(Topic ID: 177959)

ROBO-FRENZY - A New EM Arcade Game!

By bingopodcast

3 years ago

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  • 249 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Dono
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    There are 249 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.
    #201 1 year ago
    Quoted from pleasespammelate:

    I can't wait to see this when it's finished!

    Me too! We're about ready to ramp up on the artwork side of things (in about a month).

    I don't know if I'll have it ready for Allentown, but if I do, you can rest assured that I'll announce it here and will bring it. I'm guessing that it will not be ready based on how complex our plans are for the artwork. I just got another project up and running, and am about to devote my time to finishing troubleshooting on this one... hopefully this afternoon, but times' a'wastin'.

    1 week later
    #202 1 year ago

    Fixed the score motor. Noticed it turned when score relay was held (as it should), but not normally. Funny, if you don't wire the motor properly, it won't move. Fixed and now clicking away.

    It is properly incrementing the timer unit.

    Also, the reset relays, when manually held, will reset my reels to zero.

    The reels for player 2 themselves had an issue with 10+ points - small adjustment on score 2 relay, and all was set.

    Now, to figure out why the coin switch and start button won't actually fire the coin relay... They will when I jump the switch out, but not when the switch is triggered.

    Once that's done, a matter of wiring the 30V across the timer unit. Then finding the 6V short (I set that aside for a moment). It might be resolved already with the minor changes I've made to the motor/common wiring.

    #203 1 year ago

    Fuse blowing was caused by a problem with my player 2 robot trip relays. Part 1 & 2 were constantly energized as a piece of fish paper got stuck under the actuator arm, forcing the switch closed when it should have been opened. Thank goodness for fuses, right?

    Unfortunately, I don't have any idea why my coin subsystem is failing. I'm using a Bally solid state door, and perhaps the switch contacts are gold, though they do not appear to be - either dirty or incorrect switch type would be my assumption. Coin switches are not working either, though, so probably something more elemental than that. Also, no lamps yet. Hopefully not all blown...

    #204 1 year ago

    Another issue: robot parts trip simultaneously, which, when looking at the schematic, is exactly what is supposed to happen... So I've got to put a delay between trips, either through the motor or through the score relays or ?

    #205 1 year ago

    Jumped each side of the lamps directly to post-fuse, no light. Also, the lamps test fine out of circuit. Continuity between each socket on the common side. Still plugging along.

    #206 1 year ago

    Jumping out the plug on the common side of the GI causes the lamps to light. There's a break in the common chain somewhere. Back's about had it for today.

    #207 1 year ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Another issue: robot parts trip simultaneously, which, when looking at the schematic, is exactly what is supposed to happen... So I've got to put a delay between trips, either through the motor or through the score relays or ?

    Wait a minute... I have a gear relay that should drop out when the part relay trips. Perhaps one more switch needed per relay... I'll have to look again soon, but I want to get the coin door and lamps working first.

    #208 1 year ago

    Sounds like good progress is being made, thanks for the updates!

    2 weeks later
    #209 1 year ago

    It's been a couple of weeks since I have been able to do more troubleshooting on the remaining circuitry. Here's why:

    A little self-promotion: Ryan Claytor and I have co-written a new E.M. publication -- Coin-Op Carnival. The Multi-Bingo and I will be at the Coin-Op Carnival booth at TPF, along with various merchandise for the publication.

    If you would like to read more about the book or order one for yourself on March 22nd, please see either www.coinopcarnival.com or join the discussion at https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/coin-op-carnival-a-new-em-focused-publication

    127df09f6907609a4f7dd07db6c8f4c90c4015b2 (resized).jpg

    Since finishing the book, Ryan and I have discussed a few new ideas for Robo-Frenzy that we will be tackling at some point after TPF! Very excited to keep pushing this forward.

    1 month later
    #210 1 year ago

    I've been tinkering as much as time has allowed between work, family, and catching up on service calls.

    I was able to figure out my lamp issue - I had cut the common lead between the GI and the rest of the light board when I decided to separately wire the gear and player lamps. I didn't realize or reconnect it, and there was my problem.

    I wired up the coil and lamp power to the timer unit, and everything works! Pretty cool to watch, still more to do. The third finger on the timer unit needs to push 120V to each trip bank every 5 steps. I still have to wire the spaghetti side for that and the 120V circuits. I've held off for a bit as I wanted to get the low power circuits working properly first.

