Very nice work amici...hope you can get it to work and reproduce it for anyone who is missing a topper on his wh2o

another test

water up and down, like the original topper

I publish these images according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

Looks like your onto something here

Following - I've had a topperless Wh20 for 5 years. I'm really hoping you can get something together for us!

Any updates on this project?

I'm glad you're following my work. In one way or another, in the future, I hope, that everyone will have their topper.

Shortly a video of the sequence of lights that I was designed by a friend of mine engineer. As soon as I arrive I can devote myself to completing the project.
In addition I will also make the curved structure realize by a blacksmith friend.

light sequence work in progress....thanks to seventy year old engineer Enzo!

I publish these images/video according to the law in force in Italy
Legge 22 aprile 1941 n. 633 art. 70 - 1 bis

How's it look lighting your prototype!?

I'm waiting for these lights to come to my house, so I can continue my work and finish it.

Amazing work.

Following this with fingers crossed. I went the teekee glitter route and while its better than nothing its definitely not an original. Would really love to put something like this up on top of my game.

As a child I am passionate about art and special effects. My father painted and grew up in an artistic context. For this reason I knew I had the right background to try to solve this puzzle ...
I hope everything works perfectly, although it is a handmade work with so much passion!

I just want to put an end to the problem of an incomplete pinball because I do not find it right.

So, finally, everyone can be happy!

For this reason I show every step, so you can clearly show the result achieved.

I ask you only one thing.

I enrolled on pinside and in 1 year my registration will expire. If anyone can make sure to stay here and I will be grateful!

Remember me in 1 year!

You will be a hero in pinball if you are able to duplicate the original waterfall effects and mass produce it for a reasonable price.

Next week light sequence board arrives at home, and, for me, begin the "journey to become a hero"!......i hope...

Good luck!!

Can't wait to see the results

if he is smart then he will get paid handsomely for his efforts!

Hell, crappy old beat up but working Whitewater toppers can sell for 1k. A game without a topper is worth 1k less to most.

I would think these will fly off the shelves at $500-700. That assumes they perfectly recreate the effect. It sure looks like he is closer than anyone has ever been.

I think sales will be slow @ $5-700 at least I'd be out.

there is for sure a market for a complete topper. They sell used for 1k if you can find one.
Stern new topper junk sells for 400+
Lots of aftermarket junk for other games sells for 200+

I am curious what people think is a good $$$ spot for a 100% working, brand new, and functions like the original for whitewater topper is?

I think at $500 they sell like hot cakes to those in need.

There were 7000 Whotewaters made. I am guessing the entire market of ones with missing toppers is around 300-500 games.

Whomever makes this is likely to only sell around 100 total units, so for all the effort they should attempt to get paid for the effort IMHO.

Ive never seen a WH2O topper sell for a Grand.
Tempted to pull mine off at that price and throw in the dome too!

Neither have I

I have a nice topper... I wouldn't sell mine for $750-$1000. I think that would devalue the game by that much.

IMO: I think there's a good market for these toppers (broken, faded, stolen and just tired). My guess is approx. $500.

The Pinball Community Thanks You... if you can pull this off!

No freaking way at $5-700. Damn Whysnow are you his official north american distributor for the product? Who just wanders in and starts pulling bullshit prices out of their ass? Seriously uncool on your part.

Hi guys, I would like to clarify something.
This project was born by chance, for a bet with a friend. He said it was impossible to do and I said it could be done.

If I can get a 90% faithful result to the original, I will be happy to make not only my friend happy, but also all of you.

But it is a completely handmade work. (the waterfall effect)

Now, if the original costs X, mine can never cost X.
It will have to cost a lot less.
Because the original will always be the original, even if I could make it identical with a time machine!

I have not yet quantified costs, I have no distributor, I'm just a guy who has planned to make this topper and that's it.

I think it's just a price that can allow everyone to be able to buy it one day, but that also repays all my sacrifices and manual work to make every single topper.

Looking forward to see you progress further into this. I'd be into one for a few hundred.

what would be uncool, is not paying a dude making a handmade product with tons of skill and effort (remember, multiple previous attempts have failed miserably) a fair market price for his product.

It seems very reasonable to me that he should be able to sell these at $500 easy as they add that value plus more to any game currently missing the topper.

I can understand that if you are looking to buy one that you dont want to hear someone say that, but man to not be honest about the value of a whitewater topper is just disingenuous.

