(Topic ID: 8877)

New Boston Pinball eBay Sales Data


By wizzardz

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by stashyboy
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Looks like the new data is up. Time to update the link

http://www.bostonpinball.biz/ebay1111.htm

1 year later
#2 6 years ago

That time of year again. Update your links for the new data if you use it.

http://www.bostonpinball.biz/ebay0513.htm

#3 6 years ago

Simply incredible data, I am always intrigued by these updates. We all knew that prices had risen rapidly but these price points clearly illustrate that the upward pressure on prices is continuing. Time to make sure your insurance values are up to date. Sure as hell wish my 401k's value had done so well. Thanks again to Boston Pinball for doing this.

#4 6 years ago

thanks for posting update

#5 6 years ago

Unfortunately it's a little useless at the moment.

With prices changing as quickly as they have been (on SS machines) 90 months average is WAY too long and totally useless.

The only useful data is YTD, but at the moment there are not enough sales to go by with most machines only recording about 1-3 sales YTD. When they get to 6 or more YTD sales recorded then you have some useful information.

#6 6 years ago

Observations:

EM prices continue to decline

Gottlieb Royal Flush, 2013 average: $603 (3 sold), 2011 average: $1393
(6 sold)
Space Mission, 2013: $528 (4), 2011: $561 (7)

I also think it's getting to a point now where the eBay prices for EMs
are no longer going to be accurate, as it's no longer economical to
list a B or C-list EM on eBay (or any EM that's not working). So we
will see prices stabilize if not go up, because most EMs are not
garnering enough money to warrant listing (or chargebacks from
consumers who receive games that might have issues), so only extremely
good condition games will end up being listed.

Even "A-list" EMs aren't getting much attention:

Bally Capt Fantastic, 2013: $1608 (9), 2011: $1405 (23)
Kiss, 2013: $2763 (16), 2011: $2409 (42)

Early SS games don't get much love either:

Bally Mata Hari, 2013: $548 (4), 2011: $1023 (12)
Black Knight, 2013: $1474 (8), 2011: $1345 (18)
High Speed, 2013: $1762 (7), 2011: $1245 (16)

B and C-list DMDs are not really increasing in value, instead sale
prices are adjusted based on availability

Judge Dredd: 2013 $1867 (3), 2011 $1513 (7)
T2: 2013 $1534 (5), 2011 $1470 (22)
FT: 2013 $2236 (8), 2011 $1794 (17)

A-list games aren't really doing that much better.... they seem to be
primarily increasing in price relative to limited availability:

MM: 2013 $13250 (2), 2011: $9080 (10)
TAF: 2013 $5518 (16), 2011: $3861 (58)
TSPP 2013 $4204 (6), 2011: $3627 (16)

I've been analyzing this data for years now and my feeling is what we
are seeing with the decline in values for older games and the
occasional peak is related mainly to older enthusiasts hitting a
"sweet spot" in their lives economically where they can afford luxury
items like pinball machines, so the market goes up, but in general the
market isn't really increasing. As enthusiasts age and stop
collecting, the older machines become less-desirable. IMO, it looks
like we are heading over the bubble and prices may not continue to go
up much more unless there's an increase in the pinball market - that
may still happen but the pricing, even though it seems high, looks to
be more of a reaction to limited availability (and hoarding by
collectors) than it is a lot of new people entering the market.

My feeling is, when you see a machine sell for a lot of money, even if it's a "grail game", this is more of an anomaly than a standard. When you take into account the lower number of games being sold, it's natural for there to be price increases. If grail or A-list games were sold in any significant quantity, my prediction is their prices wouldn't necessarily go up or remain stable, but go down quite a bit. But as long as desirable games are hoarded by collectors and less are being sold, the remaining collectors will continue to pay more. If the pinball market were increasing in any significant way, there'd be a more significant increase in prices. Of course, this analysis is based mainly on eBay sales, which some feel is not necessarily representative of the larger market. But I think it's a nice average of the other 3 main markets: collector sales (middle), high end sales (more expensive), and "CL finds" (great deals).

Another argument for the lower-quantity/slightly-higher-price thing is that maybe there are more off-eBay transactions? I honestly don't see it though. I think generally speaking there are less machines for sale this year as there have been in previous years not only on eBay but also CL and elsewhere. There may be more "for sale ads" but not as many selling as people put up games with a "make me sell"-price. I think some collectors who feel the market is getting out of hand are fixating on those sellers who aren't really pricing their machines to move.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Unfortunately it's a little useless at the moment.
With prices changing as quickly as they have been (on SS machines) 90 months average is WAY too long and totally useless.
The only useful data is YTD, but at the moment there are not enough sales to go by with most machines only recording about 1-3 sales YTD. When they get to 6 or more YTD sales recorded then you have some useful information.

I agree... It shows a shadow avg price is $1500?! Everyone knows that price they will be flying out everywhere

#8 6 years ago

I tend to agree on some points, but not others. Not alot of eBay sales, as I have sold quite a few and know many others who have sold in the Boston and other areas and NONE have been through eBay.

It's a combo of seasonal slowdown along with anticipation of upcoming titles that have decreased used pin sales, not necessarily a 'bubble' effect as much, the older a title collectors trying to sell their 'grail' titles at ever expanding prices which don't reflect condition are also turning buyers away. Hmmmm. 20 year old a title or new Tron? Metallic? WOZ? Possibly predator? Star Trek? AC/DC? Get it?

Upcoming and other newer technogies are making the dmd start to look aged, kinda like alphanumerics making reels look outdated.

Rick. "I'm gonna have me some fun." #190

#9 6 years ago

I think if there is a "new generation" of games that introduces some more appealing play dynamics, it could have the ability to hurt prices of older/DMD games. Unfortunately, I don't see any games in the pipeline that are going to create that kind of "paradigm shift" that would be needed. RGB LEDs are very cool, and can definitely enhance gameplay, but they may not be a game-changer. The same thing with large LCD screens. It's possible there could be some really well-made video modes that could make other games with video modes seem primitive, but as far as I know, that area isn't being developed. The same goes for inter-connectivity. I had high hopes for the next generation of games fully-exploiting the Internet but there doesn't appear to be any signs of that. I guess we will see. IMO, it still remains to be seen if the pinball market is big enough to support the kind of aggressive/creative development that companies employed in its heyday.

No matter what, grail games are always going to command money. As long as there is 1 collector in the market who doesn't have a grail game, that person will pay as much as he can to get it. Perhaps a more important question would be to dive into what other limitations enthusiasts are hamstrung by? Space? How much of their disposable income do they spend on games? Are they hitting their limit? Is this reflected in the current pricing trends?

#10 6 years ago

I think what would really help the may version of this price guide is, rather than Year To Date, replace that with Last 12 Months. The problem with the 90 month averages is that they don't accurately account for the recent growth, but YTD suffers from too little data.

For the time being, I always try to keep the November version bookmarked for comparison, as 6 month old data that spans 11 months of sales is better than current data that only spans 4-5 months in most cases.

I know they have the data, I assume it wouldn't be too hard to update the formulas in their spreadsheets. Hell, if they distributed their original spreadsheet files, we could do all sorts of selected averages. I think 2 year rolling average would be the most useful trade-off between too much and too little data.

But all that being said, I think it's fantastic that they post this data in the first place. My personal theory is that, worst case scenario if the "Pinball Bubble" pops in the short term, these machines will merely drop to their 90 month averages, so this guide helps me tremendously when buying to keep that in mind.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

I had high hopes for the next generation of games fully-exploiting the Internet but there doesn't appear to be any signs of that. I guess we will see. IMO, it still remains to be seen if the pinball market is big enough to support the kind of aggressive/creative development that companies employed in its heyday.

You should really check out what multimorphic is doing with the P3. It's the most game changing of any of the new offerings out there and they really are trying to build a product for the general consumer market as well as pinball collectors.

But even though the P3 is the most revolutionary new pinball product out there, IMO, I don't think technical revolutions are enough anymore to devalue a whole class of pins like has occurred in the past. The markets for pins are too different these days. In the past, you had to have the latest greatest to bring in he quarters, so every big new change made the old generation unappealing to short attention span kids. Now with the collector market, you have people prioritizing different things. That's why funhouses demand more than baywatches, despite the latter having much more advanced technology. I think as long as arcade era people are still alive, there will be a market for those games. It's when we all start dying off that we have a problem, but that's a long term problem. Unless these new MFG's fix that by creating new generations of fans...

#12 6 years ago

Yeah, that list is, well, way out of reality? Maybe I should sell my Tron LE without the mods for 6500? As it lists for 6299, I can net $200 bucks.
Of course the pro is worth 6999 in comparison cuz the amount sold were much higher.

They really need more data to make this list remotely relevant.
I had a guy tell me my lotr LE was worth less than the standard, so he would buy it for 4900 bucks, as he was a dealer ( he was buying parts from me at the time).
His basis was the 2010 BPA price list. Funny how these lists are suddenly gospel for the wheelers n dealers. Pssst.

Rick. "I'm gonna have me some fun." #190

#13 6 years ago

I disagree with you Pinball Help about EM prices going down. You may have found a couple titles that might indicate that, but overall trend is up, way up. You may be basing your opinions also on your local market-which frankly is much different from the pinball feeding frenzy we are experiencing up here in the northeast. There are no 'bargains' anymore on CL in this area, or they are gone 10 minutes after posting. The age of smartphones has seen to that. I haven't seen a decent project on any of the commonly used pinball listings for quite some time. The market has become quite competitive in the last year. There are not $400 Royal Flush games around here that just need a good cleaning and a couple switches adjusted in these parts. btw-Did you mean to include Kiss in that statement about EMs?

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