NEW Bally -35 / Stern MPU-200 Repro boards

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Parts - for sale

NEW Bally -35 / Stern MPU-200 Repro boards

Added: 2017-01-16 23:00:00 UTC • Re-listed: 2 times (April 11th, 2017) • Ended: June 24th, 2017
Condition: New (selling multiple, business)

Price

$ 150 (Firm)

Price is firm

Hi Pinside,

I had new Repro MPUs for Bally -17 / -35 and Stern MPU100/MPU200 games made. The new board has upgrades over the original design that reduce the PCB size, complexity, and component count.

I used a 6802 CPU over the 6800 CPU which has allows for a simpler board layout. The 6802 has an internal clock circuitry which reduce the clock section to a crystal and two capacitors. This eliminates U16 and numerous passive components. The 6802 also has internal RAM which eliminates the U7 6810 RAM.

I used a reset controller device that simplifies the reset section to one component. No more 12v, no more super hot 82 ohm resistor, longer power on reset delay.

NVRAM! Board has SO28 and DIL28 pads for FM16(w)08(b) ferro tech NVRAMs. SRAM will purposely not work (no batteries!)

No complex jumper patterns. Right now 2732 EPROMs at U2 and U6 is the only EPROM setup. The only jumpers are six 'B' jumpers and six 'S' jumpers. When 'B' is in, the board is set for Bally -17, Bally -35, and Stern MPU-100. When 'S' is in the board is set to MPU-200. Bally clock speed is 0.5mhz, MPU-200 clock speed is 0.895mhz.

Board has a smaller size over the original. It mounts with the upper right grounding screw and 3 of the plastic stand offs.

Design has been testing for a month now and is solid. Price is $150 shipped. I will set up the board for your game.

The quantities are limited for this batch of repros. This is an ongoing project. I will be making revisions and enhancing the board. The $150 price point will likely go up on next board revision.

Few ideas for the future. Different single (larger) eprom and ram option(s). Open up the FM1608 for ram expansion for custom software. Solder it yourself DIY Kits. Working with a vendor to provide one click ordering of most the components needed to assemble the board. Smaller board layout. SMT version (even smaller pcb). Replacing all the logic gates with HC/HCT parts.

Message me if you want one.

Thank you
Andrew

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Item location

Columbus, OH, US

2

#2 7 years ago

---

ForceFlow

9y 238K 31,369 268 14

Nice job, looks good

This looks like a nice option for folks who like to run modified game ROMs

3

#3 7 years ago

NMS

nikpinball

Pinside member

Cleveland, OH

10y 77,050 1,249 7 30

So it's like an ultimate but you provide your own rom chips and pay $50 less? Sounds excellent if im understanding it correctly.

#4 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

Nice

#5 7 years ago

CHD

Cheddar

I don't need one right now but I'd love to grab a kit when you have them

#6 7 years ago

JOS

hotwheelerguy

Inactive member

Albertville, MN

8y 40,150 103 6

This is really cool!

Always nice to have more cost effective options for replacing boards.

#7 7 years ago

---

ForceFlow

9y 238K 31,369 268 14

In sharing this with someone else, they had a question--does this board have any effect on the ghosting of LEDs?

#8 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Quoted from ForceFlow:
In sharing this with someone else, they had a question--does this board have any effect on the ghosting of LEDs?

The feature lamps on my board done 100% identical to the original PCB. Zero cross interrupt, clock speed, and PIA setup is the same to the original Bally design.

I do not think there is any getting around the LED flickering latching requirements of the SCRs on the lamp driver besides adding extra load to keep the LEDs lit. 120hz interrupt + 0.5mhz CPU clock + multiplexed PIA cannot handle lamps without latching nature of SCRs.

#9 7 years ago

EMS

emsrph

Pinside member

12y 75,300 1,353 1

A kit would be cool. Following

#10 7 years ago

DOG

Whysnow

Pinside member

12y 187K 35,339 30 1

full list of games this is compatible in?

#11 7 years ago

MWY

myork82

Pinside member

Bowling Green, KY

11y 47,300 686 1

Very nice man!

#12 7 years ago

F X

Coyote

Pinside member

9y 107K 8,988

Quoted from Whysnow:
full list of games this is compatible in?

At LEAST all the games here:
http://ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mpu=34
AND here:
http://ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mpu=18

I'm in for one now, and looking forward to v2 of it, from a developer's standpoint!

#13 7 years ago

CHD

Cheddar

Received and installed this in Vector last night. Works great. Andrew even burnt the home roms with newer rules for me.

