(Topic ID: 308208)

new bally paragon owner

By MyParagon1979

2 years ago


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  • 385 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Knxwledge
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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There are 385 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 8.
#301 2 years ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

What VAC reading do you have at test point 4 on the new rectifier board?

I'll check that..

Quoted from ODENONMYSIDE513:

Did you try and change the bulbs? I did the exact same thing on my Lost World and ended up blowing the lower string of GI bulbs

I just can't believe that every bulb would blow. I'll check that too

#302 2 years ago
Quoted from pacman11:

I just can't believe that every bulb would blow.

Easy to understand if you put 50V on them instead of the 6V they run at!

#303 2 years ago

Yep, I did it twice when setting up my Paragon. Had to replace every gi bulb on the playfield. Twice!

#304 2 years ago

I’m repinning the rectifier board connector this weekend. Y’all have made me nervous. Anticipate photos of my work prior to turning on the machine!

#305 2 years ago

This is my first attempt at repinning ever.
Can someone please confirm the crimping looks ok? It’s looking ok in the connector? And the wires appear in correct position? Based on recent posts I’m petrified I’ll blow all the GI on the playfield…..

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#306 2 years ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Update found my J1 connector was one connector off.. Game is now booting. One problem is I have NO general illumination lighting on playfield. Backglass lights are working though.
All fuses are good, had to replace the 10am fuse, F1 do you guys think I could have blown one of the Bridges on the new board for the general illumination?
[quoted image]

For my knowledge, your J1 was one pin off when you pushed it onto the board? Not that your pinning of the connector was one pin off, because I’ve done the same as you..,,

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#307 2 years ago

Looks nice. Just do one wire at a time and it's hard to go wrong.

It's always worth taking 20 pics before you start from every possible angle - just in case!

#308 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

Looks nice. Just do one wire at a time and it's hard to go wrong.
It's always worth taking 20 pics before you start from every possible angle - just in case!

Yay, but I had a birds nest. The wires were spliced, then all changed colors. Was a mess!
How about my question about blowing the GI. Was the connector into the wrong pins? I intentionally put a spacer plug where told, to avoid that.

#309 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

Yay, but I had a birds nest. The wires were spliced, then all changed colors. Was a mess!
How about my question about blowing the GI. Was the connector into the wrong pins? I intentionally put a spacer plug where told, to avoid that.

The "polarising pin" goes in the hole/pin position of the shell/housing that corresponds with the one that is not occupied on the PCB so the plug can't (easily) be installed incorrectly.

#310 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

For my knowledge, your J1 was one pin off when you pushed it onto the board? Not that your pinning of the connector was one pin off, because I’ve done the same as you..,,
[quoted image]

When you get that bottom one done can you post a picture for me.. Still have a GI problem. Thanks

#311 2 years ago

Paragon - the red wire you crimped will work, however, the strands are too long. They should not be on top of the little clip that locks the pin into place on the connector. That clip has to be pushed down in order to get past the locking lip in the connector. If that clip does not have enough room to be pushed under that lip, you may never get that pin out again without damaging the connector body. Once that lip in the connector body is damaged, it may not hold a pin in place when putting the connector onto a circuit board.

This is why I always look at the back of each connector after plugging it in, especially if I don't know the history. If the lock mechanism is bad, you will see the back of the pin raised above the connector body. You can push it back into the connector and hope the friction fit keeps the pin in place.

Good effort - you're getting better.

#312 2 years ago

The inner part of the pin on the red wire should be tighter. Did you get the 18 gauge pins or the 22? You want that crimp to be really tight, the goal is to make the wires one mass (airtight). (Don't solder it though.... big mistake a lot of people make)

It looks like you got the type of crimpers that you have to do 2 crimps on each pin based on the crimp. If not, it's not forming the crimp correctly (should look like a sideways B, with no gap in the center of the B).

