Thanks for taking the time to share with this post, VID.
The bulb is in Proto with Zitt, and another to help with initial prototyping.
As some PM have already been received, please allow me to share.
If adjustments are needed, we will adjust and re test.
After that, we will bring in a few hundred pieces and offer free to test by others,
and then go into production in all colors.
The goal is to eliminate the need for adding resistors, building a board, or expensing the purchase
of additional boards.....fingers crossed...it will take a little time.

Ice Blue has been flying off the shelves, and there was a post for a Black Hole, where the whole GI
was done...So far Ive used some in IMVE and in Tommy, but hope to do more, and see more from pinsiders who have been receiving them over the last few weeks....

SUNLIGHT has been a winner, and my favorite....I have heard from many who have changed out Whites in GI, for a less "Sterile", hospital look.
It is just the right Kelvin between the two whites for every game.
I encourage everyone to try a few, or on their next project.
I think you will be very impressed!

Ill keep everyone posted!

Thanks for the help, Vid, Herg, and Zitt!
As always, the community is better because of your contributions!

Art

Thanks Vid for the astute answers...and help.

It is exactly for those reasons. Several great solutions for great results!

I wont be creating Every LED in this manner, and most older games, tend to need more subtle light,
so I can certainly see needs for all 3.

I expect these bulbs to be no more then $.10 maximum over the existing counterpart, and I am leaning towards a 2 LED bulb, or a frosted 5050, so around $.69-$.79.

But it must go through several months of testing before its ready for purchase.

2nd round of prototypes should arrive in 6 weeks or so.

We will have 15 sets of 10, offered free for testing. (+ shipping)
There will be a Pinside announcement, with the hope that the 15 will try and report back.
We are seeing if we may need 2 types of bulb for different groups of games....so still learning.
With your help, I will do all I can to make this a working choice for us Pinheads!

Good point..Thank you...In production Ill try to have them marked

Well, I received the next batch for testing yesterday, but in typical Chinese fashion, they sent 555 instead of 44/47.

So a couple of questions, because I admit with no pleasure, my ignorance.

Do all the bulbs in a line need to be changed at the same time to test this new bulb?
or will leaving any incandescent in the line, alter the results?

With that, can these 555 be tested if alligator clipped to the series?

Is there one more tester out there, that really knows there stuff, to help this move faster to reality?

(I have received many different opinions as to what the solution is, and have created test numbers 2
and 3, meaning 2 new variations, as the first worked for some games, but reportedly not all, and I am
ignorant to what variation might exist between the range of games in thi series.....

So basically....I need more help.

Well, this is part of what messes me up.

With all due respect to everyone.....Are you saying one bulb cant be tested if a second incandescent is present, and get a correct answer? Would all bulbs except one LED solve this, or Two?
Vid, Cactus Jack, John, some consensus out there how to achieve this?

Thank you Brian, I have had a few responses via PM, for whats in house at this time, but if that changes, or when a few hundred come in, we will make them available free for testing, and would be pleased to send some to you.

Art

Thank you all for taking the time to help educate me....I think I understand this now.
The help is greatly appreciated!

Lets see what happens with these new derivations, and go from there.

(thank you chuckwurt, for offer to help....as these few have help already, I wont hope to ask your help
on the next round)

Art

Yup, On the Good Side, I have 6 versions, I have been trying to reach a friend to test on....
Maybe today, this week....

On the bad side, since 1 month ago, I sent out 6 sets to pinsiders who requested to test,
( not Sean, he gets this next round), and none of the 6 responded other then they are, "too busy"
or "will get to it later".

So I need to test myself.....

Hopefully, the large bag received is the answer and I can share.

its a shame its been so hard to find a few games near me.

Art

OK, finally found someone with a few games, went to Eds storage center, hauled out some games and tested...(Thanks Ed..hes on the Village).

I have had several variations sent, and the ones that functioned did fine in game play, put flickered
in attract mode...not too bad, but there.

Since I have nothing to compare too, (and I know it would be great to pass attract mode, what are you guys thoughts?

Pm to you Vid...samples coming your way.

(My apologies to others...until I have a large batch to send out, I need to solve this way first)

Art

Thanks Chuck...

Perhaps if that is a common answer and Vid can help with a "Good Housekeeping"
Thumbs up...Ill manufacture a few hundred and the next round will be samples, a poll for color/type etc
feed back, and they will go into production.....

Things are looking Good!

Thanks!

Bulbs are with Vid for testing....We should hear some info, when he has some time....
I hope/believe we have a solution, and then will move to live testing with a bunch of your help.

(oh, yes, depending on USPS!)

Art

Ill send you the schematics......we are testing several different values on the resistor legs....

Art

Thanks Vid for doing the testing.

What I hope to ask is, is there a schematic solution to this bulb need?

I have now made 6 different bulbs based on best help from others on the board...which is greatly appreciated...and from your test now, none are working?

I am not smart enough myself to create, but I dont mind trying again, but with hopes of a truly working bulb.

Art

I dont know, but while we had flicker in attract in an 8 ball and in a fireball, they all performed correctly in game play.....does that help any?

Wow, I am disappointed too...maybe they thought they wouldnt be opened.

I wont be able to reach the factory for 2 weeks, as China is on Holiday....

Maybe time to give this project, to one of my other factories.

Art

Was there even a BR, in the ones labeled as such?

Still working on it...I have been sidetracked temporarily with other
Requests.
If successful,
I am guessing $.79 approx.

Got sidetracked with other projects that will be completing and releasing very soon.
That will free up some time to try again.

Art

Bogged down finishing up new stuff....never goes as smooth as needed, but still open.

I see X pin made a more cost effective solution at like $49.....Id hate to have people wait on me.
Have you seen this?

Has anyone installed one?

Quick search finds it, there is a thread too....

http://www.xpinpinball.com/shop/product/xp-blyff

Sorry, I type slower than I think. This was made in reference to the current board solution of an Alltek, which I think is Twice the
Price.

Sure, a Bulb is the best solution, and its slowly back at the top of the pile.

The issue was simple, send a schematic, send a sample, and have them reproduce.
The result, 3 failures.

Why? Good question, welcome to working with China.

From my side, I have a long list of wants, needs, suggestions for products on top of the regular side of the bulbs, my other jobs, family and health. Each product takes a lot of time, and money. Op-Max, is years away from being profitable. Purple Passion will never cover the time.
or see TimeBandits year of work to bring RGB as a product one can click and buy, and Install with no issues.... it takes time.

So for some silly reason, this Project has failed, and I needed to step back for an assortment of reasons, but it is being reloaded and retried.
Will I succeed or Fail? Dont know, but I dont give up.

I just know the hardest thing is to do everything, do it right, and within the time that is desired....

Ill keep trying.

Of course, yes, I have sent samples. Twice, and now a third time.
Everything is simply busy.
And yes, I have sent to several factories the schematic, but the minimum they want, and the cost, is prohibitive.
Without going into to much detail, the numbers are 10,000 units to start. Now of course, people will want colors, and perhaps brightness levels....So even if I bust chops, its at least 50,000 units plus to start.
Lets just ignore any time and setup fees, and just say 50,000 units at $.40 each, Thats $20,000 in cost to have ready to sell.
With my apologies, while I have capitalized my business by means of a second mortgage, I have so many things in my life happening,
that an immediate outlay of $20K on this got pushed back in favor of products with greater demand.
So at first, Id simply like to succeed in white.

But I will share with you this, If I fail to have a product in say 6-8 months, and I appreciate that respect....Please do go for it.
Pinheads want it, and someone needs to do it.

Of course, it is open, and someone could release tomorrow. Its not that hard.

But the first ones, done exactly as detailed, and done 2 different ways, failed in some applications, The third try documented by VID was a clusterf*k.

So, I hear you, but am doing the best I can, with the time and funds I have.
My apologies for not meeting expectations.

Also, lets look at immediate cost effectiveness.

Say the bulb is done at $.79 retail and solves the issue. The same Bulb, because of the quantities made is $.59.
The $.20 per bulb cost times an average of 100-125 bulbs at this time That means $79 to $99 to do a game.
A $50 board, and $60- $70 for a wide assortment of bulb choices that exist, means $110-$120, or at most a $30-$40
savings. For many, this will certainly drives sales.....we all like to save.
But in the grand game of pinball, its not too much to spend.
Say, one did there whole game in 2-LED clear. The original Bulb used in AC/DC. They look great in these older games, and are $.49 by the
100. One would spend that $110 with xpin vs $100 with LEDs with resistors.

It is one reason I was sharing the options, because when it comes to which LEDs to use in a game, there are so many different Opinions.
IMO, I mix all different brightness of bulbs in Inserts, Playfield, and backbox. I realize this is not common...All kits etc, stress the same bulb everywhere. Regardless of which method, you are correct that people will want different brightness.

With that in mind, Id likely still recommend an Xpin, with the LEDs off your choice.

3 different bulbs in all colors stocked with resistors adds up awfully quick!

Perhaps a 3rd alternative. Without violating the product and respect of these 2 boards, is there another way to do an add-on?
If so, maybe I can just offer that for $30, and the need is solved.

Art

thanks for the correction.

I personally have not done any games from this period, please excuse my error.

Ill jump back to share.

I created several different bulbs, with thanks to vid.

Some worked some didnt. Some that did not work, that worked in others may have been a failing SCR.

With Seigecraft bringing a cost effective solution, along with Alltek, the bulb only solution, would offer, on average at most a $20-$25 savings in cost in total between all bulbs, or any bulbs + board.

In Addition, when we tested 1 LED and 1 SMD, and based on common opinions, we would have needed at least one bulb, say 8 colors, at around a cost of $8000 for 1 base in colors...close to the $10K minimum order.

So at the least, $8-10K initial out of pocket, and a bit less than $20k for a second brightness.

At that point, and adding I did not want to start with the emails of "it doesnt work" when its a 35 year old SCR, and how to troubleshoot, or "Oh, if I knew it needed a $100 board, I wouldnt have spent the $50 for bulbs, Can I return, etc....

So with a 3-5 year break even, a choice of more pins or another bulb, more emails, I made a choice to say...Buy Seigecraft, Alltek, or other, and pick any bulb that makes you happy.

As most people buy $26/100 bulbs for this period, it simply made no business sense to me.

Now it doesnt mean the new owners, wont, or someone else wont, but I think the balance of the right bulbs, and the right board is a better solution now with the lower costs.