(Topic ID: 141125)

New ideas for White Water topper?


By Princev911

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 412 posts
  • 105 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 76 days ago by joetechbob
  • Topic is favorited by 63 Pinsiders

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There are 412 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 9.
#51 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

Does everyone want the word White Water in the topper? Very important question.

Yes, just like it was produced at the factory as per Dennis' design.
White Water spelled in the mountains.
The water offsets the mountains and you can see the title clearly when it is lit up, if someone looks at it for more than a couple of seconds.

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

Does everyone want the word White Water in the topper? Very important question.

...how far off the original do you plan on going ?

#53 4 years ago

Well we had 2 directions.. Use Whitewater ( pay royalties ) Completely different ( no royalties ) Big difference in cost was the reason for asking.

#54 4 years ago

Whitewater as one word, is that enough to get around royalties?

Would a small mechanical raft that rides down the falls be possible. ( a printed mini raft on plexiglass at the end of a looping arm)
Or a yeti that pops up every now and again from the side/top of the mountain.

#55 4 years ago

If White Water is used there are Royalties. As for mechanical operation of things I'm not sure but that would absolutely drive the cost up royalties or not.

#56 4 years ago

I'm not sure about everyone else but I would want a reproduction one, not a reimagined one. I say that without knowing the royalty cost of course.

#57 4 years ago

We can go either way, we have ideas for both but it looks like we will do the Whitewater Logo.

#58 4 years ago

I really think that we should get on to Rick at PPS and get Twisted pins to hold onto their word for refunding or replacing the Foils
that we have already payed for.

#59 4 years ago
Quoted from Squizz:

I really think that we should get on to Rick at PPS and get Twisted pins to hold onto their word for refunding or replacing the Foils
that we have already payed for.

That's not the way it works, Twisted Pins is their own business with their own customers, and I have relayed to him that he has created issues and not refunding the customer is not ok. You can 'get on' me all you want, but unfortunately this happens more often with small pinball suppliers where their life interferes with pinball and they just 'disappear' for long periods of time due to something or another and create issues for all involved ...

#60 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

, and I have relayed

Quoted from PPS:

That's not the way it works, Twisted Pins is their own business with their own customers, and I have relayed to him that he has created issues and not refunding the customer is not ok. You can 'get on' me all you want, but unfortunately this happens more often with small pinball suppliers where their life interferes with pinball and they just 'disappear' for long periods of time due to something or another and create issues for all involved ...

Hi Rick
Thanks for the reply.

Well I really hope that you do not give them any more licences for ramps etc until this is sorted!
It is undeed really bad practice for Twisted pins and for there future sales, But it does also look poorly towards your business too.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

That's not the way it works, Twisted Pins is their own business with their own customers, and I have relayed to him that he has created issues and not refunding the customer is not ok. You can 'get on' me all you want, but unfortunately this happens more often with small pinball suppliers where their life interferes with pinball and they just 'disappear' for long periods of time due to something or another and create issues for all involved ...

Did you take any royalties from twisted pins? If so.. then maybe you do have responsibility over this debacle.

#62 4 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Did you take any royalties from twisted pins? If so.. then maybe you do have responsibility over this debacle.

No, I don't, and no I don't have responsibility for this debacle ...

#63 4 years ago
Quoted from Squizz:

I really think that we should get on to Rick at PPS and get Twisted pins to hold onto their word for refunding or replacing the Foils
that we have already payed for.

Pinsiders(including myself until recently I got burned), are to quick to send funds with the promise of a rainbow. From the vendor standpoint its a no-brainer-no risk for them. Aurich said it a while back in this thread and it proves true. Don't send your hard worked for money for something that the hard work hasn't been done on yet. When we send money for an idea......we take all the risk. Doesn't seem like the best practice to me. I can't believe this topper is so hard to re-create. Williams must have used some sort of Alien technology that has since been lost on this one. I have bought off Twisted in the past with no problems so hopefully things work out for all involved.

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

No, I don't, and no I don't have responsibility for this debacle ...

Hmm I really do not understand you not receiving Royalties?
No one gives a licensed approval for free.
It's either Cash or Give me 50 Free Foils

#65 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Pinsiders(including myself until recently I got burned), are to quick to send funds with the promise of a rainbow. From the vendor standpoint its a no-brainer-no risk for them. Aurich said it a while back in this thread and it proves true. Don't send your hard worked for money for something that the hard work hasn't been done on yet. When we send money for an idea......we take all the risk. Doesn't seem like the best practice to me. I can't believe this topper is so hard to re-create. Williams must have used some sort of Alien technology that has since been lost on this one. I have bought off Twisted in the past with no problems so hopefully things work out for all involved.