I got one of the $29-$39 economy types and never looked back. I have the other one that you have to do 2 crimps per pin but haven't used it for anything since getting the one with the die. You can make good crimps with the 2 type but it takes a lot of practice. Like Billc479 says, you have too much wire on the other side of the pin. You want barely any coming through, there's zero advantage to having that wire there (unless your plan was to solder to it.... which is a bad plan)

There was just an article on hack a day about crimping a couple days ago worth looking at. Turns out some bad crimps caused many fires in some AC equipment.

#313 2 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

The inner part of the pin on the red wire should be tighter. Did you get the 18 gauge pins or the 22? You want that crimp to be really tight, the goal is to make the wires one mass (airtight). (Don't solder it though.... big mistake a lot of people make)
It looks like you got the type of crimpers that you have to do 2 crimps on each pin based on the crimp. If not, it's not forming the crimp correctly (should look like a sideways B, with no gap in the center of the B).
I got one of the $29-$39 economy types and never looked back. I have the other one that you have to do 2 crimps per pin but haven't used it for anything since getting the one with the die. You can make good crimps with the 2 type but it takes a lot of practice. Like Billc479 says, you have too much wire on the other side of the pin. You want barely any coming through, there's zero advantage to having that wire there (unless your plan was to solder to it.... which is a bad plan)
There was just an article on hack a day about crimping a couple days ago worth looking at. Turns out some bad crimps caused many fires in some AC equipment.

Thank you both for your advice and guidance.
Actually, if you look at my first photo of the connector on the rectifier board the white and green wires were upside down ‍♂️.
Fortunately, I saw it and now have turned around, all lock mechanisms are seated correctly. See photo….
I understand the excess wire, I was thinking better safe than sorry, but if the lock mechanisms are seated then is it ok?
Obviously, the next time I crimp I’ll leave less wire.
Also, regarding the crimping on the wire sheathing, I always flat crimp over the sheathing to confirm tight.
Lastly, one of my pins didn’t really B crimp over the wire, but there was good connection and it locked in place. Is this safe? I’m just not sure which wire…..

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#314 2 years ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Alright replaced bride rectifier and now the F4 -5amp fuse is blowing. Game won’t boot led flashes 6 times and stops. Trying to figure out what I wired wrong. I labeled everything too. Any help would be appreciated.
Weird thing is I am missing J3 pin 13 white/yellow wire
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

My #13 white yellow is missing as well!!!!!
Did you resolve?

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#315 2 years ago

Also, I probably burned through 30 pins with bad crimping….

#316 2 years ago

Interest old attachment.
Looks simple.
Reliable?????

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#317 2 years ago

Guess what?!?!?!??
Headboard lights are now working!!!!!!
And the machine is playing great!!!!!!

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#318 2 years ago

Wow!!!!!
1) I was shocked at how much I enjoyed pinning!
2) many of the wires wouldn’t reach. I left two spliced with tape, but then realized I needed to carefully cut the snap tie to release.
I’m exhausted…….

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#319 2 years ago

Repair work can be as much fun as flipping, really.

Good Job.

Those Vampire type connectors are not as reliable as a Molex Connection.

When you get the time, splice those wires properly. Solder and shrink wrap over the joint and it will clean up nicely.

IF you want to replace with properly color coded wire, WireBot in WI has coded wire available.

#320 2 years ago

The connector you show is an "IDC" - Insulation Displacement Connector. It does exactly that, it cuts through the insulation (displaces) to make connection with the wire.

They are used for manufacturing because they are FAST to assemble when compared to the crimp type connector.

They are not reliable and can't carry anywhere near the current of a correctly crimped connector.

I suspect they are partly responsible for the many burnt connector issues experienced in later model WMS era machines where they were used almost exclusively.

#321 2 years ago

I found someone willing to sell me plasma gas 6 digit displays for $25 each. Are Bally and stern interchangeable?

#322 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

I found someone willing to sell me plasma gas 6 digit displays for $25 each. Are Bally and stern interchangeable?

Yes

If you are going to stick with plasma displays do them a favor and turn the voltage on the solenoid driver board down from 190 to about 170/180V to prolong their life and prevent some burn. The brightness level will barely change but the displays will thank you.

#323 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

Yes
If you are going to stick with plasma displays do them a favor and turn the voltage on the solenoid driver board down from 190 to about 170/180V to prolong their life and prevent some burn. The brightness level will barely change but the displays will thank you.

Any chance you can send me a photo on how to do that?
Assuming there is no issue if I have 4 plasma gas and one LED display?

#324 2 years ago

Mixing displays should be OK - just watch out with the LED one as it doesn't need the high voltage (pin one of the display connector) - the others need it.

You have fitted an Altek solenoid board and they don't have an adjustment for the high voltage. But this does highlight what I said right at the start - LOOK around before buying - the Altek are great BUT (IMO) using surface mount parts basically means you will throw the board away of it has a problem or you will need to send it out for repair which probably wouldn't be worth while.

Some other replacement solenoid boards use through hole parts just like the original AND they have an adjustment for the high voltage so you can help your displays last longer. That's why I suggest researching before jumping at the first option you see.

It's all OK - things will work fine. Sometimes it's 'nicer' to be able to do things such as wind the voltage down - I'm just pointing that out.

#325 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

Mixing displays should be OK - just watch out with the LED one as it doesn't need the high voltage (pin one of the display connector) - the others need it.
You have fitted an Altek solenoid board and they don't have an adjustment for the high voltage. But this does highlight what I said right at the start - LOOK around before buying - the Altek are great BUT (IMO) using surface mount parts basically means you will throw the board away of it has a problem or you will need to send it out for repair which probably wouldn't be worth while.
Some other replacement solenoid boards use through hole parts just like the original AND they have an adjustment for the high voltage so you can help your displays last longer. That's why I suggest researching before jumping at the first option you see.
It's all OK - things will work fine. Sometimes it's 'nicer' to be able to do things such as wind the voltage down - I'm just pointing that out.

I seriously always appreciate your opinions and insight. Thank you!
I jumped on the LED display too quickly. Getting a few plasma gas makes more sense.
Live and learn, but most most importantly is I’m having FUN!!!!!!!

#326 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

I seriously always appreciate your opinions and insight. Thank you!
I jumped on the LED display too quickly. Getting a few plasma gas makes more sense.
Live and learn, but most most importantly is I’m having FUN!!!!!!!

....and....you will gain enough knowledge and skills in the meantime to probably be able to repair your original driver board, re-fit it to the machine and THEN wind down the voltage.

Keep at it!!

#327 2 years ago

My General Illumination isn’t working. Anyone see the difference between these two connectors? Mine is on the left.. Trying to figure it out.. Maybe the white/brown wire isn't correct on mine. My wires are a lot more dirtier and harder to tell, but looks like the brown band is smaller on his then mine..

E05D9297-5EA2-4682-A7AE-4FEBFDE7A619 (resized).jpegE05D9297-5EA2-4682-A7AE-4FEBFDE7A619 (resized).jpeg

#328 2 years ago
Quoted from pacman11:

My General Illumination isn’t working. Anyone see the difference between these two connectors? Mine is on the left.. Trying to figure it out.. Maybe the white/brown wire isn't correct on mine. My wires are a lot more dirtier and harder to tell, but looks like the brown band is smaller his then mine..
[quoted image]

Remember my 3rd and 4th from the left are spliced and not correct coloring. Otherwise, looks same.

#329 2 years ago

Simple question….
I need to replace a light socket on the top of the playfield. I’ve been having my 13 yo son hold it up higher so I can get up there. I see many people who take photos of their playfield standing upright. Do I need to disconnect wiring to the headboard? Or just lift the playfield all the way up?

#330 2 years ago

Your harness should have enough play that you can stand the PF up and lean it against the headbox. Just be careful to keep it square so it doesn't bind.

#331 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

the Altek are great BUT (IMO) using surface mount parts basically means you will throw the board away of it has a problem or you will need to send it out for repair which probably wouldn't be worth while.

Alltek has lifetime warranty, and will mail you a new board once he gets your broken one.

#332 2 years ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Alltek has lifetime warranty, and will mail you a new board once he gets your broken one.

That's great but there simply is no reason (apart from cost saving for the manufacturer) to make a HUGE board this massive size with SMD parts. That is NOT why they were invented. Boards like this are far better being made using through hole parts where available.

