(Topic ID: 308208)

new bally paragon owner

By MyParagon1979

2 years ago


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  • 385 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Knxwledge
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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There are 385 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
#1 2 years ago

about 35 years ago, when i was a teenager, we got a Paragon machine. last week i totally spontaneously bought a Paragon machine so my 13 yo son can enjoy. we disassembled and transported home. i've spent the last 3 days inspecting everything. it's got a new CPU board, and everything else seems original. The previous owner, very reputable guy, played 20 games with 4 players the night before we came to wish it goodbye. and it played perfectly when we tested it. we removed the headboard and legs, and gently transported it home. Apparently, he had never removed the headboard before, so the electrical hadn't been detached.

Got a few issues..... First, when starting it will not always cycle to start the game. Second, at times it starts but no ball will be ejected to start playing, and the flippers aren't working.

this is my question, to the experts. The CPU board is new, the others are old. I believe the solenoid board needs to be repaired/replaced. it's original. I can either pay someone to come out and inspect and replace parts, or I can purchase and replace myself. I get the feeling it just needs updated/new components. i called a guy today, he was incredibly helpful over the phone. will charge $270 for first hour at my house. I feel like it's money well spent. he will teach me lots of hands on understanding of the mechanics and repairs.

on another note, the digital score displays are old, i was considering to buy from XPIN. i'm sure the trueists here prefer to rebuild, but i'm looking for an easy snap and go, and to enjoy playing. All advice welcomed and appreciated!

#2 2 years ago

You have many options for displays - don't be too set on only one - do some research.

https://www.pinballlife.com/ballystern-6-digit-led-display.html

If your original displays are working well (A) why replace them? or (B) you could probably get at least $20 each if you sold them on to help offset the cost of the replacements.

When is the second machine due???

#3 2 years ago

Connectors need to be replaced. All Bally's from this era suffer to some extent.
Once the connectors are changed you will be fine.

#4 2 years ago

At a minimum repin J3 & J4 on the SDB, and J4 on the MPU. Note that I repin every connector as a personal preference.

J3 & J4 on the SDB since they carry the signals to the board, J4 on the MPU since those pins usually get eaten up when the battery leaks on the original MPU.

#5 2 years ago

Classic Bally’s are good games both for gameplay & reparability. Tons of expertise and strong aftermarket support.

As others mentioned connectors are the most common issue. After that check voltages at the power supply and rectifier boards. The Bally rectifier boards are almost always pretty crispy and have had multiple repairs/hacks over the years. Buying a replacement rectifier is a good investment for reliability. The power supply can be rebuilt easily if you’re willing to solder. Check out the big daddy electronics site for repair kits.

#6 2 years ago

If the game was played the night before with no issues, then I would say double check your connectors and make sure your grounding strap for the cabinet is reattached to the strap in the head.

Check the fuse under the PF. Pull it and check continuity with a multimeter.

I would say at minimum, the header pins on your boards need fresh solder. Pretty simple if you have a decent soldering iron and solder. Just heat up the pad and pin with your iron and flow fresh solder onto it.

Keep it simple for now. If you do those few things and still have problems, then it might be somewhere else, but again, if the seller said he played a 4P game without issues, then something happened upon reassembly.

#7 2 years ago

Good board refurbishment guide: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing

Quoted from MyParagon1979:

Got a few issues..... First, when starting it will not always cycle to start the game. Second, at times it starts but no ball will be ejected to start playing, and the flippers aren't working.

With intermittent issues like that, I would suspect either issues with the header pins or connectors. With the header pins, they might be cracks in the solder joints on the back side of the board, or the pins themselves may be too tarnished or corroded to conduct signals/electric properly and might need to be replaced.

If you want to tackle that yourself, make sure you tackle the task of desoldering & soldering on a junk board that you don't care about for practice. The pads on original bally boards tend to be a bit fragile, and if you use too much heat for too long, the pads can separate and come off the board.

Quoted from MyParagon1979:

on another note, the digital score displays are old, i was considering to buy from XPIN.

If there're fully working, then it's not really necessary to spend the money on a new set of displays.

One thing that may be a good idea is to use the trimmer RT1 to reduce the voltage for the displays from 190v down to about 170v to help extend their life and prevent burn-in. (Use a multimeter to check the voltage--don't just turn it at random).

#8 2 years ago

Sounds like a problem with the 43v. I would start with resoldering J3 on the SD board. Also check the jumper on that connector. Nest check the connectors on the rectifier board. If there is any evidence of burning they should be rebuilt.