    I have one small problem left to address on the tentacle trip banks: apparently I didn't wire in a cutoff switch for the coil. Let a little wisp of smoke out on one of the P2 coils, but it'll be fine.

    I also have to wire up power to the player unit - score reel lamps are not working.

    Once I have the above taken care of, 120V will be kicked through the system, then it will be taking care of reset and game over. As it stands, game over is on a pair of regular relays, but I think I should make it a trip/latch just for sanity's sake.

    By the time this is done, my schematic will be more pencil than ink... Haha!

    1 week later
    #211 1 year ago

    Cutoff switches have been wired. I also removed the extra positions on the tentacle trip bank so that I had a surplus of parts. I ended up needing to move the larger dual-stacked actuators to most positions, and that took up a couple of hours.

    IMG_20190421_133218_803 (resized).jpg

    Everything worked great, except one of the coils in the trip bank was burned out - not the wispy one from earlier, but its neighbor. Pulled that one out, soldered in a fresh one from an unused position and we are off to the races.

    IMG_20190421_200504_986 (resized).jpg

    Now I have the spaghetti plate taken apart for the timer unit, and will be adding tentacle trip resets every 5th position. Doing so will require that I push the actual 120V solenoid kick to the score motor as my trip banks don't have the finicky reset signal switch wired. While that switch offers a few advantages (namely, the solenoid can keep kicking if it doesn't succeed in resetting immediately), my timer unit design is such that a trip relay needs to drop immediately once the 120V solenoid kicks.

    As soon as this is wired (I need to put in another couple fuse holders for the 120V solenoids - I'm not combining fuses for those guys), I'll be working on a similar bank reset for the robot relays.

    Afterwards, I have some player unit cleanup to work on - I don't recall if I wired in lamp power to the unit - it's not currently highlighting the player score reels in the way that I want. Could also be just funky lamp stuff going on. I've got some of that happening as well. Almost certainly my fault.

    Then it's just some minor coin/startup bugs and a game over/tilt trip. I'll probably stuff that on one of the tentacle banks (which are keyed so heavily to the timer unit). That'll allow me to cut out one of the momentary relays I currently have powering the game.

    Finally, it's modifying/wiring in the player control units. Then the wiring for the game is done, and it'll all be woodworking and metal work (and art).

    #212 1 year ago

    Wow. Productive evening that has been hard on my back.

    The timer unit has been disassembled in place and re-wired on the unused, inner circle of rivets to shove 120V of sweet, sweet goodness to the reset coils for the tentacle trip banks. That heat runs through a switch on the motor, which will prevent that coil from burning out. I may need a rethink of the design as it is resetting the bank and stepping the timer unit at the same time.

    In order to add this motor switch, I had to take apart a different motor switch stack to move insulators, switches, and lifters over to the primary motor stack I'm using to drive the game timing.

    Then, I worked back through the schematic and my wiring to figure out where 120V was already flowing - turns out it is running to the robo trip relays, but as I mentioned, I want each coil separately fused for the big suckers.

    I wired together another couple fuse blocks and will be removing some placeholder wire (and repurposing for the coils) later on.

    I also wired in a position 41 trip relay for tilt. While not a trip/latch, I can bump the trip reset using the coin relay and all should be well. The only potential problem is guarding against someone mashing the start button a bunch... I'll have to think about that/look at how others have done it. Running through a switch on the motor makes sense, but my game doesn't have an 'at rest' position on the timing motor. ...... ..... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    #213 1 year ago

    One of the 120V coils is firing when it is supposed to do so, but the other isn't firing at all...?

    They both fire off the same switch. Not sure what's wrong yet.

    I spent a bit of time redesigning the tilt circuit. Here's what's left to do:

    There are going to be several switches involved. If the game is turned on and the relay is untripped, the relay will trip immediately via a separate relay with a NC switch. The tilt relay itself will cut off 30V power to the rest of the game, except for the coin door. Coin door switches will activate the coin relay and lock relay(s). The reset relay is fired by the coin relay. I will also add a switch to the coin relay to reset the trip bank containing the tilt relay. Lastly, I need to rewire the tilt bob to force the tilt relay to trip instead of forcing a game over as it does currently.

    I don't have the individual reset relays wired into the reset relay yet - because I don't have the reset relay hold switch wired in. However, the game stops resetting when the score reels zero out properly when the reset relay is manually held. Pretty cool!

