(Topic ID: 223912)

New Allied Leisure MPU

By daddy

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 32 days ago by pookycade
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    There are 636 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 13.
    #601 82 days ago
    Quoted from engreystar:

    Have you tried printing them in nylon? The actuation and resistance with and without a ball hit would potentially be different and put more stress on the mid point but also I'm not sure about how ABS will handle the hits over time with this kind of movement and the aluminum resistance impact on the connection point would also wear it faster or warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I usually do impact testing on the replacements I make. Being 2 different materials might actually be detrimental to its long term use with that impact transfer. Nylon absorbs a bit more impact and is also more resistant to breakage, shrinking, and warping than ABS. The price is quite high for an ABS part tbh and at that price I'd want to know it's going to last.

    I have not tried Nylon. These are very solid pieces that have shown zero wear or cracking or warping in over 100 games plays on the 2 machines I have them being tested in. I went with the metal rod instead of a solid single piece print because of the potential for the plastic pin shearing off due to orientation of the print layer that was chosen to give the greatest strength to the lever arm. Originally tried stainless steel dowels (as seen in the first prints in the pictures) but did not like the weight increase. With steel the power loss due to the weight difference was negligible with cold flipper coils but would show an approx 15-20% power loss when the coils got hot after long play sessions. Switching to 6061 aluminum dowels more closely matched the original weight of the part and I don't see any power difference compared to the original parts after long play sessions. I didn't think $40 a pair for these manufactured parts is a high price. The much costlier alternative in the past has been to swap out both flipper assemblies to a matching pair of Gottlieb or other manufacturers parts and end up with a wider ball gap because no one else's flipper bats are as long as the ALI bats.

    Another potential design improvement would be to print the arm above the dowel as well with a cut out for the flipper link so that the pin is supported on both sides, but that would require a two part print that would need to be glued together and also the pin would have to be installed after fitting the plunger link into place.

    Former Industrial/Manufacturing Engineer before starting my full-time pinball repair company.

    #602 82 days ago

    As an experiment I took a 4 lb sledge hammer to one of the printed parts. Numerous blows of increasing strength to the top and bottom of the part against the print direction resulted in no deformation. Turning it sideways and hitting it numerous times caused some white stress marks at the corners of the joints and no cracking. Finally I started hammering down on the arm itself and after quite a few blows the arm around the pins started to deform and caused some splitting in the print layers and eventually some cracking across the print direction but did not allow any separation of the parts around the pin. Now this isn't exactly the same as the direction of the deformation would be caused by internal forces rocking the pin back and forth but I think is a pretty good indicator of the toughness of the part. This is printed at a 0.12mm thickness with top and bottom layer counts at 10 and the wall counts at 6, so the majority of the part is at 100% infill.

    IMG_4041 (resized).JPGIMG_4041 (resized).JPGIMG_4042 (resized).JPGIMG_4042 (resized).JPG
    #603 82 days ago
    Quoted from kbliznick:

    Former Industrial/Manufacturing Engineer before starting my full-time pinball repair company.

    Good detail to put on your profile I just thought you were a general pinball repair person.

    Quoted from kbliznick:

    As an experiment I took a 4 lb sledge hammer to one of the printed parts.

    I see you've put it through some paces but my concern was more the torsion impact with how the movement and hit at the stop puts all the force on one very small part at the top of the piece. ALI flippers are an odd design. Obviously it would take a while but I have seen 3D printed ABS get brittle over time. I'm sure you know what you're doing, just wanted to add my inconsistent experience with printed parts in pins.

    I only do 3D printing for prototypes now, I do casting for finished products. I've had so many 3D prints fail in the weirdest/dumbest ways especially just over a year or two. It's not that I don't trust people or their designs, I really don't trust 3D printing on mechanical parts after numerous failures of even the best looking prints. Too many factors can make a 3D print bad. I wouldn't call it so much manufacturing as it's more rapid prototyping that people accept as a finished product. It's obviously better than a non-working pin. I've been casting all of my reproduction replacements so I know they'll last a good 10+ years.

    Making a replacement available to keep these alive is always good. Especially if you actually deliver the product unlike some people we're all angry at.

