Northern California, CA
Quoted from jackal2001:I personally have never bought a piece of PDI glass because I don't want to spend $300 on glass.
Well I guarantee you are not alone on this one because I would never spend $300 on glass either.
(Topic ID: 10809)
Quoted from Phoog:pinball repair expert
Without a name I tend to not give that much value.
Quoted from NimblePin:oleophobic
WOW Nimble, I had to go look that one up!
Adj. 1. oleophobic - lacking affinity for oils
oleophilic - having a strong affinity for oils rather than water
It could be interesting, looking forward to test results.
On another note Phoog, could you move this to the selling forum? I feel it is a better place since you are directing us to your site to purchase your product.
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:jackal2001 said:I personally have never bought a piece of PDI glass because I don't want to spend $300 on glass.
Well I guarantee you are not alone on this one because I would never spend $300 on glass either.
That's too bad, because you are both truly missing out on the best mod that you can possibly do to a pin.
Seriously.
Quoted from absocountry2:On another note Phoog, could you move this to the selling forum? I feel it is a better place since you are directing us to your site to purchase your product.
You are absolutely correct. I just moved it.
Quoted from RobT:That's too bad, because you are both truly missing out on the best mod that you can possibly do to a pin.
Seriously.
That seems to be the consensus with everyone that has this glass. I'm interested in getting some, but I'd like to see it in person first.
Price aside, the PDI glass is phenomenal. I have it on two of my machines, and it makes a HUGE difference. If someone comes out with an option that is half the price and 90% as effective, I'm sold.
Quoted from gweempose:Price aside, the PDI glass is phenomenal. I have it on two of my machines, and it makes a HUGE difference. If someone comes out with an option that is half the price and 90% as effective, I'm sold.
That sounds pretty much like what I expect the JJP product to be. Which is why I'm waiting.
Dreieich
I received a few glass samples today and my plan is to make a small vid (maybe tomorrow) where I
compare regular pinball glass and PDI glass (which is green) with the samples.
In addition to that I'll compare how low-lead-low-iron-glass looks like, it's called
Optiwhite (sounds like a toothpaste) over here and Borofloat which is clearer than
Optiwhite. Furthermore some of those samples have single layer anti glare coatings (not so resistant against scratches). Please note that the coating isn't a film on the glass. PDI has 3 layers
on each side. It's a firm bond or merge between the glass substrate and the coating.
I hope that the vid will help to reduce speculations.
Quoted from Honch:StevenP said:That's not a grammar issue. This discussion is already beyond you. [
]
Back OT, I too would like to see more comparisons. Some indication of any differences in noise level would also be cool.I was referring to your special little comment on moot vs mute. Besides, last time I checked semantics were a part of grammar. Maybe this discussion is beyond you professor.
The universal connotation of "grammar police" is syntactical in nature, and not semantic. And your GP comment was made in direct response to my science/trade remark. Retroactively claiming a disjointed retort, are we? 
P.S. I'm not a professor (anymore). And if I were the Grammar Police, I would have commented on your lack of commas--but I didn't. 
Quoted from StevenP:Retroactively claiming a disjointed retort, are we? [
Syntax this!!!! Great, now I have to proof read everything I posts. 
Thanks alot Steven. 
Quoted from Honch:BTW, where did you see that JJP was going to produce the non-reflective glass for individual sale?
Good question. I know he mentioned that the price will come down on the B/W parts. Some of the stuff that has not been produced is getting produced again. If I remember correctly he mentioned widebody lockdown bars. They have been out a while and he is producing them now so they should cost a lot less.
He also mentioned coils as an example. They cost more in smaller runs like we have been using so now that he is getting 5,000 coils for the 1,000 LE pins alone they will be able to make them cheaper. It would take us as collectors a while to use that many coils, even as a group.
And if I were the Grammar Police, I would have commented on your lack of commas--but I didn't.