Problem was that the Foil Topper was produced and then SOLD to us here on Pinside, Pictures were also shown in forum.
But after a while people started to ask for a Video of the working waterfall effect, This was never shown at the time of Sale.
Reason why people like myself brought one!

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Did you take any royalties from twisted pins? If so.. then maybe you do have responsibility over this debacle.

The witch hunt begins.........

If you sent money without proof of product then your the only one to blame. Its easy to start pointing fingers when we get burned.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

The witch hunt begins.........
If you sent money without proof of product then your the only one to blame. Its easy to start pointing fingers when we get burned.

proof of product was shown!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/announce-whitewater-foil-topper-decal-reproduction

#68 4 years ago

Selling a license and receiving royalties are totally different.

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Selling a license and receiving royalties are totally different.

Why is that? I disagree.
Your the one that should look into who you approve to make your products,
Before you sell the the rights.

#70 4 years ago

Rick is not responsible in any way, someone came to him to license a part and Rick gave his blessing was all . This whole thing rests on Twisted Pins and no communication.

#71 4 years ago
Quoted from Squizz:

Why is that? I disagree.
Your the one that should look into who you approve to make your products,
Before you sell the the rights.

I think Twisted had a pretty good track record until they messed up this project. If PPS sells a licence to someone its pretty much a piece of paper stating you have permission to produce a product; not a person guarantee that if things go sideways PPS is on the hook. Seriously, i'm sure the licence fee on this wasn't much.

#72 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

Rick is not responsible in any way, someone came to him to license a part and Rick gave his blessing was all . This whole thing rests on Twisted Pins and no communication.

This has happened with ramps also! People have posted on TP facebook that they have not received them etc.
So Rick should not allow TP any licenses in the future! Until this WW Foil is sorted...

This is BS and TBH Rick would be the only one here to really have pull and find out what is going on with
the product / Refunds with Twisted Pins.

#73 4 years ago

Yes it was, my bad. Although the second post was requesting a video of it in action and took how long for said video? Twisted kept beating-round-the-bush on posting a video. The effect this topper achieves is not seen with a pic so I kinda disagree that proof was shown. Either way the whole thing stinks!

#74 4 years ago

I've already told Twisted Pins that I have an issue and they should make right with their customers ... but if they really are not producing any more future product, there is really little leverage I have ... so I've added all I have on the topic.

#75 4 years ago

It does definitely prove negligence that Twisted still has the toppers listed on their website for sale. Buyer beware.

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

Does everyone want the word White Water in the topper? Very important question.

I don't see any way around it.

(1) The topper is the "marquee" for the game so it needs to have the title.

(2) If you pay for the licensing you can keep the some basic design elements to tie the topper in with the existing design but also "one up" the original design. The more I look at the original the more it hits me that it would be super cool to have a 3-dimensional model of some sort. Not only was the original drawn to look 3-D, but the depth fits really well with the game design. The game is pretty much a giant diorama. Why not have the topper be the same? Some type of model mountiain with the letters intergrated and doing a fresh twist on the running waterfall effect would be like breathing new life into the original design.

#77 4 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

I don't see any way around it.
(1) The topper is the "marquee" for the game so it needs to have the title.
(2) If you pay for the licensing you can keep the some basic design elements to tie the topper in with the existing design but also "one up" the original design. The more I look at the original the more it hits me that it would be super cool to have a 3-dimensional model of some sort. Not only was the original drawn to look 3-D, but the depth fits really well with the game design. The game is pretty much a giant diorama. Why not have the topper be the same? Some type of model mountiain with the letters intergrated and doing a fresh twist on the running waterfall effect would be like breathing new life into the original design.

Agreed. I think the best way to approach this would be to not only repro the spirit of the original topper but to also make it even better. This way you not only get the people who don't have a topper but you also get the people who already have one but now want the newer, better, cooler one.

#78 4 years ago

Our initial plan was to mimic the original and that is what we are going to do. I just talked to Matt and we'll have a prototype ready by Christmas. We have a plan and we'll see how it goes..

#79 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

Our initial plan was to mimic the original and that is what we are going to do. I just talked to Matt and we'll have a prototype ready by Christmas. We have a plan and we'll see how it goes..

Wow, I gotta say... I already have an amazing original but to hear you say that so confidently and knowing your track record, I have a feeling there may be some originals posted on ebay soon. Ride the f'n rapids baby!! Godspeed my friend!

10
#81 4 years ago

This is what the topper will have in it.

3D Whitewater Logo Cast Molded hand painted in it's slanted position attached to a LED Lit Panel with etched and cut mountains across the top
3D Printed full color artwork Background
Molded boulders
Molded Center translucent water fall that will be bolted on in between White and Water and layers of white and blue leds flickering underneath it for effect.
Printed Eagle
Laser cut trees

I'll post any updates here as we move along, we are having the art resized and drawn now.

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

This is what the topper will have in it.
3D Whitewater Logo Cast Molded hand painted in it's slanted position attached to a LED Lit Panel with etched and cut mountains across the top
3D Printed full color artwork Background
Molded boulders
Molded Center translucent water fall that will be bolted on in between White and Water and layers of white and blue leds flickering underneath it for effect.
Printed Eagle
Laser cut trees
I'll post any updates here as we move along, we are having the art resized and drawn now.

Haha! Dude, that is bad ass!

#84 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

This is what the topper will have in it.
3D Whitewater Logo Cast Molded hand painted in it's slanted position attached to a LED Lit Panel with etched and cut mountains across the top
3D Printed full color artwork Background
Molded boulders
Molded Center translucent water fall that will be bolted on in between White and Water and layers of white and blue leds flickering underneath it for effect.
Printed Eagle
Laser cut trees
I'll post any updates here as we move along, we are having the art resized and drawn now.

I am in for one!

#85 4 years ago

I'm definitely in as well.

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

This is what the topper will have in it.
3D Whitewater Logo Cast Molded hand painted in it's slanted position attached to a LED Lit Panel with etched and cut mountains across the top
3D Printed full color artwork Background
Molded boulders
Molded Center translucent water fall that will be bolted on in between White and Water and layers of white and blue leds flickering underneath it for effect.
Printed Eagle
Laser cut trees
I'll post any updates here as we move along, we are having the art resized and drawn now.

Sounds like a lot of nice improvements. Will the waterfall look like it's actually moving?

#87 4 years ago

The answer to avoid getting burned is buy parts from proper suppliers and vendors, as much as possible. If it is not stocked and says "coming soon" don't buy it. You can get reviews from many people after released. That is for example how people got the PROPER Dr Who proto topper (original version), just to many smoking gun shenanigans in the pinball world in the past 20 years.

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from jhagen:

Sounds like a lot of nice improvements. Will the waterfall look like it's actually moving?

Were not sure yet, we'll see what it does when we finish..lol

#89 4 years ago

Interesting!

#90 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

Were not sure yet, we'll see what it does when we finish..lol

the waterfall MUST appear to move, similar to the original. Anything else will come off as a cheap imitation IMHO.

#91 4 years ago

Well that is the goal to make it look like it's moving but we have no idea yet

#92 4 years ago

Just a thought, If the waterfall is printed with lenticular lithography, and I dont remember the maximum
number of "stills"..5? 7?, could a small motor that moves it a few degrees back and forth give the result?
ex:
http://www.optigraphics.com/lenticular-printing/

or perhaps, animated EL Paper, which can have brilliant results today and low cost too?

ex:

1 week later
#94 4 years ago

Yeah.. why now..lol

2 weeks later
#95 4 years ago

Any updates?

#96 4 years ago

Not really.. Art is finished but that is it for now. We'll put up a post once it's ready to show.

3 weeks later
#97 4 years ago

Is this still progressing as scheduled? Any teasers???

#98 4 years ago

It is still progressing. Matt has the working print and has started the molds. Scott is working on the final art for the back panel. We'll have 1 prototype done before Christmas.

#99 4 years ago

Mine is in good shape, but would be on board just from your past products.

#100 4 years ago
Quoted from Laseriffic:

This is what the topper will have in it.
3D Whitewater Logo Cast Molded hand painted in it's slanted position attached to a LED Lit Panel with etched and cut mountains across the top
3D Printed full color artwork Background
Molded boulders
Molded Center translucent water fall that will be bolted on in between White and Water and layers of white and blue leds flickering underneath it for effect.
Printed Eagle
Laser cut trees
I'll post any updates here as we move along, we are having the art resized and drawn now.

That's exactly the way I would like to see it. Same logo but 3D sculpted by Matt. Then cast, or vac-formed. Try moving lights for waterfall effect. Would require small controller board? Other way is polar motion, but that requires a motor. That's what the Hamm's signs use.

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