Thanks for the info. I have an EBD that I am trying to get into presentable cosmetic condition. LEDs would be just the thing to keep additional heat and strain off those 30+ year old boards.

Great Idea for the non-soldering people. Reversible mod which is a simple at replacing the LED w/ an incandescent.

I don't think it's going to reduce the current strain on the boards. But it should reduce the heat strain on the bulb sockets and inserts.

Ice Blue is an awesome color, really so much more useful than normal blue LEDs for many pinball purposes.

Thanks for taking the time to share with this post, VID.
The bulb is in Proto with Zitt, and another to help with initial prototyping.
As some PM have already been received, please allow me to share.
If adjustments are needed, we will adjust and re test.
After that, we will bring in a few hundred pieces and offer free to test by others,
and then go into production in all colors.
The goal is to eliminate the need for adding resistors, building a board, or expensing the purchase
of additional boards.....fingers crossed...it will take a little time.

Ice Blue has been flying off the shelves, and there was a post for a Black Hole, where the whole GI
was done...So far Ive used some in IMVE and in Tommy, but hope to do more, and see more from pinsiders who have been receiving them over the last few weeks....

SUNLIGHT has been a winner, and my favorite....I have heard from many who have changed out Whites in GI, for a less "Sterile", hospital look.
It is just the right Kelvin between the two whites for every game.
I encourage everyone to try a few, or on their next project.
I think you will be very impressed!

Ill keep everyone posted!

Thanks for the help, Vid, Herg, and Zitt!
As always, the community is better because of your contributions!

Art

Anyone else sensing a home run sellout when Art gets these stocked?
My Bally Star trek looks OLD and dim sitting next to the Star Trek: Mirror Universe.
I look forward to the conversion to LED now.

will these work on early williams, like system 9?

if so, i'll grab a few of those that's for sure.

Beatmaster - unknown. Is the Lamp Matrix on System 9 a set of SCRs?
If so; most likely.

Left sling: Sunlight bulbs

Right sling: Ice Blue bulbs

Lane guides: Frosted cool white (from Comet)

It looks darker than in real life because I set the balance against the bulb brightness, so the slings look pretty accurate (for an LED photo which suck) but the playfield doesn't.

IMG_2922.JPG

Sounds like a couple of mod/board providers got all butt-hurt over the fact someone finally designed a reasonable solution to this issue.

Man, this pissed me off so bad with my Future Spa... my friend that bought it will probably be real happy to see this come to light finally. No pun intended. I'd love to own another classic Stern game as well, so this is really appealing to me too.

Thanks Vid for the astute answers...and help.

It is exactly for those reasons. Several great solutions for great results!

I wont be creating Every LED in this manner, and most older games, tend to need more subtle light,
so I can certainly see needs for all 3.

I expect these bulbs to be no more then $.10 maximum over the existing counterpart, and I am leaning towards a 2 LED bulb, or a frosted 5050, so around $.69-$.79.

But it must go through several months of testing before its ready for purchase.

My reasoning for these LEDs is simple.
LAMP boards from these machines are dead simple. If anything is wrong with it; it's cracked solder joints, bad SCR, or a bad 1-16 decoder. All easily fixed. For ST:MU, I just shot gunned the Lamp Board; replacing all the decoders and reflowing all the connector joints. Board fixed.

For me those boards are dirt cheap off ebay in untested / unknown condition... the schematics are readily available so I never have to worry about some proprietary lamp board going bad without schematics.

So - these LEDs meet my criteria for a good product. Granted, MY view/use is specific and many likely won't share that view - but options are GOOD.

This is awesome, OLDPINGUY Glad someone finally is making LED bulbs with built-in resistors for the classic Bally/Sterns! No more soldering resistors on sockets, no having to buy a new Alltek or mod the original lamp driver board or any of that nonsense. Just plug in a bulb and it's all set.. should be the cheapest way to go for most people. Great work! Hope you sell lots and lots.. I'll definitely be ordering some in the future!

+1 When do you think they will be available?

2nd round of prototypes should arrive in 6 weeks or so.

We will have 15 sets of 10, offered free for testing. (+ shipping)
There will be a Pinside announcement, with the hope that the 15 will try and report back.
We are seeing if we may need 2 types of bulb for different groups of games....so still learning.
With your help, I will do all I can to make this a working choice for us Pinheads!

Glad to help test the bulbs - I have 9 classic Bally's in my collection.

Glad to see these are coming along nicely. I don't have any games that need them, but it's great for those that do. Will they have some sort of marking on them to identify them?

Good point..Thank you...In production Ill try to have them marked

Classic ballys don't have anything other than #47 bayonet bases.
Can't speak for stern - but don't see any value in #555 wedge bases.