*sigh*
You should also never start a sentence with "And" or "But"... 
I also would have used a semicolon in place of your ", and", bit of banter.
Now can we get back to Pinball?
Seriously Steven...
Quoted from Honch:BTW, where did you see that JJP was going to produce the non-reflective glass for individual sale?
He mentioned it here (nearly at the end)
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=DE#/watch?v=9ZsJnwKl4A0
Quoted from Phoog:Here is a look at the difference. Also I am not using Optiwhite glass. I have gotten a good laugh at the skeptics. But anyway, I'm glad people are talking about it.
Attachments product2.jpg (26.4 KB, 0 downloads) 17 minutes old
A side by side comparison on a game would be nice, so everybody could see the difference.
Something like this for instance (regular glass left, PDI on the right, daylight from left side)
http://www.networkbrokers.de/2%20faces.jpg
Quoted from MagicJumpi:A side by side comparison on a game would be nice, so everybody could see the difference.
Something like this for instance (regular glass left, PDI on the right, daylight from left side)
http://www.networkbrokers.de/2%20faces.jpg
That is an incredible photo. That's exactly what I want. 
FWIW, I took a whole bunch of before and after photos of my TZ when I first installed the PDI glass. In the end, I didn't bother posting any of them, because I realized that the photos didn't really do the product justice. You have to see it with your own eyes to fully appreciate the effect it has on the playfield.
Quoted from NimblePin:You should also never start a sentence with "And" or "But"...
My view is that the normal rules of grammar don't necessarily apply in a forum setting. We are typing to one another in a conversational style. The whole point of an online forum is to mimic talking to each other. Therefore, I find it perfectly acceptable to write things that would really piss of my 8th grade English teacher. But of course, I could be wrong. And I'm fully aware of this ...
Quoted from SealClubber:How noticeable are the bevels? Since they are near the edge, probably not but I have to ask.
very noticeable. The bevels are 1" and only a quarter inch goes in the rail. I just measured mine to make sure and 3/4" of bevel is exposed
Quoted from gweempose:My view is that the normal rules of grammar don't necessarily apply in a forum setting. We are typing to one another in a conversational style. The whole point of an online forum is to mimic talking to each other. Therefore, I find it perfectly acceptable to write things that would really piss of my 8th grade English teacher. But of course, I could be wrong. And I'm fully aware of this ... [
Not in school here! and I sound more like a Hillbilly in person! 
Quoted from NimblePin:"Sometimes I have to cuss just to prove my damn point..." [8)]
NP yee spelt damned rong
FWIW, 'PDI' glass doesn't cost anything close to $300 to manufacture. Joey, who imports the non-glare glass is definitely in it to make a profit. I'm sure everyone that has looked at the other merchandise on his site would agree.
The problem with the pricetag associated with imported, non-glare glass is one of too many hands in the pie.
As I understand it, it's made by company A, in modest quantities, for a very great guy and fellow pinhead named Roman, who in turn deals with the shipping and transfer to Joey at PDI.
Roman does this part-time at most. In other words, this isn't his day-job. Nevertheless, he's entitled to make a buck for his efforts. Then Joey gets his share, and the next thing you know... bam! A $300 product.
A couple years ago I was fortunate enough to get a sheet directly from Roman who hand-carried two pieces to Expo to show it off. My cost was $180. Now, see my point?
The glass being discussed here doesn't have the anti-glare treatment. IMHO, that's the goal to chase after. In bright light the coating really makes a noticeable difference. In low-light, you don't even see the glass. I appreciate that the clarity of New and Amazing is a strong selling point. It's probably wonderful for display cases located in stores with overhead lighting, but pinball machines and the game rooms they live in aren't necessarily similar to WalMart in terms of their lighting. Hence, I feel like there's still room for improvement.