    #604 81 days ago
    Quoted from engreystar:

    I see you've put it through some paces but my concern was more the torsion impact with how the movement and hit at the stop puts all the force on one very small part at the top of the piece.

    I see what you are asking now. That was my biggest concern with the design as that still sits in a shear direction with print layers. That bump stop is only used on 1 side in 1 direction. When activated he plunger hits the coil stop and the bump stop doesn't actually come into contact with the flipper bushing. The bump stop does come into contact with the bushing when the flipper drops back to the rest position with just the force of the return spring. Luckily this game doesn't have any Jagoff kicker coils firing pinballs directly at the flippers while in the resting position. On the first sizing test print with PLA the bump stop sheared off immediately because the coarse print settings with no infill wasn't designed to resist it. I then printed it in the correct settings and adjustments for ABS with the idea that I was going to add a gluable insert into the bump stop that is printed in a perpendicular direction to strengthen the bump stop, but saw from the testing that it is holding up fine without the printed insert. I'll change to that if it presents a problem long term.

    Really annoyed with the way ALI designed it using that bump stop instead of a full return stop bracket like all other mechs. I have seen stock ALI units with the bump stop missing and it was fixed by putting a screw (or in the case of 1 picture on pinside) a drill bit into the bottom of the playfield to create a return stop. There's even a slot in the flipper bracket that lines up with what looks like the planned location for some sort of return stop that was never created. Bally linear flipper return stops would probably screw right in.

    10 years ago when I saw people trying to print and sell drop targets out of printed PLA I knew then that some of these designs wouldn't work. I installed a customer purchased lite up clear drop target on a Stern Star Trek and watched it snap in half in 4 hits. but the printers and material have progressed quite a bit since them.

    How would one go about casting this in solid plastic?
    return stop (resized).pngreturn stop (resized).png

    #605 81 days ago
    Quoted from kbliznick:

    I see what you are asking now. That was my biggest concern with the design as that still sits in a shear direction with print layers. That bump stop is only used on 1 side in 1 direction. When activated he plunger hits the coil stop and the bump stop doesn't actually come into contact with the flipper bushing. The bump stop does come into contact with the bushing when the flipper drops back to the rest position with just the force of the return spring. Luckily this game doesn't have any Jagoff kicker coils firing pinballs directly at the flippers while in the resting position. On the first sizing test print with PLA the bump stop sheared off immediately because the coarse print settings with no infill wasn't designed to resist it. I then printed it in the correct settings and adjustments for ABS with the idea that I was going to add a gluable insert into the bump stop that is printed in a perpendicular direction to strengthen the bump stop, but saw from the testing that it is holding up fine without the printed insert. I'll change to that if it presents a problem long term.
    Really annoyed with the way ALI designed it using that bump stop instead of a full return stop bracket like all other mechs. I have seen stock ALI units with the bump stop missing and it was fixed by putting a screw (or in the case of 1 picture on pinside) a drill bit into the bottom of the playfield to create a return stop. There's even a slot in the flipper bracket that lines up with what looks like the planned location for some sort of return stop that was never created. Bally linear flipper return stops would probably screw right in.
    10 years ago when I saw people trying to print and sell drop targets out of printed PLA I knew then that some of these designs wouldn't work. I installed a customer purchased lite up clear drop target on a Stern Star Trek and watched it snap in half in 4 hits. but the printers and material have progressed quite a bit since them.
    How would one go about casting this in solid plastic?
    [quoted image]

    I don't think you would need to cast it. With probably some minimal design changes you might be able to CNC it and then it could be solid aluminum. Cheap CNC is provided by JLCPCB now. https://jlc3dp.com/cnc-machining Check it out

    #606 81 days ago
    Quoted from kbliznick:

    How would one go about casting this in solid plastic?
    [quoted image]

    With a 2 part mold you could keep the holes but you could partial fill the holes with a thin layer and then punch or drill them out after casting. You could use thin tape when you go to mold the part or fill the hole with a really thin layer of resin or clay as long as it seals up the hole but is thin enough you can just push it out after casting. Watch some Robert Tolone videos on youtube and you'll know a lot about how to cast complicated parts.