#9 2 years ago

I had a similar problem with my Paragon. As it turned out, connector J1 on the rectifier board had nine holes even though there were only eight pins. It was seated incorrectly and everything was in the wrong place. The 43 V that were supposed to go to the solenoid bus instead went to the control lamps and burned them all out.

I’m just thinking if it was working before you detached everything and now it is not working, that could be the issue. It is unfortunately a very easy mistake to make. At a minimum, double check that connector to make sure the right color wires are going to the correct pins.

#10 2 years ago

I seriously can't believe this community. This is absolutely amazing and I greatly appreciate all of the feedback and support. I thought i was just buying an old pinball machine, but thanks to Pinside, it looks like I'm joining a group of friends will have the same passion in both enjoying and maintaining my newly acquired old pinball machine!
It sounds like I'm better off taking my time and waiting for the local expert to come to my house. It will be money well spent. If I can learn how to better maintain the machine then I think I will have more fun and truly enjoy ownership.
Yesterday, when he talked with me for 20 minutes on the phone, he has me wiggle the upper right 24 pin attachment on the solenoid panel and everything was working fine. That's an original board and very 'crispy' as someone may have said.
regarding the displays, they are working, but the previous owner replaced the player 1 and it's perfect, the other displays have very poor resolution.
ultimately, my original question still stands, for someone who is looking for easy enjoyment and dependability, am I smarter to simply buy a new solenoid board for $150, instead of constantly chasing problems. The boards are 43 years old. At this time in my life I want dependability and don't want to curse this machine every few months because there is a new problem! I was looking at Alltek systems for the board.
Regarding the displays I'm happy to learn repairs, but that doesn't impact the machine starting and playing properly.
thank you all so very much, I would probably enjoy the process of soldering and repair more in about 10 years when my kids are out of the house, but for now I really just want them to have their friends over at our house, off of their dang cellphones, and enjoying the fun of playing a pinball machine!!!!!!!!!!!!

#11 2 years ago

Don’t forget to add Paragon to your pinside collection, and favorite this forum. To favorite it, click the link then click the star. Share some pictures of your Paragon in that forum.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/paragon-club-enter-the-valley-of-demons/page/22#post-6719685

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

I seriously can't believe this community. This is absolutely amazing and I greatly appreciate all of the feedback and support. I thought i was just buying an old pinball machine, but thanks to Pinside, it looks like I'm joining a group of friends will have the same passion in both enjoying and maintaining my newly acquired old pinball machine!
It sounds like I'm better off taking my time and waiting for the local expert to come to my house. It will be money well spent. If I can learn how to better maintain the machine then I think I will have more fun and truly enjoy ownership.
Yesterday, when he talked with me for 20 minutes on the phone, he has me wiggle the upper right 24 pin attachment on the solenoid panel and everything was working fine. That's an original board and very 'crispy' as someone may have said.
regarding the displays, they are working, but the previous owner replaced the player 1 and it's perfect, the other displays have very poor resolution.
ultimately, my original question still stands, for someone who is looking for easy enjoyment and dependability, am I smarter to simply buy a new solenoid board for $150, instead of constantly chasing problems. The boards are 43 years old. At this time in my life I want dependability and don't want to curse this machine every few months because there is a new problem! I was looking at Alltek systems for the board.
Regarding the displays I'm happy to learn repairs, but that doesn't impact the machine starting and playing properly.
thank you all so very much, I would probably enjoy the process of soldering and repair more in about 10 years when my kids are out of the house, but for now I really just want them to have their friends over at our house, off of their dang cellphones, and enjoying the fun of playing a pinball machine!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's the thing, if you own a pinball machine, it'll probably be in your best interest to learn how to fix problems. It'll be much easier on your wallet, and you get to learn some new skills. Plus, like you said, Pinside is always available (look at my thread history for proof ). Things break for apparently no reason with pinball. Even brand new games (sometimes moreso than the old ones.)

If you can wiggle the 24 pin connector on the solenoid driver board and things work, then the problem is cracked solder joints in the header pins. The board sounds like it is completely serviceable and once gone through, should last another 40 years. I would spend the money on a soldering iron and some solder, watch a couple YT videos and learn how to solder. Just my 2 cents.