Quoted from mrbillishere:I appreciate that the clarity of New and Amazing is a strong selling point. It's probably wonderful for display cases located in stores with overhead lighting, but pinball machines and the game rooms they live in aren't necessarily similar to WalMart in terms of their lighting. Hence, I feel like there's still room for improvement.
sounds like you're making a premature judgement. All I know is the glass I put on my two pins looks a million times better than the standard thin, ugly, green glass.
Quoted from Phoog:skooter710 said:Those were the worst pictures ever to sell a cool product. Take some better ones or hire somebody to take some comparision photos EKKK.
I'm glad you think it's a cool product and thanks for the constructive criticism. I like the part where you said those were the worst pictures ever. (note to self: charge this guy extra)
I am just being honest here sorry don't charge me extra LOL But if it is as cool as you describe it to be then you can make a shit ton of cash. And i looked again and those pictures still suck
Scott
Quoted from gweempose:I just looked at the pictures, and I'm shocked by how wide the bevel is. Do people really like to see the bevel encroaching on their playfield?
I like the bevel to show a lot. It doesn't affect the play at all. The beauty of it all is I can do a smaller bevel if you like and you still get the 1/4" glass. The bevel is just added beauty in my opinion.
Quoted from Phoog:The beauty of it all is I can do a smaller bevel if you like and you still get the 1/4" glass.
That would definitely make Pinheads more comfortable with your product. I agree with Gweem, it (the bevel) would just look out of place on a pinball machine. Maybe on that 'Richie Rich' custom pin, the bevel sticking out would fit the theme.
I must say the clarity on the FT picture is pretty impressive. If I had a routed machine that needed a new piece of glass I would give your product a shot.
Good luck Phoog.
Quoted from NimblePin:Good luck Phoog.
Thanks. Don't be scared of the bevel. It's not too much bling for a pinball machine
Quoted from skooter710:those pictures still suck
Did you check out pinballglass.com and see the new front page picture?
Quoted from Phoog:hassanchop said:and how about noise reduction? does it make a difference? or you barely notice it?
it is definately noticeable
can you give me a number? like a % of what you feel like is reduced?
Quoted from Phoog:standard glass on the right and Bob's Ultimate in on the left.
Attachments WP_000589.jpg (367.2 KB, 0 downloads) 9 hours old
Seems to me that based on this image that you actually placed the "standard" playfield glass on TOP of the other piece. That is hardly a fair comparison to shoot the standard glass through 2 pieces of glass in order to make yours look better. Reminds me of the infomercials where the girl in the "before" picture looks like shit and has a sad face but in the after she is all made up and smiling. I know you say you are a poor photographer but that is just a b.s. excuse when you are marketing an item like this. It's not rocket science to take a few decent pictures. Also that bevel is enormous and IMO would look absolutely ridiculous on a game. It looks like an 80's coffee table. I can understand why you like it. You want to sell it at $150 a pop.
I have also looked into alternatives to the glass that PDI sells and have learned quite a bit about it. This type of glass only comes in 1/4 inch along with thicknesses that are much too thin and not 3/16 which is why the large bevel is required. I had been given this option as well when talking to the manufacturers and passed due to it being unacceptable. 5mm which is what the German glass measures is close enough to 3/16 to work even though it's a bit thick but no one in the USA makes glass in that size that is useful for this purpose. It would have to be custom made. There are basically zero options for anti-glare glass in 3/16 unless it is plate glass (Water White for ex.) which is unacceptable especially from a liability standpoint.
I wish you the best of luck in your ventures but please be truthful when marketing and take pictures that do not deceive customers.
Naturally I'm very critic and I start with myself.
I try to be as fair and as objective as possible, but it seems that we have reached
a point where physical laws are void.
I learned in school (some maybe not) about light refraction (See pic)
I can see one glass, but I can't see Bob's Ultimate ?!
Please explain to us, where the edges are and where the bevels ?
I can see only one edge refracted in the picture (note the metal guides),
but where I'm missing the other one ?
