(Topic ID: 236554)

New BackGlasses added at CPR

By CPR

5 years ago


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  • 421 posts
  • 141 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by J67ab
  • Topic is favorited by 29 Pinsiders

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#148 4 years ago
Quoted from semicolin:

I think it's the depth/darkness of the colour that is doing it. In a poorly lit environment without backlighting it would be easy to mistake for dark blue. The moment the lights are on it pops. It's the only colour in those areas so it's definitely not a layering artifact.
Backbox lighting layout so you can see there's no funny business:[quoted image]
Original backlit with ambient light:[quoted image]
CPR backlit with ambient light:[quoted image]
Original frontlit detail on black surface:[quoted image]
CPR frontlit detail on black surface:[quoted image]
Additional original detail:[quoted image]
Additional CPR detail:[quoted image]
Original mask to show no touchups:[quoted image]
CPR mask:[quoted image]
Side by side outside you can really see it: take a look at where the meteor is hitting the earth. [quoted image]

Thanks for pointing out the differences, I never saw the green even on my own pin just never looked I guess. Kind of sucks it isn't there but I did just receive my Backglass and it looks amazing. I can't wait for the playfields to be ready to get a set with new plastics and do a complete restore on my game.

#165 4 years ago
Quoted from CPR:

So I had Kevin and Stu check last night and ours is definitely blue, no hint of green. It came from an NOS glass that I think we got from PAPA but I may be mistaken on that. Rather than start trying to approximate yours without any real guidance other than images on a monitor we had better leave it like it is. The three of us have had this argument more than once, but we have to make a reproduction of an actual physical object and trying to make a Frankenstein to satisfy everyone will just lead to a product that is correct to no ones. As Coyote mentioned this was a completely different version from yours from the very outset so it was never going to match. Sorry
Mike

Simple fix on your website put "Meteor Backglass Blue Version"

Like is said I never even noticed the green nor will I because once the playfields are ready my game will be getting a full restore and the old glass will get put up as wall art. My repro still looks amazing compared to the flaking one I have now.

How long till the playfields are ready?

#170 4 years ago
Quoted from KevinCPR:

Guys,
I haven't been logged into Pinside since well before our vacation weeks which started March 14. But since our internal talks last night going over this backglass, I'm going to pop by for a minute and provide some more info:
While we do use NOS glasses often, and Mike alluded that he believed this Meteor one was as well ... IT WAS NOT. We started with a donor's production glass that came out of a working production game. It wasn't even a 'perfect' glass (as you'll see below). But it was very passable and workable to get what we needed.
So the green mystery... "where did the green go on CPR's glass". I'm here to show you. It was never there.
Just to show we're not making this up, or fumbling around 'seeing colors wrong' or any of the other theories... Stu went back on the server and dug up the original, raw Cruze scan that was done at the graphics studio in Arizona that we always use. These guys are meticulous archival scanner techs, and considering it's a $500,000 fine art scanner - they have to be.
Since the actual scan is a gigantic uncompressed TIF, I've done a simple resizing to a 1000px JPG image, posted below.
- the first post is the raw scan as it comes off the Cruze. Many would say "ewww its so dark"... but there are ranges of color information in there beyond what your eye can see. A Cruze scanner doesn't need to overexpose or overlight. It's CCD sensor sensitivity is beyond even the best DSLR cameras. Look at the color bars they lay on the table. Everything is photo lab balanced and calibrated. Looking 'dark' means nothing in technical terms, all the color data is there.
- the second post is the same image, but I've pulled up the gamma and midrange levels a bit, so you can see the "colors to the eye" of what it would look like in a normally lit situation (outside the scanner, shot with a camera).
No, this glass did not have CREDIT in the window. No, this glass does not have a white blob on the planet beneath the credit window. No, this glass does not have green capsules on the rockets, they are navy blue. The bodies of the rockets are based on blues, not greens. There are no greens in the giant meteor either. They are the deep royal blues.
So that is the origin story of this glass. While it's obviously the most common to have these green-based ones, as reported here in retrospect, this too was a Meteor glass put into a production game. Not NOS. Not a cast-aside oddball/error glass from the parts room. Since the artwork master for the press is 95% the master TIFF image from the Cruze (except for some redraws of score windows, etc), this is not as simple as grabbing spots and turning them green. We'd need a whole new Cruze scan of another Meteor glass of the other color variety. Starting from scratch. That is why after a few dozen sold and shipped, and it quieting down to basically everyone who wanted one, got one... we're on the fence of taking a complete overhaul on these at this late stage.
IMHO the green is BUTT UGLY. I know, only my opinion. But when I came in here to see the pictures, my first reaction was "ewwww, yuck, seriously?" Looked like green LEDs were being used behind the glass, as some kind of amateur mod attempt. Meteor has that classic blue/purple/black Stern color scheme (like Flight 2000). There is no green in the Meteor pallate anywhere. Makes no sense to me. I think the version we got is WAYYY better of a matching look to the game. But hey, that's just me. I know it may seem biased, but I'm dead serious. Blue all the way. If it were my game, darn tootin'
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Boom! Mic Drop

I'm on Team Blue also

Now when's the playfield going to be ready

#201 4 years ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

What's the problem ?