Great work on these!

#14 7 years ago

MJO

arcademojo

Pinside member

10y 131K 5,513 30

Need to try one of these soon.

4

#15 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Hey everyone. I am sold out at the moment. China is on Spring Festival and the board house I use is closed for a week or so. Once they open back up I will have lots more MPUs produced.

Things I am adding in the next design version

Test button on the MPU (thanks Coyote for idea).
Improved pierce oscillator circuit. Adding the Rs resistor for 2mhz crystals so they are not driven as hard. Had trouble with one brand of 2mhz crystals. Improved the PCB layout for less parastic resistance and noise.
More test pads for important signals like VUA+E, Ext clock, interrupts generators.
Some general PCB layout improvements.
Silk screen layer touch ups with more info.

I also have a finished a new design for the Bally -51 sound board. I will be ordering prototypes for those as well. The -50 sound board and/or classic stern sound boards after that.

Andrew

#16 7 years ago

MIK

mikep28

Pinside member

Fort Branch, IN

8y 27,900 49 21

Finally an era Bally sound board replacement. -50 boards are hard to find working anymore and problematic as crap. Love the cheaper MPU option too. After tom Callahan stop making his board @$150 each I was just paying $200 for alltek

#17 7 years ago

RCP

SkyKing2301

Rocket City Pinball

8y 110K 2,661 1

You said -17 too, as in AS-2518-17? I've about given up on my MPU in my Bobby Orr Power Play -- too much corrosion around the battery region that I haven't been able to fully eliminate -- so I'm in the market for a replacement. $50 less than an Ultimate MPU definitely has my attention...

#18 7 years ago

---

ForceFlow

9y 238K 31,369 268 14

Quoted from SkyKing2301:
You said -17 too, as in AS-2518-17?

Yes.

4

#19 7 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,268 18

Being able to run aftermarket software like freeplay ROMs for classic Stern or Vector10 is a nice improvement over Alltek.

Layout looks super uncorroded in the lower left corner, might take some getting used to.

#20 7 years ago

RCP

SkyKing2301

Rocket City Pinball

8y 110K 2,661 1

Quoted from vid1900:
Layout looks super uncorroded in the lower left corner, might take some getting used to.

I will have that problem for sure!!!

#21 7 years ago

EDE

Ericpinballfan

Mod Magic!

8y 166K 10,435 7 1

When will the next batch be ready??
I would like one please.
Thanks Eric

4

#22 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

I just got notice the board house working on my PCBs. I estimate about 5-10days until more MPUs are ready.

Also ordered -51 sound boards and Rectifier boards at the same time. Hopefully i got the layout right on the first try for those.

#23 7 years ago

JAY

jay

Pinside member

Santa Ana, CA

13y 59,050 791 6 68

Are you still considering offering kits for these?

Also, If I might ask a question about your layout, I'm curious why you've chosen discreet resistors/caps instead of arrays. Seems like arrays would dramatically reduce parts count and assembly time considering the large numbers of same value parts used in this board design.

It's great to see a replacement Bally MPU that can run custom ROMs. So thanks for putting this together.

#24 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Quoted from jay:
Are you still considering offering kits for these?
Also, If I might ask a question about your layout, I'm curious why you've chosen discreet resistors/caps instead of arrays. Seems like arrays would dramatically reduce parts count and assembly time considering the large numbers of same value parts used in this board design.
It's great to see a replacement Bally MPU that can run custom ROMs. So thanks for putting this together.

I chose to be very similar to the original bally design, so discreet components is where I began. Part numbers are the same except new parts(minimal amount) are typically in the x200 range.

Now that I know the schematic i created is valid, I can start playing around with the design layout. There is a surface mount version and a dip layout in the works that breaks from the original bally feel that will use arrays and networks and parts rearranged to make the PCB size smaller. It is a lot easier to route the board with the CPU in the middle and the PIAs more to the ouside closer to the plugs.

Did anyone ever make signal diode arrays? Nearly 50 1n4148 used on the MPU.

I still plan on selling just the PCBs so people can assemble the board themselves. Might offer a package where you get the CPU, PIAs, and NVRAM plus the board, but its still up in the air.

Something like the Bally rectifier I am sure would make a good DIY kit. The MPU, maybe less so.

#25 7 years ago

JAY

jay

Pinside member

Santa Ana, CA

13y 59,050 791 6 68

Seems like a basic signal diode array would be pretty straightforward but this was all I could find... LOL
ebay.com link: DIODE ARRAY DS09CC 1N4148 4 ITEM COMMON CATHODE

#26 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

OP
Quoted from barakandl:
I still plan on selling just the PCBs so people can assemble the board themselves. Might offer a package where you get the CPU, PIAs, and NVRAM plus the board, but its still up in the air.