    The last thing I'll need to wire in are the player control units. To do this, I'll have to drill the phenolic discs and move wipers around (these are snowshoe steppers). The player units provide power to the tentacle left/right relays and score relays. So about six or so wires per. They also provide lamp power to the gear and player position lamps - another 16 wires per player.

    I need to lace the cables again - things are starting to get a bit hairy in there! However, part of me wants to wait until the remaining wires are in place.

    Once the wiring is done, I can observe/play a full game but without player controls (which will be its own adventure), it's not going to be much fun!

    #214 1 year ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    I need to lace the cables again - things are starting to get a bit hairy in there! However, part of me wants to wait until the remaining wires are in place.

    Nick, why don't you use zip ties for holding your temp wire bundles together(loosely-easy to cut off) then just lace the finished bundles when your done?

    #216 1 year ago
    Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

    Nick, why don't you use zip ties for holding your temp wire bundles together(loosely-easy to cut off) then just lace the finished bundles when your done?

    I've used large alligator clips to hold new wiring in place until the wiring is all done. Clothes pins would work too. Either would help form wire bundles as you wire it up. Just clip in each wire as it gets added.


    #217 1 year ago

    May I request a picture or two! Sounds like your moving along and I for one would like to see a bit of the fun!

    As always- sounds like your doing great work!

    #218 1 year ago

    No good pictures of the game, I'm pretty terrible at taking them! Today I pledge I'll get at least one good photo taken, though.

    Here is the checklist / troubleshooting guide. Items with checks -should- be wired appropriately, I just have to test when the house isn't asleep.
    IMG_20190427_233304 (resized).jpg

    The other items need review/resolution. Some are simple tweaks of switches, others will be more difficult. Of particular concern is that the player unit is locking on trip relays(?) In the robo banks. I'll hopefully have that figured out today.

    If I'm lucky, I'll have the checklist done today and will rotate the game around and take a video! Pretty darn close to finishing what can be finished today, though!

    I still have player control units to wire into the game, as I've mentioned before. I'm considering removing the wiper disc (after marking for drilling) and getting that done as well. Probably too lofty a goal for today, when I've run out of several colors of wire.

    #219 1 year ago

    A couple of issues require building new relays with more switches, so will not be resolved today, however, I do have some photos & videos:

    IMG_20190428_140244 (resized).jpg

    Looking in the back door.

    IMG_20190428_140252 (resized).jpg

    Close up of that door.

    IMG_20190428_140257 (resized).jpg

    And the back of the lightboard.


    Video pt. 1 of game running.


    Video pt 2 from the front of the game.

    #220 1 year ago

    Just bought another couple big, beefy relays to handle switching a few more things during startup. I really strained my brain to try to make the reset system work within the physical constraints I had. Could not be done. Now... I should be in great shape! I'll be replacing my reset and coin relays. Additional switches on the coin relay will trigger 120V reset to knock out tilt trip. Reset relay will now cut power to the lock relay until reset is complete. Once reset is finished, game will operate normally. I may need to add another switch in the reset to prevent the reset from being triggered on addition of second player, but I'll need to see how much of a problem this is in practice.

    Overall, though, I'm pretty excited about the progress. A short leap from a working game.

    I was able to scratch another thing off my list - I mocked up two control wheels in cardboard to try to get a feel for position and size. The concern is that penny pitch is too low, and since the mechanics are placed a small distance from the wheel, it really doesn't matter the placement as long as there is room to move the wheel.

    I need a second person to get a feel for how close we will be with an 8" wheel/control.

    IMG_20190428_144525 (resized).jpg

    #221 1 year ago

    New relays should be here Thursday! I'll wire them up asap. Once reset is 100% perfect, I'll be able to move onto the player unit and player control.

    Player unit is wired up, but if you see the checklist a couple posts above, there are a couple of bugs. Namely, that a trip relay in the scoring circuit locks on.

    I may need to wire in some additional switches on my robo-trips. I'll investigate my parts and see what I can do without robbing from a future project.

    I have a few minor switch adjustments to make (if you saw the video you'll notice the attack pattern doesn't have a good movement feel). I'm also considering speeding up the octopus by adding additional motor switches/positions. Right now I have a once per rotation switch that moves the timer unit. That may be too conservative. I can add another switch to triple the attack speed (based on post/switch positions), or move it to a cam to really change things up. I could even put it on the really bumpy cam to increase the danger, but it will decrease the game time by a significant factor when I do so.

