(Topic ID: 223912)

New Allied Leisure MPU


By daddy

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 69 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 41 days ago by sndchaser
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 8 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    17C4CD96-1233-42E9-BFA5-5660EFCDF4CF (resized).jpeg
    D707A983-5539-494B-B182-19F0A7FD878D (resized).jpeg
    38FE83C1-25E1-407B-8232-A56390B98288 (resized).jpeg
    crank (resized).jpg
    IMG_0413 (resized).JPG
    IMG_0415 (resized).JPG
    IMG_0414 (resized).JPG
    IMG_0416 (resized).JPG

    There are 69 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 9 months ago

    I saw within a thread where someone had mentioned that a pinball company was looking at making new Allied Leisure MPUs. Now I cannot find it. If someone could find this information for me I would appreciate it. Thank you

    #2 9 months ago

    flippers.com, but I don't think they are anywhere near ready yet.

    1 month later
    #3 8 months ago

    I'd do it if I could get a clean copy of the schematic of the old MPU. Been looking for it and have been too lazy to move forward without it.

    #4 8 months ago
    Quoted from sndchaser:

    I'd do it if I could get a clean copy of the schematic of the old MPU. Been looking for it and have been too lazy to move forward without it.

    I believe the Allied Leisure MPU uses a number of IC chips that are no longer available. The remaining stock of the chips, if you can find them, were $75 each if my recollection is accurate. That was about 14 years ago.

    #5 8 months ago

    Well, it would be silly to make a new MPU board that uses obsolete ICs... That's why I'd redesign it with modern, available parts, and re-write the firmware. My only problem is the IPDB schematic is illegible, so I can't read the pinouts for the connectors or see what the current MPU is doing.

    #6 8 months ago

    As I recall, the 40 pin chips all contain firmware. So, a complete re-write would be necessary.

    However, I am pretty sure every single game uses the exact same program. All they did was move things around and add or eliminate extra targets and bumpers. Including the Fascination title(s).

    Also, it seems hard to justify for games that only sell for $150-$450.

    #7 8 months ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    Also, it seems hard to justify for games that only sell for $150-$450.

    Keep in mind that several of the full size games also used the same MPU, and not just the cocktail pins.

    #8 8 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Keep in mind that several of the full size games also used the same MPU, and not just the cocktail pins.

    looks like they did 2-3 uprights that used the cocktail board set. Getaway, Hoe Down, and Roy Clark Super Picker (same game as Hoe Down). Never seen any of these or knew they existed. The more common DynoMite/Boogie/TNT/Rock-On upright that I have seen a couple of times uses a different NON-processor based solid state board set. Their other weird upright "pins" were earlier EM shakerball games.

    #9 8 months ago

    It should be pretty easy to make a new MPU for this. The annoying part would be matching the connectors up as they are spread out along the bottom and the right side of the very large board and keeping the replacement board the same side would add unnecessary cost. The game rules were pretty basic and the same ROM was used in every game as someone else mentioned.

    As for the outputs it looks to be 30 switches (non matrix) 24 lamps (non matrix) 24 coil transistors and the low voltage LED 7 digits (2 player and 4 player adjustable.) I think some of the displays use a 7 digit LED for ball in play and some use separate LED ball balls 1-5

    Some later games had electronic tone cards but I believe those were just driven by the 3 chime transistors.

    #10 8 months ago

    I don't think there's much going on so it shouldn't be complicated or expensive. There's not even a switch matrix. I have a plan for reducing the board size while still accommodating the original connectors. So... Anyone want to help me out with a good clean schematic?

    #11 8 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Keep in mind that several of the full size games also used the same MPU, and not just the cocktail pins.

    And sadly, I can imagine I would even get $250 for my Hoe Down when the time comes to sell it. Hard to justify even $150 for a new board for any of these turds.

    -1
    #12 8 months ago

    On the plus side some of these turds outlived their shelf life by near 40 years. It's no sin to just let them die in peace.

    #13 8 months ago

    these games are so bad it makes me laugh .. alot

    #14 8 months ago

    If a person could rewrite the game rules and the new board uses modern components, then these old games could play better and be more fun.

    Also, things like attract mode light show, programmable replay scores, and much better diagnostics could be added. In fact, it would be nice if the diagnostics followed the classic Bally/Stern solid state steps.