Crappy ones that are nothing more that a poorly produced sticker from Twisted pins sell for $250 easily
ebay.com link: Whitewater Pinball Reproduction Topper Williams White Water

I cant find it now but last original one I saw sold for $750 with the tub and light rig (i.e. plug and play) and it had a crack in the center of the waterfall part.

If he prices these at $500 for a plug and play version they will sell like hot cakes.
If he sells as just the foil portion like twisted pins did and it works like original then $400 easily.

It doesn't make sense to cite the highest price you've seen them sell for and claim that should be the value of a repro topper. The old argument that "something is worth what people pay" always relies on scarcity. Now, if you're reproducing them and hoping to sell them to dozens (or hundreds) of current owners, you can't really rely on what one desperate person paid on ebay as a pricing method.

I think this is less about trying to help a guy out, and more about trying to protect the value of a pin that you likely just landed in your own collection with the topper. I bought the game for the game, the topper is neat, but I'm not a buyer at gouge prices. I'm just not that worried about any topper.

No idea where you shop other than flea-bay i guess which is nothing but overpriced to cover sellers fees. I have never seen an original topper sell for $750 or $1000. One just sold here on pinside for $350 which had 1 small crease in the middle. Again you are trying to dictate the pricing for the seller. How bout you and everyone else sit back and let the man do his work. 1st we will see if he can even make something that people are willing to lay down their hard money for. 2nd how bout instead of you being a pricing forecaster we let the seller state his asking price? Im all for the guy getting reimbursed for his hard work but dont need anyone artificially inflating a price when its not even theirs to price in the 1st place.

lol. nope... still looking for a nice whitewater to add to my collection. I am with you that the topper is neat but nothing I care much about in the bigger picture.

Those crappy Twisted Pins examples have been selling easily for $250 or more each time they come up and that is only the sticker which does not have the effect.

Highest price I have seen was 1k for a nice original that was plug and play. Seen many others over the past few years for 500plus.

Supply and demand is all that matters. If someone makes this and they control the market on the supply side. To me, $500 is a very reasonable place to put them up for sale. If they dont sell at that, then always easy to run a special later on. For all the effort put in, these are a 1 and done product. Your demand is possibly 100 people looking to complete their game currently missing a topper.

Sorry you are wanting to keep the price down on this for your own personal reasons. Guessing once you add it to your game, you will value your game at at least $500-750 higher. Seems to me like the artist and creator should be getting paid fairly for the effort and skill. I am just discussing what I think it is worth.

I personally would pay $500 for a plug and play topper that works like the original and I dont even have a game to put it on. I just know that someday I will buy a whitewater and having a topper on hand is a nice thing for when a project that is missing a topper comes along.

I can only tell you this:

all previous attempts to make the topper are incorrect.

This is because they have not used the correct technique to recreate the water that falls and the effect of the bubbles that rise.

The effect of the waterfall, from the technical point of view, I think I managed to faithfully recreate it to 100%, because there is only one way to do it.

The difference with the original, for now, is that I did everything by hand.

My challenge was to be able to make this optical illusion, because as a child I like the effects and the art world.

The lights will be independent, compared to the original hardware (sorry), and I'll make the curved base in metal and not in plastic.

For the transparent cover I have not thought about anything.

In the end it will be the best solution available today, without the original topper.

Is this the decal you're talking about? I'll sell you as many as youd like at 250.

And you have no stake in this machine?

Screenshot_20190107-075617_Chrome (resized).jpgScreenshot_20190107-074543_Chrome (resized).jpg

lol

no thanks and nope.

If Stern can get 500 for a R2-D2 that’s (hate me all want) kinda ugly, then I can see 500 for a hand crafted White Water that reproduces the orginal effect. That topper practically sells the game!

Hats off to you Gibranx whatever you end up doing or not doing.

For now, pray that everything works with the lights and materials that I'm using, that manages to get as close as possible to the original. I take a lot of myself in my work and I am a perfectionist.

I always put myself in the shoes of those who want a topper for many years.

I live in Italy and send it to the US I think it costs a little!

Sometimes I think that if something bad happens to me, right now, goodbye forever topper for another 25 years!
I'm joking, obviously!

In one way or another, I promise you that we will finally end this long and legendary story of this irreproducible topper.