    If it's the right thickness Smooth-On Task 4 is extremely strong at very thin castings but it has a max thickness limit. I used it on a couple pinball parts. You can also mix in fibers to make it even stronger or add to the design with wedges in the L if its placement allows to add to the strength if it's prone to break at a seam. Molding and casting is a lot of trial and error and a little eaten cost at first but once you have a good process down it's really easy to churn them out. There's resin for color accuracy and performance, high strength, impact resistance, even flame resistance if you need a non-warping part that regularly gets really hot over a lamp.

    There's a lot of failures though if you're doing something like my little project to replicate 1940s Gottlieb injection molded parts without an injection mold. Making marbling with poured molds is incredibly unpredictable, but the products always came out pretty good. Doing small parts is pretty cheap even if you make a few mistakes. I managed to replicate all of the parts on my Lady Robin Hood but I wasted a lot to get there. Casting is something that is cheaper the more you make. If you want a truly 1 to 1 replacement for something not made anymore molding is the way to go. You can match up the flexibility, strength, weight, and torsion if you know the source material and probably improve on it. It's just a lot more work. Especially if the material needs pressure casting, heat curing, or vacuuming. You also need moisture control, a respirator, venting, it's a whole thing. But you can make some real nice stuff that looks like it rolled out of a professional manufacturing facility.

    #607 74 days ago

    Has this been designated by the moderators as an official scam yet? I think that is precisely what it boils down to. Azure Oz has shrank into the shadows never to be seen again. I don't want him to sell his snake oil anywhere else. Came in like a lion until he got paid and paypal dispute time passed and little to nothing after that and went out like a lamb. Deliberate deception and nothing more.

    #608 72 days ago

    Several more PMs to this guy. We might as well be sending messages into a black hole.

    #609 72 days ago
    Quoted from mamawaldee:

    Several more PMs to this guy. We might as well be sending messages into a black hole.

    Here's a new black hole for you.

    Hit him where it hurts.

    https://au.linkedin.com/company/azure-productions

    https://www.facebook.com/azureproductions/

    They are coming for you John Frank and you reap what you sow.

    1 week later
    #610 61 days ago
    Quoted from rstrunks:

    Has this been designated by the moderators as an official scam yet? I think that is precisely what it boils down to. Azure Oz has shrank into the shadows never to be seen again. I don't want him to sell his snake oil anywhere else. Came in like a lion until he got paid and paypal dispute time passed and little to nothing after that and went out like a lamb. Deliberate deception and nothing more.

    Yep. In the absence of any response whatsoever from the guy, complete and total scam. Needs to be labeled by pinside as such.

    #611 61 days ago

    Should we start another thread about actually fixing/upgrading, and modding these games?
    I' would hate for information that would help the rest of us, to intrude on the continual complaining about john, and what he has or hasn't done?

    I recently acquired 4 more cocktails. I now have a total of 4 allied (3 eros1, a Circa 1930) and 2 of the allied "subcontract" Viza games called War.
    Apparently the company knew they were stealing licensed art and formed a daughter company to pop out these head to head games.
    It has frank frazetta barbarian art on it, (very bad pixelated copy) and were never given permission to use it.
    There were 2 versions of the build, one with saucer holes (rarer), and one without. Both I bought have the saucers, 8 flippers, 2 pops, and slings on both ends.

    Talked to a few people about board repairs, replacements, etc, and I've got a lead on a couple guys who are working on both.
    I'll share these as they become confirmed, or if it just fizzles, I'll move on.
    We also have the option of www.flippers.com in Canada (John Robertson) who has repaired boards in stock with upgraded chip assemblies that aren't prone to the static wipe the originals were bad about. He has many parts, and upgrades as well.

    After I finish my current 2 projects, my jekyll & Hyde homebrew, and my Bally Supersonic 2.0, I'll start working on the GI upgrade to LED conversion for these games, and adding perimeter (stadium lighting) around the outside edges to brighten these dark, old games up.
    A friend and myself who do MPF programming, have talked about doing a conversion kit as well with cobrapin CPUs to possibly offer a kit to make the code deeper, and allow more options for these old cocktails. That is still up in the air, and a ways off.