    #222 1 year ago

    I don't think I even understand what the gameplay will look like, but I'm still excited!

    #223 1 year ago
    Quoted from cait001:

    I don't think I even understand what the gameplay will look like, but I'm still excited!

    If I had a moment to actually type out the rules, it would probably help.

    I've been mired in the intricacies of circuit design for what feels like years as I've been flitting between this and various other projects. Sorry for all the tech. Interestingly, it's only been a little over two years since Ryan and I first discussed the game! Quite a lot has been happening since then.

    Basic premise is that this is a two player, timed, competitive, EM arcade game.

    Each player controls a small robot trying to climb down a hill and pick up a piece of a larger robot. Once the player successfully climbs with the piece to the top of the hill, the piece of the larger robot is applied and the player is free to pick up another piece.

    The player controls the robot with a small handwheel. The game is "intelligent" enough to allow for the player to move forwards or backwards based on the direction of rotation.

    While the player is frantically spinning a wheel, there is a large, menacing robo-octopus of some kind in the center that is attempting to inhibit the player's actions. There are four tentacles on either side, and the player can be stopped in any position. If the player makes "contact" with the tentacle while it is in the closest position, the player will immediately drop the part of the larger robot (if holding one) and cannot pick up another piece for a random amount of time (probably like 2 seconds).

    The video above shows the tentacles reaching out. Based on the player control unit's position, the final segment of the tentacle can move in one of two directions. So though there are four tentacle trip relays, there are actually 8 relays involved: 4 additional momentary relays provide a SPDT switch to light the appropriate lamps, and a few other switches are for hit detection (one NC and the other NO).

    Each player has a different bell, to alert the other player to their actions while they are focused on their own side of the game.

    The game tracks points via score reels. Completing a large robot awards 2 points for the final part instead of one. Once the second point is awarded, the game will reset the robo relays via a 120V coil, mounted near the top of the game, for a satisfying THUNK.

    The game can be played solo as well - two coins for a two player game, or one coin for single player. In single player, obviously you're just trying to get the largest number of points in the shortest time. For a two player, you can fight each other both during the game and afterwards!

    The time remaining is indicated with lamps on the backglass, and number of players to play as well by illuminating the score reels.

    The game does not award credits of any kind, for use in all territories!

    #224 1 year ago

    Received the relays (and more wire) this weekend - unfortunately super busy - so I only had time to replace the relays themselves today and not the ability to wire in the extra circuitry for the reset. Will attempt to do so after work this week.

    #225 1 year ago

    Was feeling under the weather today, but spent a lot of time thinking about the game. I couldn't stand it anymore this evening, so I wired up the rest of my planned reset circuitry - works like a charm!

    I still get a nice buzzing noise during reset when the reels have to move a long way, but I couldn't think of another way to reliably reset the trip banks - since I don't have bank reset switches wired in..., which I may add if I start blowing fuses. For now, I'll let it go.

    Another thing I am considering is removing the player unit entirely. The limitation on 1p/2p is artificial and feels as though it is not needed. In thinking about it - if you're playing a 1p game, you're not going to be moving the 2nd player's controls, and it doesn't really matter.

    I was initially thinking about this from an operator's standpoint - grab a second coin for a second player. But the game will be fairly pricey at 25c per player (or game, after I make this change). This will free up a couple of jones plug positions, and vastly simplify the wiring in the game. Before I make this change, what do you all think? Should I keep the player unit? I don't know of many other EM arcades that would ask for a second coin for a second player... or at least I can't think of any tonight (see note below, thanks Ryan).

    Regardless, I spent a bit tonight re-engineering the player unit, changing the construction of the spider and various wires in preparation for fixing a problem with the 2nd player score relays, but I realized that it may be overkill for the application, and I haven't been able to think of anything else since!

    Keep the player unit? Yea or nay? My current vote is nay.

    #226 1 year ago

    Also, built cardboard mock-ups of 8" wheels to test placement. I had my wife come hold one up while I did the same, and while it was close, we were not hitting each other while we turned the wheels.

    Seems like 8" wheels are a winner!

    #227 1 year ago

    Some more thinking today, and I think I realize what I need to do on the player unit. Right now, I am having too few relays pull too many separate duties.

    Reset is resetting the player unit, but the coin relay is incrementing the player unit.