#13 2 years ago

point well made, and I'm in agreement.
i think this is my plan......
I want to buy a replacement solenoid board and display so that I can A) remove the original and still use the machine, B) learn how to identify and solder the correct pins without a horrible fear of messing up, and C) have backup if needed.
so, that being said..... is Alltek the correct purchase for the solenoid board...... and is pinballlife a good choice for the display?
for $200 I'll be much happier learning on the old machine.
another question, i have EIKO light bulbs, and they are quite difficult to push into the sockets. any other options better?
thank you all so much!
FYI i didn't realize how great the response would be, I will use my phone and send photos. there was some wacky wiring attaching that someone previous did, and i'm curious of the input.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

i think this is my plan......
I want to buy a replacement solenoid board and display so that I can A) remove the original and still use the machine, B) learn how to identify and solder the correct pins without a horrible fear of messing up, and C) have backup if needed.
so, that being said..... is Alltek the correct purchase for the solenoid board...... and is pinballlife a good choice for the display?
for $200 I'll be much happier learning on the old machine.

I think that’s a good plan. Having a fully functioning board will give you the confidence to learn repairs on the old board. If you have never soldered before, especially on boards, I can understand not wanting the added stress of messing up your only board.

Alltek is a good choice. You can buy directly from them. It might even be a bit cheaper.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

point well made, and I'm in agreement.
i think this is my plan......
I want to buy a replacement solenoid board and display so that I can A) remove the original and still use the machine, B) learn how to identify and solder the correct pins without a horrible fear of messing up, and C) have backup if needed.
so, that being said..... is Alltek the correct purchase for the solenoid board...... and is pinballlife a good choice for the display?
for $200 I'll be much happier learning on the old machine.
another question, i have EIKO light bulbs, and they are quite difficult to push into the sockets. any other options better?
thank you all so much!
FYI i didn't realize how great the response would be, I will use my phone and send photos. there was some wacky wiring attaching that someone previous did, and i'm curious of the input.

Alltek is a good choice, but consider an alternative.

https://nvram.weebly.com/bally---stern-pcbs.html

Andrew (@barakandl) makes these boards and is active on this forum. I've always bought his boards when needed and they are great and less expensive.

For prebuilt aftermarket displays, you can go with XPin, Pinitech, Pinscore, or (once you get your soldering skills down (*nudge nudge*) you can go with DIY display sets from Wolf Pac.

https://www.wolffpactech.com/

I've used his displays on several games that needed replacements and they are great.

And just to add, I've been where you are now a handful of years ago, but with the help of Pinside, I've learned a great deal and prefer to troubleshoot the old boards, unless they are so far gone that a new board makes sense. And I learned on a Paragon

#16 2 years ago

A bonus for the after market displays is that they do not use the high voltage section of the SDB. If your hi voltage section is fused, just remove the fuse.

#17 2 years ago

So Excited!
i can't believe that i just got this machine 2 days ago,
and i just bought the solenoid panel and display.
the amount of knowledge I've gained from this chat is simply amazing.
I will purchase a soldering kit and once I've replaced the boards will begin to try and repair the old ones.
I'll send photos shortly.....
also, any advise on changing light bulbs?
are there easier bulbs to use?
I have EIKO.
thanks!

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

So Excited!
i can't believe that i just got this machine 2 days ago,
and i just bought the solenoid panel and display.
the amount of knowledge I've gained from this chat is simply amazing.
I will purchase a soldering kit and once I've replaced the boards will begin to try and repair the old ones.
I'll send photos shortly.....
also, any advise on changing light bulbs?
are there easier bulbs to use?
I have EIKO.
thanks!

Be careful when buying replacement boards. Some use surface mount parts and unless your soldering skills are pretty polished these will be written off (or at the very least need to be sent out for repair) if you have a problem down the track.

There are lots of options these days so don't settle on the first one you find - look around and check on the experience of others. Some boards are great but have zero support, look out for that.

EIKO lamps are one of the most common available - no problem with them and it's GOOD if they are a tight fit.

When is the second machine arriving? You will need another so you still have something to play while the Paragon is waiting for parts!!!

#19 2 years ago

So funny,
I didn’t understand why everyone was asking about the second machine.
I get it now!!!!!!!!!!
I can’t stop playing!!!!!!

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#20 2 years ago

Any recommendations for a ‘good enough’ soldering kit? Was just looking on Amazon….

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

also, any advise on changing light bulbs?
are there easier bulbs to use?
I have EIKO.
thanks!

One thing you’ll soon discover is that Bally lamp sockets suck. They are constantly flaky. At some point, after you develop some tech and soldering skills, you may want to try yoppsicles as a more reliable alternative. I haven’t tried them yet, but I’m considering it. There’s a thread on Pinside about them.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

Any recommendations for a ‘good enough’ soldering kit? Was just looking on Amazon….

If you’re just soldering switches and coils, you can get by with a cheap kit. If you do want to try board work, you really need something that is temperature controlled. A lot of us use Hakko. It is more costly, but very good quality.

#23 2 years ago

Ok, are you all freakin’ mind readers, or am I just a little boy again. I just got permission from my wife to buy another machine! The kids can’t stop playing. I’m smiling. No cellphones in the game room. Unbelievable! FYI my new solenoid board hasn’t even arrived yet. And the machine has been playing fine.
I have read many reviews and opinions. I like paragon a lot. I don’t want a loud machine.
I don’t need fancy. Just needs to be fun.
Questions….
1) should I stick with Bally for familiarity and learning and parts
2) should I stick with similar generation or consider newer.
I spent $2,000 for a very good, but not pristine paragon. Thinking similar price point.
Someone is selling a Stern Meteor machine locally for $2,000. Looks more basic than paragon.
Thanks!

#24 2 years ago

Hahahaha - I would stick with a simpler machine.

Complex (read - "more modern") machines bring with them far more complex electronic repair challenges which IMO are best left until you have a good grounding in how electronic pinball machines work overall before diving in too deep.

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

One thing you’ll soon discover is that Bally lamp sockets suck. They are constantly flaky. At some point, after you develop some tech and soldering skills, you may want to try yoppsicles as a more reliable alternative. I haven’t tried them yet, but I’m considering it. There’s a thread on Pinside about them.

Do it. I used yoppsicles leds for the first time yesterday on a Harlem Globetrotters, and they were awesome. As painless to install as possible, and a great result. Couldn't recommend them enough.

#26 2 years ago

Meteor is great, fast and furious. Also Firepower is great, with the best sound effects in pinball.

I've replaced all my solid state games displays with LED displays, Bally machines are pure plug and play kits, William's come with a replacement board but still are simple.

I've bought X pin display kits and the Marco brand and been happy with both.

And as stated above, led displays remove the High Voltage.

Welcome to the Paragon club, beware the Beast.

Cheers.

#27 2 years ago

Thoughts on Meteor vs Motordome?

#28 2 years ago

Meteor

#29 2 years ago

Meteor by a country mile! It's also a much easier game to repair and source replacement parts/boards etc for. Congrats!

#30 2 years ago

Quick paragon tech question.
The left upper saucer (has a metal prong that pops out the ball) is slightly off, meaning instead of popping into the thumper bumper it sometimes misses and sends the ball to the outlane! Is that a simple bend of the saucer lift from under the table?
Thanks!

#31 2 years ago
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#32 2 years ago
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#33 2 years ago

Congrats, Paragon's a great game, so are a lot of the early SS Ballys. If it were me, for the second game I would get an EM but they are a completely different beast in terms of repair, not recommended for someone green on repairs. As for your saucer, it could be the metal prongs are bent (Im not sure what angle they're supposed to be bent at exactly), but I would maybe suspect a dirty coil sleeve and plunger if the prongs stick at all.

A side note, did you buy the game fully clean and shopped out? Those rubbers look pretty dirty, and so does the playfield.

#34 2 years ago

The arm looks to be bent off to one side - lift the playfield and inspection should reveal if it just needs a slight bend or if there is some bush/bearing related slop causing it.

#35 2 years ago

Thanks for the advice, will bend this weekend.
Regarding game condition, it was an impulse buy. Had a paragon when I was a teenager and my dad was 50. I’m 50 and bought to enjoy with my teenager!
I changed some rubber to new, others are stale, I have extras to change rubbers. Previous owner had the game for 25 years and occasionally had someone ‘service’ the machine. My goal was to have fun, not too worried about cosmetics or resale.
On that note, can I clean the playfield? I tried with a damp soft cloth. Otherwise, I was planning to address rubber and drop pins over time.
FYI, I did get what I wanted…… smiling when I get home from work and before bed playing non stop!

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

Thanks for the advice, will bend this weekend.
Regarding game condition, it was an impulse buy. Had a paragon when I was a teenager and my dad was 50. I’m 50 and bought to enjoy with my teenager!
I changed some rubber to new, others are stale, I have extras to change rubbers. Previous owner had the game for 25 years and occasionally had someone ‘service’ the machine. My goal was to have fun, not too worried about cosmetics or resale.
On that note, can I clean the playfield? I tried with a damp soft cloth. Otherwise, I was planning to address rubber and drop pins over time.
FYI, I did get what I wanted…… smiling when I get home from work and before bed playing non stop!

Not saying it was a bad purchase, but from what I read I thought you bought it from a collector who had freshly shopped it. Must have misunderstood. I would suggest swapping all rubbers with fresh Titan rubbers and cleaning the playfield with CP100 and Novus 2 on a microfiber towel. Can wax with paste carnuba wax after cleaning

#37 2 years ago

Thanks for the advice!
I only took it as honest feedback.
I wanted a machine that fully works and had been recently played, and most importantly a Paragon! I’ve learned that if I get things too nice I’m afraid to use them, and this is something I want to enjoy playing!

#38 2 years ago

The game will play a lot better with fresh rubbers all 'round and this is a great father/child job. Easy to do and should only take an hour.

I wouldn't worry too much about being specific with (as one example) 'Titan' brand rubbers - there are many suppliers of equally fine rubber that will make your game seem fresh and will probably only set you back $30~40 for all of them.

Look up the manual for what size rubbers to order and the number of each. Manual here if you don't have it: https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=paragon&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#1755

I use cheapo spray can furniture polish on my playfields but it is generally recommended to use Novus for cleaning playfields and posts/rubbers etc.

#39 2 years ago

This community is awesome!
I have extra rubbers and just bought novus 2 on Amazon.
Not sure if I should start a new post for this one…..
About half the time when I turn it on it doesn’t ‘engage’ to start. I ordered a new solenoid panel because of issues described above and not wanting to stop playing while learning soldering. Will this new solenoid fix the starting issue? FYI new MPU board.

#40 2 years ago

Possibly BUT you are better off trying to narrow the issue rather than 'shotgunning' ANY repair.

The very first place to start - and NEVER skip this step - EVER!!! Get a multimeter and learn how to use it if you don't already know and measure the power supply voltages coming from the power rectifier board mounted near the mains power transformer.

These rectifier boards are all pretty crusty after so many years of use and really should be replaced if you haven't already done so (or it may have already been replaced). Here is a link to one type (there are many different manufacturers of these and they are all pretty much OK). https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AS-2518-18

Understand that unless ALL the power supply voltages are close to spec the machine can never work correctly, so start by eliminating that as a possible cause of dozens of sometimes seemingly random and unfathomable issues.

Also learn about "the seven flashes" of the LED on the MPU board - this will help you identify possible problems on the MPU or it's supply voltages (but you already checked those voltages, right? So it can't be that - hahaha)

#41 2 years ago

You are absolutely correct.
The rectifier board (located on the right side?) is old and very dirty.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

You are absolutely correct.
The rectifier board (located on the right side?) is old and very dirty.

......and....its connectors are also likely to be quite burnt and cactus. This can cause 50% of the reported problems in this era of machine (along with all connectors on EVERY board needing re-pinning, but save that for another day).

That board I linked to includes all new plugs and connectors needed to complete the FULL replacement/repair of this board and all for just $69.95.

Other brands of this board may also include the connectors but you would have to check that as I don't know, I have only ever used this one for my repairs.

#43 2 years ago

Kids are asleep, can’t access now, but can you tell if rectifier board was replaced? You mentioned the connectors, and appears they were changed?

4281937C-957B-48EA-BF7F-4030BFEB4B15 (resized).jpeg4281937C-957B-48EA-BF7F-4030BFEB4B15 (resized).jpeg
#44 2 years ago

I tried starting with the headboard open.
I either get all the green ‘seven flashes’ on the MPU or absolutely none

#45 2 years ago

That rectifier board looks reasonably good - so do the connectors. Someone has replaced the wires to the plugs and joined them - it looks a bit 'agricultural' but (as long as those joints are soldered) should be OK for now.

No flashes could be anything BUT - measure supply voltages BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!!

I can't emphasize this enough and you MUST drill it into your mind - measure FIRST whenever you have ANY electronic issue.

There will be voltage test points on the MPU - find these and have your meter at the ready when you boot.

#46 2 years ago

I have a multimeter and have used before for automotive, but never pinball application. I found a video on locations to test the rectifier board, but not the MPU board……

#47 2 years ago

What sort of MPU is fitted? Is it original or an Altek replacement?

You will also be doing yourself a HUGE favor by reading through all of this - at least twice!

https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

#48 2 years ago

Replacement MPU

972F6188-2DCE-46D6-8AFD-41D688ABCBB5 (resized).jpeg972F6188-2DCE-46D6-8AFD-41D688ABCBB5 (resized).jpegB6DCCE33-0A81-42C0-9410-095D643E1A3F (resized).jpegB6DCCE33-0A81-42C0-9410-095D643E1A3F (resized).jpeg
#49 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

What sort of MPU is fitted? Is it original or an Altek replacement?
You will also be doing yourself a HUGE favor by reading through all of this - at least twice!
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

Overwhelming amount of information, very helpful. I read the voltage info and understand locations for rectifier board, but still need a diagram for MPU testing locations.

#50 2 years ago

I would remove that battery and replace it with one not mounted on the playfield.

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