If you do a large production of these it *might* be worth partnering up with PBL, Marco, or similar, with a bulk shipment to them. Versus dealing with customs paperwork on every topper.

I totally admire you for taking on this issue and I and others are pulling for you to succeed especially when you don't even own this game. All work you contribute to this project is greatly appreciated by all of of who do actually own the game and do have a vested interest in a viable solution. That being said, if the end product is unaffordable for the mass majority of owners then it personally does nothing to help me. However, if it helps many other wh20 owners get a more complete game that also is a win to me in the bigger picture. I went with the glitter route on one of these from treasure cove

20180805_155611 (resized).jpg

Great picture, I can be useful as a reference!
This is because, and if I think about it is absurd, I'm making this titanic enterprise to recreate the topper starting only from the study of photographic material and videos that send me friends or that I find online.

Unfortunately I have never touched both the pinball and the topper, and if I can do it, this will be an epic thing!

I have seen that many make the winter modding versions of the white waters, and since I like drawing (I am also a graphic designer) I could make a version of the winter waterfall with snow and ice. If someone would like it!

Now I'm working on these steps:

As soon as I get the lights, cross my fingers that everything works as I calculated;

Let me have a curved back made by a blacksmith

Check that everything works at about 2 meters in height, as a visual field and that the light reflections are good.

For now I have calculated that to achieve the effect of the movement of the waterfall on the sheet I should take between 3 - and 5 days of work ...

there ya go, keep on driving the price up for everyone. let the designer decide where to price them. im sure if he can figure out how to recreate them then he can figure out what he needs in return for his time and research.

Where can we find these sales results that show repeated original toppers go for 1k?

go look around. Report back with what you find.

You made the comment. It is up to you to prove it.

nah, I linked the one twisted pins sticker from ebay recent sales for him at $250. That was readily available to find as shows you what even a crappy version that does not work costs. toppers are so rare to find that you have to dig deeper to even find old sales. When they do come up they sell quick and cost bucks. He can go dig through the ebay/clist/parts supplier archive if he wants to prove me wrong.

He is just trolling as he knows they rarely come up for sale and cost a bunch.

Guy can charge whatever he wants, But I'll bet he sells a lot more at reasonable prices.. There are a bunch of originals with huge wrinkles that would get replaced.

Ive seen wh20 toppers sell for 500-850 depending on the condition. Also a wh20 without a topper usually sells for 500-750 less than one with. Its a cool topper that people want on the game.

I have seen some originals sell, but nowhere near 1k. I just would like to know if in fact that is the value they are pulling, or if your estimation is an exaggeration. Nobody else seems to find one selling for 1k either, unless it was a private party exchange.

What have you seen them sell for?

last one I saw sell was 1k. parts complete original that looked nice

Sorry, not gonna go dig it up for you as it is not worth the effort to me.

I hope anyone that makes a good example prices it at the exact right spot where they sell a boat load of these and make some good cash for their efforts.

Seems obvious that based on responses here and what they go for now (if you can find one) that he will have little problem selling a bunch somewhere in the $350 to $700 range. Since these are all hand made I would suggest shooting high and get more per topper for the individual effort it will take.

Why make 50 toppers and sell them for $350 when you can make only 25 and sell for $700?

And this statement shows your true selfish attitude. @Whysnow "Why make 50 toppers and sell them for $350 when you can make only 25 and sell for $700? As i stated above in another post if the Op sells them and its more than I care to pay so be it at least it will help others. Your statement clearly defines your greedy stance on this matter. You stated before you don't own this game so not real sure why your input even matters. Here is a spoon why don't you take it to another group and stir your pot over there.

they are all HAND made!

I am not telling him to be greedy. I am telling him to go make some money for the product he developed that thus far nobody else has been able to, there is an obvious demand (but limited in total possible sales), and he has put a bunch of sweat equity in to, and each one requires he HAND make it!

If anything you are stirring the pot with wanting the guy to under value his hard work and skill.

How much do you really think these are worth?
How much are you willing to pay?

Again as stated above let the man produce a working product. Then let him set the price for his work. If me tbe buyer find it to be a fair price I will buy 1. Until a working product is produced its pointless to speculate the value of something that doesnt even exist yet.

Do you remember where you did see it sell? Ebay? Pinside? If you can give us a hint, I'll go looking for it. I admit I've not been lucky so far. You also said "they sell for 1k", so assuming that you have seen more than one sell for that?