    Instead, I am going to treat the player unit as a player/coin unit. The reset of the player unit will happen when the game tilts or when the game ends naturally.

    Players will be added via a coin relay, and then the start button will be used to start the game (like a 70s Williams game).

    The big conceptual problem for me was that I was trying to use the start button as my free play button. However, with the setup I have inside, I think I would have been better off to use a relay to handle the second player rather than a unit. So free play will have to happen in a different way... which I haven't determined yet.

    More thinking. Anyone with any thoughts, please chime in. I still have half a mind to rip out the player unit entirely.

    #228 1 year ago

    I think I'm going to just go with a player 2 relay. Solves all my problems neatly. However, I still have the issue of firing this only on the second coin, so I'll need to add back in my single switch relay (that I removed last night) to handle the second coin.

    #229 1 year ago

    Nick, Not sure if you are using a credit unit or not but if so you could just do free play the old fashioned way and put an alligator jumper clip on the two switches in the back while the game is at a show then just simply un-clip them when it's back to coin op.

    So basically what is done with em games at shows already, although some may just bend the switches together which is not good for them long term to keep doing.

    That's keeping with the 70's.

    #230 1 year ago

    Thanks em-pinman

    I'm not using a credit unit, in keeping with other EM arcade games. It makes for a bit if a challenge, since there's no switch to keep closed like that... But that is how I'd do it if I added a credit unit.

    #231 1 year ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    I'm not using a credit unit, in keeping with other EM arcade games. It makes for a bit if a challenge, since there's no switch to keep closed like that... But that is how I'd do it if I added a credit unit.

    I know my 1969 Williams Phantom Gun used a Credit Unit but I guess it just depends on what arcade games you are looking to model yours after. You'll figure it out either way as you have the all powerful EM logic brain.

    #232 1 year ago

    Oh, good point! I wasn't thinking about gun games - more in line with games like Penny Pitch/Ringer/Darts.

    As much as I love replays, I didn't want to add them to this game.

    #233 1 year ago

    Threw out my player unit and added a couple of relays. I have some logic gremlins to work out, because a stepper is a lot nicer than a relay for handling changes that need to be staged, but it works.

    Managed to blow the lamp fuse in my haste, however, and now I'm back to no GI for some reason. Tentacle lamps still work.

    I am headed to zimjoe's place soon to drill the player movement steppers, then I should be ready for wiring those in! Can't wait as the game will play with that installed (I'll start with P1 and verify it's working first...)

    #234 1 year ago

    zimjoe didn't throw me out when I went to use his tools yesterday. The player movement units are now full of more holes!

    I'm not sure if I'll be able to repurpose the collars already peened into the wrong positions in the new ones. I also don't know if Steve Young sells new collars and wipers, but I'm going to call soon and find out (unless someone here knows). These are the pieces that the snowshoe wiper mounts inside that runs through the bakelite wiper disc. I'm hopeful that with careful prying, I can repurpose these, but not sure if it will be possible. They're not supposed to move once installed, after all.

    Lining up the holes was actually a very interesting challenge, since the disc was slightly warped, and there is a lot of odd topology on that disc, but I think it will be perfect! Well, either that or it will blow some serious fuses.

    #235 1 year ago

    Haha! A little smoke always adds to the fun

    Good luck- it will be interesting to see how you rig this up!

    3 weeks later
    #236 1 year ago

    Just received confirmation from PBR on various small parts for assembling the player movement steppers - I needed bushings for each hole (unavailable), blades, and springs.

    I went through the Williams parts catalogs and picked out three different possibilities and ordered 8 of each (four per unit). I should receive those soon and will hopefully have a chance to try carefully taking apart the bushings from an unused part of the units. If not, and I break my part, I'll grab another unit from ebay and start over.

    1 month later
    #237 1 year ago

    what you are doing is great it is to bad that they don't make em game parts anymore. I have a CNC plasma cutter so I'm trying to make my own parts (relays. relay banks. stepper units score reels score motors) and many more parts from scratch.

    2 months later
    #238 9 months ago

    IMG_20191110_130944 (resized).jpg

    Coat o' primer went on yesterday. Next to fill, sand, tack, and then second coat.

    Things are happening...

    #239 9 months ago

    Good to see you back at it Nick.

    Looking forward to seeing the project completed and the video.

    #240 9 months ago

    Pardon the radio silence on this thread - Ryan and I have been hard at work on various things...

    Ryan has been doing some fabulous neon work which looks amazing. We are working on Coin-Op Carnival #2, and I spent a few months programming 36 games into Multi-Races, which was publicly shown for the first time at York in October.

    Since then, I've been doing work work non-stop, and Ryan and I are communicating about RF quite frequently. Some fun stuff to come, and I hope to be showing the game before too much longer. One of the most frequent questions I get at shows is, 'where is RF?' Hopefully more to come soon.

    #241 9 months ago

    Stoked about the work, understand you've got quite a bit on your plate with family, work, life, etc... godspeed on getting this out there... I among many others are excited about this!!!

    1 month later
    #242 7 months ago

    this old technology is really cool. attached here is a pdf of the 1950s score reel patent so make sure you download it. I hope to be able to make them again
    someday. I have been trying to model the design in a cad program and here it is the frame part. here is what it will kind of look like when it is finished

    I. am also trying to design new electro-mechanical game using the parts I am designing

    US2779200.pdfscore reel frame 1 v21.pngcomplete score reel asembled v18.png
    #243 7 months ago

    Durant's mechanisms are really very nice and reliable. Very neat that you used his patent as an example.

    This project, despite appearances, is not dead. I am working with Ryan on the artwork, which is necessary before I can proceed. It might mean moving or adding lamps, which will require a different light board to be cut. I need to make sure that everything is set with the art before I can finalize the last bits of the layout/design. Everything is wired and ready!

    I wasn't able to lay down a second coat of primer before the cold really set in. Hope to do so in the next few months and have everything totally ready. I need to cut the holes for the coin door and the control rods for the wheels. That won't take long, but I want to make sure the art package doesn't count on those items being in a particular place.

    Basically, art is key, and Ryan and I are working on lots of other projects at the moment. We're making some progress on the overall art, though!

    #244 7 months ago
    Quoted from Imake50spinparts:

    this old technology is really cool. attached here is a pdf of the 1950s score reel patent so make sure you download it.

    Thanks for posting the patent. That's one I hadn't seen before. I've added it to a list of pinball related patents I've collected at https://www.funwithpinball.com/resources/patents.

    I hope you can share more of what you're up to on pinside.


    #245 7 months ago

    Thank's mark. I really think the electro-mechanical games are a lot more fun than today's solid state games and that they should still make them today

    I seem to have good patent interpretation skills this even works with old parts catalogs I'm also good at cad design so. I am trying to bring these good old parts back into production. I'm have been designing a new electro- mechanical game and I do not feel it is right to rob these old parts off games to make this one so I have decided to make my own parts from scratch

    attached here are some other united mfg patents you might want

    #246 7 months ago

    here it my attempt to copy Durant's score reel design: this is the pawl that keeps the ratchet from turning backwards when the unit steps up

    pic#1 is the bushing not yet crimped without pawl pic#2 pawl without bushing pic#3 bushing with pawl but not yet crimped.

    pic#4 finished pawl crimped on to bushing

    holding pawl bushing v6 (resized).pngholding pawl 1 v22 (resized).pngholding pawl bushing v65 (resized).pngholding pawl asembly v3 (resized).png
    2 months later
    #247 5 months ago
    Quoted from Imake50spinparts:

    here it my attempt to copy Durant's score reel design: this is the pawl that keeps the ratchet from turning backwards when the unit steps up
    pic#1 is the bushing not yet crimped without pawl pic#2 pawl without bushing pic#3 bushing with pawl but not yet crimped.
    pic#4 finished pawl crimped on to bushing[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    That red score reel looks very similar to the Keeney Poker Face pin I'm working on right now... do you know how I could confirm if in fact Keeney used Durant's design for their pin or bowler score reels? Only difference I can see is that my Keeney game score reels are green with white text and they're plastic, not metal.

    #248 4 months ago
    Quoted from Dono:

    That red score reel looks very similar to the Keeney Poker Face pin I'm working on right now... do you know how I could confirm if in fact Keeney used Durant's design for their pin or bowler score reels? Only difference I can see is that my Keeney game score reels are green with white text and they're plastic, not metal.

    keeny did use Durant's score reel design for their 1952 domino bowler. keeny did not make their own score reels at first they used united's cardboard reels an then switched to Ballys plastic score reels in the late 1950s

    here is the patent for your reels

    #249 4 months ago

    Interesting, thanks for the info.

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