    Would be cool to see these games have some depth, cool light shows, and better gameplay.
    That's all for now, and have a great weekend everyone.

    20240210_114505 (resized).jpg20240210_114505 (resized).jpg20240210_114517 (resized).jpg20240210_114517 (resized).jpgreceived_5714228015296348 (resized).jpegreceived_5714228015296348 (resized).jpeg
    #612 61 days ago
    Quoted from MrBigg:

    There were 2 versions of the build, one with saucer holes (rarer), and one without. Both I bought have the saucers, 8 flippers, 2 pops, and slings on both ends.

    *Also an EM version of the game.

    #613 61 days ago
    Quoted from MrBigg:

    Should we start another thread about actually fixing/upgrading, and modding these games?
    I' would hate for information that would help the rest of us, to intrude on the continual complaining about john, and what he has or hasn't done?
    I recently acquired 4 more cocktails. I now have a total of 4 allied (3 eros1, a Circa 1930) and 2 of the allied "subcontract" Viza games called War.
    Apparently the company knew they were stealing licensed art and formed a daughter company to pop out these head to head games.
    It has frank frazetta barbarian art on it, (very bad pixelated copy) and were never given permission to use it.
    There were 2 versions of the build, one with saucer holes (rarer), and one without. Both I bought have the saucers, 8 flippers, 2 pops, and slings on both ends.
    Talked to a few people about board repairs, replacements, etc, and I've got a lead on a couple guys who are working on both.
    I'll share these as they become confirmed, or if it just fizzles, I'll move on.
    We also have the option of www.flippers.com in Canada (John Robertson) who has repaired boards in stock with upgraded chip assemblies that aren't prone to the static wipe the originals were bad about. He has many parts, and upgrades as well.
    After I finish my current 2 projects, my jekyll & Hyde homebrew, and my Bally Supersonic 2.0, I'll start working on the GI upgrade to LED conversion for these games, and adding perimeter (stadium lighting) around the outside edges to brighten these dark, old games up.
    A friend and myself who do MPF programming, have talked about doing a conversion kit as well with cobrapin CPUs to possibly offer a kit to make the code deeper, and allow more options for these old cocktails. That is still up in the air, and a ways off.
    Would be cool to see these games have some depth, cool light shows, and better gameplay.
    That's all for now, and have a great weekend everyone. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    I think there was a guy on the board whom made an andrino based replacement for his Allied game, sadly for this platform I think that is going to be the future unless the LISY guys decide to tackle it.

    #614 61 days ago
    Quoted from vec-tor:

    *Also an EM version of the game.

    What's odd is how the EM still had digital scoring. That would make that possibly one of the first?
    Even crazier is how long the timers can be set to turn off opponents flippers. From 2 seconds to 180 seconds

    #615 61 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I think there was a guy on the board whom made an andrino based replacement for his Allied game, sadly for this platform I think that is going to be the future unless the LISY guys decide to tackle it.

    That would be a good start, but the fast, or cobrapin have more dedicated pinball setups, and would be an easier, and more robust install for that many coils in such a small game.

    20240517_165134 (resized).jpg20240517_165134 (resized).jpg
    #616 61 days ago

    Well the post was originally about a reproduction board for the Allied games. John convinced many of us to get on board and help finance the deal and he lied to all of us and nothing is going to come of it and we are pissed and have a right to be. Anyone that didn't send money can't complain about those that did being upset.

    #617 61 days ago
    Quoted from rstrunks:

    Well the post was originally about a reproduction board for the Allied games. John convinced many of us to get on board and help finance the deal and he lied to all of us and nothing is going to come of it and we are pissed and have a right to be. Anyone that didn't send money can't complain about those that did being upset.

    He merely asked about starting another thread about constructive work being done to move this problem forward and bring some of these games back to life.

    Unless there's a post i can't see, it seems that you are out of line and reading things that aren't there into it.

    No one's trying to take your outrage away from you.

