ROBO-FRENZY - A New EM Arcade Game!


By bingopodcast

11 months ago


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    There are 85 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    13
    #1 11 months ago

    Hi all.

    I'm the crazy person that has made a hybrid EM/solid state bingo that can play 105 games (currently).

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/multi-bingo-machine

    I have a (currently anonymous) partner that I have been in discussions with to design a new arcade game. Originally, we had discussed using the same board set utilized by the Multi-Bingo, but later decided to design it as pure EM.

    I am thrilled to show a few progress pics so far.

    First, my partner and I discussed potential themes. We settled upon one early on, and a title.

    I am in charge of the electrical and mechanical component. As such, I prefer to hand-draw a schematic.

    IMG_20170107_022031 (resized).jpg

    First, I tape down a layer of copy paper.

    Then, I roll out some tracing paper and tape it to the copy paper. This ensures that nothing moves.

    Then, I lay down my pencil layer to solidify game design and mechanics in my mind (and on paper).

    If I mess up, I just erase an area and redraw.

    For the Multi, I drew the schematic in the style of a Bally bingo. For this game, I drew in the style of a 60s Williams or earlier Exhibit.

    #2 11 months ago

    Next, I finalize the pencils and then lay down another piece of tracing paper.

    From here, I use non-reproducing blue pencil, drafting pens and various drafting straightedges and lettering tools to draw and finalize everything.

    At this point, I have to use whiteout if I screw up (which I do, frequently).

    image-20170108_174757 (resized).jpg

    In progress inking. As you can see, there are some shortcuts that I took with the pencils that I am correcting with the inks. This causes most of the 'typos'. Whoops.

    IMG_20170108_200040_456 (resized).jpg

    Inking pretty much done. Title will be revealed soon, and my partner will name himself when he is ready.

    At this point, I'm gathering parts to wire. I will label the schematic with wire colors when I have all the parts in house and begin wiring. I'm uncertain if the game will run at 24 or 50v. It depends on which manufacturer's parts I can most easily acquire.

    This is my first EM design, and while it's not super complex, it is way more complex than I was initially planning for. My partner asked for certain features which required me to really think about how they would be designed. I'm pretty certain this will work well!

    Lots more to come!

    #3 11 months ago

    Awesome.

    #4 11 months ago

    Have always thought about it. I'm heading a different direction. Awesome!

    #5 11 months ago

    Well I was going to say it is maybe a hangman game, but then...octopus relays? Mr. Frenzy?

    #6 11 months ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    I'm heading a different direction.

    Where you goin'? You mean you're building a new game, too? Excellent!

    Quoted from jeffc:

    but then...octopus relays? Mr. Frenzy?

    Not quite correct. But soon(ish), hopefully. Also, just like every game needs a Peacock button (Chicago Coin's Twinky), every game need an Octopus relay or more.

    #7 11 months ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Where you goin'? You mean you're building a new game, too? Excellent!

    Yup! Although I'm torn between making it EM or going solid-state and having a soundtrack and attract mode, it's more of a pinball thing. Decisions, decisions. I think it's going to end up being solid state, as cool as EM would be.

    #8 11 months ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    soundtrack and attract mode

    Both can be done in EM. Just takes a couple more parts.

    If you have any questions about how to do something, I'm always here. I've been in both worlds now, as far as custom development.

    Designing EMs though is challenging. Understanding how the mechanics impact the electrical is the sticky part.

    As far as pinball, I think this is a great time to embark on a solid state project. The custom boardsets (like the P3-Roc) and programming frameworks are pretty amazing. If I ever do a flipper game, I'll definitely be using them again, unless it's pure EM.

    #9 11 months ago

    After some small discussion with my partner, we decided that we could reveal who, how, and why.

    My partner (in design/crime) is Ryan Claytor. He and I have been discussing the Multi-Bingo since its conception, which led to conversations about custom game development, which led to conversations about... this game!

    Ryan and I are taking this one slooooooowly, though, because:

    a) we have families and careers and stuff.

    b) we both have a ton of hobby irons in the fire. I'm still working on the Multi-Bingo. In fact, just this weekend, a previously unknown machine was discovered. I still have cabinet artwork and tweaking/tuning, then the supplemental playfields to develop. But I'm at a good place to draw a schematic and design a game with 105 complete games in the Multi.

    Ryan has announced that he's working with PBR to develop replacement plastics for certain games, and his amazing illustration work continues unabated.

    So Ryan and I are the who.

    How: I had initially designed the game with solid state electronics in mind. But as I started to think about it, most of the ruleset we were initially discussing was a pretty good fit for an EM game... so I thought about it a little more, and realized that I could design the entire game in EM fairly simply, with a relatively small BOM.

    Why: Why not? We both have family-friendly home arcades, and wanted our kids and their friends (and parents, relatives, etc) to be able to come by and play a quick game - even those that do not appreciate pinball in its various flavors.

    More on the title and design to come. I'll rename the thread and Ryan will chip in when he has a moment.

    #10 11 months ago

    Title: ROBO-FRENZY

    Goal: To build robots by picking up pieces while dodging an angry Octopus, earning as many points as possible.

    Number of Players: 2, simultaneous

    Mechanics - Each user controls a 'wheel' that allows for positioning of a small robotic character. This little robot will run down and pick up a piece from the chest at the bottom middle.

    When a piece is acquired, the little robot can be positioned back up towards the top of a hill. When the robot reaches the top, with gear in hand, it will start building a larger robot. Each piece retrieved scores 1 point. When six pieces have been retrieved, it scores a second point and resets the robot, ready to be rebuilt again.

    While you are running up and downhill, there is a big mean Octopus that attempts to 'get' you with its tentacles. The game is timed. As the (internal) timer ticks down, the octopus' limbs become visible. Several limbs can be positioned in one of two spots at the end. You want to avoid the limbs, or you will drop the robot part you are holding, and be unable to pick a new one up for a couple of seconds.

    Safe spaces vary dependent on the timer.

    There is a player-visible timer as well, so the game doesn't just stop.

    Ryan really challenged me to design this with the complexity listed above. I really wanted to cheap out at several points (leaving out the trip banks needed to store the 'build' progress, for example), but I thought of a reasonable way to achieve it.

    We make a good team, I think.

    The schematic is just the first step, and in future posts, I'll describe a bit about the mechanics involved.

    #11 11 months ago

    I'm not sure if I should be impressed, or really scared! But I like it!

    #13 11 months ago

    Absolutely incredible!
    This sounds awesome!! Building a game sounds so overwhelming I can't imagine

    #14 11 months ago

    May people talk about doing great things. But few actually do great things. Congratulations on the 'doing' and if any of my limited skills can be of help you have but to ask.

    #15 11 months ago

    Holy crap this sounds awesome!!!

    #16 11 months ago

    Looking forward to watching your progress. Always amazed how those guys could create interesting and varied rules with score motors, steppers and relays. Love that you are choosing to go old school and take this on.

    I'll get those parts out to you as quickly as I can.

    #17 11 months ago

    Thanks everyone! I'm pretty excited about it (at the moment).

    Quoted from rosh:

    I'll get those parts out to you as quickly as I can.

    Thanks @rosh, not a rush. Your parts will provide many of the general relay parts that are needed (used for determining tentacle direction, game over, and holding gears, as well as handling hits).

    I'm also looking to source several trip banks (need a minimum of four with six positions each, transformers (24V and 6V), couple of motors (probably Gottlieb) and 40 step units (Bally and United are the only ones I knew that made these).

    If someone happens to have a ton of flush-mount sockets in a parts drawer somewhere, I'm definitely not opposed to used.

    If anyone has parts they would be willing to sell, I'm willing to buy. I don't need the wiring (have to rewire everything anyway).

    It's also been a while since I've looked at a delay relay from Bally. I'm mostly curious how the 455 socket was wired. I seem to recall that it's across the hold switch for the relay. Is that correct?

    #18 11 months ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    Building a game sounds so overwhelming I can't imagine

    I used to think that, too. Then I just jumped in and did it (with the Multi).

    I think the harder part is designing the game so that it can actually function as intended. One of the nice things about solid state games is that you don't have to worry as much about the mechanical side. You can code away things like the movement of the player or the hit detection.

    When you have to think about doing the same thing mechanically, you have to really consider the interaction between all pieces of hardware. It's a fun thinking exercise, for sure. We'll see if it works out as written.

    #19 11 months ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    When you have to think about doing the same thing mechanically, you have to really consider the interaction between all pieces of hardware. It's a fun thinking exercise, for sure. We'll see if it works out as written.

    Electromechanical game design is definitely a different animal but well worth the effort in my experience. Being constrained by the number of switches on a relay or motor cam can be an exhilarating design challenge. Debugging and resolving issues discovered after most of the game is built and wired can be another puzzle. Thinking it through before starting to build as you've done is key.

    You're off to an excellent start with a complete schematic. Extra credit for doing it in the style of the times (on one big hand drawn sheet).

    You're in for a real treat. Let me know if I can help.

    /Mark

    #20 11 months ago

    This. sounds. awesome.

    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Number of Players: 2, simultaneous

    Will be watching this for sure.

    I've got 16 small 70's WMS score reels I can donate if interested.

    #21 11 months ago
    Quoted from jeffc:

    This. sounds. awesome

    Hey JeffC, thank you!

    No donation necessary, I'll PM you and we can discuss.

    Quoted from MarkG:

    You're off to an excellent start with a complete schematic. Extra credit for doing it in the style of the times (on one big hand drawn sheet).
    You're in for a real treat. Let me know if I can help.

    I definitely agree. Many design challenges were worked out just by drawing the schematic. There's one remaining weakness that I'd like to experiment with, which will reduce the BOM by four additional stepper units. Anyone considering a custom project would be well-served by drawing a schematic (in my opinion).

    #22 11 months ago

    Would any of this help?

    WP_20170111_12_21_52_Pro (resized).jpg

    #23 11 months ago

    @Mk1Mod0 yes, I believe it might! Relays are always useful. I'll shoot you a message and we can discuss.

    I'm in talks with several parties about parts at the moment. I should have pretty much all I need soon to begin a-wirin'.

    #24 11 months ago

    Okay okay, enough talk about schematics and relays, let's get to some of the design vision for this project.

    In all seriousness, this whole concept would have gone nowhere fast without @BingoPodcast, so I consider myself pretty darn lucky to have him as such a great friend. I'm forever indebted, m'bro!

    carebear.gif

    Alright, mushy-time over. ARTS-AWAY!

    (Oh, I almost forgot, now that I'm involved in this thread, prepare for its load-time to slow WAAAY DOOOWWWNN with all the animate gifs I'll be dropping.)

    I think some of you may have seen that I recently obtained my EM arcade grail, a Williams "Penny Pitch":

    » YouTube video

    After playing it (A BUNCH) I was still pretty enamored and was sort of lamenting the fact that there aren't a lot of games in a similar style. I love backlit animation, the small footprint is great, and hey...wouldn't it be fun to create one with my own artwork? But, wait, that's right...I do art stuff, not tech stuff.

    Enter @bingopodcast .

    So, I showed him some concept designs and we chat (A BUNCH) about how this might work. So, here's where we're at:

    Title: Robo-Frenzy - An Electro-Mechanical upright arcade game:

    cabinet (resized).jpg

    Cabinet: Similar to Penny Pitch in size.

    I'm already thinking about reworking the cab profile. I'd like to turn it into something that looks more like a robot itself, rather than simply a carbon copy of a Penny Pitch cab. We'll see if I can come up with something simple enough to recreate in wood.

    *fingers crossed*

    Anyhow, as you see, there will be a robot/gear motif. However, this cabinet will allow for the option of a 2-player simultaneous experience. The only control will be a wheel mech, which will be shaped like a gear:

    wheel (resized).png

    I've already been calling around water-jet services in my local area and I've been assured we can create these custom controls. I'm pretty excited! If you've never heard of water-jet cutting before, here's a quick demo video. It's pretty astonishing:

    » YouTube video

    Gameplay: The visuals will be displayed on a backglass via backlit animation:

    Backglass (resized).jpg

    The player (little dude on either side, Player 1 on left, Player 2 on right) will navigate his way from the top of the planet surface down to a basket o' parts at the depths of a cavern, avoiding the extending and retracting tentacles of the octobot. He'll fetch a part from the depths of the cavern and make his way back, once again, to the planet surface. The goal of retrieving the parts is to build a big bot to help stop the octobot. Each part brought to the surface will contribute to one of a few Frankenstein'ed pieces of a bigger bot (legs, arms torso, head) until it is complete. 1 point for each part successfully brought back to the surface and 2 points for each big bot completed. Once big bot is completed (via a series of backlit parts, natch) then the game repeats (little guy builds another robot) and continues for a specific duration of time (to be determined...likely around the 1-2 minute mark). We're trying to figure out if the timer will be displayed via a dial of some sort, kinda like on a Chicago Coin Twin Rifle:

    twinRifle.jpg

    ...or if parts like those are just unobtainium, then we'll go for sort of an animated backlit clock-hand movement. We'll see.

    That's all I've got right now.

    #25 11 months ago

    Hey! Ryan! I've already designed in lamps for the clock per a previous late late night convo. I also don't want to deal with another motor if I don't have to. I want to make this beautiful and low maintenance. So I would prefer the backlit timer. The clock lamps shut off when the game times out, so we don't have to worry about burn, nor alignment of printing/screening for the timer.

    Win/win/(cheap) win.

    It looks like I've hit at least one small redesign anyway - Ryan and I were just discussing how cheap I am, when he mentioned something I designed out early - two bells for points. One per player. I had designed it with a single bell that would ring for each point earned regardless of player. Two bells will give each player a chance to see how the other is progressing without having to actually look up. I say I designed it out - during my initial 'brain' design phase, I looked at the units we would need, doubled them (simultaneous), then started cutting out ones that could be considered superfluous (cost reduction). In this case, I think I went too cheap. Ryan's suggestion was to use two different sized bells. That'll be quite nice. Now to find all those cheap 4 and 5" bells out there... ha!

    I was also speaking with a nice person earlier that suggested adding a stepper to randomize the starting tentacle position. As it stands, there is a single pattern implemented on the schematic. I'll see how players handle it before I design in that level of complexity. I think that due to the hectic nature of scooping and dropping under time duress, the player should be able to have some amount of predictability if they continue to drop a bunch of quarters. But it may be way too predictable. 'Time' will tell...

    If you can't tell by now, I'm really bad about visualizing anything but mechanics. As I mentioned before, Ryan and I make a great team (thanks man!).

    #26 11 months ago

    Very cool idea! Hope to watch as it progresses!

    #27 11 months ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    It's also been a while since I've looked at a delay relay from Bally. I'm mostly curious how the 455 socket was wired. I seem to recall that it's across the hold switch for the relay. Is that correct?

    Went back and looked at some Bally schematics for games I've worked on with delay relays. 455 is wired to one side of the hold switch for the relay and the other directly to common. Once the lamp changes state, current bleeds into the lamp and no longer is flowing with as much force to the relay.

    This is on a 50V system, of course, so I'll have to see if my 24V setup will work for this. If not, I'll have to tie to the timer step-up.

    #28 11 months ago

    @ryanclaytor, so funny I just saw that game for the 1st time last year! Tommy Skinner has/had a Penny Pitch here in Indy. Cool game that is actually quite hard to get the hang of.

    #29 11 months ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    This is on a 50V system, of course, so I'll have to see if my 24V setup will work for this. If not, I'll have to tie to the timer step-up.

    Gottlieb used a delay mechanism in some of their (24V) EM games involving an RC (resistor, capacitor) circuit and probably a diode. Flip A Card had one I believe. I'll have to look around for an example. While a little more elaborate than a light bulb, an RC circuit would let you set your own delay if you cobbled together your own.

    /Mark

    #30 11 months ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    Gottlieb used a delay mechanism in some of their (24V) EM games involving an RC (resistor, capacitor) circuit and probably a diode. Flip A Card had one I believe.

    Oh yeah! I know what you mean, some of the spinner games like Snow Queen/Derby used that too. I don't recall seeing a diode on there... but it wouldn't be the first time I forgot about something!

    #31 11 months ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Oh yeah! I know what you mean, some of the spinner games like Snow Queen/Derby used that too. I don't recall seeing a diode on there... but it wouldn't be the first time I forgot about something!

    That's the one. The delay was needed to wait for the spinner to settle down before acting on whatever final value the spinner picked. Here's a transcription from the Flip A Card schematic:

    delay (resized).png

    The nomenclature used in the schematic is interesting (W.V.D.C., P.I.V. and "Rectifier"). I'm pretty sure the capacitor is a 50V capacitor and the diode (rectifier) is 100V.

    The delay module is essentially a half wave rectifier that makes the Spin Score Delay relay a DC relay in an AC game.

    A closer look at a spin unit in action (but without the delay module) is at http://markgibson.zenfolio.com/fun-with-pinball-small-boards#SpinUnit

    #32 11 months ago

    Excellent, thanks! Yes, by playing with the cap and resistor values, you could extend that as long as you needed.

    Next time I'm in one of those games I'll poke around for the diode. I'm sure it's obvious and I just don't remember it!

    #33 11 months ago

    the look reminds me a little bit of "Ringer" and I assume the display of progress is going to have a similar method of a stepper advancing the lamps, etc.

    #34 11 months ago

    Similar, though not the same. The issue is that Ryan and I wanted to go both forward and back. A problem with the 'Ringer' setup is that you can only move in one direction (single switch on the driven rotating cam).

    This setup will require a bit more precision, though we will see if it works out. Initially I was thinking of using a setup similar to something like Pole Position, where both speed and direction could be determined through the positioning of two offset opto pairs.

    Now, the basis of movement will be a Williams-style large trace stepper (like a player unit) - snowshoe side bolted to the wheel shaft, and contact/trace side bolted inside the machine at a fixed position. This allows for forward and backward movement, but minute amounts of movement will send you flying. If the wheels are smaller than the stepper, then you do away with that part of the problem, at least.

    All depends on how I have it wired, really. There are a total of 8 positions for each player, for smooth movement, I'll need to find/make something with a minimum of 15 positions.

    If I want things to require more turning of the wheel, double or triple the number of positions. One thought I had early on was to use something like a search disc at the extremes - 50 potential positions, but the wiper units Bally used only allowed for movement in one direction...

    Of course the other option is to implement it very similarly to 'Ringer' and force the player to continuously move forward. This just requires a continuous stepper with a multiple of 15 positions for each player.

    #35 11 months ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Now, the basis of movement will be a Williams-style large trace stepper (like a player unit) - snowshoe side bolted to the wheel shaft, and contact/trace side bolted inside the machine at a fixed position. This allows for forward and backward movement, but minute amounts of movement will send you flying.

    I'm not familiar with the stepper you're referring to. Does it step backwards one step at a time, or reset back to the beginning (like going from player 4 to player 1?) To step backwards one step at a time a credit unit comes to mind. I wonder if you could use the escapement/stepping mechanism from a credit unit and the wipers/board from another stepper to let the player go backwards and forwards at the same rate. You'd probably need one for each player.

    #36 11 months ago

    Way to go Nick and Ryan!

    This sounds like an amazing project.

    I am looking forward to following your progress.

    Eric

    BTW, I have access to a full machine shop, and may be able to help you out with that kind of stuff, if need be.

    #37 11 months ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    Does it step backwards one step at a time, or reset back to the beginning (like going from player 4 to player 1?)

    Originally it would, but I would likely remove the ratcheting mechanism and coils and allow for direct control of the position of the disc.

    I figure that snowshoe contacts should hold up with appropriate lubrication as long as there is not a lot of back and forth play in the mech.

    #38 11 months ago

    You know... if we used a series of gears that were manually driven, we could effectively use any stepper rivet disc.... The wheel would drive a small gear that would in turn drive a larger gear - effectively slowing down the rotation of the player-controlled wheel.

    This would also remove the primary wear issue that I see with the snowshoe contacts dragging on the disc with uneven pressure.

    #39 11 months ago

    Another thought I had, which would be a heckuva lot cheaper... would be to use joysticks limited to a single axis. But you lose the charm of the control concept. You would only need a single step up/step down unit, though. 8 positions. Wiring would also be simplified.

    Just trying to sell Ryan, here.

    #40 11 months ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Another thought I had, which would be a heckuva lot cheaper... would be to use joysticks limited to a single axis. But you lose the charm of the control concept. You would only need a single step up/step down unit, though. 8 positions. Wiring would also be simplified.
    Just trying to sell Ryan, here.

    kraft (resized).jpg

    wheel (resized).png

    #41 11 months ago

    Knobs Win.

    #42 11 months ago

    Fair enough. I was thinking of going a little more heavy duty than a generic c64 joystick, though.

    #43 11 months ago
    Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

    Knobs Win.

    Agreed.

    #44 11 months ago

    Ok... Ok... I guess if I'm going to cheap out, player control isn't the place to do it... message received!

    #45 11 months ago

    What a super cool project! Looking forward to the art package on this one.

    #46 11 months ago

    Here's a few of my custom games. I love creating new artwork for games that were kinda boring when they came out or for games that had no art at all/

    dragon sabre (resized).png
    wonderboy (resized).png
    IJ (resized).png

    #47 11 months ago

    nibbler1 (resized).png

    nibbler2 (resized).png

    rtypeLeo2 (resized).png

    rtypeLeo1 (resized).png

    #48 11 months ago

    Thanks for following along everyone! I just spent a while at the copy shop to get my tracing paper schematic (rev. A) scanned and copied.

    I prefer working on paper, especially while wiring a game. But I need a scan to refer back to later on.

    I'll upload here when possible (after I review the scan...).

    #49 11 months ago

    Robo-Frenzy Rev. A.pdf

    Rev. A schematic attached. If I realize that this will not work, I'll modify and make a Rev. B schematic. Had to do that for the Multi. Not the end of the world.

    #50 11 months ago

    Pretty excellent error I noticed in the cold light of morning. Anyone else see it?

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