    #15 8 months ago

    I happen to think these games would enjoy a whole new set of players and homeowners who ARE looking for a COCKTAIL table pinball....I dont see why they wouldnt sell in the %899 to %1199 range once shopped.

    #16 8 months ago

    Actually, this thread makes me think perhaps the best "project" for these cocktail games would be to design a new playfield with new electronics and integrated small LCD display to bring new life and purpose to them. Designed around one of the existing hardware sets so most of the groundwork is already completed.

    The cabinets are deep enough to even accommodate lower playfields like Electra or even Black Hole.

    There could be a decent market for such a conversion even allowing them to be operated on location again.

    Its even small enough to be offered in "Heathkit" form.

    #17 8 months ago
    Quoted from creepykenny:

    these games are so bad it makes me laugh .. alot

    Artwork on Thunderbolt reminds me of an ex. The body was the positive. The evilness was the negative...

    #18 8 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Artwork on Thunderbolt reminds me of an ex. The body was the positive. The evilness was the negative...

    which one? the one on the backglass or the playfield? the ever hot as hell playfield chick looks like she has a gap in the front toofs - at least on ipdb,
    and its usually the craycray that drives me away from that type

    #19 8 months ago

    I would be in for one. I'd like to see the machines continue to live, and any further bulletproofing would be a huge plus.

    #20 8 months ago
    Quoted from creepykenny:

    which one? the one on the backglass or the playfield? the ever hot as hell playfield chick looks like she has a gap in the front toofs - at least on ipdb,
    and its usually the craycray that drives me away from that type

    Playfield chick for the body. Both for the look on her face.

    #21 8 months ago

    The reason these games can be found so cheap is lack of parts. If boards are remade and reliable the demand will go up alot.
    I remember passing on system 1 pinballs for 50.00 that had bad or missing cpus prior ni wumpf availability.

    #22 8 months ago

    I have about 14 Allied Leisure cocktails. I collect cocktail pins (I have no idea why). Anyway, I would KILL for a board for these. A few of my units came with manuals, and I believe I have schematics with a few as well (I don't work on stuff, they catch fire..lol, a friend of mine helps me).

    They are all in Frederick, MD at Spinners Pinball. I would be glad to help in any way for someone to take on a project like this.

    IMG_0413 (resized).JPGIMG_0414 (resized).JPGIMG_0415 (resized).JPGIMG_0416 (resized).JPG
    #23 8 months ago

    I have been rewiring my upright hoe down piball machine.I am using 12vdc cube relays powered by a seperate power supply.I use the relays to switch the higher voltage to the coils.So far so good.I still have the original power supplys hooked up.Its quite simple figuring out what does what through the plugs going to the master control board.The knockdown targets I am just going to have them reset once they all get knocked down.I still have the large original board,if someone could use it to backwards engineer it I will donate it.I was told by the guy who rebuilds these boards that it is stuck in reset mode.I did not want to spend 450 plus shipping to canada.I only paid 80 dollars for the game.

    #24 8 months ago

    thunderbolt was actually a really fun game.

    #25 8 months ago
    Quoted from sndchaser:

    I don't think there's much going on so it shouldn't be complicated or expensive. There's not even a switch matrix. I have a plan for reducing the board size while still accommodating the original connectors. So... Anyone want to help me out with a good clean schematic?

    I have original large foldout schematics for this board. PM me and I'll work on getting them to you.

    #26 8 months ago
    Quoted from Eric_S:

    I believe the Allied Leisure MPU uses a number of IC chips that are no longer available. The remaining stock of the chips, if you can find them, were $75 each if my recollection is accurate. That was about 14 years ago.

    The last of the spider chips from Gottlieb sys 1 were also 75 a pop back then.

    #27 8 months ago

    I have lots of parts for Allied. Lots of MPU boards, the custom 6530's (tested/working). I have large original schematics too. Those scaled down copies are awful.

    I've parted out several playfields and have one working game left (Take Five).

    Let me know if anyone needs anything.