    -1
    #618 61 days ago

    Punkin you and I are in a different boat it seems. You got a refund and I didn't so you don't have any skin in the game anymore so of course all is well with you
    although i am sure if you were still out your investment you would have a different opinion. Thank you for your input though.

    #619 60 days ago
    Quoted from rstrunks:

    Punkin you and I are in a different boat it seems. You got a refund and I didn't so you don't have any skin in the game anymore so of course all is well with you
    although i am sure if you were still out your investment you would have a different opinion. Thank you for your input though.

    I didn't get my money, or parts back either, so I'll ask again, if you guys want to spend this topic on a rant, do I need to start another thread so we can move forward with getting these games working? God forbid we find another solution instead of listening to rants on how everyone is butthurt over something we obviously cant fix?

    #620 60 days ago

    Better yet, I'll just go do my own thing, work on getting these going, and the rest of you are free to do what you want, and go your own way.
    No point in forcing anyone to move on, or finding other options. Good luck to you all, and hope you all find a way to get your machines running.

    #621 60 days ago

    Mr. Bigg my rant is over. Pissed yes but not the first time I have been taken in this hobby but will be the last. I am definitely willing to consider other options. It was not my intention to derail you and any ideas you may have. I apologize to you if it seemed I was getting on to you.

    #622 60 days ago
    Quoted from rstrunks:

    Mr. Bigg my rant is over. Pissed yes but not the first time I have been taken in this hobby but will be the last. I am definitely willing to consider other options. It was not my intention to derail you and any ideas you may have. I apologize to you if it seemed I was getting on to you.

    Now you get it.

    It's about moving forward. Matters not whether i got a refund, it matters that i still want to see this move forward.

    Would i like to see everyone get a refund?
    Yes.
    Am i working behind the scenes and in this thread to try to help that effort?
    Yes.
    Do i think it's constructive to stop others from trying to find solutions because the first one didn't work?
    No.

    Quoted from MrBigg:

    Better yet, I'll just go do my own thing, work on getting these going, and the rest of you are free to do what you want, and go your own way.
    No point in forcing anyone to move on, or finding other options. Good luck to you all, and hope you all find a way to get your machines running.

    Please don't let one persons attitude put you off mate. The pinball world needs to keep these machines alive, they are damn fun.

    #623 60 days ago

    All good points Punkin. He got me all pissed and I am not usually like that. We don't need to let the bad eggs mess it up for the rest of us. Hopefully a way forward can be found to get them running again.

    #624 60 days ago
    Quoted from rstrunks:

    All good points Punkin. He got me all pissed and I am not usually like that. We don't need to let the bad eggs mess it up for the rest of us. Hopefully a way forward can be found to get them running again.

    Cool as mate, downvote removed and back to looking out for each other.

    #625 59 days ago

    Well if we're routing this back to a topic of getting these games working I'd like to put up my process in how I got my machine working mostly original. My problem was different than what most people experience and my chips weren't bad but something odd was happening. My reset didn't run and the game wouldn't start play but it functioned properly until you credit. The game would just freeze on credit. Schematics made it pretty easy to figure out where on the board it was failing but nothing well indicating how it was failing. In the end it was weak/fluctuating signals & voltages.

    I started with the obvious potential problem and replaced the caps and bridge rectifiers. One of my rectifiers was for sure bad. I swapped out the power for a switching supply just so I didn't have to worry about that in future. From there I started to trace signals and reflowed all of the chips and spots that were along the reset logic. The traces on these boards are super thin and barely send a signal as is. I had to bridge a few with jumpers because the signal was so weak it wasn't making it to the chips. They were connected but faint. I also had to reflow some of the jumpers because the signal wasn't making it through. Those you have to be super careful with.

    I also noticed that even though my connectors were tight, some of the pins weren't making full contact. Do continuity traces and check your throughput and resistance. Use some electrical cleaner in there too with a little brush or something to clean out any gunk. These boards obviously don't work if they don't get a full signal. Reflow the connector points and maybe re-pin a few if the trace seems weak. Just to be safe I used a tiny screwdriver and readjusted the board connector sockets so they would fully grab the MPU. Some of them barely touched. All that together has kept this up and running. I wanted to buy one of the MPUs as a just in case but so far my fixes have kept this up and running for six months or so. I wish we had a better permanent solution though.

    #626 56 days ago
    Quoted from rstrunks:

    Punkin you and I are in a different boat it seems. You got a refund and I didn't so you don't have any skin in the game anymore so of course all is well with you
    although i am sure if you were still out your investment you would have a different opinion. Thank you for your input though.

    This is a poor take on a good guy - I didn't get my money back either; but if $350 is enough to make you act out then maybe don't sends hundreds to a largely anonymous guy in another country on a whim.

    Getting back to Allied - I only had one cause I had a customer drop it for repairs, then decide not to pick it up after we talked through how difficult/expensive this would be. Since it's sat in my garage for 3 years and I'm now out more than he paid I told him to come get it or I was posting it for $100 locally. Either way - it's out of my garage and made room for another pin to actually get repaired.

    I do hope this thread (or a new one) continues to explore and find a solution... The games are kinda neat and I'd really like to have an option to help preserve them going forward.

    #627 56 days ago

    Hey everyone, I recently picked one of these up and it's currently totally working, but I am considering trying to operate it and I worry about how long that will last, especially as I'm trying to figure out how to replace one of the flipper buttons and not getting much info on that even.

    I saw that Flippers.com has backup boards with rebuilt components. Is this the main thing that can go wrong with these, thus this thread, or are there other things that can go wrong with them? I want to know what I'm getting myself into if I put it out and if it can be repaired if stuff goes bad on it. If there is a better thread for this, please tell me where to go.

    Thanks!

    #628 56 days ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    Hey everyone, I recently picked one of these up and it's currently totally working, but I am considering trying to operate it and I worry about how long that will last, especially as I'm trying to figure out how to replace one of the flipper buttons and not getting much info on that even.
    I saw that Flippers.com has backup boards with rebuilt components. Is this the main thing that can go wrong with these, thus this thread, or are there other things that can go wrong with them? I want to know what I'm getting myself into if I put it out and if it can be repaired if stuff goes bad on it. If there is a better thread for this, please tell me where to go.
    Thanks!

    Not a very robust game to route. Main issues I find are the unique plastic drop targets and the plastic flipper pawl. I 3D print both of these so they are available to purchase.

    As for the electronics usual issues are the 5V power supply fan going bad, old cap on the MPU board or at the bridges. Non-booting games have mostly been a few chips/transistors in the reset section of the board rather than the 6530 chips, but have see a couple bad ones.

    #629 56 days ago
    Quoted from statictrance:

    This is a poor take on a good guy - I didn't get my money back either; but if $350 is enough to make you act out then maybe don't sends hundreds to a largely anonymous guy in another country on a whim.
    Getting back to Allied - I only had one cause I had a customer drop it for repairs, then decide not to pick it up after we talked through how difficult/expensive this would be. Since it's sat in my garage for 3 years and I'm now out more than he paid I told him to come get it or I was posting it for $100 locally. Either way - it's out of my garage and made room for another pin to actually get repaired.
    I do hope this thread (or a new one) continues to explore and find a solution... The games are kinda neat and I'd really like to have an option to help preserve them going forward.

    Was this game missing the MPU entirely? I've had good luck repairing the original board if he wants to contact me about sending it my way.

    #630 55 days ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    Hey everyone, I recently picked one of these up and it's currently totally working, but I am considering trying to operate it and I worry about how long that will last, especially as I'm trying to figure out how to replace one of the flipper buttons and not getting much info on that even.
    I saw that Flippers.com has backup boards with rebuilt components. Is this the main thing that can go wrong with these, thus this thread, or are there other things that can go wrong with them? I want to know what I'm getting myself into if I put it out and if it can be repaired if stuff goes bad on it. If there is a better thread for this, please tell me where to go.
    Thanks!

    The electronics are generally fine...just replace the old caps, and if the voltage is dipping too low, replace the worn out 5v regulator.