I'm willing to help as well. I have a classic Bally and stern.

My Centaur and Embryon both have all 555 bases on the playfield and in the backbox.

Yeah all Bally's from 80/81 onward made the switch - not for the better.

I stand corrected then.

Been buying from Art now for over a year, great guy and great products! He has helped me with LED's for all my machines. Bally, Gotlieb, and Williams. Comet is the one and only source for LED bulbs!
http://www.cometpinball.com/

Any update on when we might see these?

These are a great idea. I could use some on my classic Bally's!

Pretty sure first qtr 2015.

SWEET! I've got a Flash Gordon I'm working on that might be ready just in time for this

In for updates- My Elektra and Flash will use these.

Well, I received the next batch for testing yesterday, but in typical Chinese fashion, they sent 555 instead of 44/47.

So a couple of questions, because I admit with no pleasure, my ignorance.

Do all the bulbs in a line need to be changed at the same time to test this new bulb?
or will leaving any incandescent in the line, alter the results?

With that, can these 555 be tested if alligator clipped to the series?

Is there one more tester out there, that really knows there stuff, to help this move faster to reality?

(I have received many different opinions as to what the solution is, and have created test numbers 2
and 3, meaning 2 new variations, as the first worked for some games, but reportedly not all, and I am
ignorant to what variation might exist between the range of games in thi series.....

So basically....I need more help.

On the Bally ST... most inserts are on their own SCR. So; flashing would be seen on any socket.

Happy new year all...

Not sure about how the software talks to them but on later games, there were AUX lamp boards which might be sent and latched data in a different way than the regular lamp driver PCB. This could explain different results on test games?

In regards to Vid's response about 2 bulbs and 1 SCR output. This also would skew the test if only 1 of the bulbs were replaced with the LED. With the 2nd bulb still being an incandescent lamp, there should be no flicker issue regardless of the type of LED used.

Art,
I'm no expert, but if you still need someone to plug in 555's and test it out, I'm getting pretty close to my Elektra being done. Elektra is all 555's.

I'd be happy to help out! I'm not looking for a freebie, if they work, I'm a paying customer

Thanks for what you contribute to this hobby!
-Brian

Well, this is part of what messes me up.

With all due respect to everyone.....Are you saying one bulb cant be tested if a second incandescent is present, and get a correct answer? Would all bulbs except one LED solve this, or Two?
Vid, Cactus Jack, John, some consensus out there how to achieve this?

Thank you Brian, I have had a few responses via PM, for whats in house at this time, but if that changes, or when a few hundred come in, we will make them available free for testing, and would be pleased to send some to you.

Art

I also have an EBDLE with 555s willing to help as well. Let me know.

Sorry Art, I am thinking you misunderstood me or at least the point that we were trying to make.

Based on your question, I am thinking you are thinking along the lines of the typical Lamp "Matrix" of the newer games. The Classic Bally and Stern games use a separate drive device (SCR) for each and every computer controlled lamp. No matrix of strobes and returns. However, as Vid pointed out, sometimes, these SCRs are used to drive 2 lamps at the same time. Both come on, or go off together.

So, as you well know, the problem with LEDs is they don't draw enough of a load on the SCR to make it turn on and off as designed. In the case of 2 lamp sockets sharing the same SCR, if one bulb is an incandescent, and 1 an LED, the LED will perform just fine because of the other incandescent lamp still being there to load the SCR.

So, when it comes to testing LEDs in these games, each socket and test is basically its own test. No other lamp socket or presence of LED should effect any others. Except in the case of a shared SCR. And then, you are only talking about a pair of sockets.

In Baby PacMan, they did start sharing each SCR with two lamps with different purpose. But this was done by using the opposite phase of the AC supply to basically double the total number of bulbs the driver board can handle.

My take... is that In the case where one SCR has two sockets... both tied to the same phase of the AC circuit; then The Incandescent would "hide" the loading issues of the LED. So for testing purposes; the LED would look/function properly even if the loading weren't right. IE one lamp would be enough "current" to meet the minimum latching current.

If CactusJack is correct about different phases; then the SCR must have been replaced by a Triac. An SCR wouldn't work on the negative phase as it's still a gate-controlled Diode. Never mind.
I just looked at the Baby Pac Schematics. What Bally did there was use a center tapped transformer with the center grounded. This is how they got away with using SCRs.

Thank you all for taking the time to help educate me....I think I understand this now.
The help is greatly appreciated!

Lets see what happens with these new derivations, and go from there.

(thank you chuckwurt, for offer to help....as these few have help already, I wont hope to ask your help
on the next round)

Art

Are we getting closer??