Maybe a video would help to bring light into the dark and where you bend
over the machine, like in this vid
,
so interested people can see the difference you are talking about.
Showing the glass from the side is not the way how this glass should be compared
and it's not how it is used in the game.
When installed, you don't see any green color.
Quoted from MagicJumpi:I can see one glass, but I can't see Bob's Ultimate ?!
Please explain to us, where the edges are and where the bevels ?
That was already explained above....The standard glass is sitting on top of the 'good' glass. So you only see the edge of the standard glass, as the edges of the 'good' glass are out of the picture. Still not a good comparison as it was noted, you're looking through two sheets of glass on the right.
Thanks for all your efforts MagicJumpi and Phoog to continue contributing to the hobby!!!
I look forward to seeing some nice independent tests.
And yeah PDI has great products but those prices.... ayayay...
Quoted from RobT:The_Dude_Abides said:jackal2001 said:I personally have never bought a piece of PDI glass because I don't want to spend $300 on glass.
Well I guarantee you are not alone on this one because I would never spend $300 on glass either.
That's too bad, because you are both truly missing out on the best mod that you can possibly do to a pin.
Seriously.
I admit it looks fantastic, I just can't justify spending that much money on glass. If it was $100/sheet I would buy it for my pins. Until that price point is reached, I won't be buying any and I'm not going to buy some knock-off clear glass that isn't green. I want something that is non-glare.
Quoted from Kevin_LHeureux:I have also looked into alternatives to the glass that PDI sells and have learned quite a bit about it. This type of glass only comes in 1/4 inch along with thicknesses that are much too thin and not 3/16 which is why the large bevel is required. I had been given this option as well when talking to the manufacturers and passed due to it being unacceptable. 5mm which is what the German glass measures is close enough to 3/16 to work even though it's a bit thick but no one in the USA makes glass in that size that is useful for this purpose. It would have to be custom made. There are basically zero options for anti-glare glass in 3/16 unless it is plate glass (Water White for ex.) which is unacceptable especially from a liability standpoint.
I wish you the best of luck in your ventures but please be truthful when marketing and take pictures that do not deceive customers.
you are way off base here. And you really don't know much about glass. I'm licensed, bonded and insured with a C65 license so that puts me a little ahead of you jack. Just because some idiot salesman at a glass company tells you something to make you go away doesnt make it true. Anyway I only posted the comparison picture with the standard glass on top of the new glass because that was the example I was shown in the PDI comparison. You are kind of insulting so I will make a note that you can't have any. For any price. What a tool.
Quoted from hassanchop:can you give me a number? like a % of what you feel like is reduced?
I would guess about 10%. But I better do a scientific study or I might come across as dishonest. I'll get you that price today. Thanks for your interest.
Quoted from Kevin_LHeureux:This type of glass only comes in 1/4 inch along with thicknesses that are much too thin and not 3/16 which is why the large bevel is required
It does come in 3/16 by the way. I can do it in 3/16 without the bevel. I personally think the thicker glass is so much nicer. It adds a certain depth to the look of the playfield and the beveled edges are just an added extra feature. If you don't like the bevels I can reduce them as I've said or I can get you a piece of 3/16 for less money. Thinner glass without the step of beveling saves a lot of the work. Everyone has there preferences. That is why my website states custom is available. Just not to you.
Quoted from MagicJumpi:I can see one glass, but I can't see Bob's Ultimate ?!
pretty amazing isn't it?
Quoted from Phoog:You are kind of insulting so I will make a note that you can't have any. For any price. What a tool.
I think this is enough to make me decide that this will probably not be a company I will want to deal with. To post this kind of a childish reaction to someone's honest concerns about how they perceive your plug is surprising, and quite honestly, very unprofessional.
Trying to plug a new product on a forum is fine, but you should be aware that you have left yourself open to criticism by choosing to do so. It is an OPEN forum, people are free to express their opinions.
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