    Since I was bringing the game to shows, as a precaution, I ended up installing protection diodes on my early version gen2 MPU's switch inputs to help protect the irreplaceable chips. However, that was delicate work, and not everyone is going to have the patience/skill for it. The other option would've been custom PCB boards with edge connectors to go between the board and the harness connectors. https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/ALI/Fascination_Repair#Unprotected_MPU_Inputs

    All the plastic parts are the weak spot. The link on the drop target plungers, the drop targets, the plastic flipper parts....

    The only place to get replacements are either parts games, flippers.com, or possibly resorting to 3D printing.

    After having two allied leisure games and seeing the number of available parts dwindle to nothing over that time, I called it quits on allied leisure titles. Those games were interesting to work on, but I had no interest in getting stuck with one longer than I had to.

    Not many people other than flippers.com has taken a serious interest in putting out replacement parts. But they kept saying replacement parts will be available soon, and years went by without too much appearing. So, I couldn't rely on that as a source.

    So, I wouldn't recommend routing because of the issue of plastic parts availability. But if you have a stash of spares or have a way to produce them, then I'd say go ahead and route it as long as the parts stash holds up.

    #631 55 days ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Not many people other than flippers.com has taken a serious interest in putting out replacement parts. But they kept saying replacement parts will be available soon, and years went by without too much appearing. So, I couldn't rely on that as a source.
    So, I wouldn't recommend routing because of the issue of plastic parts availability. But if you have a stash of spares or have a way to produce them, then I'd say go ahead and route it as long as the parts stash holds up.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/176113
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    2 weeks later
    #632 38 days ago

    Can we finally list AzureOz on the scam game seller list ? I mean its been long enough to reach that pretty definitive conclusion hasn't it ? Just don't want to see anyone else get taken by this guy.

    #633 37 days ago

    Think that was my last azure post im gonna endure. Im draining and moving on guys. Good luck all.
    If i get to a point, ill start a new thread, and we can move on to something with some positivity

    #634 36 days ago
    Quoted from MrBigg:

    Think that was my last azure post im gonna endure. Im draining and moving on guys. Good luck all.
    If i get to a point, ill start a new thread, and we can move on to something with some positivity

    The last two years of this thread have been a guy who showed substantial progress in redesigning, prototyping, and then as of over a year ago supposedly manufacturing a board set. Alot of us gave him money when he started taking orders. Then nothing.

    If you are so fragile that the mere negative mention of his name by anyone is repellent to you, then you did the right thing in draining this thread. What you are asking for here is like being part of a thread on Magic Girl and then saying you are tired of hearing negative things about JPOP and lets all move on. Different scale of course, but same concept.

    Agree with you fully that if you actually proceed with some new designs, start another thread, so the detritus of this one gets left behind.

    BTW announcing you are draining a thread rather than just doing so is usually cause for a mod demerit. Ask me how I know.

    #635 32 days ago

    I don't know how it works in Australia. I'd like to sue the guy. In the US its not worth it. We need to smear the guy's business, somehow. He needs to take out a loan and repay us. That's what I would do, but I have a sense of honor.

    #636 32 days ago
    Quoted from mamawaldee:

    I don't know how it works in Australia. I'd like to sue the guy. In the US its not worth it. We need to smear the guy's business, somehow. He needs to take out a loan and repay us. That's what I would do, but I have a sense of honor.

    Integrity is a quality most profess to have, and yet when adverse circumstances arise usually a large majority fail to manifest. Its an odd quality because we usually demand of it of others in their interactions with us and yet most seemingly have no personal existential crisis when its pointed out that we ourselves are not reciprocating. At that point self-defense mechanisms, devolving into many 'whatabbout"-isms kick into high gear. Personal accountability has been in precipitous decline for a while now.

    The only thing I can do moving forward is avoid situations where I get to monetarily test whether the professed integrity is real or not. And the reason to avoid these monetary tests is because I can be sure I will lose in most instances. Thats a sad statement on humanity, but I've been burned too many times by "honest" people to come to some other conclusion.

    Lesson learned, never ever ever give people money until the package is ready to ship tomorrow and I have recourse to keep them honest if it does not. Most people are too sketchy to do otherwise.

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