Any idea what they'll cost once they're done? A nice evening soldering sounds much better than an evening cleaning corrosion off boards if the price is low enough. Wouldn't even need some of the parts since I can just scavenge them off the old board.

OP
Quoted from barakandl:I chose to be very similar to the original bally design, so discreet components is where I began. Part numbers are the same except new parts(minimal amount) are typically in the x200 range.

Now that I know the schematic i created is valid, I can start playing around with the design layout.

It'd be cool to have a through hole version where you can drop in single resistors and caps or an array, just add an extra hole on the end of one end of a row of caps tied to the other side of them all?

#27 7 years ago

E

DK

Pinball Naples

12y 155K 4,879 129 3

Shoot me a PM when you have your next batch in. I'm down for 2 of the MPUs!

#28 7 years ago

GPE

G-P-E

GPE

Omaha, NE

13y 76,800 2,778 4

Quick suggestion -- change the disc caps to mono-caps with pre-formed leads. They are easier to find, they cost less, they're better quality... and most importantly, they are far easier to install.
Disc caps are kinda a pain in the butt to install and you have to actually somewhat hold them in place to keep them level and not falling into soldering area. A preformed cap such as Kemet C322C103K1R5TA - insert it till it fits flush and solder in place.

Although you can find them anywhere -- take a look at an example here:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCM-0.01uF-100V

Kemet has different lead spacing available - just pull up their data sheet and find the one that matches your existing lead spacing. Don't go to 0.1" spacing in the future, though ... that size is also a pain in the butt to install.

Ed

8

#29 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

MPUs are starting to ship. Right now the demand is greater than rate I can assemble them so I have a list going. If you want one and haven't heard from me in last few days, please contact me.

Once the initial rush finishes, they will be a common stocked item.

-51 sound and rectifier boards are in real game prototype testing. LDB with led support, -50 sound, and Addams family HPB with fuses proto PCBs have been ordered. Sb100 sound board in recreation design phase.

Thank you
Andrew

20170221_225635 (resized).jpg

#30 7 years ago

CHD

Cheddar

Any chance you'll kick any out as a kit?

#31 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Quoted from Cheddar:
Any chance you'll kick any out as a kit?

Sort of. I am working with a china supplier to bag up all the passives needed. It might not work out / make sense.

I can sell the blank PCB and provide a BOM (basically a -35 MPU) for the hobbyist that wants to assemble it themselves.

#32 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

OP
Quoted from barakandl:
Sort of. I am working with a china supplier to bag up all the passives needed. It might not work out / make sense.
I can sell the blank PCB and provide a BOM (basically a -35 MPU) for the hobbyist that wants to assemble it themselves.

Any idea what the cost would be roughly?

#33 7 years ago

MVJ

shimoda

Pinside member

11y 75,150 3,651 8 24

Meant to ask, but are there any hard to find chips here like the two clock chips on the original?

2

#34 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

By using the 6802 CPU, the 9602 chip and lots of support passives has been eliminated. The 9602 is the hardest to find on the original board. The 6802 also eliminates the need for a 6810 ram. I am still using a 7437 in the clock phase 2 / vua area, but I may be able to get away with a more common 74HCT00 since I am not buffering for the 9602. There is a really stiff 150 ohm pull up tho... I need to do some theory and calculations before i try and change to a 74hct00

Chips used.
6802 (Original bally design used 6800)
6821(x2)
FM16(w)08 or a 6264 nvram adapter module
7437
74HCT00
4502
4011
4049 (x2)
555

Other new components.
2mhz (or 2.048) crystal (bally speed)
3.58mhz crystal (mpu200)

Everything else is new pretty standard passives. Not very many new parts. All parts reused from the original bally design have the same component number. New parts are in the x200 range. So C201 would be a new part not used on the bally MPU.

I also recommend a 33k resistor at r21 for the display interrupt (speeds it up slightly to avoid display flicker). Also recommend 0.1uF bypass caps. I will try and get the BOM posted today.

I already got an email from PPS Rick, so I have to be careful about Bally EPROMs. I am adapting a strategy like BG Resto uses. I can burn ROMs if I have a set or originals to erase/destroy/reburn. The good thing is I literally have hundreds of original MPUs too corroded to fix that I have salvaged ROMs off of. Some games like Paragon, I have ten sets. Rolling Stones I have no sets.

So I can provide ROMs for some games if I have the originals on hand. If I don't have originals to reuse for you, I can send you blank ROMs to program yourself. You can send me your originals to be destroyed/erased and I will reburn you new ROMs. Or you can use a service like John Wart provides to get PPS licensed ROMs.

Andrew

#35 7 years ago

CHD

Cheddar

OP
Quoted from barakandl:
I already got an email from PPS Rick, so I have to be careful about Bally EPROMs. I am adapting a strategy like BG Resto uses. I can burn ROMs if I have a set or originals to erase/destroy/reburn. The good thing is I literally have hundreds of original MPUs too corroded to fix that I have salvaged ROMs off of. Some games like Paragon, I have ten sets. Rolling Stones I have no sets.
So I can provide ROMs for some games if I have the originals on hand. If I don't have originals to reuse for you, I can send you blank ROMs to program yourself.

Andrew I have a bunch of old roms too. I'll figure out what they are and send you a list to see if you need any of them.

#36 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

You have any good source for the 6802s?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-10pcs-lot-MC6802P-MC6802-Microprocessor-With-Clock-and-Oprtional-RAM-DIP40-Best-quality/32679140333.html

#37 7 years ago

ABH

acebathound

Pinitech

12y 89,050 2,585

Quoted from zacaj:
You have any good source for the 6802s?

funkward-tech on eBay is what a lot of pinball people seem to use for old chips (6821 PIAs, old cpus, etc). If you're buying in bulk you'll get the best prices from any of those sellers, you usually have to contact them directly.

Aliexpress is another source.. looks like about $1.50ea if buying 10x or more there. Of course the usual should be assumed -- remarked recycled chips and possibility of counterfeit from any eBay/Aliexpress/HK/China sellers. In reality though, enough of the time nowadays it's the same thing you're buying from pinball distributors or people selling the chips.. they're just doing the importing for you and making a few bucks for their efforts.

Here's a 6802 from Aliexpress that's "Best Quality" so you know it's good All joking aside, typically it's best to look for anything with reviews there and just buy what got good reviews.

#38 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Quoted from Cheddar:
Andrew I have a bunch of old roms too. I'll figure out what they are and send you a list to see if you need any of them.

Rick told me I can't reuse old ROMs. I need to do some research on that fact. I am pretty sure If I own hundreds of Bally MPUs with ROMs on them, I can pluck those ROMs off and use them in a new board, but I am not the legal expert. I really don't want to work with Rick, but I might have to or not provide ROMs.

Everyone should get your own EPROM burner. The GQ-4X is great. China still makes new 2732 EPROMs and they go for a buck or less.

#39 7 years ago

MVJ

shimoda

Pinside member

11y 75,150 3,651 8 24

Rick may be on flaky ground there, particularly as they come from MPUs.

#40 7 years ago

MMT

Xerico

Rockwall, TX

11y 148K 3,604 14

barakandl , if I buy this board, and I have the game ROMs, is it simply a matter of swapping ROMs to make the board compatible with another game?

Is that how I would use custom coded ROMs?

Thanks for providing this alternative to Altek

Marcus

#41 7 years ago

ABH

acebathound

Pinitech

12y 89,050 2,585

Why not just sell them without the eproms or work the deal with Rick and add it into the costs / final price? Even if licensing amounted to $5-10 per set of chips, it's not much in the grand scheme of things when material costs are probably $25-35 for this or the Alltek MPU and the market bears a $200 price-point. To be fair, that includes ability to make distributor deals at 40-50% off retail... allows for PCB assembly options or makes it worthwhile to hand-assemble a large number of components. But the point is, it's something that can sell in volume, so the licensing costs become insignificant. What you're trying to skirt around with the eproms sounds like it's just going to set you up for future headaches. IMHO let the buyer decide if they want to buy licensed roms from you or someone else, or burn their own. Simple as that.

#42 7 years ago

CJN

Joey_N

Pinside member

Madison, AL

11y 31,900 277 1

I'm assembling 2 of the Bally -35 repro PCBs that are found on Ebay..pretty much exact copy of the original PCB.

Curious how much you'd sell the bare board for?

#43 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Quoted from acebathound:
Why not just sell them without the eproms or work the deal with Rick and add it into the costs / final price? Even if licensing amounted to $5-10 per set of chips, it's not much in the grand scheme of things when material costs are probably $25-35 for this or the Alltek MPU and the market bears a $200 price-point. To be fair, that includes ability to make distributor deals at 40-50% off retail... allows for PCB assembly options or makes it worthwhile to hand-assemble a large number of components. But the point is, it's something that can sell in volume, so the licensing costs become insignificant. What you're trying to skirt around with the eproms sounds like it's just going to set you up for future headaches. IMHO let the buyer decide if they want to buy licensed roms from you or someone else, or burn their own. Simple as that.

Ace,

That is probably a good idea. I had an issue where Rick rubbed me the wrong way, but i guess i can try and get over it and work with him.

I can keep the same price point and if the customer needs ROMs, they will pay the licensing fee.

Quoted from acebathound:
funkward-tech on eBay is what a lot of pinball people seem to use for old chips (6821 PIAs, old cpus, etc). If you're buying in bulk you'll get the best prices from any of those sellers, you usually have to contact them directly.
Aliexpress is another source.. looks like about $1.50ea if buying 10x or more there. Of course the usual should be assumed -- remarked recycled chips and possibility of counterfeit from any eBay/Aliexpress/HK/China sellers. In reality though, enough of the time nowadays it's the same thing you're buying from pinball distributors or people selling the chips.. they're just doing the importing for you and making a few bucks for their efforts.
Here's a 6802 from Aliexpress that's "Best Quality" so you know it's good All joking aside, typically it's best to look for anything with reviews there and just buy what got good reviews.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-10pcs-lot-MC6802P-MC6802-Microprocessor-With-Clock-and-Oprtional-RAM-DIP40-Best-quality/32679140333.html

You are pretty safe buying 6802 and 6821s from China. Funkward has been around for a long time and generally people get good working parts. Expect a 10% failure rate, specially on the PIAs. Cpus are more reliable.

Quoted from Xerico:
barakandl , if I buy this board, and I have the game ROMs, is it simply a matter of swapping ROMs to make the board compatible with another game?
Is that how I would use custom coded ROMs?
Thanks for providing this alternative to Altek
Marcus

Marcus,

My board is forced to use 2732s at U2 and U6. If you have ROMs burned on 2732s at u2 and u6, they will work fine. 2732 is the most common setup people use with burned EPROMs. What John Wart Jr. supplies by default.

Quoted from Joey_N:
I'm assembling 2 of the Bally -35 repro PCBs that are found on Ebay..pretty much exact copy of the original PCB.
Curious how much you'd sell the bare board for?

I am thinking $30, but it could change up or down. Part cost should be less than $50 (much less if you a smart shopper. A skilled person at soldering should take about 2.5 hours to assemble. Maybe more if you are not familiar with the bally board component layout.

#44 7 years ago

F X

Coyote

Pinside member

9y 107K 8,988

I can burn ROMs - unofficially - if anyone needs.

#45 7 years ago

CHD

Cheddar

Quoted from Coyote:
I can burn ROMs - unofficially - if anyone needs.

Same but on the west coast

#46 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

Any chance you could add an alternate unpopulated rom socket for a single 2764 or something similar? esp one that has a compatible EEPROM. (not aware of an EEPROM that'll work for 2732s...)

#47 7 years ago

CJN

Joey_N

Pinside member

Madison, AL

11y 31,900 277 1

Thanks. I will likely buy a board in the near future! OK, here's another question..

I am going to need a Stern 100 type MPU for a Dracula.

I can't find any good info for converting a -35 into a Stern 100, so have nearly given up on building a 'new' MPU for it.

Would it be possible for me to build your PCB up in such a way as to use it in Dracula?

#48 7 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Quoted from Joey_N:
Thanks. I will likely buy a board in the near future! OK, here's another question..
I am going to need a Stern 100 type MPU for a Dracula.
I can't find any good info for converting a -35 into a Stern 100, so have nearly given up on building a 'new' MPU for it.
Would it be possible for me to build your PCB up in such a way as to use it in Dracula?

Hi Joey,

When the board is in Bally Mode, it will work just fine in Stern MPU100 game.

The ROMS would be setup on 2732s at U2 and U6. That means the original 2kb ROMs would be doubled up to 4kb images.

copy /b MPU100-U6.716 +MPU100-U6.716 MPU100-U6.732

Quoted from zacaj:
Any chance you could add an alternate unpopulated rom socket for a single 2764 or something similar? esp one that has a compatible EEPROM. (not aware of an EEPROM that'll work for 2732s...)

Yes, something like this is going to get worked on.

11

#49 7 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,268 18

I've got many hundreds of genuine Bally EPROMs I can send you free, for every game.

Then you can legally include them so there is no question of any BS.