As I have already shown, some are available that are made with through hole parts so obviously these parts are still available - AS WELL as having adjustable high voltage which the Altek does not - a major fail IMO.

#333 2 years ago

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart!
What a wonderful journey this has been.
I successfully soldered two SCR on the lamp board, and everything is working great.
There is only one issue remaining….. a lamp that won’t work. I replaced the lamp socket with a brand new, and inspected the lamp board at length. I can see where the wire goes into the connector….. but the wiring diagrams in the booklet are inconsistent and I’m unsure of the corresponding point on the lamp board……

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#334 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart!
What a wonderful journey this has been.
I successfully soldered two SCR on the lamp board, and everything is working great.
There is only one issue remaining….. a lamp that won’t work. I replaced the lamp socket with a brand new, and inspected the lamp board at length. I can see where the wire goes into the connector….. but the wiring diagrams in the booklet are inconsistent and I’m unsure of the corresponding point on the lamp board……
[quoted image][quoted image]

I would try replacing the SCR associated with that lamp. Which lamp is it?

#335 2 years ago

Note the lamp driver board connector pins are numbered upside down. Pin 1 is at the bottom, not the top. The pin 4 red-green wire you're looking for is 4th from the bottom of J3.

#336 2 years ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

I would try replacing the SCR associated with that lamp. Which lamp is it?

It’s the second (right) A on the saucer paragon up top.
I had to go to work for an hour…. Heading home now and will take photos…..

#337 2 years ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

It’s the second (right) A on the saucer paragon up top.
I had to go to work for an hour…. Heading home now and will take photos…..

You can try jumpering the lamp next to it that's working to the one that's not working to ensure it's not a wiring issue

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#338 2 years ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

You can try jumpering the lamp next to it that's working to the one that's not working to ensure it's not a wiring issue
[quoted image]

Not sure jumpering is gonna happen here. Based on technical limitations.
It was my mistake reading the diagrams, because I didn’t understand the lamp driver schematic was not in order……

Wait….. since J3 is upside down I’m holding the wrong wire, that’s wire 5 from the bottom!

#339 2 years ago

This is the correct wire……

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#340 2 years ago

I changed SCR Q5 and q12

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#341 2 years ago

Q59 corresponds to the right A light

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#342 2 years ago

It’s the A after the R.

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#343 2 years ago

Sorry….. I ramble on……
I guess the question is SCR vs IDK (I don’t know).
I could get a piece of wire and run it from the socket and repin into the connector? Right?
But then I’ll need to buy wire and pins…. And why would one wire of a bunch go bad?
Or
I could change SCR Q59???? But it looks pretty. Can they ‘silent blow’?

#344 2 years ago

Go ahead and change Q59. They don’t cost much, and yes, any and all components can fail and not give a visual indication.

If only it were that easy to tell when a component is bad….

#345 2 years ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Go ahead and change Q59. They don’t cost much, and yes, any and all components can fail and not give a visual indication.
If only it were that easy to tell when a component is bad….

Did you see my q12?!!?!?!!!
That’s easy to tell!!!!

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#346 2 years ago

Yeah - that one failed hard just to help you out.

#347 2 years ago

They don’t all fail that way.

Just pulling your leg on the “help you out”.

#348 2 years ago

I’m changing q59 now.
Cut myself really badly on a header pin.
Blood all over the lamp board!
If this doesn’t work I think I’ll be done with a dead A for awhile……

#349 2 years ago

Semiconductors in general - transistors/SCRs/MOSFETS/diodes and many more different types - *usually* fail by either shorting or going open circuit without any external visible anomalies.

Your Q12 was an isolated example and is not what you are likely to find moving forward.

The only way of knowing for sure is to measure them either with a multimeter (and knowing how to interpret what it tells you) or with a component tester. It's normal to measure operating voltages using a meter while the power is on to confirm if a circuit is working as it should be but this will come to you with more experience.

#350 2 years ago

Considering this is literally my first day ever soldering a board, I’m proud of how it looks!!!!

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