    My opinion on a replacement boardset is to just do away with the whole wiring arrangement and start over. Trying to stay compatible to the cabinet wiring - the 3 large 25 pin edge connectors plus the 3 oddball (NLA) AMP connectors for coils is just silly. Once a game is converted over there's not going to be any reason to go back to the factory MPU. If if were me, I'd make it compatible to the harness thats on the playfield (they were made to be easily swapped) and go from there. Or go with a playfield-mounted electronics (something like OPP's small boards http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/OPP or FAST's setup) to read switches and drive lamps directly. Backwards compatibility makes no sense once a replacement setup is installed. The biggest pain is that the lamps and switches both are non matrixed. Lots of I/O. Then again, the playfields are small and simple.

    #28 8 months ago
    Quoted from jeffmd72:

    I have original large foldout schematics for this board. PM me and I'll work on getting them to you.

    Send to me too please!

    #29 8 months ago

    Oh my! This "idea" is morphing into a catastrophe! It would appear that there are enough MPU's to go around and that only the main chip(s) is/are Unobtainium (Unless you are CoreyStup LOL). If the rest of the board is populated with 6520's (which are simply 6821 PIAs) as the interfacing to the outside world, then the most sensible approach, IMO, is to simply make a piggy back MPU to go in place of one or two of the main chips to access the Address and Data buses. Thereby reusing the rest of the board as is.

    While it could be done with a $2 Microcontroller and some support hardware, others out there would probably want to use a Raspberry Pi or some similar variant with enough processing power to launch the cocktail to the moon!

    Sadly, not every game deserves saving. And most of these games rank barely above the Bally Home games as far as value or collectibility go.

    #30 8 months ago

    cactusjack I'll haul all your Allied "turds" away for you free of charge (and use them to test the new MPU I make). PM me.

    #31 8 months ago

    sndchaser, fortunately, I only own one. A Hoe down. Which has probably got to be highest on that heap! (or should I say lowest??? LOL). I can't even remember how I got it. Probably in some batch deal. If and when I ever dig it out of Storage, I will reach out to you. Back in the 80's, I did have a roommate that had a Eros One for a while. It was okay for a cocktail but still greatly lacking any "another game" appeal.

    What I do remember is the very poor design plastic flipper crank and parts. I can only guess that the flippers have to be retro-fitted with a more contemporary design as even John is sold out of the part:

    crank (resized).jpg
    #32 8 months ago

    The lamp driver IC's are long obsolete and do fail. 75492's, I think - I can't remember.

    The reset circuitry is not great. I usually install a Dallas/Maxim reset IC to upgrade it.

    A plug in CPU socket module could be developed but the overall board quality isn't great so you're then stuck with that. Especially the early "E" series boards, the "H" series are better. 2 of the 3 mask programmed 6530's are also used as I/O, so those would need to have an adapter made for those as well (likely adapting to a 6821 and then driving accordingly in the new CPU software).

    If I'm rewriting the software I'd just as soon have better hardware and boards to run it on...

    #33 8 months ago

    I think it's silly when I see "new" MPU boards with 1970's processors and PIAs. If you're going to spend the time to lay out a board, might as well use present technology. Using a modern MCU would greatly reduce the complexity and cost of a new board. Particularly on something like this that doesn't use game ROMs.

    #34 8 months ago

    But it does use game roms. They are just contained inside the 6530s. The good news is only one set of game rules has to be written to support many titles.

    In the case of those new MPUs using 70s technology, that is so the boards can run multiple titles of multiple generations and manufacturers of software. It would be a major task to first rewrite a new operating system and then go through and write a rule set for each title. Such as was done for Gottlieb Sys 1s. In the case of Bally/Stern MPUs, all the support chips are still readily available in reasonable quantities. In the case of Sys 1, the entire chip set was long gone. So there was no other option. As is the case here.

    It certainly would have to be a labor of love as I see no financial success for such an undertaking.

    #35 8 months ago

    It doesn't use game ROMs. Game ROMs would best be defined as game specific scoring and logic ROMs. Your other brand of pinball MPUs have other ROMs in addition to the game ROMs with generic firmware (i.e. Williams "Flipper ROM", System 1 spider chips, etc). The 6530's contain the equivalent of the system firmware, plus set of a fixed rule/scoring data, presumably all intertwined across several chips.

    Re: other MPUs. It's not rocket science to write new operating system firmware that can read and use the formatted contents of older Game ROMs (even the Gottlieb System 1). And my comment about the no game ROMs on Allied was to make a point that Allied is simpler because you don't even need to worry about the scoring/rule set differences from game to game.

    The more you tell me it's a foolish undertaking the more I want to do it. It's a hobby, not a business.

    #36 8 months ago

    I love old electronics so I've been following this. Might I suggest:

    1) Spin up new PCB with compatible connectors.
    2) Duplicate the massive amounts of non matrixed IO with shift registers on a SPI bus.
    3) Ditch the Dino turd chips and drive it with a bog standard Arduino.

    #37 8 months ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    I love old electronics so I've been following this. Might I suggest:
    1) Spin up new PCB with compatible connectors.
    2) Duplicate the massive amounts of non matrixed IO with shift registers on a SPI bus.
    3) Ditch the Dino turd chips and drive it with a bog standard Arduino.

    Where is the fun in that? Allied Leisure games make you appreciate them because after you turn them off, you have no idea if they'll ever work again.

    #38 8 months ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    1) Spin up new PCB with compatible connectors.

    That's what I did for the Van Halen machine. It was more to prove I could switch from Bally to OPP with no wiring changes. If I wasn't proving that out, I would do what I originally did for SharpeShooter 3 which was to rewire the whole thing. With the new boards and placing them under the playfield, you can get rid of 2/3 of the wires. It just makes for a much cleaner and easier to debug bottom of the playfield. After trying it both ways, I prefer the rewiring at this point.

    #39 8 months ago

    Since I don't think everyone would be willing/able to rewire, what I'm thinking is a card edge to a 0.100"/0.156" adapter, a PCB that can plug into the existing card edge connectors of the wiring harness, and bring those up to my new smaller board. Personally I would re-pin the old wires and take them directly to the new board (which would be an easy option with this design), but I think it needs to be able to be as close to plug and play as possible.

    #40 8 months ago

    What pins are needed for repinning?

    #41 8 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    What pins are needed for repinning?

    i think its the original AMP snap-lok line. The housings and pins still exist but the PC mount receptacle is probably NLA.

    So, either the header needs to be harvested from an old board, or a dangling mating connector can go to a standard header (like 0.156").

    The edge connector is easily recreated on the new board. The idea of a breakout board or adapting to ribbon cable for low current items sounds like a good idea.

    No one wants to have to crimp 100 plus pins just to connect to a new board design.

    1 week later
    #42 8 months ago

    Has anyone started this yet? I am definitely interested.

    #43 8 months ago
    Quoted from Eric_S:

    Where is the fun in that? Allied Leisure games make you appreciate them because after you turn them off, you have no idea if they'll ever work again.

    That's what Happened to mine, I bought it as a working game enjoyed for a few weeks then one day no more workie. I ended up trading it, the new owner did get it going again, but it took some time and a lot of knowledgeable people and who know what parts to get it back to life.

    #44 8 months ago
    Quoted from daddy:

    Has anyone started this yet? I am definitely interested.

    There were a couple of people with schematics so I was hoping one of them could send me a copy before I got underway.

    1 week later
    #45 7 months ago

    I also would want a board for my 1978 hoe down upright.I do have it working without the board in it,but i have not figured out how to hack into the led displays so it can keep score.I still have the big Board,the 3 leds on the drive board
    would light up but that was it.The last led was supposed to blink occasionally,I could not figure it out and gave up.

    3 weeks later
    #46 7 months ago

    I hope this gets started.

    #47 7 months ago
    Quoted from sndchaser:

    There were a couple of people with schematics so I was hoping one of them could send me a copy before I got underway.

    Did you ever get any? I have a complete full size set I will send you if not.

    #48 7 months ago

    My ALI Boogie is a really fun game. And has the loudest chimes evar.

    #49 7 months ago

    Nope, no schematics yet, would definitely appreciate your help getting a copy.

    3 weeks later
    #50 6 months ago

    Anybody working on this yet? I am very interested.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 200.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 159.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 7.49
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 239.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Tilttopper
    $ 49.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Chrome Candy
    $ 35.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Bright Lights Pinball
    $ 39.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 6.00
    Electronics
    German-Pinball-Modular
    From: $ 40.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 8,999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 28.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 7,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Batman 66 Premium Out of stock
    Operation Pinball
    $ 3.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Doc's Pinball Shop
    € 4.20
    Flipper Parts
    Buthamburg
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 29.99
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Nitro Pinball Shop
    $ 5.00
    $ 76.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    There are 69 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside