(Topic ID: 236554)

New BackGlasses added at CPR


By CPR

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 302 posts
  • 111 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 days ago by ita47
  • Topic is favorited by 30 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 121 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

60B4E830-A00F-4EBC-A8E6-DC61F0C1516B (resized).jpeg
pinbot (resized).jpg
88414F5D-E96F-4DE1-8DC5-1177321DF6FF (resized).jpeg
IMG_6555.JPG
CC4832C7-6F35-44AF-80D4-DCE45B81D261.gif
Screenshot_2019-06-24-12-20-35 (resized).png
TZcomps (resized).jpg
20190624_110715 (resized).jpg
20190624_110819 (resized).jpg
F-14 Translites (resized).jpg
TZ Translite vs Glass (resized).jpg
F3F57C05-9E54-43E6-9A18-63421583765F (resized).jpeg
2C184917-91A1-4260-A57D-F766CE5D44A7 (resized).jpeg
15F64BE9-CA57-4A34-A41F-F1F9EC79483E (resized).jpeg
38E7EAB7-F440-42CF-9F7F-148C88550766 (resized).jpeg
2E253D8D-F934-4D23-B4DC-33B8D09E7A81 (resized).jpeg

There are 302 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
#251 55 days ago

So I got both the TZ and TAF in , TZ trim fit perfectly, the addams family does not fit on the bottom lift trim. The lift trim from my translite cracked and split apart trying to wrap around obviously thicker cpr glass. I've tried lift trim from other William's bally machines I own and the same issue of thickness happens. What are you using to fix this those who have it already? And where are you getting the trim from?

#252 55 days ago
Quoted from pballjunkie:

So I got both the TZ and TAF in , TZ trim fit perfectly, the addams family does not fit on the bottom lift trim. The lift trim from my translite cracked and split apart trying to wrap around obviously thicker cpr glass. I've tried lift trim from other William's bally machines I own and the same issue of thickness happens. What are you using to fix this those who have it already? And where are you getting the trim from?

I had the same problem w/ my TAF backglass.

I went with this....
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MC-03-8229

You'll need to get some 3m friction tape as well
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-3-4-in-x-20-ft-Friction-Tape-Black-3407NA-BA-6/202192876

#253 55 days ago
Quoted from pballjunkie:

So I got both the TZ and TAF in , TZ trim fit perfectly, the addams family does not fit on the bottom lift trim. The lift trim from my translite cracked and split apart trying to wrap around obviously thicker cpr glass. I've tried lift trim from other William's bally machines I own and the same issue of thickness happens. What are you using to fix this those who have it already? And where are you getting the trim from?

I had zero trouble with my TAF. My AFMrLE took come coaxing, but thankfully nothing broke.

#255 55 days ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Any plans to do a Harlem Globetrotters backglass?

Second and third this request. Mine and many others are flaking paint. Would love to be able to replace mine and would do it in a heartbeat

#256 55 days ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

Dann Frank had at least 3 of the 4 variations of the Bad Cats Backglass. Not sure if he still does.
I forget all the variations but did personally see 3 distinct glasses in person about 9 years ago or so
Differences were the game title mirrored, in solid black and in orange/black stripes.
At least 1 of them had the roof tiles and brick outlines printed on the front rather than a light effect from behind.
Then there is the snake head instead of Python's head.
Some of these can be seen on the flyer.
I don't recall seeing the rumored condom by the garbage can.

I have seen the condom one in person. It really is hilarious!

#257 55 days ago

Anyone know if there are plans for a Stars Backglass?

#258 54 days ago

Frontier?

15F64BE9-CA57-4A34-A41F-F1F9EC79483E (resized).jpeg2C184917-91A1-4260-A57D-F766CE5D44A7 (resized).jpegF3F57C05-9E54-43E6-9A18-63421583765F (resized).jpeg
#259 52 days ago

Guys;

Here's a short list of glasses we are currently screening the mirroring for. These are the ones we have complete artwork for as of now, although Stu tells me he has 5 more almost ready to go. I'll post them when I know the titles. But in the mean time these are the glasses coming over the next few weeks.

1. Attack From Mars - Already available
2. Bram Stoker's Dracula
3. XXXXXX - cking licencing
4. Congo
5. Fish Tales
6. JackBot
7. XXXXXX - cking licencing
8. Party Zone
9. Radical
10. Rocky & Bullwinkle
11. Scared Stiff
12. Skee Ball - Not technically Pinball - But I needed one for my own game so Stu helped me out.
13. Superman
14. ToTAN - Already available
15. World Cup Soccer
16. De Star Trek
17. Earthshaker
18. Guns N' Roses
19. DE Star Wars
20. Harlem Globetrotters

Mike

#260 52 days ago
Quoted from CPR:

3. XXXXXX - cking licencing
7. XXXXXX - cking licencing

Looking forward to Funhouse (w/ mirror mask please!)

#261 52 days ago

Looking forward to seeing Scared Stiff. I will more than likely be a buyer!

1 week later
#262 42 days ago

Will whirlwind get redone with the mirroring? It's been sold out a while?

Quoted from CPR:

Guys;
Here's a short list of glasses we are currently screening the mirroring for. These are the ones we have complete artwork for as of now, although Stu tells me he has 5 more almost ready to go. I'll post them when I know the titles. But in the mean time these are the glasses coming over the next few weeks.
1. Attack From Mars - Already available
2. Bram Stoker's Dracula
3. XXXXXX - cking licencing
4. Congo
5. Fish Tales
6. JackBot
7. XXXXXX - cking licencing
8. Party Zone
9. Radical
10. Rocky & Bullwinkle
11. Scared Stiff
12. Skee Ball - Not technically Pinball - But I needed one for my own game so Stu helped me out.
13. Superman
14. ToTAN - Already available
15. World Cup Soccer
16. De Star Trek
17. Earthshaker
18. Guns N' Roses
19. DE Star Wars
20. Harlem Globetrotters
Mike

2 weeks later
#263 28 days ago
Quoted from ptolemy:

Someone wanted to see the translite and the backglass so here you go. [quoted image][quoted image]

Digging this up from a while ago.. to my eyes it looks like the colours on the translite are deeper than on the CPR one? In particular you can see the roof of the car and the stained glass windows appear richer on the translite than the CPR one. And this is from a guy who has both so is using the same camera, same environment, etc. Which one is "right" ? Do I need to get my eyes tested?

#264 28 days ago

Just got CPR AFM and MM mirrored BG.
They are too dark.
Oh well.

#265 26 days ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

Just got CPR AFM and MM mirrored BG.
They are too dark.
Oh well.

Out of the machines or in them?

#266 26 days ago
Quoted from BertoDRINK1:

Out of the machines or in them?

In the machine with the lights on.

10
#267 22 days ago

I personally don't think our backglasses are too dark. I spoke to Kevin and Stu about this and I'll get to that in a second. From my experience with these new glasses I see that at least in my own pins that I swapped glasses into, my old translites were faded a bit and the blacks were never black to begin with. Translites have no blocking layers so the light passes uniformly through them making the blacks not even close to black when back lit. That's the biggest difference I see. In my case I absolutely love the glasses as one of my translites was faded a lot more than I realized. I guess the biggest issue you will have is that we always try to use an NOS sample and then color match to that sample, which will not have faded much so that will almost certainly be darker than your existing translite anyway.

Kevin figures a lot of the issue is that on a translite there can be no black and now blacks are black, not 80% grey.

Stu's take is more technical but I've added that too;

People are comparing our Printed Backglasses to the Original Translite BEHIND Glass.
I can Not properly "color correct" the scans comparing it to the artwork Behind Glass.
I have to color correct to the Actual translite ( No Glass ).

When looking at a Translite Behind Glass it is very "diffused" and lightens up by 18-20%!
Blacks on a Translite are, like Kevin mentioned, are about 80-85% Grey, not Black.

I happen to have right now 2 different F-14 Translites here in my studio, 1 is NOS and the other is Used.
So I did a little exercise and placed the Used one WITH Glass on top of the NOS version WITHOUT Glass and photographed
them together. HUGE Difference in what you see in the photograph! Now every camera is different as is every lighting
situation, so a customers comparison will be different, however, Take a look at the differences in this photo....

1: Oranges in the "Explosion" are very rich in Color & Tonal Value on the "Translite NO Glass" compared to the one With Glass.
2: Look at the differences in the Deep Blues ( Bottom Right ).
3: Look at the Orange in the Plane ( Upper Right Corner ).
4: Look at the F-14 Logo RED Colors
4: Here's the best one: Look at the Black Explosion Clouds ( specifically the Lower 1 by the Plane's Wing ).

A Translite Behind Glass will Never look the same as a translite Without Glass ( which is what I have to color correct to ).
People also NEED to Understand that we are NOT Working From The ORIGINAL ARTWORK like the originals were made from.
There will Always be some differences, but we do the best we can, and we are always trying to improve our techniques.

Our Backglasses (since they are Printed) will always appear Richer in Tonal Value than a Translite. Our Backglasses look
more like a Translite that is Not Behind Glass ( the True Artwork ) because that's what I have to Color Correct to.

So I guess the long and short is that they will never look exactly like your old translite.... but that's really the idea. Adding mirroring and attempting to restore the original unfaded and saturated look of a brand new original translite makes them into something more than just a copy of a translite and a lot more than just a copy of some old faded one.

Mike

F-14 Translites (resized).jpgTZ Translite vs Glass (resized).jpg
#268 22 days ago
Quoted from CPR:

I personally don't think our backglasses are too dark. I spoke to Kevin and Stu about this and I'll get to that in a second. From my experience with these new glasses I see that at least in my own pins that I swapped glasses into, my old translites were faded a bit and the blacks were never black to begin with. Translites have no blocking layers so the light passes uniformly through them making the blacks not even close to black when back lit. That's the biggest difference I see. In my case I absolutely love the glasses as one of my translites was faded a lot more than I realized. I guess the biggest issue you will have is that we always try to use an NOS sample and then color match to that sample, which will not have faded much so that will almost certainly be darker than your existing translite anyway.
Kevin figures a lot of the issue is that on a translite there can be no black and now blacks are black, not 80% grey.
Stu's take is more technical but I've added that too;
People are comparing our Printed Backglasses to the Original Translite BEHIND Glass.
I can Not properly "color correct" the scans comparing it to the artwork Behind Glass.
I have to color correct to the Actual translite ( No Glass ).
When looking at a Translite Behind Glass it is very "diffused" and lightens up by 18-20%!
Blacks on a Translite are, like Kevin mentioned, are about 80-85% Grey, not Black.
I happen to have right now 2 different F-14 Translites here in my studio, 1 is NOS and the other is Used.
So I did a little exercise and placed the Used one WITH Glass on top of the NOS version WITHOUT Glass and photographed
them together. HUGE Difference in what you see in the photograph! Now every camera is different as is every lighting
situation, so a customers comparison will be different, however, Take a look at the differences in this photo....
1: Oranges in the "Explosion" are very rich in Color & Tonal Value on the "Translite NO Glass" compared to the one With Glass.
2: Look at the differences in the Deep Blues ( Bottom Right ).
3: Look at the Orange in the Plane ( Upper Right Corner ).
4: Look at the F-14 Logo RED Colors
4: Here's the best one: Look at the Black Explosion Clouds ( specifically the Lower 1 by the Plane's Wing ).
A Translite Behind Glass will Never look the same as a translite Without Glass ( which is what I have to color correct to ).
People also NEED to Understand that we are NOT Working From The ORIGINAL ARTWORK like the originals were made from.
There will Always be some differences, but we do the best we can, and we are always trying to improve our techniques.
Our Backglasses (since they are Printed) will always appear Richer in Tonal Value than a Translite. Our Backglasses look
more like a Translite that is Not Behind Glass ( the True Artwork ) because that's what I have to Color Correct to.
So I guess the long and short is that they will never look exactly like your old translite.... but that's really the idea. Adding mirroring and attempting to restore the original unfaded and saturated look of a brand new original translite makes them into something more than just a copy of a translite and a lot more than just a copy of some old faded one.
Mike[quoted image][quoted image]

Great explanation. Different LED's are going to also change the way it looks, i keep all 3 white types from Comet and experiment with them to see what looks best when I do my back boxes.
I'll be ordering one soon for my Totan and I hope F14 gets done because that is my next restore as soon as my repro playfield comes in. Keep up the great work.

#269 22 days ago

What about issues like this?
Look at the black detail on the face, hair, dress and right arm.

20190624_110715 (resized).jpg20190624_110819 (resized).jpg
#270 22 days ago

I have the mirrored ba kglass on my TZ and AFM. I like the look of it better with the mirrored. It has a richer deeper look to it.

#271 22 days ago
Quoted from Mitch:

What about issues like this?
Look at the black detail on the face, hair, dress and right arm.

what is this from? I don't see anything on CPR's site in backglasses or plastics that has this imagery.......

#272 22 days ago
Quoted from Cherries_Jubilee:

what is this from? I don't see anything on CPR's site in backglasses or plastics that has this imagery.......

Flight 2000 backglass

#273 22 days ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Flight 2000 backglass

no idea of where that artwork came from as it is not listed on any of the CPR Artists bio's. it's possible that the reproduction artwork was borrowed from someone else and that cpr was never made aware of any discrepancies. also note: there were at least 4 different backglass manufactures all doing the same titles all from different artwork, so it is possible that both versions are correct.
does anybody out there know the true background story of this glass?

#274 22 days ago
Quoted from Cherries_Jubilee:

there were at least 4 different backglass manufactures all doing the same titles all from different artwork,

Who are the other 3? Trying to find a replacement for a machine and I only knew of cpr for this? website links?

#275 22 days ago

Mike @ CPR:

Thanks for that explanation. I had wondered myself if what people were seeing in terms of "darker" new glasses wasn't just the result of un-noticed original fading, or translate diffusion, and likewise. Everything you said made sense.

Yet if I can be more subjective for a moment, I'm not sure "darker" is always "better". In your F14 example, I would agree, the darker one looks AWESOME and is far richer in the areas that matter, even if some detail seems lost. But that Twilight Zone example you posted, I would argue the opposite is true:

TZcomps (resized).jpg

Does being lit make a big difference and if so, can you post that because - and this is speaking as myself - I would choose the one on the left every single time. Why? Well on the CPR one, you can barely make out the curio shop name. The details near the gumball machine are all lost in shadow. Where is the piano? And so on. While I agree that the richness of the blacks and the contrast of the blues are improved and very nice to behold, the resultant apparent loss of detail makes the overall glass a negative in my opinion. But that's TZ... the F14 glass didn't have as many fun details to get lost in or look for so, same process makes a better result. Subjectively, of course.

But I'm still curious if those TZ details reappear when lit...

#276 22 days ago

Not really comparable but I bought a repro FH translite that was noticeably bluer than the original, and when it was backlit it looked completely different.

I've got a TZ and TAF one coming and have decent translites already (I'm a sucker for shiny things) so I should be able to get some decent side by side photos/videos.

#277 22 days ago
Quoted from Cherries_Jubilee:

no idea of where that artwork came from as it is not listed on any of the CPR Artists bio's. it's possible that the reproduction artwork was borrowed from someone else and that cpr was never made aware of any discrepancies. also note: there were at least 4 different backglass manufactures all doing the same titles all from different artwork, so it is possible that both versions are correct.
does anybody out there know the true background story of this glass?

The images from the Flight 2000 Gallery don't have all the extra detail and look more like the CPR repro after doing a quick look at those images.

Screenshot_2019-06-24-12-20-35 (resized).png
#278 22 days ago
Quoted from EdHess:

Who are the other 3? Trying to find a replacement for a machine and I only knew of cpr for this? website links?

I believe he was referring to original backglass manufacturers "back in the day," not current-day repro manufacturers.

#279 22 days ago

I thought I read CPR was investing in a boatload of new equipment and was going to a new business model. So they could produce previous issued products on more of a need/demand, instead of batch runs ??

#280 22 days ago
Quoted from thelazybman:

I thought I read CPR was investing in a boatload of new equipment and was going to a new business model. So they could produce previous issued products on more of a need/demand, instead of batch runs ??

they did, and now all backglasses and plastics are being done digitally, with the exception of the mirroring on backglasses - that is still being done via silkscreened as it can't be done digitally.

#281 22 days ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Thanks for that explanation. I had wondered myself if what people were seeing in terms of "darker" new glasses wasn't just the result of un-noticed original fading, or translate diffusion, and likewise. ... But I'm still curious if those TZ details reappear when lit...

On my TZ, the backglass is much darker. So I'm planning to increase the brightness of LEDs used in the backbox. If that works well, I'll report back.

#282 22 days ago

I suggest the 4+1 SMD TOWER 6.3V AC/DC MAXIMUM BRIGHTNESS natural white from comet pinball. These things make the most yellow.look white and darkest to light.

#283 22 days ago
Quoted from Cherries_Jubilee:

they did, and now all backglasses and plastics are being done digitally, with the exception of the mirroring on backglasses - that is still being done via silkscreened as it can't be done digitally.

how about playfields? any chance of previous runs being made as needed

#284 22 days ago

Gottlieb Circus BG remake would be killer!

#285 22 days ago

I have CPR BG on TAF and AFMrLE -- DEFINITELY not too dark! They're a marked improvement, IMO.

18
#286 21 days ago

These backglasses from CPR are wonderful. Can we nitpick to death? Sure. But thanks to Kevin, Stu and the gang, we HAVE backglasses in our pins now. Even titles that never had them to begin with. My pins look dramatically better on AND off now.

Great job CPR!

CC4832C7-6F35-44AF-80D4-DCE45B81D261.gif
#287 21 days ago
Quoted from underlord:

These backglasses from CPR are wonderful. Can we nitpick to death? Sure. But thanks to Kevin, Stu and the gang, we HAVE backglasses in our pins now. Even titles that never had them to begin with. My pins look dramatically better on AND off now.
Great job CPR![quoted image]

The best part is that these buyers sell their nice originals. So for people like me that want them, they are easier to find.

#288 21 days ago
Quoted from lordloss:

The best part is that these buyers sell their nice originals. So for people like me that want them, they are easier to find.

Would anybody like to buy my original Mata Hari backglass? My new CPR is on the left and my original is on the right in case you can't tell the difference.

IMG_6555.JPG
#289 21 days ago

That’s funny Mathazar, but good point. Most of us had crap before CPR started making us affordable stuff.

#290 21 days ago

My Flash Gordon looks awesome.

88414F5D-E96F-4DE1-8DC5-1177321DF6FF (resized).jpeg
#291 21 days ago

Can someone post a original Afm translite and a new afm backglass installed. Im still on the fence.

#292 21 days ago

My Pinbot CPR glass - looks 100 times better than the translite that came off! Have a new CPR Fireball Classic Glass with red that is not faded to orange. Great job CPR, keep it up! (need an Eight Ball )

pinbot (resized).jpg
#293 21 days ago
Quoted from shovelhed:

Can someone post a original Afm translite and a new afm backglass installed. Im still on the fence.

Already done a month ago, found on Page 5 of this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-backglasses-added-at-cpr/page/5#post-5005584

While I'm here, popping in for a moment, I'd also say it's amazing reading the various subjective interpretations of our Translite-To-Backglass products. Most guys are blown away, but some are meh. I do understand the memory/visual retention in some folks just can't/won't let go of the older/aged look. Something about seeing extended dynamic range (the full original translite artwork) on glass, is tricking some eyes... even believing that details are hidden or lost. Nope. Every single detail from the original translite artwork is there. Except now it's in its proper context.

Remember, just because blacks and shadow areas have washed out on the old paper prints, doesn't mean there is "more detail"... it just means that blacks and shadow areas have a maximum depth of around 80% black (rather than true 95-100%) so details are perceived more "visible"... but that is only because the shadows are now technically blown out. Just like on any photo editor today, one can certainly take the Shadows slider, and slide it up to blow out your blacks... yes, you'll make some stuff in the shadows slightly easier to see, but you'll be ruining the overall dynamic range of your photo. The black levels will be made poorer, as the darkest spots in your photo will be ~80% grey ... not approaching black anymore.

I get it though. I'm a home theater buff. Believe it or not, there are still people in the home audio/video community who spit on OLED / QLED / HDR televisions and monitors... and pine for the days of old traditional LED panels with 500-1 contrast ratio... for the very same reasons. They subjectively prefer the more film-faded washed look of their fave movies, and don't like the production companies going back to remaster from the original negatives, and restoring the dynamic range, regardless of the "superior" presentation quality of today's displays. They don't want 'technically' superior or 'technically' improved. They want what they REMEMBER. So I get it. 'Better' can be very very personal and subjective.

#294 21 days ago

I for one, if you have not been able to tell Love all the Repro stuff. Shiny and new looks amazing to me. It's really hard to find NOS stuff now so trying to do a restore on a pin now with just NOS parts is really hard to do.
I'm almost done with a Totan restore with tons of new parts and a CPR playfield, plastics and it will get a new mirrored backglass also.
I also can't understand all the complaints and of such minor differences. I have one of the now Blue version Meteor backglasses and that looks 1 Million (insert Dr Evel meme here) times better than my orginal, when those Playfields are ready that will get restored. I got an F14 Playfield coming soon and already have my CPR plastics and if that Mirrored F14 backglass gets made I'll take one also slap it in and not even look at my old translite again except for maybe when I throw it up on the wall as art.
Pinball machine prices have gone through the roof so for us unless it's a super deal I'm not even looking for other pins I'm just focusing on restoration of our current pins and am Grateful to all the repro guys making parts to actually be able to do nice restores with New parts.
Cheers

#295 21 days ago

We are fortunate to have suppliers for these parts. Just a few years ago you were SOL if you bought a game with a bad glass or blown out playfield. Sure there have been misses (Sunburned Flash Gordon comes to mind and Paragon) but corrections have/are being made. It certainly beats peeling, flaking or no backglass/playfield at all!

#296 21 days ago

Hoping you guys can run Frontier soon as I’m wrapping up playfield and waiting on the cabinet. Hope I can pop a sweet new backglass into it as well.

60B4E830-A00F-4EBC-A8E6-DC61F0C1516B (resized).jpeg
#297 21 days ago

Second on Frontier. I need one too.

#298 21 days ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

Looking forward to Funhouse (w/ mirror mask please!)

Me to, would also like to see a T2 with mirroring, both would look amazing!

1 week later
#299 14 days ago
Quoted from Kingpin22:

Me to, would also like to see a T2 with mirroring, both would look amazing!

I'd be all over a T2 for my 3rd mirrored CPR backglass!!

#300 13 days ago

CPR Bride of pinbot back glass available.
Prefer local pick up . Pm for details

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 7.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
There are 302 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside