they can recreate what I made by hand.

You know that until I see, I don't believe.

So now I can start preparing little tests, which, of course, if they go well, I'll show you.

Fingers crossed!

P.S.

I know you're all waiting, be patient, time passes quickly!

1 month later
#395 4 years ago

tagging along <..>

#396 4 years ago

34 days. Uh oh...

#397 4 years ago

Gibranx, if you pull this off it's going to be one for the history books. So many have tried and failed.

#398 4 years ago

I'm doing it in my spare time because I have a family and a job. If I'm slow for you I'm sorry.

I'm not doing tagging or crap like that. All this offends me, work, passion, lost time.

#399 4 years ago

It is a very difficult and slow job, because you need to recreate about 150000/200000 signs engraved.

For this reason I'm working on an alternative, but even in this case, I have to do a digital master and it will take some time to do tests.

#400 4 years ago


Your work is appreciated!

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