I need more beer and help sanding my Meteor down. I'm just waiting for the playfields to be ready it's going to look Awesome with my New Blue Version back glass.

1 month later
#265 4 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

Just got CPR AFM and MM mirrored BG.
They are too dark.
Oh well.

Out of the machines or in them?

#268 4 years ago
Quoted from CPR:

I personally don't think our backglasses are too dark. I spoke to Kevin and Stu about this and I'll get to that in a second. From my experience with these new glasses I see that at least in my own pins that I swapped glasses into, my old translites were faded a bit and the blacks were never black to begin with. Translites have no blocking layers so the light passes uniformly through them making the blacks not even close to black when back lit. That's the biggest difference I see. In my case I absolutely love the glasses as one of my translites was faded a lot more than I realized. I guess the biggest issue you will have is that we always try to use an NOS sample and then color match to that sample, which will not have faded much so that will almost certainly be darker than your existing translite anyway.
Kevin figures a lot of the issue is that on a translite there can be no black and now blacks are black, not 80% grey.
Stu's take is more technical but I've added that too;
People are comparing our Printed Backglasses to the Original Translite BEHIND Glass.
I can Not properly "color correct" the scans comparing it to the artwork Behind Glass.
I have to color correct to the Actual translite ( No Glass ).
When looking at a Translite Behind Glass it is very "diffused" and lightens up by 18-20%!
Blacks on a Translite are, like Kevin mentioned, are about 80-85% Grey, not Black.
I happen to have right now 2 different F-14 Translites here in my studio, 1 is NOS and the other is Used.
So I did a little exercise and placed the Used one WITH Glass on top of the NOS version WITHOUT Glass and photographed
them together. HUGE Difference in what you see in the photograph! Now every camera is different as is every lighting
situation, so a customers comparison will be different, however, Take a look at the differences in this photo....
1: Oranges in the "Explosion" are very rich in Color & Tonal Value on the "Translite NO Glass" compared to the one With Glass.
2: Look at the differences in the Deep Blues ( Bottom Right ).
3: Look at the Orange in the Plane ( Upper Right Corner ).
4: Look at the F-14 Logo RED Colors
4: Here's the best one: Look at the Black Explosion Clouds ( specifically the Lower 1 by the Plane's Wing ).
A Translite Behind Glass will Never look the same as a translite Without Glass ( which is what I have to color correct to ).
People also NEED to Understand that we are NOT Working From The ORIGINAL ARTWORK like the originals were made from.
There will Always be some differences, but we do the best we can, and we are always trying to improve our techniques.
Our Backglasses (since they are Printed) will always appear Richer in Tonal Value than a Translite. Our Backglasses look
more like a Translite that is Not Behind Glass ( the True Artwork ) because that's what I have to Color Correct to.
So I guess the long and short is that they will never look exactly like your old translite.... but that's really the idea. Adding mirroring and attempting to restore the original unfaded and saturated look of a brand new original translite makes them into something more than just a copy of a translite and a lot more than just a copy of some old faded one.
Mike[quoted image][quoted image]

Great explanation. Different LED's are going to also change the way it looks, i keep all 3 white types from Comet and experiment with them to see what looks best when I do my back boxes.
I'll be ordering one soon for my Totan and I hope F14 gets done because that is my next restore as soon as my repro playfield comes in. Keep up the great work.

#277 4 years ago
Quoted from Cherries_Jubilee:

no idea of where that artwork came from as it is not listed on any of the CPR Artists bio's. it's possible that the reproduction artwork was borrowed from someone else and that cpr was never made aware of any discrepancies. also note: there were at least 4 different backglass manufactures all doing the same titles all from different artwork, so it is possible that both versions are correct.
does anybody out there know the true background story of this glass?

The images from the Flight 2000 Gallery don't have all the extra detail and look more like the CPR repro after doing a quick look at those images.

Screenshot_2019-06-24-12-20-35 (resized).pngScreenshot_2019-06-24-12-20-35 (resized).png
#294 4 years ago

I for one, if you have not been able to tell Love all the Repro stuff. Shiny and new looks amazing to me. It's really hard to find NOS stuff now so trying to do a restore on a pin now with just NOS parts is really hard to do.
I'm almost done with a Totan restore with tons of new parts and a CPR playfield, plastics and it will get a new mirrored backglass also.
I also can't understand all the complaints and of such minor differences. I have one of the now Blue version Meteor backglasses and that looks 1 Million (insert Dr Evel meme here) times better than my orginal, when those Playfields are ready that will get restored. I got an F14 Playfield coming soon and already have my CPR plastics and if that Mirrored F14 backglass gets made I'll take one also slap it in and not even look at my old translite again except for maybe when I throw it up on the wall as art.
Pinball machine prices have gone through the roof so for us unless it's a super deal I'm not even looking for other pins I'm just focusing on restoration of our current pins and am Grateful to all the repro guys making parts to actually be able to do nice restores with New parts.
Cheers

1 month later
#303 4 years ago

Is F14 still in the works?

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